thinking of leaving AA
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
Originally Posted by antinomies 
Is it crazy to try the experiemnet talked about in the Big Book?
The experiment mentioned I believe is for the new person that is trying to decide if they are an alcoholic. After thirteen years you are now trying to convince yourself and us that you are now not one?
Recovered
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,129
You say "strange as this may sound"....but it is not strange at all. EVERY SINGLE TIME I returned to drinking it was after a PROLONGED sobriety (>5 years) and I didn't think I was an alcoholic anymore.
Yeah, I'm mentally ill too. Yeah, I've done years of CBT and DBT, too. Sorry to say, those are BEHAVIORAL therapies. My brain is still that of an alcoholic. No therapist can tell me otherwise (I had to be careful of the opinionated ones who filled my head with drivel that is not based on science).
I also did not get drunk every time I drank. I did not get into trouble every time either.
IMPORTANT: adding alcohol to the mix when one is already mentally ill (being an alcoholic aside) is dangerous indeed. I would look elsewhere for fun and excitement rather than at the bottle. Also, mixing booze with meds is just asking for trouble. We are talking about messing with neurochemistry here. What does your healthcare team say (therapist, psychiatrist, medical doctor)?
You created an account and then made a statement that you are going to return to drinking. You didn't ask our opinions or ask any questions, so apologies in advance if I am being presumptuous that you even wanted advice.
For me, I am happy, joyous, and free. I don't even THINK about drinking anymore. My life is transformed and even if I *could* be a normal drinker again, I wouldn't. It is really bad for me and I don't put toxins into my body. My life is so much better today. I would not want my old life back for ANYTHING (even before alcohol entered). I love that my life is NOT based on FEAR. I have none today. It has been removed.
Yeah, I'm mentally ill too. Yeah, I've done years of CBT and DBT, too. Sorry to say, those are BEHAVIORAL therapies. My brain is still that of an alcoholic. No therapist can tell me otherwise (I had to be careful of the opinionated ones who filled my head with drivel that is not based on science).
I also did not get drunk every time I drank. I did not get into trouble every time either.
IMPORTANT: adding alcohol to the mix when one is already mentally ill (being an alcoholic aside) is dangerous indeed. I would look elsewhere for fun and excitement rather than at the bottle. Also, mixing booze with meds is just asking for trouble. We are talking about messing with neurochemistry here. What does your healthcare team say (therapist, psychiatrist, medical doctor)?
You created an account and then made a statement that you are going to return to drinking. You didn't ask our opinions or ask any questions, so apologies in advance if I am being presumptuous that you even wanted advice.
For me, I am happy, joyous, and free. I don't even THINK about drinking anymore. My life is transformed and even if I *could* be a normal drinker again, I wouldn't. It is really bad for me and I don't put toxins into my body. My life is so much better today. I would not want my old life back for ANYTHING (even before alcohol entered). I love that my life is NOT based on FEAR. I have none today. It has been removed.
Recovering
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,361
Originally Posted by antinomies
As I look at AA and the disease theory of alcoholism, it seems to me that a lot of the program is fear based. If you try to drink just one, you'll end up dead, or in jail or in an institution. I don't want to live in fear. I honestly don't know whether I am an alcoholic. Is it crazy to try the experiemnet talked about in the Big Book?
AA, in the big book, sets a high level to identity oneself as alcoholic, but that is not to say sobriety and the 12 steps are not wise decisions for those of us for whom alcohol was problematic, if not to the same level as the AA definition and examples of 'alcoholic'.
Recovered
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,129
Oh, I forgot:
My bio-dad is 31 years sober. Got sober in AA. Took the steps and worked with others. After a decade or so, he didn't want to be member anymore so he quit going to meetings. He still doesn't drink, though. He says that returning to drinking is not even remotely logical.
My bio-dad is 31 years sober. Got sober in AA. Took the steps and worked with others. After a decade or so, he didn't want to be member anymore so he quit going to meetings. He still doesn't drink, though. He says that returning to drinking is not even remotely logical.
