OpioPhobe

Rising - I agree that when someone says that withdrawal is "all in your head" they are factually incorrect (unless you can get so anxious that you are going to **** yourself), and they are making a point that is irrelevant. A bad acid trip is "all in your head" too, but it doesn't really give much comfort.

All of that said, I do think that a significant portion is in your head regardless of dosage and length of time. It is extremely difficult on it's own, but the anticipation / fear can make it much worse. Also, think back to any of those times when you were kicking and failed at a quit. The moment that you make the call there is significant, immediate relief so long as you know that you are going to be sorted out in short order. The moment that you took the pill orally / snorted it would provide relief, but it would be impossible for it to have hit your system yet. IV is a different story where it actually does provide relief to body / mind immediately.

I am not trying to say that it is easy by any means. It sucks bad, but your mindset during withdrawal does have a significant impact in my opinion.


Snowflake - The whole idea of keeping the pills around just seems crazy to me. Keeping any easy access is just going to make things more difficult. I'm not saying that it is impossible. You could, in theory, do this over a long period of time with easy access, but even if you do it is only going to make it extremely difficult. Why make it more difficult than it needs to be? What would your work do if you had been in a car accident over the weekend?

Don't forget that your AV can rationalize anything in order to keep using. There is always something that makes each situation appear to be unique. It will all make perfect sense. I would have bet my life that it was real, and that there was some real justification for continuing to use. The only way that I was able to identify it was because it would end up with me continuing to use.

Don't make it easy to get tripped up. If you wake up in the morning feeling bad it would be so easy to say to yourself that you just can't make it to work like that. The fact is that you can do all kinds of things that seem impossible when you eliminate the choice.

FT

Snow,

I believe you. But I sure wish you'd flush the 500 pills, or however many there are actually hanging around your place.

My comment about your "addict brain" wasn't specific to you -- I use that term a lot to describe the part of ALL of us that drives the basal instincts apart from rational thought. Some people call it the "dinosaur brain" part of us.

I do believe your "addict brain" is the part of you who keeps the pills around. As I mentioned before -- either you are an opiate user or you aren't. Once you've truly self identified as a non-opiate-user, it will no longer make sense to keep the pills handy.

I hope this week goes well for you. I like the success stories and I'm rooting for you.

SweetDreams

Snowflake, now that you know you can go to work I would really encourage you to get rid of the pills. The thrill of being pill-free will wear off and the temptation to take just one or two will more than likely present itself soon. For me, those one or two turned into a 3.5 year relapse that led to a dosage more than twice where I left off. There's no reason for you to hang on to the pills you have or the refills you could get, you're done!

snowflake74

I will always have access to this drug, whether it's in my cabinet or about to be written on a prescription pad. I have to learn how to be clean regardless. I totally get the notion of not making it easy on me to relapse, but as of right now, I'm just not ready to throw them away. I believe I will eventually, the more clean time under my belt. Please don't be angry with me for not disposing of them just yet. BTW, it's somewhere near 150, not 500 lol.

Mamahawk

Wow snowflake you are stronger than me. I would have taken them in 2-3 days if not sooner. I could never get clean and have access. Never .

SweetDreams

Having them in your cabinet is a lot different than having to reestablish contact with a doctor who'll prescribe after you've said you're done and even that needs to end.

You don't have to label yourself an addict, just tell your MD that the pills aren't working for you and you need another plan. I have an MRI that could keep me in opiates for life, but I cut off ties to the doctors who were my sources: Snowflake, as much as you think you can manage having access, it's almost impossible for those of us who have abused our medications. If you're serious about quitting, get rid of the pills and end your relationship with the MD who prescribes, once you'e sober, you won't regret it.

