If I was a drunk, I wouldn't have to deal with this.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by pacoloco 
dear ao.
I watched my father drink to death too. He had a extremely toxic relation with his mother. He died in our house, in a pool of his own blood, before the rescue arrived. It was very sad and still is to this very day, and probably will never pass.
As sad as it is, i learned from that. I like to think of myself like an enhanced version of my father. As that, i avoid repeating his mistakes in life. I think his main mistake was not walking away from his mother. He felt responsible for her, despite of all the evil and insanity that lives inside that sick woman. It did not work for him. At all.
Well, after he died, my grandma turned the cannon on my direction. She made my life miserable for some years. Then i did what my father couldn't do: I walked away from that sick lady. It really works.
It's simple but not too easy though, it's a kind of art i guess. I do not abandon the person, but i walk away and let go. I care about her, i worry, but i realized i just do not have the power to solve all that crap and insanity, you know. I just can't. It's like “know your limits”, you know. So i wash my hands and take care of myself. It seems selfish but it's just about self-preservation. Even survival.
Stay strong, pal.
I watched my father drink to death too. He had a extremely toxic relation with his mother. He died in our house, in a pool of his own blood, before the rescue arrived. It was very sad and still is to this very day, and probably will never pass.
As sad as it is, i learned from that. I like to think of myself like an enhanced version of my father. As that, i avoid repeating his mistakes in life. I think his main mistake was not walking away from his mother. He felt responsible for her, despite of all the evil and insanity that lives inside that sick woman. It did not work for him. At all.
Well, after he died, my grandma turned the cannon on my direction. She made my life miserable for some years. Then i did what my father couldn't do: I walked away from that sick lady. It really works.
It's simple but not too easy though, it's a kind of art i guess. I do not abandon the person, but i walk away and let go. I care about her, i worry, but i realized i just do not have the power to solve all that crap and insanity, you know. I just can't. It's like “know your limits”, you know. So i wash my hands and take care of myself. It seems selfish but it's just about self-preservation. Even survival.
Stay strong, pal.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by alphaomega
so much incredible advice here. Thank you all. So much.
I'm all of the halt. Every bit of it. And i'm hungry bc i'm on a damn diet. But i decided to hit the brownies. Hard.
It's the lesser of two evils.
I'll try again to eat better tomorrow.
Now, we feast. I'm eating my emotions and i'll deal with that later.
Xo ao
I'm all of the halt. Every bit of it. And i'm hungry bc i'm on a damn diet. But i decided to hit the brownies. Hard.
It's the lesser of two evils.
I'll try again to eat better tomorrow.
Now, we feast. I'm eating my emotions and i'll deal with that later.
Xo ao
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Hi Alpha.
There's nothing more valuable in my life, or that I want from life, than my sobriety.
One of the basic and more meaningful milestones in sobriety, in life, is for us to learn to no longer willingly submit to familiar, destructive roles and behaviors, and to find and create healthier ways with which to engage our conflicts. I think that much of the despair in human history can be attributed to not changing self-destructive thinking and behaviors. We are experts at living as victims, but there are some skills that simply aren't worth all the pain and suffering.
There is "normal" pain and suffering, and then there is pain and suffering of our own creation which, for some, amounts to a lifetime's worth of it. Each time I collaborate with destructive thinking and behaviors, I forfeit my right to complain about my misery. Where I am in life is no one's responsibility. I am where I am due to circumstances and, most definitely, my own choices and my own actions. This was at one time a startling revelation to me. The result has been that I can no longer live peacefully among the shadows I created, and that I can walk freely among the living. We are always free to choose. To deny this is to live a life that is predominantly based on bad faith. A dead end that is fated from the very beginning.
It takes hard work, pain, and a continued willingness to suffer in order to live a meaningful life. The price is often high, but the rewards are abundant, and not only because they help us to keep on living. The final act of life is the only known way to avoid pain and suffering. Drinking only prolongs and widens the agony, and places a more or less permanent stamp on our despair.
As is customary for you, you've done a great job, not only by reaching out, by taking in what you've received. This is no small matter, one that you can use as a lynch pin for your continuing sobriety. If all goes well, this will not be your final challenge, your final crossroads in life. But it's time to move on.
