BayAreaPhoenix

Chiming in on the lying thing. The lying thing makes me absolutely nuts after learning how much (and not even all) of the lies my XAH did/said.

I watch/listen to the parents in my neighborhood and I have taken a lesson from them for my adult relationships. I hear them teach their kids; yes the kid might get in trouble, yes the parent might be mad, life has consequences, but if you lie about it on top of everything else, the kid is still going to get all that - plus lose trust and privileges. So, what was a (usually) simple mistake has now turned into a big to-do with much bigger and longer-lasting consequences.

That goes for me and the people in my life. I want to know I can trust the people I let into my life, they don't have to be perfect, neither do I, but I have self-respect when I take responsibility for my actions, even if I don't like the consequences, and I have respect for others who do the same. Important stuff - respect!

(((Cessy))) hugs to you!

cessy68

Flipppin struggling with the pain guys........ I told the abf via text message, how angry I am that his lies/addiction/ refusal to 'deal' with the issues, backed me into a wall, and now I have to clean up the aftermath of the destruction he left.

Granted, I understand that I allowed this to happen, but I'm angry that he made promises that he didn't keep (that I really truely believed).

He texed me back saying; " I lied to keep the peace. I'm sorry. I love you. Goodbye."

OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!

Gosh, this left me at work -- crouched in a bathroom stall, sneaking my phone to call my best friend, devistated.

I felt like I was punched in the gut....

Like all of a sudden, HE was saying "goodbye" to ME, as if I were the 'unreasonable one' that he WILL say goodbye to, because he can't deal with ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The pain was so immense.

I pictured him 'carrying on' with his life, getting his condo, new furniture, and 'living well', and being 'fine'.

In fact, my life was built around his words and promises. Even when he went to leave Sunday night, He came back in and said, "you want to throw 'all this' away over something so small?"...............

And I said "yes, leave"!!!!

Because the lie was about something 'small', but not really. His lies to keep the peace was symptomatic of an underlying issue.

His lies are compatiable with the reason he uses--- inability to 'deal' with conflit, issues, - an easy way to run from reality.

SO, i figured, I can't put up with a liar AND an addict. It's got to end..... why be with someone addicted that you can't trust?

Yet, when that text came, I felt like he THREW ME AWAY, like I was this disposable 'problimatic' child.... that he was indifferent, almost like,
"HEY YOU AREN'T CAPABLE OF LETTING MY LIES AND DRUGS GO>>>>> SO I WILL LEAVE YOU, GOODBYE".

I feel wrong,
hurt,
disposed of
not good enough,
sad,
angry,
bitter,
and most of all, just like a thrown away 'not worthy' person.....

by how he responded to me yesterday.

NOW, I know this sounds pathetic, but I'm trying to be honest, because these are the manipulations he's done before, that I believe are the reasons I take him back...... because when he has come back, I feel like, "see he does care, see I am not disposable"......

Finally.....the fear comes from thinking about him 'not' comming back this time....
almost like, I want you to go away..... but what I really want is for you to come back and love me and make it right... be honest, get clean.


Gosh help me.
Love,
cess

splendra

Hey((((((cess)))))

I have been thru what you are going thru many times it is not fun. I ask myself why am I feeling guilty because I don't like to be lied too?

If they have to lie so I won't be mad is this really the kind of relationship I need? I go crazy when I believe a lie it is a sort of barometer for me: If I am feeling crazy I am believing a lie.

Maybe you are feeling so confused is because you believe something that is not true.

I feel like I was asleep for a long time having a dream about how great my H is. I know I have to be asleep to believe a dream.

laurie6781

(((((Cessy)))))

How is your PRO/CON list coming? The more you work on it, get it down in black and white and read it, the less of these 'back and forth' feelings you will have, and will be able to protect yourself against this CLASSIC MANIPULATION that has just been pulled on you.

There is a line in the Godfather III movie that Al Pacino says that has stuck with me for years, have to paraphrase a bit here:

"Just when I think I am getting out, they suck me right back in again."

Yep, that was me, I would kick Kenn out, he would start with the phone calls, send flowers, wear me down, get back in the house, and the Roller Coaster would start all over again,

he had to work late
deposited only part of his check
his check stubs would not agree with the hours "he said" he worked
had so many excuses (lies) for things my head would swim
etc

I certainly understand.

