john44

I've been through a 12 step based rehab, have been to aa meetings and have recently been reading about rational recovery. The two seem to be at odds with each other.

Any board members with experience with RR? I'd like to learn everything I can with an open mind.

Terminally Unique

The method of Rational Recovery, called Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT), is set forth in the following book:
If you want to learn about AVRT, I recommend that you get yourself a copy and read it. It is not expensive, but if you are concerned about the cost, used copies are available on Amazon for under $1.50. The RR web site has a free crash course, but the book is far more comprehensive.

There is also an active discussion thread on AVRT in the secular connections forum, where you'll find other forum members who are using AVRT. In addition to reading the book, I recommend reading through the thread from the very beginning, as it will help clarify some concepts.

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InsertNameHere

Those forums will help give you a deffinet idea about AVRT, and yes they are a little at odds with each other being that they are different philosiphies on how addiction can be "managed" (probably not the right word) I don't have any experience with AA but have been given a little education on AVRT from TU aka the awesome guy above me in this thread and others on the forum. I definetly recomend reading the book and giving it some thought. It and the advice I got here have helped me immensley.

Terminally Unique

Most, though not all, of the people who end up at Rational Recovery's door have already been through 12-Step based rehab and/or meetings without the desired outcome. This is not a requirement by any means, but Rational Recovery specializes in catering to this particular demographic.

The underlying premises of AVRT and 12-Step do differ. The first step requires admission of powerlessness over alcohol, which is explicitly clarified in the Big Book to mean the desire for alcohol. In AVRT, the desire to drink is called the Beast, which can appear to be powerful, but is ultimately assumed to be powerless.

eJoshua

Differences in philosophy, but I don't think the two necessarily have to be mutually exclusive.

john44

That's what I'm trying to reconcile. Although I do have a genuine, deep respect for AA, I do have some misgivings that I can't shake. I'm more than willing to keep an open mind and attack my alcoholism from any front possible.

Sapling

You should. Whatever it takes to stop for good.....That was the goal I was after.

Terminally Unique

While I am absolutely convinced that people in 12-Step programs use a stunted version of AVRT, as evidenced by the occasional references to the AV as either "my disease talking" (disease voice?) or "the committee," and some people can apparently mix and match ("take what they like and leave the rest"), they invariably have to do a lot of leaving. The first step of AA can effectively be re-worded as follows:
On that premise alone, the machinery of AVRT makes no sense. Also, in AVRT, the addictive voice (AV) is defined as "any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports, or even suggests, the possible future use of alcohol or drugs, ever," which will cause much of the conventional wisdom in AA to be caught in the cross-hairs and be identified as AV. Try parsing some slogans through that definition and you'll see what I mean.

Dee74

I think any method that has recovery as its goal has to have certain basic commonalities.

People have recovered using both methods - as an interested observer to both methods that's all that matters to me

D

Terminally Unique

Well, naturally, you'll find some commonalities in all the programs. They are dealing with the same basic problem, after all.

karilynn27

I say just keep researching and find what works for you. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, thats what got me into trouble in the first place. I became desparate to stay sober. By the time I post this it will be my 4 month anniversary date. I didn't think I'd make a week.
Find out what works for you. This is a constant learning experience for me.
A wise woman tells me often to stay out of my head to much, it can be a dangerous place. I had to get to the point where I realized I knew nothing about staying sober. I was blessed with people who were succesfully doing it and happy about it. I simply watched those who seemed to be succesful. I know one guy whos Higher power is a tree.
For me to drink is to die....literally. my health and my mental state would not make it. I am willing to go to any lengths.
Listen to people and keep an open mind.
You can do this:ghug3

Sapling

That's the motto I use.

And congrats on four months!

karilynn27

Thank you

eJoshua

Try parsing a lot of AA slogans through logic and they won't make a ton of sense. I agree that the fundamental premise of each are radically different, but I don't personally find either method to be perfect, or 100% agreeable to my personal philosophy and worldview. I think of both as models for a view of the concept of addiction, which is an elusive and amorphous term.

At any rate, my point is that I believe you can borrow from both in your own recovery plan and be quite successful.

Sapling

I don't know why the slogan's always get brought up...I got sober by what's in the book.

freshstart57

I quickly decided I was not powerless back in my day. I certainly had a heavy drinking problem and it was getting worse, but my picture of myself had me squarely in the driver's seat of my situation, not anyone else's fault, or anyone's responsibility but my own. I wasn't diseased or incapable, in fact I was supremely well and extremely capable, and no one or no thing could do this for me but me.

So I did it. I did it with my first shot, a 30 year history of drinking over and done with. Eight months now, through RR and AVRT. Terminally Unique, bless his pointy little ears, was a big help to me. Thanks, eh?

InsertNameHere

The subject of whether or not AA and AVRT can be reconciled somehow and whatever irrevocable differences there are if any has been broached before here is a link to the thread. Read through that and you will get a whole lot of really good thoughts on the differences and similarities of the two as well as some ideas from people who have found both helpfull.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...s-rr-avrt.html

Ranger

For my $, PeterG's thoughts on the 2nd page of the referenced thread is a definitive contribution on the subject. The topic is inherently difficult to discuss w/o it deteriorating into anti-program diatribes.

Jersey Nonny

I was confused enough during my 32 years of drinking. I can't speak to any other program of recovery...AA worked for me and I'm now sober for the same length of time I drank. I don't question the effectiveness of the 12 Step Program of AA, so I have no need to research other programs.

I hope you find the answers you are seeking and that they lead to a long life of continuous sobriety.

recoverywfaith

Researching methods that can be applied to maintaining sobriety is a good thing and it shows that you are willing to do things for your recovery. For me, both work well. I see others utilizing just AA and it works for them and others using AVRT and it works for them and others that utilize both AA and AVRT and it works well for them. Just the same that some of my coping strategies may work for me and not others. Keep searching for what works for you and that will help you to have a healthy balance.

All my best,
rwf