Sober since Jan 1, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,583
Ahhh, the great obsession to drink like a normal person. I don't think I was a chronic drunk. I didn't drink in the morning, or during the day. But boy, after 5PM was another story. I just made up for the rest of the day I wasn't drinking! I agree with what a lot has been said here.
There's a guy in my mtgs who went out after 15 months. He said he just didn't think he was a drunk. So he just had one glass of wine. Then the next night another. After about a week he was right back at it again. So no, I don't think that if I had a glass of wine right now I'd be drunk (although my tolerance is probably pretty low!), but I do think that it would turn on that switch again, and before you know it'd I'd be drinking even heavier than before.
I don't always take the BB quite so literally - but I also pay close attention to those who have gone out and it really doesn't look better on the other side.
There's a guy in my mtgs who went out after 15 months. He said he just didn't think he was a drunk. So he just had one glass of wine. Then the next night another. After about a week he was right back at it again. So no, I don't think that if I had a glass of wine right now I'd be drunk (although my tolerance is probably pretty low!), but I do think that it would turn on that switch again, and before you know it'd I'd be drinking even heavier than before.
I don't always take the BB quite so literally - but I also pay close attention to those who have gone out and it really doesn't look better on the other side.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 19
To be honest, I feel like I was semi-brainwashed about AA and alcoholism. I came into the meetings at a time when I was very vulnerable and decided to believe what AA said rather than think on my own.
I have learned a lot in AA--gratitude, this too shall pass, honesty, accountability, responsibility. I learned how to grow up in AA.
I don't hate AA and I certainly don't plan on getting drunk. I believe abstinence is good but I also believe moderation is good as well.
I don't feel comfortable calling myself an alcoholic if I am not one...I think the AA where I am in super hard core, Big Book thumping, work the steps or die die die brand of AA. I never was a big AA zealot, more of a sobriety zealot...
I appreciate all the responses, even the fear-based ones.
I have learned a lot in AA--gratitude, this too shall pass, honesty, accountability, responsibility. I learned how to grow up in AA.
I don't hate AA and I certainly don't plan on getting drunk. I believe abstinence is good but I also believe moderation is good as well.
I don't feel comfortable calling myself an alcoholic if I am not one...I think the AA where I am in super hard core, Big Book thumping, work the steps or die die die brand of AA. I never was a big AA zealot, more of a sobriety zealot...
I appreciate all the responses, even the fear-based ones.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,541
Assuming that alcohol will not interfere with your medication, and that you are not an alcoholic, you have nothing to fear. Given you plan, if you are an alcoholic you have everything to fear. I guess your going to find out.
Why you would choose to post what you did in a 12 step forum when you have already made up your mind is a bit of a head scratcher for me (though I have my guesses). In any event I'm glad AA served a useful purpose for you.
Why you would choose to post what you did in a 12 step forum when you have already made up your mind is a bit of a head scratcher for me (though I have my guesses). In any event I'm glad AA served a useful purpose for you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 19
haven't made up my mind about anything yet--if I had I wouldn't have posted anything. Like I tell my therapists, if I am suicidal I just won't show up, and if I decided to drink, I wouldn't bother talking/writing to anybody. Using this forum as a sounding-board and also to get some different input.
Good point, if If I am non alcoholic, who gives a crap if I drink? ANd if I am alcoholic, I am screwed.
I have believed unquestioningly in AA for 13 years, and now I doubt a fair amount of the program, specifically the disease concept, and also the entire choose your own higher power idea which seems idolatrous to me...too much reading of orange papers :-)
Good point, if If I am non alcoholic, who gives a crap if I drink? ANd if I am alcoholic, I am screwed.