I have to say thought that YOU ARE WORTH so much better than this behavior from an SO. You are a good, caring, compassionate, hard working woman, and you deserve so much more, especially RESPECT than you are now getting.

Hang in there sweetie, stick to your guns, even though it hurts. The hurt does get less, and that light at the end of the tunnel does get brighter, much brighter.

Love and hugs,

Callie

Cess - he's turning the tables on you and making YOU feel like the one left behind as opposed to him. What does that do to a codie (me at least?) sends me running after him to put back together what is 'mine'. I always thought no way in 'he((' is someone going to come along after he 'straightens' up and bask in everything that I've worked so hard for. He's also trying to maximize your 'drama' and minimize his 'wrongdoing'. This causes us codies (me at least) to rethink, reassess and relapse back into the R. Thinking maybe I over reacted to the sitch, or it wasn't as bad as I'd imagined. Just something to think about.

Continuing with this R is like being on the same hamster wheel chasing something that you will never catch with addiction involved. Like the donkey with the carrot on a stick dangling in front of him, forever running after something that he'll never catch. Another analogy - you know when you drop something on a windy day and you go after it? Just thinking you'll walk a few steps and pick it up, just as you reach for it the wind sweeps it away so you run farther and faster to chase it down? That's part of the codie dance for me. Always wishing, hoping, working for something that you can NEVER have with an active addict.

Abundance

Cess ... he did not reject you. I know how you feel, because I have felt rejected too. He is calling your bluff... he is whacked out of his head on pills.

Check this out.

Ya know when there are people who socially use drugs? And they are acting all weird, but because it's not a constant - you just shrug it off and figure that the next day they will be like... "OMG>... I can't believe I was acting that way!" "YIKES".

Well.. with someone who uses lots of pills for lots of days..... they have no par... or point of reference.

SO... anything that he says... good or bad .... has no substance - because he is so far away from knowing what is up or down anymore!

So... instead of getting caught up in the lies... look at it for what it really is. And in codie recovery - we are taught to detach and let them figure this out for themselves. In the meantime, what are our "deal breakers" - how many lies can we put up with? Big or Small.

My guy used to tell me that he lied because he thought he was taking the "path of least resistance" - I'd look at him practically screaming... "AND YOU THINK THIS IS THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE? MY REACTION? HOW FLIPPING TICKED OFF I AM ... not even that you have done what you lied about - but THAT YOU LIED ON TOP OF IT!!!!!" Geeezus - it's not rocket science! But you know what? Addicts in active addiction are dumber than rocks. SO - I suppose it is par for the course.

Cess - he did not reject you. He protected his use. THAT IS ALL. And when he is coming down because he runs out..... it will be less than 24 hours that he is contacting you.

What do you want for yourself? Not him.... you've done a lot of things for him already - what do you want for yourself?

justtired

Sounds to me like a duck texted you back. All I hear is a big loud QUACK! He is trying to manipulate you. Just try for a second to see what it really is and not what he wants you to believe it is. Do you want to be manipulated into being in this relationship? Because that's what he's trying to do. It's actually making me mad. Because I have been there and feel what you're going through, but can see it more clearly viewing from the outside. It makes me mad that he's trying to manipulate you and is trying to make you feel bad. Do you want to be with someone who tries so hard to make you feel bad??? Makes me want to do this to him!

incitingsilence

Just in general…

And Cessy, I hope you find a way to just work on you, as you hold all the answer, just have to find them...


I always found the reactions to the truth a valid point…

Addiction is so entrenched in lies, it wouldn’t survive very well without the lies and secrets…
As I always ask how are they suppose to act in active addiction?