People here seem to love you and use you for inspiration. In all my years, personally and professionally, I have known no greater power than that of people helping each other. Whatever comes in second place is far behind.
Stay together.
There's nothing more valuable in my life, or that I want from life, than my sobriety.
One of the basic and more meaningful milestones in sobriety, in life, is for us to learn to no longer willingly submit to familiar, destructive roles and behaviors, and to find and create healthier ways with which to engage our conflicts. I think that much of the despair in human history can be attributed to not changing self-destructive thinking and behaviors. We are experts at living as victims, but there are some skills that simply aren't worth all the pain and suffering.
There is "normal" pain and suffering, and then there is pain and suffering of our own creation which, for some, amounts to a lifetime's worth of it. Each time I collaborate with destructive thinking and behaviors, I forfeit my right to complain about my misery. Where I am in life is no one's responsibility. I am where I am due to circumstances and, most definitely, my own choices and my own actions. This was at one time a startling revelation to me. The result has been that I can no longer live peacefully among the shadows I created, and that I can walk freely among the living. We are always free to choose. To deny this is to live a life that is predominantly based on bad faith. A dead end that is fated from the very beginning.
It takes hard work, pain, and a continued willingness to suffer in order to live a meaningful life. The price is often high, but the rewards are abundant, and not only because they help us to keep on living. The final act of life is the only known way to avoid pain and suffering. Drinking only prolongs and widens the agony, and places a more or less permanent stamp on our despair.
As is customary for you, you've done a great job, not only by reaching out, by taking in what you've received. This is no small matter, one that you can use as a lynch pin for your continuing sobriety. If all goes well, this will not be your final challenge, your final crossroads in life. But it's time to move on.
People here seem to love you and use you for inspiration. In all my years, personally and professionally, I have known no greater power than that of people helping each other. Whatever comes in second place is far behind.
Stay together.
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,887
The more I reflect on all of this, the clearer it is becoming.
The night my sister died, we were fighting. She opted to stay out late and she upset our mother because she did. My mother was drunk at the time and I was so upset with my sister for making it all that much worse. She wound up coming home, called out to me, and. I ignored her. She was drinking that night and must have decided to take a Darvon. Not even enough to kill her. Her autopsy report showed she was just below the threshold to OD. Just tried to block out her mothers fury.
The morning my father died of a heart attack, I was supposed to go with him and my mother on a business trip. But I decided to stay home with my then 3 year old. He begged me to go. I refused.
She was relentless to him on that trip. Arguing over their lack of decent accommodations. He went to the bar to drink profuse amounts of gin with his business partners and friends. She was screaming at him the morning he died.
Then she screamed at him AS he was dying.
So I suppose I have this guilt I carry that I could have saved my sister. And my father.
And I should somehow save my mother in a sick retribution of sorts.
So somewhere along the line, subconsciously, I must have made a deal with myself that I would save her instead of myself as a punishment.
Ain't gonna happen.
The night my sister died, we were fighting. She opted to stay out late and she upset our mother because she did. My mother was drunk at the time and I was so upset with my sister for making it all that much worse. She wound up coming home, called out to me, and. I ignored her. She was drinking that night and must have decided to take a Darvon. Not even enough to kill her. Her autopsy report showed she was just below the threshold to OD. Just tried to block out her mothers fury.
The morning my father died of a heart attack, I was supposed to go with him and my mother on a business trip. But I decided to stay home with my then 3 year old. He begged me to go. I refused.
She was relentless to him on that trip. Arguing over their lack of decent accommodations. He went to the bar to drink profuse amounts of gin with his business partners and friends. She was screaming at him the morning he died.
Then she screamed at him AS he was dying.
So I suppose I have this guilt I carry that I could have saved my sister. And my father.
And I should somehow save my mother in a sick retribution of sorts.
So somewhere along the line, subconsciously, I must have made a deal with myself that I would save her instead of myself as a punishment.
Ain't gonna happen.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,913
AO, I am so sorry. That is a lot of "guilt" for you to carry around, but it truly isn't your guilt to carry. Nothing you could have done in either of those cases would have prevented what happened.
