antinomies

thanks for all your responses.

At one time, I worked the steps 1-7, kind of did 8 and 9, kind of did 10-12. I made some nice living ammends that's for sure. Paid my fines, paid the cops back, paid off loans, got my credit up. Like everything, I am sure I could've done better; I am sure I could have done worse. I go to CHurch now and try to follow the precepts to keep me in line spiritually. I need a traditional God because the God of my understanding is just me.

Wary of sponsors now due to mental health condition and being misunderstood. Had a sponsor a few years ago who scared me because he boiled program down to "one alcoholic talking to another" and said the book was written for 2 people to keep each other sober. It was way creepy. AA is cool but I don't want it to be my entire life. And i don't want some old dude to be my entire life either.

I very much appreciate all the responses. I understand the vehemence with which people advocate total abstinence. Being drunk wreaks all kinds of havoc. I also understand that alcohol may have been only a symptom of a deeper problem and when that deeper problem is addressed maybe a glass of wine or two like a normal person can be handled. If God can return us to complete sobriety and absitence, I imagine God can also return us to moderation. (There is plenty of good talk about wine in the Bible).

Take care all, and I really do appreciate all the responses.

soberlicious

and all I'm saying to you is this: I am free from toxic labels too, but I didn't have to drink to prove anything.

I'm pretty sure God does not have anything to do with moderating alcohol. After all, we were ALL born not needing alcohol. It's not a food group.

antinomies

good for you! Nice work

soberlicious

Thanks...it hasn't been easy, but so worth it
I hope you find peace. xo

Joe Nerv

LOL. Been around a while, and never heard that before. Will teach it in my health classes along with the my plate lessons.

mfanch

Drinking like a gentleman doesn't prove anything. I drank like a lady and was still an alcoholic. It's not about the alcohol, it's about the brain underneath it.

Blame AA all day. Fine. Then go. But the other part, the return to drinking is just you relapsing. That is all that is.

And sorry, drinking or not is not going to free you from anything. It is just another excuse to drink.

I think you've gotten a lot of good advice. Good luck.

Michael66

Some good points being raised that alcoholism, membership of AA, and choosing sobriety are three different things. Someone can choose sobriety outside of AA with or without identifying with the label "alcoholic". Similarly perhaps there are some in AA who don't commit themselves to sobriety with the same enthusiasm as some outside of AA.

People are complicated

anotherquitter

I've only got just over a year. I try to keep in mind the phrase "We shall not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it." In learning through the lens of AA, and admitting my alcoholic nature, I've examined my past behaviors even more, if only to grow and to affirm the finality of my last drink. That is what I try to keep in mind whenever I find myself doubting, and will help me not pick up that first drink, regardless of being engaged with AA, doing the steps or not.

Whatever your decision I wish you well.

sandgirl

Only been sober2 months but feels free. PLEASE DON'T throw 13 years of sobriety away when we can all tell you know you can't just have one drink! It's like asking "can I jump off a bridge and survive?!". Would live to see you post tomorrow saying it was a mad moment-you didn't drink and will continue to live a sober life happy and give me hope that AV will not get me in 13 years time when I'm complacent! X

antinomies

In short, I am re-working step 1, reading AA literature, attending AA meetings, thinking as clearly as I can, and what I see now is the following: I do NOT think I am a chronic alcoholic, I do NOT think I am a real alcholic as described in doctor's opinion and Big Book.

From the way I read the Big Book and understand AA, the program is NOT for somebody like me, it is only for the "chronic" or "real" alcoholic.

I don't believe I am in "relapse mode" and I am trying to avoid platitudes and think about my situation--15-17 drinking in Tijuana; college getting drunk 3-4 nites a week; 22-29 drinking to get drunk; what I see is an immature kid using alcohol to "party" and "have fun". As I got older, the binges weren't fun; thus, AA.

