tomsteve

gotta say again:
why didnt you ever try drinking like a gentleman?

tomsteve

and what does drinking like a gentleman involve?

gen·tle·man
1. A man of gentle or noble birth or superior social position.
2. A well-mannered and considerate man with high standards of proper behavior.
3. A man of independent means who does not need to have a wage-paying job

looked up a few definitions of the word and havent seen any that say,"drinks alcohol."

Hollyanne

Antinomies,
I am wondering what you think a glass or two of wine might do in the light of a serious history of depression and possible diagnosis of Bipolar 2?
From that standpoint alone, it would be high risk, no?
If you are in a funk at the moment, perhaps a few sessions with a counsellor would be a good idea.
The saying, "If you are controlling it,
you are not enjoying it,
and if you are enjoying it, you are not controlling it"
comes to mind.
Someone above has asked a good question, why did you NOT try and drink like a gentleman before?
Are you depressed now?
Sounds like something is missing.
I doubt it's drink.

antinomies

To be honest, I never even thought of drinking like a gentleman. The thought never even occurred to me. I just drank to get loaded like everyone else I knew.

No, I am not depressed right now. I see a counselor already.

I agree that drinking can mess with bipolar but it is not necessarily so.

Here's an analogy that might explain my thinking. (And I don't mean to be offensive to Catholics.) I used to go to the Catholic Church very seriously: confession, mass, days of obligation, the whole 9 yards. Then one day I read about the immaculate conception of Mary and the assumption of Mary and how catholics HAD TO BELIEVE THIS DOGMA. I immediately left the Catholic Church.

I am beginning to feel the same way about AA. I just don't believe the diease theory and don't believe I am a real alcoholic. For some reason I've been blind all these years to the definition of a real alcoholic/chronic alcoholic. As pathetic as this sounds, and it is going to sound really pathetic, I think I needed AA because I had no friends and no social life. I wanted to belong, I needed to belong, I had to belong. And now, 13 years later I see that I was probably wrong about calling myself an alcoholic all these years. I don't regret being in AA at all, in fact I am very thankful for it. I just think my way of thinking, and AA's way of thinking has parted company...but really what do I know, right? I am a crazy bipolar guy writing to a bunch of strangers :-)

Hollyanne

But can't you just leave AA for a while?
As for the Catholic thing, I was raised Catholic.
I make jokes about being "a recovering Catholic".
I see the massive flaws in the faith as human flaws.
The same with AA.
Someone here posted about not being able to have a conversation in AA without a bunch of slogans being flung around.
Oh holy smokes! I agree with that!
Can't I just talk????
Can't we just have a regular conversation?
I have found myself alienated from the normal world and spend all my time at work or with AA people. I have had more than a handful of people in AA go wacko on me.
As I question AA, it is the "fellowship" that I question, not the program itself.
I am going to finish the steps with my sponsor, and see what happens after that re AA.
But, I am not thinking I can drink again.
That ship has sailed.
Can't risk it.
And, if I become obsessed with alcohol and the ability to drink again, that just proves it is still unsafe.
Catch 22, mmmmmmm.

awuh1

I can't wait to hear how the "experiment" turns out. When are you going to test it? Seems like you have made up your mind and that nothing anyone says here is going to change it. You should know a week or so after your first drink (or perhaps as soon as a few hours). Till then I'll wait for a new thread to see the outcome. This one seems to be going in circles.

Hollyanne

What does the counselor say?
Are you on meds?
What do you do for fun?
Do you sleep well?
Do you live alone? Have pets?
Are you in contact with family/friends?
Yea, a lot of questions, I know. Just curious, why do you see drink as some badge of normalcy?
I have an aunt and uncle who are teetotalers. They wear Pioneer pins, neat!
I haven't a pin, but I might get one for the laugh. Sorry, bold, cheeky.

antinomies

He thinks alcoholic label is weird

Zero meds--fish oil, vitamins, exercise instead

Lots of stuff

Sleep is okay to lame.

Family is fine, thanks for asking.

I think it would be nice to know the truth--whether I can take a drink or not; to know the truth. Wine with dinner seems cool.

