Fifth step and Psychiatry.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 3,756
Fifth step and Psychiatry.
I have just completed a draft of the 5th step, seen as an important adjunct to satisfactory recovery.
Having seen five or more psychiatrists over the decades, most of whom any rapport was quite limited, I am contemplating this step utilizing such facility....?????.......
I see step 5 as possibly quite cathartic.
No worry over criminal charges pending or anything like that.
I am of philosophic bent (can get crazy, frustrating, and annoying) both of us and can't really think of any suitable friends. Only a few months back in to A.A. and no one yet met seems ideal there either.
Any suggestions?
Having seen five or more psychiatrists over the decades, most of whom any rapport was quite limited, I am contemplating this step utilizing such facility....?????.......
I see step 5 as possibly quite cathartic.
No worry over criminal charges pending or anything like that.
I am of philosophic bent (can get crazy, frustrating, and annoying) both of us and can't really think of any suitable friends. Only a few months back in to A.A. and no one yet met seems ideal there either.
Any suggestions?
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
My step 5 was amazingly cathartic. I felt on a complete cloud of happiness for a few days.
But it didn't solve all my 'issues'. I needed professional help and by doing that hand in hand with working through the rest of the steps, I was able to achieve some sense of peace. My therapist also helped me with making my list of amends more realistic. There were several there who didn't need to be on the list at all and I was helped to see that.
My sponsor helps guide me through the steps and on my journey, but she isn't a mental health professional and has always encouraged me to seek medical advice when necessary.
But it didn't solve all my 'issues'. I needed professional help and by doing that hand in hand with working through the rest of the steps, I was able to achieve some sense of peace. My therapist also helped me with making my list of amends more realistic. There were several there who didn't need to be on the list at all and I was helped to see that.
My sponsor helps guide me through the steps and on my journey, but she isn't a mental health professional and has always encouraged me to seek medical advice when necessary.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: FL
Posts: 698
Me and my AA friends all did our 5th with our sponsor; do you have one?
If I were to consider a professional I would choose a counseling therapist ( a psychologist or licensed clinical social worker). A psychiatrist is a medical doctor who diagnoses medical conditions and prescribed meds, so I wouldn't choose one of those to talk to for hours, in fact he or she isn't likely to agree to it Particularly for someone who is not established under their care.
The biggest consideration is trustworthiness. Consider also a member of the clergy, a priest or pastor would be most appropriate.
If I were to consider a professional I would choose a counseling therapist ( a psychologist or licensed clinical social worker). A psychiatrist is a medical doctor who diagnoses medical conditions and prescribed meds, so I wouldn't choose one of those to talk to for hours, in fact he or she isn't likely to agree to it Particularly for someone who is not established under their care.
The biggest consideration is trustworthiness. Consider also a member of the clergy, a priest or pastor would be most appropriate.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
my friend, yer complicating a simple program. its typical of us alcoholics, but it doesnt do any good.
keep it simple.
do it like the BB suggests. it isnt any simpler,easier, or fullfiiling than that.
keep it simple.
do it like the BB suggests. it isnt any simpler,easier, or fullfiiling than that.
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mgm, AL
Posts: 1,000
H.o.w.
Originally Posted by Murchovski 
I have just completed a draft of the 5th step
I am contemplating this step utilizing such facility
I am of philosophic bent (can get crazy, frustrating, and annoying)
think of any suitable friends. Only a few months back in to A.A. and no one yet met seems ideal there either
Humility at depth and reckless desperation are most suited for a successful journey to a new life. "Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable." Alcoholics Anonymous, Appendix II, pp 568, 4th Ed.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 813
Reason to do Step 5 :
"If we skip this step we may not overcome drinking."
Who to do Step 5 with:
"We search our acquaintance for a close-mouthed, understanding friend."
When to do 5th. Step:
"We hold ourselves in complete readiness to go through with it at the first opportunity."
Above is Bill Wilson's clear cut, specific draft for completing the 5th. Step. He also gives clear cut, specific instructions for Step 4 on page 65 of the BB.
If you want to achieve recovery, I suggest you follow the receipe for success instead of ad-libing. Its like baking a cake, if you leave out ingredients or add extras you will end up with a pile of goo.
Follow the directions and you will succeed. Now, go for it.
3rd. Edition stuff..........
"If we skip this step we may not overcome drinking."
Who to do Step 5 with:
"We search our acquaintance for a close-mouthed, understanding friend."