pcm54

Hi, Snowflake,
I am so happy for you. Doesn't it feel good to know that you can drive without the fear of being pulled over and going to jail? And, yeah, music sounds awesome right about now!
I do think the Wellbutrin is kicking in and that is a good thing. I used that many years ago and am considering going back on it. I have fibromyalgia and should be taking Cymbalta for it but it is just too strong for me. The mania will probably mellow out soon. I also have insomnia and it causes me incredible pain. I am surprised I just never got on the pills. They always just made be sick-- all the way back to the qualude days. No wonder I am a drunk!!
Anyway, I don't want you to doubt or feel you need to defend your withdrawal then or in the next, well, days of your life. You were so brave and so candid.
I am going to tell you what I think. We have been friends for a while. And since the first time we chatted, I have included you in my daily prayers. I have prayed that you will be released from the stranglehold the pills had on you so you could be free to live a happy, glorious life full of grace and kindness.
So, it doesn't matter whether anyone else believes or not, but for me, my Higher Power is helping to work miracles in the lives of my friends.
Keep the channel open, my friend. Stay here to inspire us. Keep us full of good cheer and humor. You are a super guy and a treasure for all. Take good, good care and keep coming back!!
Chris

snowflake74

Thank you, pcm54. I have kept you in my prayer too and I thank you for your unconditional support.

You guys are totally right, and I would advise others to do the same thing. Flushing my current pills is an easier thought and will likely be doing so in the upcoming days. My rheumatologist knows from my last meeting that I wanted to try being off and he will be happy to know I succeeded. He prescribes my Neurontin though. I suppose I could ask my psychiatrist how he feels about taking over prescribing that, or my PCP. My PCP did not like, at all, the fact that my rheumie was prescribing those pain meds to me - I'm sure he would support me severing ties with him.

The ONLY thing I'm not willing to do is cancel or delete my prescription because I am too afraid of being flagged in the system as an addict. Not requesting a refill is one thing, but asking for the prescription to be cancelled could put my career in danger, and I'm just not willing to do that. My prescription expires on 9/23 and I will simply allow it to expire.

Right now I'm just taking it one day at a time. It felt really nice to wake up for work this morning and not feel horrible like I did every morning I was on the pills. I'm losing weight! Maybe I will be able to fit into my "skinny" bathing suit in August again after all! I am seeing how sobriety is making everything better and I like it!

doggonecarl

First and foremost, congrats on getting through the weekend.

Flagged as addict for cancelling a perscription? Where are you getting that from? Sounds like addict logic. Let your doctor cancel it, then. Keeping a perscription when you are trying to quit sounds like leaving your dealer's number on speed dial.

TiredEnough

Snow, I think the reason you are getting flak about the pills is the fact that many people who relapsed used your words nearly verbatim. Things like, "I need to prove to myself I can say no when they are around", "I will always have access so no need to ditch them", "I don't want to cause any problems with my doc, business, church, etc". Not saying you absolutely can't do it, but, you know

Elseware

Snow, I am curious about the specific reason you wanted to quit your pain med. Myself? My source dried up. And I was sick and tired of being sick and constipated. So I thought that was the right time to quit. My understanding is that you have a rheumatic condition. How is that part of things going?

My husband has a orthopedic problem that keeps him taking opiates. They are laying all over the house. I can't take his pills because he then would have to explain to his doctor where all the pills went. And he'd simply kill me. (Not really). It was fine for about 4 months and then I became depressed. Then the white knuckles started. I am clean but it has been a gargantuan struggle. It sure would be a lot easier on me if those pills were gone.

No, I don't feel good or happy to be off the pills. I just feel like I'd love to take a handful of pills and just swim off into opiate dreamland. I sure would urge you to cut off your source and get those pills out of your house. I feel for you because I think you may have some difficulties ahead. But maybe not. You sure detoxed easier than I did.

I have been seeing a psychiatrist about the depression with some improvement.