Hollyanne

Well,
I have to go to bed now.
Why not say to yourself, The fourth of July, BBQ, etc, you can have a glass of wine or a cold beer.
If you don't get arrested or end up in a psych ward by Christmas or fired, you are golden??????!!!!
You will not find anyone on here that will joyfully tell you "Go for it", unless..........
a peeved ex figures out who you are and tries to sabotage you.
Goodnight, stay in touch. But don't flog the dead horse too much or people will get annoyed and be mean and make you feel bad and then you might say,"I will show them!!!!" and all of the above might happen.
And, that would be unfortunate.
:horse

Dee74

Hi antinomies

To me the best place to get an AA perspective is the 12 step forum

I'm sorry that some here have questioned your motives, but I'm sure you can understand how easily this topic can rile people up.

Neverthess I have removed some posts by others here for Artsoul to look at.

Going back to your original post - the only thing I can add is - it's not just AA real alcoholics who are at risk....I've known many problem drinkers and binge drinkers whose drinking killed them, nearly killed them, or otherwise destroyed their lives. I'm one of them.

btw...my perspective isn't one that's based on fear or scaring people straight - it's just my story

I find it odd you've never tried to drink like a gentleman before - that was one of the first things I tried to do - but I wish you well, if that's the road you take.

I hope it works out.
If not, the door here swings both ways

D

tomsteve

hopefully you can drink like a normal drinker.
please come back in 6 months and tell us how its workin for ya.

Joe Nerv

Ahh... so them there big book thumpers thumped ya right out the door then. You were fine before you heard any of the "real" alcoholic definitions.

I can totally empathise and sympathise with what you're saying... nobody knows how you drank. Only you. If you think you can do it safely, you might be right. The cards are stacked against you, as people don't usually land in AA if they don't have a problem, BUT, I'm sure it happens.

Allz I can say is if you're drinking because you want to get drunk, or you're drinking because you want the buzz or the feeling that alcohol gives you - you're looking for trouble. If when you WERE drinking you had no problem leaving a half a glass of wine or other drink behinde... then who knows.

No matter how I twist this for myself, I can't imagine a happy life anymore with alcohol. I have no desire to drink like a normal non alcoholic person - I mean, what's the point? And if I did drink I'd only want to do so for it's affects. Which I'm certain would land me in trouble again. You might feel differently. Just know that with many people once you cross the line there might be a very very steep price to pay.

And I disagree with whoever said you'll know quickly. I think it will take a while, as most people attempting your experiment really want to prove to themselves that it can be done. I'm pretty certain I could have a drink or 2 and get away with it. I'm even more certain though that eventually I'd lose the game. No desire to play that game, nothing in it for me as I've already stated.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

yeahgr8

I would look back to see if your previous drinking gave you or anyone else cause for concern and whether you suffered any consequences from drinking. If you did then it is probably not a good idea to go back and stick your hand in the fire again and i doubt anyone in the real world who cared about you would be enthusiastic about you returning to drinking in any capacity.

I find it highly unlikely that you ended up in AA 13 years ago for the hell of it, or did you?

Whatever you decide to do i'll support you either way because as you have said i am a stranger and not even in a physical sense so it is a good idea to check your thinking with a few people actually in your life who have known you for the last 13 plus years.

miamifella

Okay confession. I had a sip of champagne for a few New Years Eves (never the whole glass) and about 5 glasses of scotch over the course of a year.

Never wanted to do any more.

But I suffer from depression and I am an addict. So I decided to never to drink again. I left 12-step programs and still I do not drink or use.

It seems like lots of issues are being lumped together. But they really are different matters.

Threshold

If you want to be free of toxic labels and negative thinking, which makes sense to me, then do so. If that means bowing out of AA, OK, but really, drinking just so you can prove something to...who?

You don't need to throw out sobriety with the labels.

And what if you ARE an alcoholic?

I don't care what labels you use or don't use, but I think drinking to prove you are not an alcoholic is misguided.

Threshold

This thread has been on my mind all day and I think I know why. Because I identify with it. It wouldn't have gotten under my skin unless there was something in the subject matter that hits close to home.

