confused: avrt vs aa
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Sapling and Mark,
I could not do it alone either. It took a lot of friends and many of them here.
Let me be clearer on the message I am carrying Sapling. It is simply that if one part of a recovery program does not work for you but the rest does then do it without that part and recover. Take from each a piece and make it a whole to become whole again if that is what works for you.
And to be honest I believe that is what most of us do.
I also don't think doing the whole program of any program is bad if it works for you. Recovery plans are essential but that does not have to include or exclude formal programs like AA and AVRT.
But folks need to get real about doing everything including full disclosure with your Doc and local support.
Sapling, if you think that was tough think again. I also had the head shrink at the local VA tell me if I quit rehab I would never make it. They told me no one had. I went back a year later and calmly reminded the head of the program that I was the one they told that I would never make it. I wasn't doing it because of them either.
The message I carry is simply that one size only fits all of that size. There is nothing wrong with modifying a program if it makes it work better for you.
I liked AA because you can start slow and do as much or as little as you need. Rule 62.
R&A, I am not so sure it is allegorical, or not allegorical as claimed. Regardless, it is not for me, maybe another and glad for them, but not for me. I don't need a scapegoat, nor an excuse for my stupidity in getting myself addicted to alcohol. No devils or beasts, no angels and demons, no books to thump or be thumped by. Just a quiet space to be, and that being sober.
I could not do it alone either. It took a lot of friends and many of them here.
Let me be clearer on the message I am carrying Sapling. It is simply that if one part of a recovery program does not work for you but the rest does then do it without that part and recover. Take from each a piece and make it a whole to become whole again if that is what works for you.
And to be honest I believe that is what most of us do.
I also don't think doing the whole program of any program is bad if it works for you. Recovery plans are essential but that does not have to include or exclude formal programs like AA and AVRT.
But folks need to get real about doing everything including full disclosure with your Doc and local support.
Sapling, if you think that was tough think again. I also had the head shrink at the local VA tell me if I quit rehab I would never make it. They told me no one had. I went back a year later and calmly reminded the head of the program that I was the one they told that I would never make it. I wasn't doing it because of them either.
The message I carry is simply that one size only fits all of that size. There is nothing wrong with modifying a program if it makes it work better for you.
I liked AA because you can start slow and do as much or as little as you need. Rule 62.
R&A, I am not so sure it is allegorical, or not allegorical as claimed. Regardless, it is not for me, maybe another and glad for them, but not for me. I don't need a scapegoat, nor an excuse for my stupidity in getting myself addicted to alcohol. No devils or beasts, no angels and demons, no books to thump or be thumped by. Just a quiet space to be, and that being sober.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by Itchy 
Let me be clearer on the message I am carrying Sapling. It is simply that if one part of a recovery program does not work for you but the rest does then do it without that part and recover.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Boleo
The one thing I do know is that if "Stopping drinking makes life get better" is a AVRT premise, it never would have worked for me.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
It isn't a premise. You are left in an abstinent state, for better or for worse, to sink or swim, and to fight for the good in life.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
AVRT's not saying you should stay unhappy, nor does it say you should try to be happy. It's neutral. That's the whole point—drinking is not an option, ever. Happy, miserable, healthy, sick—none of that matters. You will not drink. There's nothing to stop you from seeking happiness through other channels, including religion, service, whatever. But happiness and fulfillment are not part of AVRT as I understand it—the sole focus is the addiction.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
But happiness and fulfillment are not part of AVRT as I understand it—the sole focus is the addiction.
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Sapling I am not talking about taking anything out of anything for anybody else. If you are telling me that I can't take the steps out for me then that does not cut it for me. You see that worked for me. That does not invalidate what worked for you. I am not telling you to cut them out or include them. I leave that up to you. I don't care what steps you have taken or not, you have inspired me with many of your posts, you have helped many with your quiet voice. I would not dare criticize, nor presume to tell you what you should or should not do. Except to continue doing whatever is getting you your results, as I will continue mine.
For me dealing without drinking "long term" isn't quite accurate. In my mind, I have closed the door on that other life with alcohol. Permanently, with the help of my family and friends here and in the offline world. Permanently is good! Alcohol abuse? Been there, seen it, done it, got the T-shirt and the chips . . . time to move on, with a smile on my face and a light heart.
I am grateful for you!
You are part of the reason I am sober and getting my life back. Newcomer trying, or ten years sober, the power of worldwide support saying that they "got my back," well just contemplate that for a moments meditation.
For me dealing without drinking "long term" isn't quite accurate. In my mind, I have closed the door on that other life with alcohol. Permanently, with the help of my family and friends here and in the offline world. Permanently is good! Alcohol abuse? Been there, seen it, done it, got the T-shirt and the chips . . . time to move on, with a smile on my face and a light heart.
I am grateful for you!
You are part of the reason I am sober and getting my life back. Newcomer trying, or ten years sober, the power of worldwide support saying that they "got my back," well just contemplate that for a moments meditation.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
I'm not judging your life...I'm just responding to what you posted...I hope you are happy.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by Itchy
Sapling I am not talking about taking anything out of anything for anybody else. If you are telling me that I can't take the steps out for me then that does not cut it for me. You see that worked for me. That does not invalidate what worked for you. I am not telling you to cut them out or include them. I leave that up to you. I don't care what steps you have taken or not, you have inspired me with many of your posts, you have helped many with your quiet voice. I would not dare criticize, nor presume to tell you what you should or should not do. Except to continue doing whatever is getting you your results, as I will continue mine.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,602
I think this has been a really useful thread so I think we should try and lets keep things copacetic...
the way I see it there's room for AA, for AVRT, for all the other methods...and for cantankerous old gits like Itchy and me...
life would be hella boring if we were all the same
the aim should be recovery - I can't see anyone arguing about that...please? lol
D
the way I see it there's room for AA, for AVRT, for all the other methods...and for cantankerous old gits like Itchy and me...
life would be hella boring if we were all the same
the aim should be recovery - I can't see anyone arguing about that...please? lol
D
Gone In
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
...I am certain that you are hearing what you perceive to be the sound of my voice in your mind's ear as you read this very sentence, for example.
"So let it be written, so let it be done"
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by Sapling
I think I'd rather just enjoy life...Rather than have to fight for anything.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
AVRT is not a one-stop-shop for life in general.
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