fini

bemyself,

sorry to hear about this.
thing is, there will be always be an "all because of..." in the screwy alcoholic thinking. what was true for me and what i didn't really see until after i quit was that "my truth" was there:I couldn't stand those thoughts and feelings just as you say.

fact was, i could learn to. didn't have to like it, but i could do it.
so can you.
and yeah, the acceptance and courage thing...nobody says that part is easy, do they?

haha, sail on as if your post weren't there. fat chance!

DaveyT

Bemyself

Hey these lapses are all a part of kicking the addiction. The important thing is that you have decided not to beat yourself up too badly and are looking forward instead of backwards.

Stay at it, and good luck.

RobbyRobot

Having a drink is certainly part of an addiction for alcohol. Having a drink is not part of a recovery process, imo. Drinking is always 100% addiction and even then still a choice made. Recovery and being recovered is absolutely not having a drink for any reason. Recovery "process" and a few drinks here and there is not recovery. Recovery is zero tolerance for alcohol for whatever reason.

Anything less is simply taking a break between drinks. Its always about choices made.

soberlicious

Bemyself...I hear you loud and clear. I do the same thing sometimes, the worry. I too am a renter. A divorced single mom of triplets. I did not make some of the choices that put me where I am today, some of those choices were made for me. I can literally watch myself circling the drain sometimes...and I refuse to let it go down like that. I give myself the straight talk..."sh*t or get off the pot, 'licious...those big girl britches aren't going to wear themselves."

The "never drinking again" thing has been my saving grace (I realize "saving grace" is an odd thing for a nontheist to say). I wrestle with a lot of things in life, but drinking is not one of them. It only makes hard harder.

Staying off the booze is not going to make all your other troubles disappear, that's for sure. But it will indeed allow you to look at and manage difficulties in a whole different way.

Stay with it. Stay with us. Strive on with diligence. xo

Nonsensical

True, but struggling and tapering from a high rate of drinking to a lower rate of drinking to NOT drinking is quite common. My bluebirds tell me that anytime someone with a maladaptive appetite for alcohol wants a drink, but refuses to take it, something positive has happened. Even if it wasn't technically recovery yet.

RobbyRobot

I can understand from personal experience that one's rate of drinking can have a purposeful variance. Also from personal experience though, such variance really did not allow for creating an easier final end to my addiction to alcohol. Reduced intake certainly would make a particular detox less troublesome, but my addiction itself was unchanged by my having one single drink or having a thousand drinks. Alcoholics have crossed a line, and that is the way of it thereafter. There is no such idea for the alcoholic "a little is better then a lot" that even remotely is recovery whatsoever. Certainly more alcohol one would think causes more "damage", but not always so, since the "damage done" has wide variance between individuals. Some people are less or more susceptible to alcohol addiction right from the start, and so intake is not really all that important in coming to terms with addiction.

For those guys who are not alcoholic, then tapered drinking makes sense. They are still on the "good side" of the line. For the alcoholic, it makes no remarkable difference of any importance in their addiction or recovery, imo.

Having a hard or easy detox is not indicative of discerning success in permanent sobriety. Its just not that simple, for the alcoholic.

Taking breaks between drinking experiences, and falsely calling those breaks success in recovery, is as well a common misconception of properly living a truly happy and successful recovered lifestyle.

Nonsensical

Well-articulated as always. However, you have failed to convince me that a day of elective non-drinking for an alcoholic is not a positive thing.

soberlicious

Doesn't matter if you call it "recovery" or not. It is better than it was.

Less is definitely more.

I would agree that tapering is not always the best choice of strategies and is simply the beast hanging on for dear life. But it takes some people more time on the mat before they are able to wrestle control back from the beast. Once they are back on top and remember what that feels like, it becomes easy. It was that flip that did it for me. After that, applying a perpetual arm bar takes almost no effort. Prior to that for me, there was a bit of round and round and sweat and fancy footwork.

Time to make some lemonade. What else can one do?

RobbyRobot

I'm in agreement, as long as we call all that "on the mat" process addiction process and not recovery process. I'll also add this to my original reply: For me the recovery process is measured from the point of the last drink. Everything before the last drink is total addiction process. Everything from present back to the last drink is recovery process.

I like lemonade to no end.