I have believed unquestioningly in AA for 13 years, and now I doubt a fair amount of the program, specifically the disease concept, and also the entire choose your own higher power idea which seems idolatrous to me...too much reading of orange papers :-)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,641
Originally Posted by antinomies
I am in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy right now. I have been diagnosed with Bipolar 2. I am looking at my thinking, and why I think so negatively about myself. I think incessantly labelling myself as an alcoholic might be causing some of my negative thinking. It is also probable/possible that I drank because I was mentally ill.
Having a glass of wine with dinner sounds normal, nice, ordinary, human. I am not talking about getting loaded...just drinking like a gentleman. And as for 13 years of sobriety, who cares, really? It's a one day at a time program, and if I just have a drink or two, that proves I am not an alcoholic and therefore an idiot for having gone to meetings for 13 years :-)
From my reading of the Big Book, AA is for chronic alcoholics only, not problems drinkings, not binge drinkers, not bipolar drinkers. If I am not a chronic alcholic I don't belong.
I started going to AA after going through ECT for serious depression and was desperate for some type of companionship/help.
Having a glass of wine with dinner sounds normal, nice, ordinary, human. I am not talking about getting loaded...just drinking like a gentleman. And as for 13 years of sobriety, who cares, really? It's a one day at a time program, and if I just have a drink or two, that proves I am not an alcoholic and therefore an idiot for having gone to meetings for 13 years :-)
From my reading of the Big Book, AA is for chronic alcoholics only, not problems drinkings, not binge drinkers, not bipolar drinkers. If I am not a chronic alcholic I don't belong.
I started going to AA after going through ECT for serious depression and was desperate for some type of companionship/help.
You may not be an alcoholic, but you are truly, certifiably BONKERS if you drink with your psychological makeup.
You may not be an alcoholic, but drinking on top of a history of major depression requiring ECT is truly "radical" thinking.
I will sign any petition you want to say you are not an alcoholic, but for the love of mary, don't drink to prove you are "normal".
Oh, and stay away from the "Orange Papers".
If you are done with AA, be done, what is the point of learning to detest it?
Move along, join Smart, baseball, the republicans, crochet class.
Best of luck.
You might find the missing link here in Sober Recovery!!!
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 453
Hello. 
I just wanted to pipe in and add some thoughts.
I don't know if you're an alcoholic or not and if you drink or not is entirely up to you. But some questions did pop up in my head.
Do you know why you never tried any controlled gentlemanly drinking? I know lots of normal drinkers who binge sometimes, but more often than not drink normally. One or two. Or even half a drink. I know very few people who always binged who didn't have a problem.
Leaving AA doesn't mean a certain return to drinking. Maybe for some people it does (some people need the support), but perhaps not for you; maybe think of separating the two in your mind? You can leave AA and still stay sober if you want--try it and see how it goes.
The reason a lot of people are so hard-lined in AA is because many have experienced severe alcoholism and don't ever want to go back to it, nor do they want anyone else to. Most have seen a few if not several if not many many deaths directly related to alcoholism and the belief that it's not that bad or that it can be controlled. I'm of the opinion that if you can go back to controlled drinking, have at it and enjoy yourself, but I also think that it's a pretty risky experiment and not one I'd advise.
And from my own experience: I do identify really strongly with the description of the alcoholic in the Big Book and I know without a doubt that I'm an alcoholic, but I still have moments where I can hear the addiction trying to convince myself I could drink normally if I just tried. I've learned not to listen and get on with my happy, sober life. It's a pretty good strategy, if you ask me.
I hope you choose what's best for you and I wish you well.
PS AA is for anyone with the desire to stop drinking (or stay stopped). No further definition or description needed.
I just wanted to pipe in and add some thoughts.
I don't know if you're an alcoholic or not and if you drink or not is entirely up to you. But some questions did pop up in my head.
Do you know why you never tried any controlled gentlemanly drinking? I know lots of normal drinkers who binge sometimes, but more often than not drink normally. One or two. Or even half a drink. I know very few people who always binged who didn't have a problem.
Leaving AA doesn't mean a certain return to drinking. Maybe for some people it does (some people need the support), but perhaps not for you; maybe think of separating the two in your mind? You can leave AA and still stay sober if you want--try it and see how it goes.