The lies such a focus for everyone, they lied, lied…do you blame them, wouldn’t you…oh and I can’t help but ask, have you as well, to cover up, to fix, to smooth over and or protect…oddly it look very similar on both sides.
And all the while them lies are telling a very important truth, always did for me, but then I didn’t take them personal. My husband in active addiction, was just that in active addiction…

And when you get the truth, it isn’t all that easy to handle as well…
What would one say to the addict in their life is they answered yes I did use, yes I did take money cause I needed a hit…

Maybe this is one of the reason why we need to remove ourselves from the insanity. Maybe this is why we need to focus on us, just us and our behavior…self policing can be a truly eye opening experience…which does by the way make it so much easier to make decisions that we need to for our sanity. And it has nothing to do with staying, or leaving as if leaving alone can solve this which is already so inside of us for other reasons. We aren’t really in this by happenstance, those of us watching follow an almost set pattern spiraling out of control, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, just as the addicts in our lives do…we all have to hit a bottom at some point, we can opt out of the madness whenever we wish….and if your bottom is out of frustration and anger, a reaction because you can’t control, that they just won’t do as, and that why can’t they…well then time will show this real brightly when you start over and repeat the same pattern in the next relationship.

Codependency is also an addiction as well and we do tend to mirror the addict in our lives.

You will be hard pressed to find any answers looking through their eyes, with all the focus on them, and every question being gauged on their behavior and if they are using or not using, which so needs to be removed imo…
And what I hated the most is I never got any of the answers I really wanted, only those I needed which makes sense now cause I was asking all the wrong questions…

Very sad, so much pain in this thread…and the quacking, oh I am dying laughing, as if codies don’t quack equally as well…

Abundance

So much truth in the above post.........
You put into words all that I am feeling and know.

If we leave based on reaction because we can't control what it is that we want from the other person.... it will just follow into our next relationships. I can understand that - which is WHY I will not be leaving recovery.... staying in it.... because I'd have to say - that I COULD have accepted how I was being treated and accepted him for all of the things that I ALLOWED to hurt me ...... however; NO WAY - NO HOW - could I accept all of those things in my partner! GEeeeeeez.... and really - why DID I? It really comes down to choice. And I have the choice to NOT BE IN SUCH DYSFUNCTION.

And by doing this self-policing in my therapy - it really opened my eyes to my role in all of this.

Sorry Cess for high jacking - I am finding this thread to be extremely healing and enlightening.

kj3880

Oh Cess, it is all game and high drama, I know it. To get you insulted and wanting him back, he says "Goodbye" in a rejecting way. I could be wrong, but I bet he knows just what he is doing. Don't let him get away with it anymore.

KJ

splendra

The list thing is hard to do too it's hard because I am still asleep dreaming my dream about how great he is.

When I wake up and see him standing in the driveway high on crack with that stupid look on his face when he is supposed to be giving me money for the house payment or food and helping around the house but, he can't cause now he is coming down and he feels bad then I can make my list and see reality.

As long as I keep dreaming this dream that he and I can make it I am going to keep waking up to seeing him standing in the drive way high.

That is what he does. He can manipulate me "9 ways to Sunday" as they say in the country. I can keep being lulled to sleep by his line or I can stay awake and watch what goes on. I made lists until I got really sick of it. I still let him come back I just couldn't get it.

Freedom1990

It is true that we quack as well. While I was wailing about the EXAH and 'him, him, him', in reality, wasn't it all about me, me, me in an equally dysfunctional way?

Let's not dissect all the lies I was telling myself inside either to continue in that destructive and draining relationship!

I took everything he did personally, as if I were that damned important in the grand scheme of things.

He turned to the drugs/booze to try filling that void inside, and I was grabbing with equal gusto at him to fill that void inside of me.

cessy68

Wow, thank you ALL for your insight and empathy. I was a tad scared to turn my computer on tonight.... after I exposed myself, and felt so vulnerable (sp) this afternoon.

However, you all UNDERSTOOD, and I feel so much warmth and comfort.... that I am understood.

I was pretty banged up internally last night and this a.m.... and I wrote to you all.... and I came home from school and did some 'cleaning' of the house-- my physical home and my internal home. I went to the local film developing place and did 10 8x10 pics of me and my kids, family, and friends all in black and white. I have had a partitian wall , that has 8x10 frames surrounded by wood, that I have been putting off setting up.

well, I filled that baby up today, with the most georgeous pics of everyone I love in my life... including myself. I sat here tonight, before going on the computer and stared at it, burning incense, listening to music, and having a pipeing hot cup of strong coffee. (and a cigg...)

