what about the beauty?
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,836
Yes, at the very beginning it felt good... but not for long. Before I knew it, one glass a day had become one bottle a day. 
I don't miss anything about it. My life is better and simpler without it.
I don't miss anything about it. My life is better and simpler without it.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 710
Originally Posted by fini 
interesting examples.
i see it differently.
my daughters may well have been conceived when drinking led to drunken sex...and while they are, luckily, healthy decent sane people, i’d never say this is an example of how beauty came from alcohol.
in fact, it is one of my deep regrets that they were likely conceived in the ugliness of drunken sex rather than a sober, loving, mutually present act.
the beauty came despite the booze.
i see it differently.
my daughters may well have been conceived when drinking led to drunken sex...and while they are, luckily, healthy decent sane people, i’d never say this is an example of how beauty came from alcohol.
in fact, it is one of my deep regrets that they were likely conceived in the ugliness of drunken sex rather than a sober, loving, mutually present act.
the beauty came despite the booze.
My father died suddenly when I was almost 20. He was SO HEALTHY they said (never smoke or drank) that all his organs were donated. HIs death led to many of my struggles (real life ones and mental health) that I tried to mitigate with alcohol.
I had to change my life dramatically. I would not have the kids I have today if my father had not died because my life would have been different. Some people probably owed their life to his organs. There is a silver lining to almost every **** happening. I will never think in terms of the beauty of my father dying.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,606
Originally Posted by crazychef
Kind of at the same point of not knowing right or wrong of alcohol. I know it hurts me in the long run, but my life, job, and career working on yachts alcohol is always there. I left the us in 2005 and have lived mostly in the Caribbean the last 10 years. But other countries and Islands as well. Just went to a funeral from an island friend that his liver failed and he died. I lasted a week, got a job call, sold a motorcycle today, enough of a reason in my head to buy a bottle of rum. Not going crazy, just a rum drink. But for the first time it doesn't scare me that I know the rum is killing me. It's the fact that I know it and don't really care
I've played it cool before as a drinker too - all gotta die sometime right? - but I figure behind every I don't give a damn statement is a cry for help.
I nearly died one night in 2007.
The abstract idea of dying is a lot different to the reality of knowing your drinking is actually and actively killing you and feeling the fear it may be too late to save your life.
I got my life back. No reason you can't too Chef.
D
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Big City
Posts: 3,895
Ambivalence disguised as nostalgia wrapped in the robe of self-deceit. I would only agree that for some alcohol can be a release, a pleasure and provide some good. For us here though, it's a destroyer of worlds.
As you say, it's the cause of 100% of your life's problems. I'm a father, and I wonder if you really got the truth from your children what you would learn about their feelings regarding your alcohol use. Hope you can come to terms with your ambivalence sooner than later.
As you say, it's the cause of 100% of your life's problems. I'm a father, and I wonder if you really got the truth from your children what you would learn about their feelings regarding your alcohol use. Hope you can come to terms with your ambivalence sooner than later.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,469
I am not one to glorify drinking. If I start to do that then I would fantasize about drinking and that is more of a nightmare to myself.
As long as I remeber WHY I am not drinking, nothing else matters.
As long as I remeber WHY I am not drinking, nothing else matters.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,122
It’s wonderful how you can see so much positive as well as the negative. After all the abuse I see and hear of children growing up with addicts for parents I’m glad to read how much you love them and how grateful you are to have them in your life. Thank god you got sober!
You can be part of their lives as they continue to grow and possibly have kids of their own where you then get to be a healthy grandparent. You get to live a long happy life enjoying your family. That is the true beauty in spite of your addiction to alcohol.
I wish I could have had at least one caring adult during my childhood. Now that I have my own little bundle of joy and I wish she could have grandparents in her life. I was loaded when I planned to conceive my daughter. I was hungover when I took a pregnancy test and discovered my angel growing in my body (interestingly enough on mother’s day). I quit finally right there. She deserves a sober and happy mom. Writing this has given me pause and almost tears as I think how reckless and selfish I was.
If I didn’t have a drinking problem I don’t think I would have rationally decided to have a baby. But I do not attribute alcohol to the beauty that is my daughter. She is in spite of it.
Some good things happened while you were drunk or drinking but I wouldn’t attribute the beauty of your life for the role alcohol played in those moments. Instead I would cherish how lucky you are and how wonderful it is for you to continue to experience more beautiful moments your sober life has provided you.
My hat is off to you for being such a great dad. Keep it up!