The reason a lot of people are so hard-lined in AA is because many have experienced severe alcoholism and don't ever want to go back to it, nor do they want anyone else to. Most have seen a few if not several if not many many deaths directly related to alcoholism and the belief that it's not that bad or that it can be controlled. I'm of the opinion that if you can go back to controlled drinking, have at it and enjoy yourself, but I also think that it's a pretty risky experiment and not one I'd advise.
And from my own experience: I do identify really strongly with the description of the alcoholic in the Big Book and I know without a doubt that I'm an alcoholic, but I still have moments where I can hear the addiction trying to convince myself I could drink normally if I just tried. I've learned not to listen and get on with my happy, sober life. It's a pretty good strategy, if you ask me.
I hope you choose what's best for you and I wish you well.
PS AA is for anyone with the desire to stop drinking (or stay stopped). No further definition or description needed.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,308
I am really glad you brought this to the forums attention. I can understand wanting to leave AA after 13 years but to go out and drink again is pretty radical.
I love it when people talk about having a wine with dinner. I never got that, I either ate or drank and because the food would cancel the effects of the alcohol I chose not to eat.
Another thing, unless the wine is of very good quality it's just like drinking vinegar with your meals.
That aside what do you hope to gain from having a drink with your meals?
Is that right Bill asked for whisky on his deathbed.
The way I feel today is that I don't want to drink I don't want to change how I am feeling today or lose control. But I thank you for your post because if after 13 years you feel like this then I will be ever vigililant in my sobriety.
As was mentioned the meds and alcohol won't that be a problem?
Please keep posting.
All the very best
Love
caiHong
I love it when people talk about having a wine with dinner. I never got that, I either ate or drank and because the food would cancel the effects of the alcohol I chose not to eat.
Another thing, unless the wine is of very good quality it's just like drinking vinegar with your meals.
That aside what do you hope to gain from having a drink with your meals?
Is that right Bill asked for whisky on his deathbed.
The way I feel today is that I don't want to drink I don't want to change how I am feeling today or lose control. But I thank you for your post because if after 13 years you feel like this then I will be ever vigililant in my sobriety.
As was mentioned the meds and alcohol won't that be a problem?
Please keep posting.
All the very best
Love
caiHong
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
I am still not sure the point of the post if your mind is made up about AA (brainwashing, idolatry, fear based program, etc) and the idea of "wine with dinner".
It's sort of me posting on an overeaters board, telling them that after 13 years of eating properly and exercise that the doctors were all wrong, Weight Watchers is a scam, and that the food pyramid is a government ploy at controlling us. Oh, and that you're off to the Mandarin buffet.
If you have just been in the rooms of AA, just attending meetings and not doing the steps, then perhaps it's fair to say that you haven't been inAA, but around it. It's in doing the step work that we find the real deal.
All the best in your controlled drinking.
It's sort of me posting on an overeaters board, telling them that after 13 years of eating properly and exercise that the doctors were all wrong, Weight Watchers is a scam, and that the food pyramid is a government ploy at controlling us. Oh, and that you're off to the Mandarin buffet.
If you have just been in the rooms of AA, just attending meetings and not doing the steps, then perhaps it's fair to say that you haven't been inAA, but around it. It's in doing the step work that we find the real deal.
All the best in your controlled drinking.
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,452
Originally Posted by antinomies
I've been sober and in AA for 13 years. Strange as this may sound, I no longer think I am an alcoholic. I think I always was a binge drinker. I've been re-reading the doctor's opinion and the description of the chronic alcoholic and I don't think this is me. I've done crazy stuff when drunk but don't believe in my heart that if I have one drink then I will necessarily get drunk. I am thinking of trying the conrolled drinking experiment and having one drink and seeing what happens. I got sober when I was 29 and I never tried any type of normal gentlemanly controlled drinking.
I'll save you the time and say that I have tried this experiment and failed.