When to do 5th. Step:
"We hold ourselves in complete readiness to go through with it at the first opportunity."
Above is Bill Wilson's clear cut, specific draft for completing the 5th. Step. He also gives clear cut, specific instructions for Step 4 on page 65 of the BB.
If you want to achieve recovery, I suggest you follow the receipe for success instead of ad-libing. Its like baking a cake, if you leave out ingredients or add extras you will end up with a pile of goo.
Follow the directions and you will succeed. Now, go for it.
3rd. Edition stuff..........
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Murchovski - The Big Book says you can do it with someone ordained by an established religion, a close-mouthed, understanding friend, or a doctor or psychologist, or even a member of your family (so long as it would not hurt them). It also says you should think well about who you would like to do it with and then waste no time.
So the answer is yes, you can do it with a psychiatrist.
I found it helpful to work the steps with a sponsor. Are you doing that?
Just because you have a sponsor doesn't mean you have to do your fifth step with them. I had a sponsee who I worked with that, when she got to the fifth step, preferred to do it with her counselor. It had to be someone you will be able to be 1000% honest with. That's what matters.
It's very important not to drag your feet about it and just get it done. You'll hear lots of folks say they got tremendous relief after doing the fifth step with someone. That was my experience.
Don't let your fear hold you back. You can walk through it and come out stronger on the other side.
So the answer is yes, you can do it with a psychiatrist.
I found it helpful to work the steps with a sponsor. Are you doing that?
Just because you have a sponsor doesn't mean you have to do your fifth step with them. I had a sponsee who I worked with that, when she got to the fifth step, preferred to do it with her counselor. It had to be someone you will be able to be 1000% honest with. That's what matters.
It's very important not to drag your feet about it and just get it done. You'll hear lots of folks say they got tremendous relief after doing the fifth step with someone. That was my experience.
Don't let your fear hold you back. You can walk through it and come out stronger on the other side.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
I don't want to throw a wrench into the works but...here it comes anyway.
My one concern (?) about doing the 5th with a psychologist/therapist is their tendency (understandably) to them analyze it and pick it apart and keep us buried in it...rather than simply hearing it, nodding along, asking a few simple questions and moving on to 6.
The point is to do it and move on.
13 yrs of therapy kept me mired in it, I knew my story inside out and upside down and all the implications and sublties and the why's and I got worse and worse because I never moved on, we kept digging and searching and analyzing and never moving on.
This may be just MY experience. But one of the amazing freedoms of the 5th is that it's followed by 6,7,8,9....
My one concern (?) about doing the 5th with a psychologist/therapist is their tendency (understandably) to them analyze it and pick it apart and keep us buried in it...rather than simply hearing it, nodding along, asking a few simple questions and moving on to 6.
The point is to do it and move on.
13 yrs of therapy kept me mired in it, I knew my story inside out and upside down and all the implications and sublties and the why's and I got worse and worse because I never moved on, we kept digging and searching and analyzing and never moving on.
This may be just MY experience. But one of the amazing freedoms of the 5th is that it's followed by 6,7,8,9....
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 464
I did my first 5th step with my sponsor and I have not regretted it. It was hard for me I was freaking out so badly before I wasn't going to tell her one thing only tell my therapist long story short I ended up telling her that thing and now am able to move on from it. I wish you luck in your 5th step. You can do it.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 3,756
Originally Posted by sugarbear1
My draft for my 5th step was my 4th step. Is that what you've done?
Don't know about an X or R rated version.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
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Posts: 3,756
Originally Posted by skg
There's no such thing as a 'draft' fifth step, unless referring to the Stinkin' Thinkin' about doing the step... Put pride aside and pick a sponsor. Good luck.There's another book that calls that 'vanity of the mind'. (Jam 3:14-17, Eph 4:17). "For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there." Alcoholics know it well.
If waiting for the perfect person to grace you with their presence, bring a snack. Most people in AA are there because they have a desire to stop drinking, not argue the meaning of life. Liars, cheats, adulterers, scoundrels and horse thieves, most of them, with a common goal of laying all differences aside to get and stay sober, and to help others achieve sobriety. Look for similarities, not differences...
Humility at depth and reckless desperation are most suited for a successful journey to a new life. "Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable." Alcoholics Anonymous, Appendix II, pp 568, 4th Ed.
