Dee74

I don't know if this helps but my dad and I were in competition for a long time Lofty - little digs, dismissive acts, contempt, sometimes even open hostility.

What made it worse was that, underneath all that, at some level, I still wanted my dad's approval. In a very real way I was still stuck in roles I should have left in the 80s...

I stepped back a few years ago - I decided I didn't need my dad's approval, nor did I need to be in competition with him, for anything (it was only after I was sober a few years I actually realised the competition thing - we were actually looking for respect from the other I think, but totally going about it the wrong way.)

so I stepped back - I didn't see him as often, & when I did, I tried to see my Dad not as my father with all that associated baggage...but a man.

I tried to give him his dues, but not at the expense of my boundaries any more.

I stopped trying to change him - useless to try - and focused on me & ways I could be better instead.

I didn't expect things would get better between us, but they did.

I'm never going to get my Dad ringing me for advice LOL ...and we still work best in small doses...

but nonetheless I think we've reached a level of quiet mutual respect now....I moved a little...but so did he.

I hope you can get there someday with your Dad too Lofty

D

LoftyIdeals

Thank you, Dee and Frances.

Dee, you have no idea how spot on you are with the competition and approval. I'm 49 and still crave my dad's approval. He's 73 and still wants to compete with me. It's inane.

I could write a book about it, but I wont. Thank you for your advice. I'll try it. I have always had this problem, but it almost never fails to surface during the 3 day visits we make to each other a couple times a year. We live about 10 hrs apart. Sometimes I fear I'm doomed to be just like him.

Thanks again. Good night.

aussieblue

Lofty sorry your Dad gets to you this way, but at 73 I don't think he's going to change though. I hope you can enjoy the rest of the visit.

Dee74

You're your own man Lofty, with many gifts talents and blessings
Try and focus on the good stuff

D

frances2011

More support, this is hard stuff!

Sympathy, commiseration, to you lofty! I am an expert at taking my dads bait.

Stepping back and focusing on your gifts and talents and not eating a poisoned offering sounds good to me.

At cabin, delightful, happy, content.

LoftyIdeals

Thank you all for your support. Today was spent at the national Air Force museum, and then to dinner. My dad went on raving about his stockbroker. I just sat quietly and then struck up a separate conversation with my daughter at our end of the table. What a clod.

He has asked everyone in the house the exquisite details of their lives and work, and hasn't asked me boo. You are right, Aussie. He won't change.

I'm just biding my time until they leave, hopefully, in the morning. But, I think I've realized I've got a lot to work through on this front. I had been legitimately looking forward to their visit, and didn't expect this BS from him or from me.

Dee, I'd love to know how you ultimately got over the similar situation, it sounds, that you had/have with your father. I should be over the need for his approval, if that's what I'm yearning. But, maybe all I want is a little general acknowledgment of me and my life.

Oh well, thanks again. More later.

Dee74

I think my first step was accepting my Dad was my Dad and he was never going to change much....I've really tried over the last 5 years to focus more on me and my reactions.

The second step was acknowledging that what he thought of me really had no impact on my day to day life, or what others thought of me, and it really shouldn't have any bearing on what I thought of myself, either.

My Dad doesn't really know a lot about what I think or what I do - he just knows how to push those buttons....and that goes the other way too

In many ways I was stuck at 13 - alternatively looking for approval, then headbutting the guy....I finally decided I didn't have anything to prove

Like I said I tried to see my Dad as another man, not my Dad.

I put in what I thought were healthy boundaries for me and I stuck to them...I took myself out of the family for a while...I didn't make a big announcement I just did it...& I didn't cut them out completely but backed off on communication with my folks a lot...

and when we were together...I did a lot of walking away and not engaging...basically how I'd handle difficult people who weren't my parents.

I would never have walked away before because that would be 'losing'..but I had to really look at what I trying to gain

What I didn't expect was my Dads (and Mums) attitude would change...whether he realises it or not, Dad treats me a lot more like another man now, not his son.

It's not perfect and it never will be - but all the angst and sting is gone out of it for me now - my Dad is annoying as heck but I love him and I can be around him now for a few days and not lose my mind

D

mirage

(((Lofty)))..you've gotten some great advice, I'm glad you reached out here. There are no better peeps in the land. Glad the visit is coming to an end and that, good or bad, it sounds like you grew from it. I'm sorry it was frustrating and hurtful.

Got home today..no internet capabilities at all up there. I embraced it and stayed in the moment. Did some boating, some skeet shooting, some target shooting, some xstitching, some fire watching. When D and the boys went to the sand bar to swim, I stayed back. That's where people go to hang out and party and that's where we met those folks last time we were up. I just didn't want to put myself in that situation this time, so I stayed behind. Turned out, they didn't stay there very long anyway.