You can be part of their lives as they continue to grow and possibly have kids of their own where you then get to be a healthy grandparent. You get to live a long happy life enjoying your family. That is the true beauty in spite of your addiction to alcohol.
I wish I could have had at least one caring adult during my childhood. Now that I have my own little bundle of joy and I wish she could have grandparents in her life. I was loaded when I planned to conceive my daughter. I was hungover when I took a pregnancy test and discovered my angel growing in my body (interestingly enough on mother’s day). I quit finally right there. She deserves a sober and happy mom. Writing this has given me pause and almost tears as I think how reckless and selfish I was.
If I didn’t have a drinking problem I don’t think I would have rationally decided to have a baby. But I do not attribute alcohol to the beauty that is my daughter. She is in spite of it.
Some good things happened while you were drunk or drinking but I wouldn’t attribute the beauty of your life for the role alcohol played in those moments. Instead I would cherish how lucky you are and how wonderful it is for you to continue to experience more beautiful moments your sober life has provided you.
My hat is off to you for being such a great dad. Keep it up!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by Callas
Yes, I can relate to what you say. I had a good time with alcohol. Unfortunately it ended up at a stage where the negative outweighed the positive. It almost became a mathematical exercise. I can live without the fun of drinking but I can’t live with the horror of withdrawal. And that is that.
The thing with nostalgia too is it might well have been better when you first started drinking and you hardly get hangovers or the lovely accompanying anxiety and depression. The progressive nature of it is cruel as it demands more and more and pays off less.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 42
I can romanticize alcohol too. I think about times that I spent with my wife early in our relationship and how we drank, we danced, and we got together with our friends and hung out until the wee hours of the morning. It was genuinely fun! The only issue was that I am an alcoholic and that the warm and fuzzy memories tend to be surrounded by absolutely terrible times in my life as well.
I don't like to think about the times that I woke up and panicked trying to figure out if I had made an ass of myself the night. I would panic as I checked texts and try to be coy with my wife to see if she was pissed at me. I don't like to think about becoming an emotional mess with my friends and throwing a bottle into the wall while blacked out. I don't like to think about the time I passed out while watching my young daughter and woke up to her screaming in her crib. I don't like to think about the fact that days before my son was born my wife told me that she wished that I was still passed out drunk so that I had missed his birth (that one was the last time I drank around 5 years ago.)
I have a lot more memories like those and the crazy thing is that I have way more memories of the fun times than I do the the bad times. The truth is that the fun times would still have been good without me drinking and the bad memories never would have happened in the first place. I just know that when I stopped drinking the fun times have continued and those moments that I absolutely regret seemed to have stopped (except those ones that are caused by being a normal, flawed human being
). My relationship with my wife has healed and grown in ways I never saw coming. I have so many incredible friends in my life that completely support my sober lifestyle. I have found way more beauty in life sober than i ever did while drinking.
I don't like to think about the times that I woke up and panicked trying to figure out if I had made an ass of myself the night. I would panic as I checked texts and try to be coy with my wife to see if she was pissed at me. I don't like to think about becoming an emotional mess with my friends and throwing a bottle into the wall while blacked out. I don't like to think about the time I passed out while watching my young daughter and woke up to her screaming in her crib. I don't like to think about the fact that days before my son was born my wife told me that she wished that I was still passed out drunk so that I had missed his birth (that one was the last time I drank around 5 years ago.)
I have a lot more memories like those and the crazy thing is that I have way more memories of the fun times than I do the the bad times. The truth is that the fun times would still have been good without me drinking and the bad memories never would have happened in the first place. I just know that when I stopped drinking the fun times have continued and those moments that I absolutely regret seemed to have stopped (except those ones that are caused by being a normal, flawed human being
). My relationship with my wife has healed and grown in ways I never saw coming. I have so many incredible friends in my life that completely support my sober lifestyle. I have found way more beauty in life sober than i ever did while drinking.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Sounds like you are trying to find meaning in those lost years. It is natural to want to dive deep into the time that was stolen. All of my twenties were gone, nothing good came from them, but good things did happen to me at certain points. The I lost it all. So the way I see it, I can still see the brief moments of happiness I had, but it is in a sad way, because Alcohol destroyed it all, robbed me of it and left me suicidal and alone.
So yes, I agree that there is some beauty in life's worse and lowest moments, and I see you trying to appreciate those, but you now that you have let it out, let that go and remember where you ended up because of it. Here, seeking help and looking for meaning on robbed time. You don't have to look anymore, you WILL have meaning in your life moving forward as long as you stay sober.