And what came to me (and I did bring this up earlier) is why, after all this time, drinking important.

I know if after 13 years seperated from an ex with whom I had an abusive tumultuous relationship, it occured to me to call them up and see what's going on with them...there would be something going on inside ME that would cause me to do that.

It wouldn't be random or meaningless. I've done some things on that order and I often had some blithe or logical reasoning that looked all kinds of harmless on the surface, but down below other things were stewing.

SO, I am NOT suggesting this is true for the OP who has clearly stated his motives, but I know for me to do this kind of thing there would be something very troubled inside of me, and that is the WORST time for me to be testing my sobriety with booze or any of my other addictions.

So, thanks OP for helping me realize this about myself.

Grungehead

Well I guess it's time for me to add my experience as I have on a bunch of other threads. Just something to think about for the OP or anyone else. I'll try to keep it short.

7 years sober. Left AA after 5 years, back drinking 2 years later. Stayed out a year and things got worse than before.

Came back to AA with my tail between my legs and stayed sober 7 more years. Left AA after about 5 years again. Got hooked on pills a year later after heart surgery and started drinking again a year after that. Stayed out a total of 8 years. Things got real bad this time.

I will admit I was around AA more than I was in it. I had a good sponsor both times but I didn't utilize either one. That's probably why I eventually left each time, I wasn't willing to follow directions. The first time I tried some controlled drinking and it didn't work. The 2nd time I had no illusions of controlled drinking. I was just so miserable I didn't care.

I just thank God he's given me another chance. Hopefully I will learn from the past and walk the walk this time instead of just talking the talk. If you test the waters again I really hope it works for you. It's been my experience though that my disease was progressing and waiting for me all of those years I was sober, and each time it got worse as soon as I went back out. Like my avatar says...instant idiot just add alcohol, just like it's always been with me and alcohol.

soberlicious

That goes for those in the fellowship and those not in the fellowship.

what has this got to do with drinking?

I agree. I think it's totally weird. But again...what's that got to do with drinking?

Dude, you sure think about drinking alot. Far more than the average "gentlemen drinker" ever would.

Michael66

To be fair to antinomies - if his thoughts are right, then his musing on alcohol now could be a result of being in AA for the wrong reason. Antinomies is obviously considering whether his earlier binge drinking could be a result of youthful excesses. Certainly I know people who drank more than me as a student (I rarely got drunk, and never had a black-out, was never arrested, and it never interfered with my studies) but later their drinking moderated while mine, over the years, slowly but surely increased. The wilder people from my youth settled down, while my own reliance on alcohol inexorably increased.

I think anyone who has spent 13 years in AA is going to be thinking about alcohol a fair amount - that is obviously the focus of the group. The question is obviously whether antinomies should be there or not. If he doesn't know than I suspect we're not going to know any better, though at least a few of us do know the dangers of thinking our drinking has been "fixed" by a period of abstinence. In antinomies's case it doesn't seem to be about whether abstinence has fixed the problem (we probably all agree that alcohol doesn't work in that way), but whether he's simply grown up and matured so that his relationship with alcohol will be different. That seems possible and reasonable, though still somewhat risky to test.

I also tend to think sobriety and abstinence are really good anyway and that a large number of people who are not alcoholics would find their lives and their relationships better without alcohol, but I guess that's a different topic.

soberlicious

Well certainly his thoughts regarding drinking like a gentleman could be valid , but if we are looking at possible vs. likely...well, I certainly think it's possible that he has outgrown his binge drinking, but I do not think it's likely.

I did exactly what antinomies is doing right now, except it was after 10 years of abstinence. I quit in my early 20's. I was not in AA, but I used the same "I'm pretty sure I've matured" /"not sure there was ever a problem to begin with"/"I was just young" argument. My experiment failed within 2 weeks, but I continued to drink daily for 7 years. I was 40 when I was baker acted and quit for the last time.

This is not about maturity, nor is it about abstinent time. But I had to learn it for myself, just as apparently antinomies has decided he must as well. I just wish it wasn't so.