If waiting for the perfect person to grace you with their presence, bring a snack. Most people in AA are there because they have a desire to stop drinking, not argue the meaning of life. Liars, cheats, adulterers, scoundrels and horse thieves, most of them, with a common goal of laying all differences aside to get and stay sober, and to help others achieve sobriety. Look for similarities, not differences...
Humility at depth and reckless desperation are most suited for a successful journey to a new life. "Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable." Alcoholics Anonymous, Appendix II, pp 568, 4th Ed.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 3,756
[QUOTE=PaperDolls;3990833]Murchovski - The Big Book says you can do it with someone ordained by an established religion, a close-mouthed, understanding friend, or a doctor or psychologist, or even a member of your family (so long as it would not hurt them). It also says you should think well about who you would like to do it with and then waste no time.
So the answer is yes, you can do it with a psychiatrist.
I found it helpful to work the steps with a sponsor. Are you doing that?
Just because you have a sponsor doesn't mean you have to do your fifth step with them. I had a sponsee who I worked with that, when she got to the fifth step, preferred to do it with her counselor. It had to be someone you will be able to be 1000% honest with. That's what matters.
It's very important not to drag your feet about it and just get it done. You'll hear lots of folks say they got tremendous relief after doing the fifth step with someone. That was my experience.
Don't let your fear hold you back. You can walk through it and come out stronger on the other side.[/QUOTE
Thank you, no I don't have a sponsor.
The secretary of my home group did it with a psychiatrist and that's where I got the idea.
My wife doesn't want me to do it at all.
Thanksfor the input everyone.
So the answer is yes, you can do it with a psychiatrist.
I found it helpful to work the steps with a sponsor. Are you doing that?
Just because you have a sponsor doesn't mean you have to do your fifth step with them. I had a sponsee who I worked with that, when she got to the fifth step, preferred to do it with her counselor. It had to be someone you will be able to be 1000% honest with. That's what matters.
It's very important not to drag your feet about it and just get it done. You'll hear lots of folks say they got tremendous relief after doing the fifth step with someone. That was my experience.
Don't let your fear hold you back. You can walk through it and come out stronger on the other side.[/QUOTE
Thank you, no I don't have a sponsor.
The secretary of my home group did it with a psychiatrist and that's where I got the idea.
My wife doesn't want me to do it at all.
Thanksfor the input everyone.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 3,756
Originally Posted by Threshold
I don't want to throw a wrench into the works but...here it comes anyway.
My one concern (?) about doing the 5th with a psychologist/therapist is their tendency (understandably) to them analyze it and pick it apart and keep us buried in it...rather than simply hearing it, nodding along, asking a few simple questions and moving on to 6.
The point is to do it and move on.
13 yrs of therapy kept me mired in it, I knew my story inside out and upside down and all the implications and sublties and the why's and I got worse and worse because I never moved on, we kept digging and searching and analyzing and never moving on.
This may be just MY experience. But one of the amazing freedoms of the 5th is that it's followed by 6,7,8,9....
My one concern (?) about doing the 5th with a psychologist/therapist is their tendency (understandably) to them analyze it and pick it apart and keep us buried in it...rather than simply hearing it, nodding along, asking a few simple questions and moving on to 6.
The point is to do it and move on.
13 yrs of therapy kept me mired in it, I knew my story inside out and upside down and all the implications and sublties and the why's and I got worse and worse because I never moved on, we kept digging and searching and analyzing and never moving on.
This may be just MY experience. But one of the amazing freedoms of the 5th is that it's followed by 6,7,8,9....
Not waiting for the "perfect option", but I do think empathy and some similarities are important.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 813
QUOTE=Murchovski;
Thank you, no I don't have a sponsor.
The secretary of my home group did it with a psychiatrist and that's where I got the idea.
My wife doesn't want me to do it at all.
Thanks for the input everyone.
Thank you, no I don't have a sponsor.
The secretary of my home group did it with a psychiatrist and that's where I got the idea.
My wife doesn't want me to do it at all.
Thanks for the input everyone.
you may cause her great harm - even if you don't intend to. That would
be a severe violation of the second part of the 9th. Step.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,541
"We search our acquaintance for a close-mouthed, understanding friend."
If you are going to do a 5th step with a mental health professional, be aware that if you disclose certain types of abuse, that it may need to be reported (by law) to protective services if the "mandatory reporter" laws apply. This varies state to state.
If you are going to do a 5th step with a mental health professional, be aware that if you disclose certain types of abuse, that it may need to be reported (by law) to protective services if the "mandatory reporter" laws apply. This varies state to state.
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