I was a rock star regarding food. We stopped at Mc Don's on the way and I went to the adjacent gas station for a Slim Jim (meat stick) and some pistachios, instead. We grilled burgers and I had mine without the bun. I overlooked pop, donut holes, Doritos, potato chips, cheese puffs and a trip to Dairy Queen. Good grief. Why didn't someone just jam some bamboo up my fingernails while we were at it?!?! It's not perfect, I'm sure I had too many calories yesterday, but I still made some pretty good choices considering.

Anyway..hope everyone's good. I'll check in tomorrow.

Oh, and I had a buttload of drinking dreams Friday night.

Dee74

I shivered just reading your post mirage, LOL

D

LoftyIdeals

Wow, Mirage! You rock! Glad you stayed strong on the plan. I was on and off, but plan on picking it back up today. I am so bothered with my dad that I'm near depression, so I need to just shake it off, work out, and get back on the plan. Thanks, too, for you kind words. You are right, if I didn't have here to vent I don't know where I'd go, or what I'd do. Thankfully, the temptation is not to crawl back in the bottle.

Dee, thanks, too, for your wise words. I did try the walk away, but he can push buttons that burrow under my skin and stay there. He is a broken man, to have to want to compete with his children, rather than encourage and lift them up. I hope I'm never like that. I'll take deliberate steps not to be.

I see a swim in my day today, and it may even be a two miler.

I don't know when I'll be able to handle another one on one visit with my folks. I'm sure I'll do it anyway for the kids. I've got a lot to figure out. This emotion sideswiped me.

Peace to each of you. I love you all. And, I'm so glad our group gets each other and shares.

frances2011

swim swim swim lofty!

Woke up to falls cool breeze, cloudy skies.

Drinking coffee.

Walking away from family barbs is the best plan I've found. It gave me the chance to rediscover compassion and kindness for myself. I deserve kindness! Taking the bait isn't kind. Then I can be kind to my husband, then my friends, then I've found some extra for my family.

Last week I told my dad about the sustainability article I'm authoring, and his exact worlds were, "is that really something that anyone would want to read?" what an a-hole thing to say, really. I brushed it off as coming from a man who doesn't get it. I gushed instead to my friend and she told me how proud she is of me.

You did great lofty, I am really proud of you!

Woot mirage, nice going on choosing good food and avoiding the carp.

LoftyIdeals

There's that bottom-feeding carp again! LOL.

It sounds like our dads were cut from the same cloth, Frances. Why in the hell would they say stuff like that? Do they see it as some kind of inspirational challenge? If so, they are twisted in their thinking. Thanks for your share, it helped.

Rain here. Waiting to send off my folks, and then a little homework and a swim.

Have a great day, all.

LoftyIdeals

Ok...it hit the fan. A friendly game of scrabble, I challenged a word of my dads, looked it up in the scrabble dictionary, and won the challenge, to which he responds that I dont konow the english language and not every word is in that dictionary. For the record we have all agreed the scrabble dictionary is what applies. He got up to leave tye game but kept fighting me on the word. He sat back down, wouldnt accept tye challenge, so I said well f you then and left. I guess my workout is coming early.

LoftyIdeals

Hooray! They are gone!

frances2011

Good riddance! Stepping back a few miles, putting aside that this is your dad, it is completely rude to pick a fight in someone else's home imo.

My home is MY HOME. Guests are guests. They have no right to trample my wishes in my home.

From my perspective as an ACOA. I have a hot-button about this issue. My home is sacred. No one is allowed to bully-tantrum me in my home. I didn't have a choice when I was a child, but I do now. Guests who pick fights and behave badly and outrageously are not invited back. Period.

Since I can't abide the way things work at my older sister's home, I don't cross that threshold anymore. Full stop. More than two years now and I still feel completely solid in that decision. It's her home and her right to do as she wishes within her walls. I have a choice about whether I sit at her table.

Looking from the other side, husband and I are welcome guests in many homes. We stayed an extra day at the cabin even though our host left yesterday. We sleep in our little guest cabin on the property, but lounged on her sofa and used the kitchen last night.

Ya better believe we left the place spit-shiny and vacuumed and neat this morning. It felt so good to return some of her hospitality by respecting her home.

Cleaning and laundry and neatening up around home now and really enjoying it! I'll start the week tomorrow rested and ready to go.

I really really enjoyed time with husband this weekend. It's been a while since it was just the two of us. Nice to celebrate the good thing we've got going. ****{Gratitude I Got So Lucky}}}

frances2011

And! One thing that is helping me is learning to self-parent myself. For me, I am building my self-esteem brick by brick. It is getting so strong that someday soon other peoples' opinions just won't be able to budge me. But until that time, I pick and choose where I am vulnerable so I don't get hurt. That's just self-protection.

