thinking of leaving AA
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by antinomies 
I have believed unquestioningly in AA for 13 years, and now I doubt a fair amount of the program, specifically the disease concept, and also the entire choose own higher power idea which seems idolatrous to me...too much reading of orange papers :-)
It's not a disease like cancer or MS, in my thinking. It's like knowing you are lactose intolerant. Drink milk, get violent diarrhea, or nausea, or gas, whatever. Whether now or in 15 years, your body doesn't make the enzymes to deal w/dairy. aa helps people deal with the behavioral issues and personal growth and healing.The alcoholics' enzyme deficiency remains.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Deciding to leave AA and deciding to drink again are two entirely different things. They do not go hand in hand. I agree with miamifella, leave AA if you wish, but why drink?
Drinking is not at all important in life...but it seems to be pretty important to you right now. That's curious, don't you think? You might think *you* are reasoning all this out and it makes perfect sense, but really it looks to me like you are handing the wheel over to your addiction. I would say enjoy the ride, except that it's extremely likely that you won't.
For what it's worth, I never attend AA, and I never drink.
Drinking is not at all important in life...but it seems to be pretty important to you right now. That's curious, don't you think? You might think *you* are reasoning all this out and it makes perfect sense, but really it looks to me like you are handing the wheel over to your addiction. I would say enjoy the ride, except that it's extremely likely that you won't.
For what it's worth, I never attend AA, and I never drink.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,031
Hiiii and welcome I'm 99 days and hear a lot of people going back out and it's slow to start with then by 6mths to a year they are 10 times worse just remember this disease is very patient . Why can't we just live how god intended I ask myself all the time this scares me reading your post are your feelings screaming out at you ??? Try and work out what you are really missing you have come so far I admire you do you meditate mayb pray have you lost faith are you ok please take care cause there's only one of you and you are worth you must have thought you were to have been so brave and an inspiration to people like me take care xxxxxx
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,031
Originally Posted by CupofJoe
Hello. 
I just wanted to pipe in and add some thoughts.
I don't know if you're an alcoholic or not and if you drink or not is entirely up to you. But some questions did pop up in my head.
Do you know why you never tried any controlled gentlemanly drinking? I know lots of normal drinkers who binge sometimes, but more often than not drink normally. One or two. Or even half a drink. I know very few people who always binged who didn't have a problem.
Leaving AA doesn't mean a certain return to drinking. Maybe for some people it does (some people need the support), but perhaps not for you; maybe think of separating the two in your mind? You can leave AA and still stay sober if you want--try it and see how it goes.
The reason a lot of people are so hard-lined in AA is because many have experienced severe alcoholism and don't ever want to go back to it, nor do they want anyone else to. Most have seen a few if not several if not many many deaths directly related to alcoholism and the belief that it's not that bad or that it can be controlled. I'm of the opinion that if you can go back to controlled drinking, have at it and enjoy yourself, but I also think that it's a pretty risky experiment and not one I'd advise.
And from my own experience: I do identify really strongly with the description of the alcoholic in the Big Book and I know without a doubt that I'm an alcoholic, but I still have moments where I can hear the addiction trying to convince myself I could drink normally if I just tried. I've learned not to listen and get on with my happy, sober life. It's a pretty good strategy, if you ask me.
I hope you choose what's best for you and I wish you well.
PS AA is for anyone with the desire to stop drinking (or stay stopped). No further definition or description needed.
I just wanted to pipe in and add some thoughts.
I don't know if you're an alcoholic or not and if you drink or not is entirely up to you. But some questions did pop up in my head.
Do you know why you never tried any controlled gentlemanly drinking? I know lots of normal drinkers who binge sometimes, but more often than not drink normally. One or two. Or even half a drink. I know very few people who always binged who didn't have a problem.
Leaving AA doesn't mean a certain return to drinking. Maybe for some people it does (some people need the support), but perhaps not for you; maybe think of separating the two in your mind? You can leave AA and still stay sober if you want--try it and see how it goes.
The reason a lot of people are so hard-lined in AA is because many have experienced severe alcoholism and don't ever want to go back to it, nor do they want anyone else to. Most have seen a few if not several if not many many deaths directly related to alcoholism and the belief that it's not that bad or that it can be controlled. I'm of the opinion that if you can go back to controlled drinking, have at it and enjoy yourself, but I also think that it's a pretty risky experiment and not one I'd advise.
And from my own experience: I do identify really strongly with the description of the alcoholic in the Big Book and I know without a doubt that I'm an alcoholic, but I still have moments where I can hear the addiction trying to convince myself I could drink normally if I just tried. I've learned not to listen and get on with my happy, sober life. It's a pretty good strategy, if you ask me.