Please don't feel like you owe your mother anything because of what happened in the past. You can't save her any more than you could have saved your sister or your father. She has put herself in the situation she is in and has thwarted any attempt on your part to help her...and you HAVE tried to help her. Her issues are hers to manage. Don't let her drag you down with her. (((HUGS)))
Please don't feel like you owe your mother anything because of what happened in the past. You can't save her any more than you could have saved your sister or your father. She has put herself in the situation she is in and has thwarted any attempt on your part to help her...and you HAVE tried to help her. Her issues are hers to manage. Don't let her drag you down with her. (((HUGS)))
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Since there is such strong disagreement about the right answer...
I just wanted to second what Sober Leigh said -- if you are in the US -- if she has Medicare or Medicaid and you get her the hospital for her back and they play ball, social services will help get her in a rehab, which might actually help with her physical problems, and then home care and physical therapy at home afterwards a few hours a day.
Or if she has resources, paid home care.
I have stalked your posts for a long time and we both know that you should not risk what you have for anything, definitely not your mom.
But it would be great if you could let it go a bit if possible -- I rad a great post by someone who had issues with his mom and hated her visits because she was toxic and critical, but she did the same thing to his sister, who took it in stride and said "oh mom".
Since then I have been trying to do a lot of "oh mom" ing to various people with varying degrees of success, but even the attempt has made me see how nuts these folks are and sounds like your mom might even be worse than my ex.
I don't want to be overly simplistic, but as a mom, isn't your daughter worth so mush more than your mother, and you can't have a real relationship with her if you drink, just saying.
Guilt over toxic mother, versus guilt over daughter -- I think we know who wins that coin toss.
Not easy, not easy at all.
I just wanted to second what Sober Leigh said -- if you are in the US -- if she has Medicare or Medicaid and you get her the hospital for her back and they play ball, social services will help get her in a rehab, which might actually help with her physical problems, and then home care and physical therapy at home afterwards a few hours a day.
Or if she has resources, paid home care.
I have stalked your posts for a long time and we both know that you should not risk what you have for anything, definitely not your mom.
But it would be great if you could let it go a bit if possible -- I rad a great post by someone who had issues with his mom and hated her visits because she was toxic and critical, but she did the same thing to his sister, who took it in stride and said "oh mom".
Since then I have been trying to do a lot of "oh mom" ing to various people with varying degrees of success, but even the attempt has made me see how nuts these folks are and sounds like your mom might even be worse than my ex.
I don't want to be overly simplistic, but as a mom, isn't your daughter worth so mush more than your mother, and you can't have a real relationship with her if you drink, just saying.
Guilt over toxic mother, versus guilt over daughter -- I think we know who wins that coin toss.
Not easy, not easy at all.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,360
Morning AO. How is the brownie hangover?
I can relate to trying to "save" your mom. Problem is we can't, we just end up enabling the status quo of their sickness. It would take a team of psychiatrist and some cooperation from the parent to even make a dent in all that is going on. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she groomed you to be her caretaker. That is probably why you are such an empath. I look at it a lot like the drinking. We keep trying to find a way to keep the booze in our lives when what we really need to do is just let it go. We keep playing a role we were assigned instead of just stepping out of it. I have been watching some video on critical thinking. Our brains naturally take the path of least resistance, which means if we want to change it takes a conscious effort and lots of practice. I know you know all of this. Just putting it out there.
XOXO (great poem btw)
I can relate to trying to "save" your mom. Problem is we can't, we just end up enabling the status quo of their sickness. It would take a team of psychiatrist and some cooperation from the parent to even make a dent in all that is going on. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she groomed you to be her caretaker. That is probably why you are such an empath. I look at it a lot like the drinking. We keep trying to find a way to keep the booze in our lives when what we really need to do is just let it go. We keep playing a role we were assigned instead of just stepping out of it. I have been watching some video on critical thinking. Our brains naturally take the path of least resistance, which means if we want to change it takes a conscious effort and lots of practice. I know you know all of this. Just putting it out there.
XOXO (great poem btw)
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,251
Hey there AO, just seeing this now. I am so glad to read to the end to find that you fought through this. You are better and stronger than your addiction. It sounds like you are having a really hard month altogether. These are the ups and downs of life, they come and go, some of the downs are more profound but they all must be dealt with and as you know, drinking only makes everything worse.