I re-parent myself by writing to myself and talking to myself. "You are doing GREAT! What a good job you did! I'm so proud of you." It sounds pathetic and silly but IT WORKS. It feels GOOD to tell myself these things. It's not about bragging or patting myself on the back. It's about giving myself feedback about all the good things I'm doing.

The other way I do this is by being an awesome Auntie to the kiddos in my life. Yesterday morning I swam with our friends 7 & 10 year olds. "Look at me! Watch me!" they said.

I said, I'm WATCHING! GOOD JOB! You are doing GREAT! LOOK AT YOU! Swim to me! I'm right here! You can do it! You DID IT! WOW!

The kids ate it up. Why wouldn't they? They are kids who are learning to swim more bravely and they need support and encouragement. It's just as important as food to them.

mirage

Aww, that made me tear up, frances. So sweet. They're lucky to have an auntie who gets it. I'm proud of you, too! That self-congrats thing is a GREAT idea. If you all were anything like me, you beat yourself up a lot for all the drinking and the not being able to control it. It was pretty much a daily thing for me to call myself an idiot. We have a lot of that to undo, I reckon.

lol..hooray, Lofty! Glad they've left you and you can get back to feeling at ease and balanced again. With only one "f off", I'd call it a victory. Onwards and upwards, my friend!

Speaking of doing what's best for US..I'll try to make a longish story shortish. Got a phone call from a high school/college friend yesterday, we'll call C. I roomed with her in college for a few years before I realized she drove me insane and we went our separate ways. I try to see her as little as possible, she's one of the very very few people in this world that I don't tolerate well or like. She's an alcoholic, she has said as much. She was drunk when she called me yesterday afternoon. In hs, we had another friend, we'll call her L..the 3 of us were pretty tight. She was a pretty wild girl. Big partier. She went to a different college, we didn't really stay in touch that much. Christmas cards, an occasional drink when she was in town, reunions, etc.

Well apparently L has divorced recently and gotten a little out of control. Probably not handling the divorce well. I'm not sure, tho. I have heard rumors thru others that her partying has gotten bad. So C calls yesterday and says that L is dating someone who is physically harming her. She wants us to jump on a plane to Texas and go support her. I would totally do this for anyone if I thought it would remotely help. The thing is, I really don't. I haven't talked to her in years, I've never visited her, I don't even have her phone number. We're just not friends anymore. C has sorta hung onto high school more than I have. She thinks if the 3 of us are together again, L will magically feel support and friendship and get her act together. She doesn't even want to TALK to L about the abuse, cuz she doesn't want L to know she told me. Does that even make sense?? She wants me to fly down there and surprise her and then not even discuss why I'm all of a sudden there?? The whole thing is crazy. I'm very sorry she's having problems, obviously. But I don't see my presence making a lick of difference and meanwhile I'm down there with two major drinkers, and not wanting to be there anyway. I hope I'm not being cold, I just really don't think I am. I suspect her biggest issue is the booze and/or drug use. She's making bad decisions because of that, I think.

So I said no. I said no a couple times as she didn't want to let it go. She still wants me to think about it and call her in a couple days. Maybe she won't remember that. It's hard to say no when it's in regards to helping someone. Or at least C perceives it that way, like I said, I really don't see it helping. I encouraged C to keep calling her and checking on her and to get in touch with her brother if she thinks he could help. So I dunno, but that's what had me a little stressed out and pre-occupied yesterday. It's sad. I feel bad. For both of them, really. They're both hot messes. I think I'm doing the right thing, though.

frances2011

Mirage, sorry for your friends, but you Made the right choice for you and your sobriety and your family. Glad you stuck to your decision. That's sane and smart.

And yes, my negative self talk is still around but a lot less pushy. Telling my av to f off and deciding to fight for myself and my happiness was a real turnaround. Major thx to sr!

mirage

Thanks, frances. I'm trying to be sane and smart, without feeling like I'm being unsupportive. This just doesn't sound like a sane idea to me.

LoftyIdeals

I agree, Mirage. Your local friend is living in a fantasy world. If you've lost contact with Texas friend, you would not likely succeed by a rescue trip down there. Plus, who's to believe the perception that exists? It may or not may be, but why take on someone elses dubious problems when we have our own. There a countless ways you could help if you wanted from right where you are. I was the drunkest of my friends, so I don't have folks coming back into my life and drunk dialing me, etc. I was that person. Don't want to go back there!

Wife and I agreed dad was being a big ass, although we saw it for slightly different reasons. After our exchange, my mom came up, and I told her that I didn't miss that they asked everyone about how their lives, jobs and school, etc., are going, but hadn't asked me a word about my life in any regard. She responded by asking how my life is going, which I just laughed at. My mom is a saint for putting up with him.

Frances, I like your thinking! I need to worry about and develop self. My dad said, as they were prepping to leave. "oh well, see you in 2017." I didn't respond.

Lord, please dont' let me become that kind of a a-hole to my wife and kids.