I hope you choose what's best for you and I wish you well.
PS AA is for anyone with the desire to stop drinking (or stay stopped). No further definition or description needed.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,031
Originally Posted by paul99
I am still not sure the point of the post if your mind is made up about AA (brainwashing, idolatry, fear based program, etc) and the idea of "wine with dinner".
It's sort of me posting on an overeaters board, telling them that after 13 years of eating properly and exercise that the doctors were all wrong, Weight Watchers is a scam, and that the food pyramid is a government ploy at controlling us. Oh, and that you're off to the Mandarin buffet.
If you have just been in the rooms of AA, just attending meetings and not doing the steps, then perhaps it's fair to say that you haven't been inAA, but around it. It's in doing the step work that we find the real deal.
All the best in your controlled drinking.
It's sort of me posting on an overeaters board, telling them that after 13 years of eating properly and exercise that the doctors were all wrong, Weight Watchers is a scam, and that the food pyramid is a government ploy at controlling us. Oh, and that you're off to the Mandarin buffet.
If you have just been in the rooms of AA, just attending meetings and not doing the steps, then perhaps it's fair to say that you haven't been inAA, but around it. It's in doing the step work that we find the real deal.
All the best in your controlled drinking.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
I can decide to let the monster out of the cage any time I want. There is just no guarantee that I can put it back into the cage when I want. One big thing that has kept me sober for these 35 years is watching those who thought they could get the monster back into the cage any time they wanted found they could not.
There is nothing in my life that drinking would make better. Period.
There is nothing in my life that drinking would make better. Period.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,003
Originally Posted by soberlicious
Deciding to leave AA and deciding to drink again are two entirely different things. They do not go hand in hand. I agree with miamifella, leave AA if you wish, but why drink?
.[/I]
.[/I]
AA interferes with having that margarita....lol
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
I have/had 2 close friends that felt as you, and made a very conscious decision to drink again. The first was sober 5 years with a wonderful wife, house, etc. Within 3 years he lost pretty much everything and was living alone on a boat. He's disappeared off the face of the earth. No idea what happened to him. No email, no phone...
Second guy was sober 24 years, and we're still friends. For about a year, he drank successfully. Even got me for a very short while to consider the experiment. 2nd year he found himself drinking a bit more than he'd have liked to. 3rd year having a rough time keeping it together... Holding on to a job, carrying out responsibilities, etc. Now he's struggling to get back into AA and can't quite put the pieces together.
If I'm desiring a life with alcohol in it again, then I feel there's something wrong with the way I'm living now. Picking up a drink for me is literally a life and death gamble. Like playing Russian roulette. There are a whole lot of gifts in a sober life, and not a whole lot that a drinking life has to offer me. Plus, if I want to drink it's because I want to get drunk. I see no other point in drinking. And if I make the decision to drink, and get away with it, I'm going to want to do it again. Hence, I can't kid myself. I know exactly where that desire will land me. Eventually.
I'd suggest thinking this through thoroughly before making a move. Think of all the benefits of not drinking, the benefits of drinking, and possible risks. Then think if drinking again is worth it. If you wait this out the desire might pass. If not, nobody will stop you from drinking.
Second guy was sober 24 years, and we're still friends. For about a year, he drank successfully. Even got me for a very short while to consider the experiment. 2nd year he found himself drinking a bit more than he'd have liked to. 3rd year having a rough time keeping it together... Holding on to a job, carrying out responsibilities, etc. Now he's struggling to get back into AA and can't quite put the pieces together.
If I'm desiring a life with alcohol in it again, then I feel there's something wrong with the way I'm living now. Picking up a drink for me is literally a life and death gamble. Like playing Russian roulette. There are a whole lot of gifts in a sober life, and not a whole lot that a drinking life has to offer me. Plus, if I want to drink it's because I want to get drunk. I see no other point in drinking. And if I make the decision to drink, and get away with it, I'm going to want to do it again. Hence, I can't kid myself. I know exactly where that desire will land me. Eventually.
I'd suggest thinking this through thoroughly before making a move. Think of all the benefits of not drinking, the benefits of drinking, and possible risks. Then think if drinking again is worth it. If you wait this out the desire might pass. If not, nobody will stop you from drinking.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mgm, AL
Posts: 1,000
Last Call
I have just a couple final thoughts (responsible ones--the other ones are raging, trust me...):
1. If being in AA is the only thing preventing the poster from drinking I would conclude that AA works.
2. There's no indication that the OP ever actually WORKED the program of AA (the steps, not just fellowship), so I would conclude that he/she was never certain to begin with.