One drink is usually followed by another.
I don't think I have ever had one drink...and enjoyed that. One was never enough.
Some people have to drink again to convince themselves to their innermost being that they are alcoholic.
Unfortunately knowing this about myself didn't keep me from drinking for way too many years.
I hope you don't try the experiment, but if you do, I pray you will not hurt yourself.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: FL
Posts: 698
I'm gonna chime in according to how my sponsor would likely answer this, and I'm not a big Big Book quoter, but it goes something like this...."If your not sure you are an alcoholic go to any bar and try some controlled drinking."
You are obviously not convinced that you are powerless over alcohol. Go back out and find out what happens. That's the only way you will know. "You know in your knower," that's what she always tells me....
My hat is off to you if you can do it, I have surely tried and failed to drink like a lady!!
You are obviously not convinced that you are powerless over alcohol. Go back out and find out what happens. That's the only way you will know. "You know in your knower," that's what she always tells me....
My hat is off to you if you can do it, I have surely tried and failed to drink like a lady!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Trenches, Texas
Posts: 778
"Either way it'll bring you closer to God."--Joe H.
a) you find out you're not alcoholic and get free of AA
b) you find out you are alcoholic; get back into the steps and find a new relationship with that which have you 13 years of grace.
c) you find out you're alcoholic and don't get back into the steps and die an alcoholic death.
Now where else have I seen ABCs??? Hmmm...
a) you find out you're not alcoholic and get free of AA
b) you find out you are alcoholic; get back into the steps and find a new relationship with that which have you 13 years of grace.
c) you find out you're alcoholic and don't get back into the steps and die an alcoholic death.
Now where else have I seen ABCs??? Hmmm...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 249
Interesting topic. I'll spare you the "fear-based" answer. I think that you are doing exactly as they suggest in AA ... try some controlled drinking if you don't think you're an alcoholic. Because only you can decide if you really are an alcoholic or not. All I can say is "I get it". I've been wondering about my own situation for a long while now. I didn't ever go to jail, lose a job, or anything like that. All I suffered was awful hangovers every day and losing all of my friends (I make it sound like it it wasn't all that bad!). So I start rationalizing and thinking that maybe I'm overreacting to all of this and just needed to take a sabbatical from drinking for a quite a while so that I can get a handle on myself and then entertain the idea of going back out again.
I can tell you that I was thinking this way when I got home from work today. Then I went to a step meeting tonight, was given some assignments, actually listened to everyone else and their assignments in the room, and now I feel warm and peaceful again inside. Just not craving that drink in the hot weather like I was earlier. I know that 13 years in you've probably heard this thousands of times but I guess my point is that no matter how long you've been around, your default response to situations is a 6-pack or whatever and not pray, call others, etc. I get it. But that's where we start each day and we have to "reprogram" ourselves to be back closer to God again.
Either way, I wish you luck in your experiment and let us know how it turns out! In my experience, I have heard of a few people who left AA but remained sober in other ways. Sometimes, they succeeded. But I have yet to hear someone talk about how they left AA and now they only drink moderately each day. But again, I get it. When you just don't know, you just have to find out. That's just how we are.
I can tell you that I was thinking this way when I got home from work today. Then I went to a step meeting tonight, was given some assignments, actually listened to everyone else and their assignments in the room, and now I feel warm and peaceful again inside. Just not craving that drink in the hot weather like I was earlier. I know that 13 years in you've probably heard this thousands of times but I guess my point is that no matter how long you've been around, your default response to situations is a 6-pack or whatever and not pray, call others, etc. I get it. But that's where we start each day and we have to "reprogram" ourselves to be back closer to God again.
Either way, I wish you luck in your experiment and let us know how it turns out! In my experience, I have heard of a few people who left AA but remained sober in other ways. Sometimes, they succeeded. But I have yet to hear someone talk about how they left AA and now they only drink moderately each day. But again, I get it. When you just don't know, you just have to find out. That's just how we are.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