I can respect our differences, no problemo

friskme

I can totally relate to your ideas, but in a different way as well. Sometimes it is inspiring to hear and see people reaching out and wanting/needing help. Being a private person, I tend to not do this. I need some encouragement every day; and I like to give some myself. Sometimes I don't want to hear negativity cuz I am trying so hard to get rid of mine; and sometimes hearing or seeing it pushes me forward to be more positive. I guess we should just be tolerant and either offer positive feedback or move on.

jkb

Well Non-
just to throw my two cents in here about positivity... I believe it is vital in recovery. My beast really likes to play the "I am depressed, life sucks game". I refuse to partake in that game because without any doubt I know where it leads me. Just read my thread. It was: I am depressed, now I am more depressed and now I am a loser who drank. I dont have a new thread but it would read: Maybe I am depressed but not dwelling on it and I am still sober.
As to the second part of the thread when does "recovery" begin... I think counting days since the very last drink is a bunch of bull**it. For me ONLY my recovery began when I decided to change my life. That was on 2/4/13. I wanted a better life and knew a big part of that was not drinking. I also knew I had to "throw on my big girl pants" (as soberlicious put it) in a lot of other aspects of my life. No more lying, cheating, avoiding OR drinking. Yeah I screwed up and drank but, I did not fall back into all my old ways. So, FOR ME 2/4/13 is a very important day where as 3/13/13 is a "true" sobriety day. Just my thought. There is so much great info on here... great thread.

soberlicious

Well yeah you can call the "on the mat" process whatever you want to call it. I like to call it "the on the mat process". I'm not a big fan of the term "recovery" as it is used today in terms of ending addiction. This process of wrestling can lasts years as we know ....OR it can be over in an instant.

jkb

Yep that is the key for me

RobbyRobot

Yeah, life experience speaks for itself when defining whatever across the board when quitting addictions.

bemyself

Indeed it does RR....as for me, well, despite my earnest efforts, I'm still in what SoberL calls the 'on the mat process'. If it could've been 'over in an instant'..........'OH, Blessings!'

The trouble with 'instants': well, they change. We (well, 'I', speaking only for myself) also change with them. Sometimes for the better - e.g. I had hundreds of sober days, more than drinking days, this past year and 3 months. Sometimes for the worse - I've picked up and drunk for some of those hundreds of days.

I know that many people including those here on SR have experienced those magical 'instants', after which they never drink again. Regardless of programme, technique, tips, strategies, tools etc. And of course with any or each of those things.

My instants seem to be too fleeting. Much like life itself. One minute, I'm great; next minute (literally and metaphorically), I'm not. One minute, I have no - zilch, nada, zero - wish or need to drink. The next, as it were, I do. Sometimes, I do....and other times, I don't.

It's like a friggin' Zen koan to me, and I'm the sort who'll never really accept the unknowing-ness of 'how to Be, Sober', in every instance / instant.

soberlicious

Bemyself,
What if it could be over when you say it's over?

SoberKnitter

If not drinking is dependent upon not wanting to drink, then I think that is a set-up for failure, and a confusion between you (the one who looks out for your well-being) and your AV. You probably never have a wish - and certainly never a need - to drink. Your beast always needs to drink; it just stops poking you every once in a while.

I'm having times where drinking doesn't cross my mind, but much of the time the AV is screaming for it. Fortunately for me, I'm the one in charge. Sobriety doesn't always feel good, but it's always what's best for me.

Cleopatra1

oh fgs,,i think we are going round and round in circles ere xxx,just lighten up evryone,,all these big words and wikapedia comments,,come on,,be easy and lets make this more fun eh????
i know we all love to get deep,,but come on ,,sometimes we all just wanna giggle and a kick up the bum???? all this is basically just a big circle ,,think bout it yeh??

i had a wee slip[ up in jan,,and boy did i get slated for it,,lots of pms calling me a fraud!!!!

gee ,,if we can all get thru each day without a drink,,who gives a **** bout how and who told us,our av,our mother, our friggin kidsx or what gave us the friggin inspiration?? its us right? its all down to us yeh????
US , on our own,,we are our own universe,,we are our own doing,,timshel mofos ,,timshel xxx
ok
sorry to rant,,just had a bad tough week,,and thought "hey i'll let it all out here,,cos you lot dont mind,lol" ,,,its either this or i eat far too much choccie xx im struggling this week,,nrly caved in,,its been hard xx
but


hey,,i love ya but ,,,come on,,lets have some easy things for me ,,cos im a thicky,please?????
lol lol xxx

omg im addicted to the lols again ,,,,,OMG

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