3. If the only requirement for membership was the desire to quit drinking, and that desire is gone, there's no reason to come back.
4. I had CBT program led by a depressed alcoholic on Librium, Campral, Antabuse and Lexapro. Adding the bi-polar dynamic only would have added to the circus. I didn't trust him, either. Once he finished the steps his sanity returned--well, sorta.
5. I've heard that once a person goes into AA, he/she can't ever drink the same again. The voices return and crazy ain't far behind. Again.
6. It's been my experience that when someone starts openly questioning The Solution, the decision has already been made. Snatching back the surrender results in ugly relapse, and I don't know of any returning alcoholic that's said, "HEY! It's AWESOME out there! I drank like a gentleman, the cops ignored me, the mental health facility let me have my shoelaces, and everyone was soooo understanding!"
7. I could do this all day.
A sidebar? There's no Primary Purpose in these forums and there's no adherence to Traditions. I get it--it's not AA. That's disappointing. I personally believe it's irresponsible to throw a drowning man a brick, but that's my burden I suppose. When I was given a map to the way out, I was asked to be responsible in my sobriety and help others.
OP? If you're reading, you know by now that it's the secrets that keep me sick, and telling the truth about myself on the Forums is NOT the same as sharing in a meeting. Tell your HomeGroup your magnificent ideas and be honest. Get back into the middle of the program, work the steps, and get out of your head.
Or don't, but the justifying in the head is what they told me was "Stinkin' Thinkin'" and it'd kill me, jail me, or put me in the funny farm.
1. If being in AA is the only thing preventing the poster from drinking I would conclude that AA works.
2. There's no indication that the OP ever actually WORKED the program of AA (the steps, not just fellowship), so I would conclude that he/she was never certain to begin with.
3. If the only requirement for membership was the desire to quit drinking, and that desire is gone, there's no reason to come back.
4. I had CBT program led by a depressed alcoholic on Librium, Campral, Antabuse and Lexapro. Adding the bi-polar dynamic only would have added to the circus. I didn't trust him, either. Once he finished the steps his sanity returned--well, sorta.
5. I've heard that once a person goes into AA, he/she can't ever drink the same again. The voices return and crazy ain't far behind. Again.
6. It's been my experience that when someone starts openly questioning The Solution, the decision has already been made. Snatching back the surrender results in ugly relapse, and I don't know of any returning alcoholic that's said, "HEY! It's AWESOME out there! I drank like a gentleman, the cops ignored me, the mental health facility let me have my shoelaces, and everyone was soooo understanding!"
7. I could do this all day.
A sidebar? There's no Primary Purpose in these forums and there's no adherence to Traditions. I get it--it's not AA. That's disappointing. I personally believe it's irresponsible to throw a drowning man a brick, but that's my burden I suppose. When I was given a map to the way out, I was asked to be responsible in my sobriety and help others.
OP? If you're reading, you know by now that it's the secrets that keep me sick, and telling the truth about myself on the Forums is NOT the same as sharing in a meeting. Tell your HomeGroup your magnificent ideas and be honest. Get back into the middle of the program, work the steps, and get out of your head.
Or don't, but the justifying in the head is what they told me was "Stinkin' Thinkin'" and it'd kill me, jail me, or put me in the funny farm.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
It's not the "throwing away of 13 years of sobriety"... how does one throw that away if it already happened? Happiness and all that happened too... You know?
I think the thing that scares me.... is that when I walk up to edge (I am only 4.5 years) and wonder if I can drink safely... is that it took a lot to get my head right about sobriety and recovery, and if I do some research and it turns out badly.. man... that's gonna be a tough road getting back... And you know, my life is going pretty darned good now, and why mess with that?
IDK, AA looks kinda fear based at first, but I don't see it that way now, not at all... Do the controlled drinking experiment if you need to... it's just that some people don't get back and it's hard for anyone to endorse it, especially to someone who has not had a drink in 13 years and is happy, joyous and free...
I think the thing that scares me.... is that when I walk up to edge (I am only 4.5 years) and wonder if I can drink safely... is that it took a lot to get my head right about sobriety and recovery, and if I do some research and it turns out badly.. man... that's gonna be a tough road getting back... And you know, my life is going pretty darned good now, and why mess with that?
IDK, AA looks kinda fear based at first, but I don't see it that way now, not at all... Do the controlled drinking experiment if you need to... it's just that some people don't get back and it's hard for anyone to endorse it, especially to someone who has not had a drink in 13 years and is happy, joyous and free...
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
I don't want to spend the rest of my life calling myself an alcoholic either. So I don't. I don't drink. There really doesn't have to Be a specific label for that because it's just an average, normal thing, though some people use the term tee-totaler or non-drinker. That's ok.