FT

Elsewhere you make a very good point. I think a lot of us here would not have quit opiates if we had a ready supply with no questions asked. In my case, I never bought off the street, but my increasing doses caused me to go to multiple doctors to get them. When even that wasn't enough, I started to struggle to keep enough pills around to keep me from getting sick. My only "high" of the day was the first thing in the morning and lasted under an hour. I'd reached the point of having to "ration" my pills to myself, and I would finish off my day's ration before noon, then "stealing" from my next day's ration. That snowballed each day to where I would run out before I could refill any of my scripts. So I went into withdrawal every two weeks (which was how many days I could refill at a time) because I ran out too early, sick for more and more days each cycle. Eventually, I was getting up earlier and earlier, waking up dopesick, feeling "good" for an hour after my first dose of the day, and struggling to make it to the next morning. When one of my pill docs got arrested for selling large quantities of opiates to addicts and trying to hide his profits from the IRS, I was suddenly without my MAIN supplier. I could NOT continue with the smaller scripts from the other docs. I'd be out in a couple of days, and not only that, I kept having to find new docs to tell my "pain story" to.

I felt like a hamster on a wheel, running myself into an oblivion with no end in sight.

100 "extra" pills? Hell, no, not in my "addict brain" world!

In my perfect "addict brain" world, I would just have increased and increased and increased my dose until infinity -- or death -- whichever came first.

So, Snow, lots of us could not do what you are doing. As to "access" -- ever heard the phrase, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?" Having pills inside your house is NOT the equivalent of being ABLE to get the pills. Using the latter criterion, ALL of us probably have "access" to our drug.

I do understand the alcohol analogy, by the way, and I made the comment earlier about what one might think if a "recovered" alcoholic had a well stocked wet bar in his home -- would anyone really believe he was anything but a "paused" drinker? Same holds true for an opiate addict with a bunch of opiate pills in his medicine cabinet.

The reason I understand the alcohol analogy is that I quit drinking well over 20 years ago while my husband was still a daily drinker of over a gallon of white wine. I didn't like his white wine as much as my cold duck (which I once drank two bottles of every day), but I would drink it in a pinch. But, my alcohol habit that spanned many years had to end, and when I finally actually really really quit, it didn't much matter to me what was in the house. Having said that, however, when my husband quit drinking a few months after I did (he didn't believe I'd succeed) it truly made my life easier not having alcohol in the house.

ANY method is a good method if it works for you. I'd like to see you coming back here for years to come to help others succeed with your own story of success!

Kris47

Congrats on 4 days clean!

Don't give it up!

Now the tough work begins.

Realize that you have that av that will haunt you for some time.

Use all the tools that you can to keep moving forward.

Adnamaeel

Snowflake, I'm proud of you for what you've accomplished. I think you're doing great.

Regarding quitting while having plenty of pills on hand, that's exactly what I did, and it worked for me. Every time I ran out, or got close to running out I would go into a feast or famine mindset, and as soon as I got more, would celebrate by taking way more than I usually did. I felt like I had to have them around to keep this mindset at bay, and to reclaim my power over myself and my actions. By making it a choice to not take them, I strengthened my resolve and my confidence in myself. I really think having access helped my process.
I didn't keep them for long, but getting rid of them was a symbolic gesture for me, not a fear based and desperate one. I wanted to signify the end of that chapter of my life.

Snowflake, I have so much faith in you. I hope work goes really well.

Elseware

Adnmaeel, that is a very interesting way of looking at things. I really hadn't taken responsibility for the fact that pills are readily available to me and I choose not to take them. I should give myself some credit for that. Hmmm. Food for thought.

needingabreak

How was your first day back to work? I am so happy to see you are doing well. I think the Wellbutrin has probably helped some in your tapering and going off the meds. It kicks up your endorphins so may be helping by feeding those receptors. I hope you can come here soon and tell us you have thrown out the pills and have conquered this terrible addiction. You know I wish you all the best. 4 days is awesome!

LoveMeNow

This thread is the exact opposite of anything believable I have read, seen and was told by reliable recovering addicts. I struggle with what I have been reading.

Best of luck to all those truly drug free.

Adnamaeel

LoveMeNow, that was rather mean spirited, and not especially necessary.
If I had believed much of what I've seen, heard, and read, I'd still be on drugs.
Sometimes thinking for yourself and following your own path are the ONLY roads to liberation.

Dee74

Lets try and keep our comments helpful constructive and respectful.

If, for whatever reason, that's too big an ask,there's literally hundreds of other threads to post on.

Thanks

D

Adnamaeel

Uh, sorry Dee.