In my honest opinion my drinking pattern is binge drinking.

antinomies

Don't know what AV is.

mfanch

lol then go be a binge drinker then. This is an abstinence forum. Have a nice day.

paul99

Moderation Management

freshstart57

AV is shorthand for 'alcoholic voice', a phrase that describes the other side of the struggle in which all addicts are engaged. I want to quit drinking, but,I dunno what happens, I end up drunk. I get this urge to drink and the ideas that pop into my head are, it's ok you deserve a drink after that day you had today, just a couple then I'll stop for tonight, I don't need to quit drinking for good, I can't quit drinking for good, I have a disease that makes me drink, I sure could use a drink, I will never enjoy anything without a drink, drinking makes things better, it's in my genes to drink, and so on and on.

The AV is the voice of our lower brain function that will say anything to prolong and continue our drinking career. It is also adept at placing doubt in our minds concerning our desire to quit and our ability to stay quit.

Recognizing and separating from this lower brain function allows us to become aware of and to control our drinking urges and ultimately to reject drinking for good.

antinomies

"This is an abstinence forum". Sorry, I didn't know that. By the by, I am just raising reasonable questions and concerns, not attacking anybody or any philosophy. I have been abstinent 13 years and have absolutely nothing against abstience or moderation (or drunkeness for that matter). Just bouncing ideas off people.

I am sorry my ideas and thoughts offended you. I thought recovery was about being honest. I am trying to be honest with myself even if that honesty does not coincide with the AA party line.

I don't want to return to binge drinking. I have no desire to get drunk. Thank you all, and I think I have overstayed my welcome.

"To thine own self be true"

freshstart57

I also don't believe that you are throwing anything away by choosing to stop attending AA meetings. They are not necessary in my experience to quit drinking, nor are they necessary in your experience to pursue spiritual growth.

I reject the AA premise that I drank because there was something defective, diseased and immoral about me. That line of thought was never going to be effective for me. I was certainly sick while drinking, sick in many ways, but these were results of drinking, not causes.

You can also reject these tenets without returning to drink, and that's what I would recommend. Walk away from the whole business if you choose, but don't drink.

miamifella

Your low-self-image will not repair itself simply by having a glass of wine with dinner.

If you think something external will get rid of "negative" thinking, you are sure to be disappointed.

You are describing "alcoholic" as a label, as something toxic, as something indicating a defect. If I might suggest, a good therapist will help you more than drinking. This thinking indicates a pattern of thought that drinking will not get rid of. If you can drink then you will find something else to attach to yourself as a toxic label.

Many people don't drink. Many people describe themselves as alcoholics or addicts without it becoming a "label" or having a negative effect on their self-image. But this is something you feel unable to do. There is another problem here--it is not the one you think.

miamifella

Uh, I am confused. I thought you said you were not an alcoholic and now you are saying you are a binge drinker.

Isn't being a binge drinker an indication of alcoholism?

Michael66

Hi antinomies

I think you are raising important points. I think you help remind us (or at least me) that not everything is black and white. There is a sliding scale of problems with alcohol. I was definitely at the point where abstinence was the only sensible choice (and I now love it) but I too doubt whether the founders of AA would have classed me as a real alcohol, though maybe I was heading that way.

Lots of people drink without a problem. I can happily embrace sobriety knowing I can't sustsain moderate drinking. I can see where some frustration could come in if you don't feel you have ever tried it, especially past immature years. I would just advise having a clear line in the sand where, if passed, you recognise you still have a problem that needs a total abstinence soluton. Then you'll know that you are not one of those people who can always choose to stop.

But also please consider that you don't have to be a "real alcoholic" to be happier, healthier and a better husband, dad, brother, son, friend or neighbour by choosing not to drink.

mfanch

I wasn't trying to be snarky. I am not offended at all. Reading your posts gives me profound gratitude. What I meant by abstinence forum is that "bouncing ideas" off abstinent folks will get you very little, as few of us will support returning to drinking. That is what I'm saying.

Thank you for your original post. It keeps things fresh for me.