My reaction to the first post was "Why after 13 years do you want a drink?"
Did something happen? Was life drinking so awesome that you miss it and want to go back? Is life sober so crappy that to go back to life the way it was when you were drinking is preferable?
I live far away from any city, so going to "town" IS a big deal. And after several weeks of living close to the bone I like to treat myself to a few things, some good chocolate, good olives and real nice cheese. Wine was a genuinely nice accompaniment to that. Apart for the warm buzz, it was a nice balance to those flavors. I miss that. And it was on my mind yesterday when i was shopping. Hmmm...too bad I can't have that nice taste experience.
Then the sense of that pleasant warm buzz came to mind...damn.
Then the spinning head, nausea, "omg why did I do that to myself again?"
came to mind,
then the waking up dehydrated, sick and hungover...and the loathing myself the next day, and the headache.
and the fact that in spite of all that, I would, the next evening be craving a drink, the way I haven't for a long time...
So I saved myself a few dollars and many many troubles by not buying wine and enjoying those other treats on their own merit.
So, I guess it's like sometimes I have to ask myself "why can't I have this?"
and my answer to myself is that "you can, but if you do, then you will have all these other things as well."
sort of like having a fond memory of my ex, and then remembering the way it all turned out in the end...yes, better to not go there again.
Could I ever be a moderate drinker again someday? I don't know. I doubt it. I tried that several times. But could I? Life not drinking at all has been better for me than the crap shoot of life with me drinking. I don't need a drink. I DO need freedom. I'm not willing to gamble anything I cannot afford to lose.
I too have mental illness and have been hospitalized, on various meds, through years and years of therapy, etc. And I will be honest (and I am shocked to be able to say this) working the 12 steps (albeit not specifically in AA) has been the thing that has proven most helpful in allowing me to live a free and productive life.
As I mentioned, I live way out in the sticks (read forest) and I am not able to attend meetings. But I won't give up my PROGRAM. There was a time I attended more than 7 meetings a week and that did not keep me clean. Working my program is the only thing that has both kept me clean and moved me forward in my recovery.
My reaction to the first post was "Why after 13 years do you want a drink?"
Did something happen? Was life drinking so awesome that you miss it and want to go back? Is life sober so crappy that to go back to life the way it was when you were drinking is preferable?
I live far away from any city, so going to "town" IS a big deal. And after several weeks of living close to the bone I like to treat myself to a few things, some good chocolate, good olives and real nice cheese. Wine was a genuinely nice accompaniment to that. Apart for the warm buzz, it was a nice balance to those flavors. I miss that. And it was on my mind yesterday when i was shopping. Hmmm...too bad I can't have that nice taste experience.
Then the sense of that pleasant warm buzz came to mind...damn.
Then the spinning head, nausea, "omg why did I do that to myself again?"
came to mind,
then the waking up dehydrated, sick and hungover...and the loathing myself the next day, and the headache.
and the fact that in spite of all that, I would, the next evening be craving a drink, the way I haven't for a long time...
So I saved myself a few dollars and many many troubles by not buying wine and enjoying those other treats on their own merit.
So, I guess it's like sometimes I have to ask myself "why can't I have this?"
and my answer to myself is that "you can, but if you do, then you will have all these other things as well."
sort of like having a fond memory of my ex, and then remembering the way it all turned out in the end...yes, better to not go there again.
Could I ever be a moderate drinker again someday? I don't know. I doubt it. I tried that several times. But could I? Life not drinking at all has been better for me than the crap shoot of life with me drinking. I don't need a drink. I DO need freedom. I'm not willing to gamble anything I cannot afford to lose.
I too have mental illness and have been hospitalized, on various meds, through years and years of therapy, etc. And I will be honest (and I am shocked to be able to say this) working the 12 steps (albeit not specifically in AA) has been the thing that has proven most helpful in allowing me to live a free and productive life.
As I mentioned, I live way out in the sticks (read forest) and I am not able to attend meetings. But I won't give up my PROGRAM. There was a time I attended more than 7 meetings a week and that did not keep me clean. Working my program is the only thing that has both kept me clean and moved me forward in my recovery.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 19
I don't know what a troll is.
I freely admit I got drunk way too much, and I freely admit AA has helped me a lot!!!
But now, when I re-read the Big Book, I am seeing things differently. The first step, as they say, has to be worked 100%. I used to be convinced I was TOTALLY POWERLESS. Now I doubt this. It feels like a reasonable doubt to me. I spoke with my therapist about it yesterday and he too seemed to agree with my problem with admitting to something I am not certain of.