So yes, I agree that there is some beauty in life's worse and lowest moments, and I see you trying to appreciate those, but you now that you have let it out, let that go and remember where you ended up because of it. Here, seeking help and looking for meaning on robbed time. You don't have to look anymore, you WILL have meaning in your life moving forward as long as you stay sober.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Side note - hey Chef - don't I remember you from awhile ago? Kinda sharing the same stuff? Glad you are back and hope you can look at things differently this time.
One thought to the OP/discussion:
Somewhere I heard the phrase that alcoholism was a "peculiar gift" - it resonated perfectly with me. A gift you never ask for- but one that can give you a much better life than you could have imagined if you ultimately get into recovery.
Some might not jibe with the lines in the BB that say "I never thought that a nice guy like me would turn out to be an alcoholic- but it turns out it was the best thing that ever happened to me." He says this with the beauty found in...sobriety and recovery.
I think "beauty" is the word tripping me (most of us?) up with the OP. I have enormous gratitude for being an alcoholic and the kind of life I have now, which essentially is that while i was a good and loving etc person before my alcoholism took hold of me- I'm a far better, kinder, contributing and empathetic person in the world now. But beauty in the drinking part? No.
One thought to the OP/discussion:
Somewhere I heard the phrase that alcoholism was a "peculiar gift" - it resonated perfectly with me. A gift you never ask for- but one that can give you a much better life than you could have imagined if you ultimately get into recovery.
Some might not jibe with the lines in the BB that say "I never thought that a nice guy like me would turn out to be an alcoholic- but it turns out it was the best thing that ever happened to me." He says this with the beauty found in...sobriety and recovery.
I think "beauty" is the word tripping me (most of us?) up with the OP. I have enormous gratitude for being an alcoholic and the kind of life I have now, which essentially is that while i was a good and loving etc person before my alcoholism took hold of me- I'm a far better, kinder, contributing and empathetic person in the world now. But beauty in the drinking part? No.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
I concur with the danger of romancing or romanticizing (if you life a few more syllables) alcohol.
We refer to it in AA as "cunning, baffling and powerful" for a reason.
Some people also add the word "patient" to that list.
I see a fair amount of alcohol (going to sporting events, for example), but it doesn't draw me back into wanting that hellish life I had before I asked for help.
And no one who does drink that has any more enjoyment of life than I do.
There is no part of it I want back.
I hope the OP tries to work a program of recovery.
I don't think that thinking about the "beauty" of alcohol and drinking is part of any of them I am aware of.
We refer to it in AA as "cunning, baffling and powerful" for a reason.
Some people also add the word "patient" to that list.
I see a fair amount of alcohol (going to sporting events, for example), but it doesn't draw me back into wanting that hellish life I had before I asked for help.
And no one who does drink that has any more enjoyment of life than I do.
There is no part of it I want back.
I hope the OP tries to work a program of recovery.
I don't think that thinking about the "beauty" of alcohol and drinking is part of any of them I am aware of.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 517
It's kinda like when someone flails around in an abusive relationship
"but I love him"
"Your face is covered in bruises"
"Yes I know, but he's not like that really and he said sorry and I believe him this time"
"You said that last time"
"I knew you wouldn't understand, I love him"
"Yeah I don't understand"
"but I love him"
"Your face is covered in bruises"
"Yes I know, but he's not like that really and he said sorry and I believe him this time"
"You said that last time"
"I knew you wouldn't understand, I love him"
"Yeah I don't understand"
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Warwick RI
Posts: 1,276
Alcohol definetly had a time and place in my life...but not anymore....many good things happened while I was under the influence...but as I age..the good things became less and less...
I also give alcohol all the credit for devastating my family and my health....and no longer will let it be part of my life....Alcohol is not an OPTION for me anymore...
That was then..this is NOW.
I also give alcohol all the credit for devastating my family and my health....and no longer will let it be part of my life....Alcohol is not an OPTION for me anymore...
That was then..this is NOW.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 25
i thank everyone for their comments, I have read each one and considered them all.