Reading your posts made me think about Tony Soprano's mother in the series The Sopranos!
Reading your posts made me think about Tony Soprano's mother in the series The Sopranos!
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,887
I have purposely avoided calling her last night. And the thought of calling her this morning makes me sick to my stomach. It's as if my body is completely screaming - NO MORE.
I think I posted this exact same story a few months back. And a few years back.
This is complete insanity
I think I posted this exact same story a few months back. And a few years back.
This is complete insanity
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
I know that exact sick stomach revolting feeling, friend. I know it well.
Stay strong, AO.
She will use all her wily skills to guilt you into existing for her.
I don't typically bring up my mommy sob story these days, but just to offer it as a sort of crazy, extreme example - and I won't go into the details as you probably remember the gist of it - even though my particular story resulted in tragedy (her suicide), I do not regret standing up for my own life and sanity.
So, this is me, saying ... please AO, do it for you. Stand up to her for your own life and sanity. Have no regrets. Set yourself free.
Love and hugs,
J
Stay strong, AO.
She will use all her wily skills to guilt you into existing for her.
I don't typically bring up my mommy sob story these days, but just to offer it as a sort of crazy, extreme example - and I won't go into the details as you probably remember the gist of it - even though my particular story resulted in tragedy (her suicide), I do not regret standing up for my own life and sanity.
So, this is me, saying ... please AO, do it for you. Stand up to her for your own life and sanity. Have no regrets. Set yourself free.
Love and hugs,
J
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 507
AO. Just read through this thread. So sorry you've had to put up with so much. And well done for hanging in there.
Just had one thought. If I understood right, you were considering drinking again to effectively remove yourself as someone who could be expected to care for your mother. Nobody will turn to a drunk to act as a carer.
But doesn't that mean that deep down you know that there are alternatives? Someone would step in to fill your place if you were drunk in a gutter. So at the risk of sounding naive, why not just skip that "drunk in the gutter" step and go straight to the "getting someone to take your place" stage? The people at her assisted living place obviously know what she's like. Whoever there is pushing you to take care of her, instead of them (if that's what's happening), can you arrange to sit down with them and explain calmly, and clearly, that you are no longer able to fulfil that role? That you have your own health issues (largely caused by her) that prevent it ? That you have a daughter you love and this is risking her own future and happiness as well?
As so many others have said, you have done more than anyone has the right to ask of you. You carry guilt for things that were not in any way, shape or form your fault. Nothing about the past can be changed now, but you can change your future. It won't be remotely easy but your sobriety shows you can take on and survive big challenges in order to improve your life. I really hope you find the way out of this situation that's best for you. Because you deserve that.
Just had one thought. If I understood right, you were considering drinking again to effectively remove yourself as someone who could be expected to care for your mother. Nobody will turn to a drunk to act as a carer.
But doesn't that mean that deep down you know that there are alternatives? Someone would step in to fill your place if you were drunk in a gutter. So at the risk of sounding naive, why not just skip that "drunk in the gutter" step and go straight to the "getting someone to take your place" stage? The people at her assisted living place obviously know what she's like. Whoever there is pushing you to take care of her, instead of them (if that's what's happening), can you arrange to sit down with them and explain calmly, and clearly, that you are no longer able to fulfil that role? That you have your own health issues (largely caused by her) that prevent it ? That you have a daughter you love and this is risking her own future and happiness as well?
As so many others have said, you have done more than anyone has the right to ask of you. You carry guilt for things that were not in any way, shape or form your fault. Nothing about the past can be changed now, but you can change your future. It won't be remotely easy but your sobriety shows you can take on and survive big challenges in order to improve your life. I really hope you find the way out of this situation that's best for you. Because you deserve that.
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,887
They are going to admit her. So now it will just be trips back and forth to the hospital.
Thank God I'm not hungover or in withdrawals. I can't even imagine the level of anxiety. Thank goodness for small favors right ?
Thank God I'm not hungover or in withdrawals. I can't even imagine the level of anxiety. Thank goodness for small favors right ?
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