SOmetimes I am eating pasta and a glass of red wine sounds good. Or if I am out eating tapas maybe a glass of white wine.
I'VE NEVER TRIED TO DRINK LIKE A GENTLEMAN EVER!
I was always drinking to get drunk, conciously!
I am very earnest about my posts here, I am not writing to harass people or talk badly about AA.
As I've said a few times, I have a lot of respect for AA. It has really helped me. I just don't think I am really an alcoholic.
I freely admit I got drunk way too much, and I freely admit AA has helped me a lot!!!
But now, when I re-read the Big Book, I am seeing things differently. The first step, as they say, has to be worked 100%. I used to be convinced I was TOTALLY POWERLESS. Now I doubt this. It feels like a reasonable doubt to me. I spoke with my therapist about it yesterday and he too seemed to agree with my problem with admitting to something I am not certain of.
SOmetimes I am eating pasta and a glass of red wine sounds good. Or if I am out eating tapas maybe a glass of white wine.
I'VE NEVER TRIED TO DRINK LIKE A GENTLEMAN EVER!
I was always drinking to get drunk, conciously!
I am very earnest about my posts here, I am not writing to harass people or talk badly about AA.
As I've said a few times, I have a lot of respect for AA. It has really helped me. I just don't think I am really an alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
its all good. we are trying to help by showing how rationalization worked for us.
ok, youve read the bb. so, there is a great suggestion in there you can take:
We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
if you can control your drinking, hats off to ya.
personally i never tried to drink like a gentleman because i drink like an alcoholic. once ive had one i cant stop.
ok, youve read the bb. so, there is a great suggestion in there you can take:
We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
if you can control your drinking, hats off to ya.
personally i never tried to drink like a gentleman because i drink like an alcoholic. once ive had one i cant stop.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 821
Well, here is my opinion. Only you can know if you can control your drinking. If you never tried to then maybe it is something you need to do for yourself. You will find out quite quickly the answer. For me drinking does not end well regardless of my intentions. Meaning I have gone out intending to get drunk and I have gone out intending to have "just one or two" and either way I end up a mess... BUT, I did have to know for sure that "just one or two beers during a football game" was not an option.
I personally wish you luck. I hope you did wrongly diagnose yourself because it seems that you REALLY miss that glass of wine. As far as AA I "left" AA for many of the reasons your describing and only then did I get sober.... so who knows. It is a wonderful organization that helps a lot of people. If you are not happy in it... Dont stay. That just makes sense.
I personally wish you luck. I hope you did wrongly diagnose yourself because it seems that you REALLY miss that glass of wine. As far as AA I "left" AA for many of the reasons your describing and only then did I get sober.... so who knows. It is a wonderful organization that helps a lot of people. If you are not happy in it... Dont stay. That just makes sense.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I guess I would ask, why is drinking so important to you? Lots of folk do not drink, but you seem to think it is so important that you do? Why?
In life people give up lots of things....ice cream, driving on I95, walking around the house naked...without seriously trying to find a way back. They can do this because they are normies where these things are concerned. But you seem determined to try to drink again as if it mattered a great deal to you? Why?
Why not just quit AA and wait a year to see how you feel before you actually try drinking again? If you lose track of the date, you might be able to handle it. But if that calendar is always in your mind..... you know....
In life people give up lots of things....ice cream, driving on I95, walking around the house naked...without seriously trying to find a way back. They can do this because they are normies where these things are concerned. But you seem determined to try to drink again as if it mattered a great deal to you? Why?
Why not just quit AA and wait a year to see how you feel before you actually try drinking again? If you lose track of the date, you might be able to handle it. But if that calendar is always in your mind..... you know....
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by muvinon
Why not drink if you're not alcoholic....think that's the point.
AA interferes with having that margarita....lol
AA interferes with having that margarita....lol
The point is, in my opinion, is that the OP is thinking that he can drink again without becoming readdicted. I think that is highly unlikely. I did the same after 10 years. I do not call myself an alcoholic. Will I become readdicted if I drink again? absolutely. Those pathways have been burned into my brain.
I would never really know for certain without trying it again though, which is where the OP is at right now. Here's my question: Why is drinking that important?. The return on that gamble simply isn't worth the risk. But addiction cares nothing for risk, does it? The hyperfocus on alcohol is the thing that's interesting...and telling.
I personally think the OP is using "AA doesn't fit anymore" as an excuse to drink, which is entirely his right.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 19
I want to drink like a gentleman because that will prove I am not alcoholic and that will free me from the negative thinking caused by the label "alcoholic". I won't have to think of myself as defective/different/sick, etc. I will be free from the toxic labels found in AA.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