The use of the word beauty seems to have been of note. So, while I as noted in the original post, am not pretending to be anything but a deeply flawed man. But I will explain why I chose to use the word beauty.
not one of you commented on NRF2. Eat your broccoli raw. In my original post, I noted that I was a nerd. For example, the things that are enticing to me are pointless to everybody else. Im not better than anybody, thats for sure, but I am, as I said, a nerd. The reason I chose beauty is simple, there would have been a 100% chance, or so, of me making freinds and getting some if I'd have gone to a bar tonight. Instead I sat alone. I have actually never figured out a way to make friends without the idiot oil. And nobody cares about the 10 studies I read tonight. Its the only conduit I have ever found into everybody elses world.
The use of the word beauty seems to have been of note. So, while I as noted in the original post, am not pretending to be anything but a deeply flawed man. But I will explain why I chose to use the word beauty.
not one of you commented on NRF2. Eat your broccoli raw. In my original post, I noted that I was a nerd. For example, the things that are enticing to me are pointless to everybody else. Im not better than anybody, thats for sure, but I am, as I said, a nerd. The reason I chose beauty is simple, there would have been a 100% chance, or so, of me making freinds and getting some if I'd have gone to a bar tonight. Instead I sat alone. I have actually never figured out a way to make friends without the idiot oil. And nobody cares about the 10 studies I read tonight. Its the only conduit I have ever found into everybody elses world.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 25
btw the phrase idiot oil comes from a player from the vikings I met some years back, it stuck in my mind.
If anybody is curious, all drugs, and all alcohol is is one hell of a drug, are about neurotransmitters. Addiction just becomes the simplest route to the biggest neurotransmitter payoff. The answer to getting over it is finding some way to get more neurotransmitters from something else.
If anybody is curious, all drugs, and all alcohol is is one hell of a drug, are about neurotransmitters. Addiction just becomes the simplest route to the biggest neurotransmitter payoff. The answer to getting over it is finding some way to get more neurotransmitters from something else.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: England
Posts: 645
I am not surprised that nobody commented on NRF2 as this is a forum for recovery from addiction not for discussion of complex biochemistry. I would not expect a response if I mentioned the contribution of R.B.Woodward to the field of organic synthesis, something I am interested in but I'd be surprised if anybody else here has an opinion on. We all like different things but what brings us all here is the one thing we have in common, a desire to recover from our addictions. There must be biochem discussion forums out there where there are folks who are very interested in NRF2. At the very least, the authors of the 10 papers you read must be interested in NRF2!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,666
I think it’s great that you see the beauty!!
in my own experience, it worked better for my sobriety and for the vastly increased beauty to see that past beauty as the beauty in my life DESPITE alcohol...... not because of it.
‘WOW! Even though I spent decades abusing alcohol, I still kept my career, have these beautiful children, made it to sobriety alive!!’
That sort of thing.
for me, flirting with looking at alcohol as a positive was a great way to bring me back to justifying my long-held belief I just needed to ‘moderate’.
which, for me, never worked....
sobriety has held so much greater, more present, more lasting beauty....
in my own experience, it worked better for my sobriety and for the vastly increased beauty to see that past beauty as the beauty in my life DESPITE alcohol...... not because of it.
‘WOW! Even though I spent decades abusing alcohol, I still kept my career, have these beautiful children, made it to sobriety alive!!’
That sort of thing.
for me, flirting with looking at alcohol as a positive was a great way to bring me back to justifying my long-held belief I just needed to ‘moderate’.
which, for me, never worked....
sobriety has held so much greater, more present, more lasting beauty....
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Madrid, Spain.
Posts: 172
I had some great times with alcohol. I also had bad times, some of them really awful. When the bad times started to outnumber the good, it was time to stop. My life is better without it, that's just a simple fact.
I think anybody who sees alcohol as 100% bad probably still has some issues to resolve.
I think anybody who sees alcohol as 100% bad probably still has some issues to resolve.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 412
Good things can come out of bad decisions and habits. It is not the alcohol that made life beautiful but did put you in certain places that led to good things. If i head to the casino and bet on roulette and win money does that mean it was a +EV or expected value decision. Obviously not a good decision money wise despite winning money. Eventually if you gamble enough with booze you can suffer some horrible consequences. You could also be a blacked out mess and live till 100 with no health issues, life is a gamble but you could put odds better in your favor depending on your behavior. Sounds like you have been fortunate up to this point but really only takes one night of stupidity to really ruin your life. You sound exactly like a friend of mine who went to CAL tech minus the kids. He has 4 dui's anxiety issues and says he met all the people he knows due to alcohol and says he is not sure whether or not alcohol has a negative impact on his life and everyone but him can see that is has. I don't know you personally but back to your question, yes many beautiful things can result from bad events to take things to an extreme look at war.
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