As I stared at the pics, (first time in four years I did not develop ones of him and I) I realized what an amazeing life I've been blessed with. I even looked at myself, and thought to myself, that it is a shame that he is to high to see my real beauty... (inner as well). I looked at that and recalled the gifts of healthy loving children, the gift of parents that are THERE FOR ME, still, everyday. The gifts of friends, that support me, regardless of how often they thought I should 'leave' him etc.

I realized that in his 'condition', he will never be able to 'participate' in my life, in a manner which is 'acceptable to ME'.

I realize that there is a lot of pain inside of me, (trying to come to terms with what I thought would be) but somehow it kinda just died tonight-- because in a metaphoric kind of way, I realized how short life is....

I thought about the people in the pictures, and I wondered to myself -- if I were to be on my death bed tomorrow, how would I feel, about having ROBBED those individuals who TRUELY loved me, of joy? How would I feel --- not having been able to 'give' to those individuals the love THEY deserve from me, because I was so engrossed in trying to obtain a 'love' from a man who spoke -- but never delivered.....

I thought about how hurt I had been, craving for him, starving for attention from him, (that the drugs took away) AND YET, how many people in my life, DESERVING of my love, have been starving and craveing MY love and attention, but I had expelled so much energy and time on HIM, that I didn't have too much left to give to those who deserved it.... like dedicated friends, family, parents, and children?

I hope I can stay in this place of clarity..... (maybe it's the incence) lol.

Thank you ALL,
Love,
Cess

Abundance

Cess - I reflect on the same things. I'm glad you had a night filled with love and accomplishments.

I am surprised at how un-lonely I'm feeling. I mean - I will start to miss him, but it's only for small amounts of time. I'm able to change my mind up, and remind myself why this is so much for the better.

Love the photo idea. I haven't printed and framed photos in years! I have an entire wall I can cover!!!

catecicc

Oh Cessy, I read through your thread and it's as if I am reading myself two months ago. I relate so much to what you are going through. It's painful and hard and plain out sh*tty. I do have to say though there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's not a fun road to walk, but I can vouch for the fact that as soon as you get on the path to healing for YOU and YOU alone you'll immediately start to feel better.

My ex was the same way, one of the last arguments we had was my screaming at him over if he didn't love himself then how could he ever love me. And he continued to tell me he did. Funny thing is, I had finally stopped believing him. And that was my first sigh of relief. He thought he loved me, but he never could.

You are a strong woman (from what I read) and you will be fine. Have faith!
~Cate

Freedom1990

Cessy, what a wonderful idea with all of the pictures, and in black and white too! I have a partition wall that I have been wondering what to do with, and you just gave me the solution!

:ghug :ghug

Abundance

Cynical One....... just

You just summed up SO MUCH!!!! Thank you.

I think your words speak a very frank - assertive - TRUTH - at least for myself and my guy.

whereami

The reason we feel so freaked out when they choose to control the situation by saying they are done is because we want control since we know they are in the wrong. In a way it is like trying to punish them, we want them to hurt from our words because they made us hurt with theirs. The lies and illusion they created is still being carried out, guess again if you think an active addict will have a great time now that the stability of you is gone. Try no boundaries, no holds barred craziness and out of control use due to the emotional justification of having "problems"...I sometimes think they stir up these confrontations to have a reason to use. I bet 10/11 that he will be back to try and hoover you in again, after all you put up with him. People don't do well with change, everyone wants to diet, quit smoking blah blah but do they really want to commit to the action? That is why most diets fail, when it comes to the walk, someone weak with addiction and lying issues most definitely will not "wake up" without just cause that stops them in their tracks. I also think when the party is over, you will have control again and will have to be strong and say No means no...I am not sure why they like to string us along, but it seems to be a common characteristic with this cycle...breakup makeup big breakup maybe try again? If you enabled him at any point I think when worse comes to worse he will be back to rest with you...your choice whether to open the door or turn the porch light off and change the lock.

I personally am battling with the way these people block out the human effect of their actions. It borders on narcissism and takes a lot out of me to respect them as people when they are in active addiction. I have found it effective to ignore completely with no attention they can't feed the fire so they go elsewhere. Just my opinion...

pepper13

ohhhhh myy you sound like me, not long ago not way back then but right now....you just wrote something that i have a hard time saying to myself, i am truly sorry ur going through this because my heart is in the same painful place. i believe all of us who have or is in love with an addict wants them to come back and make things right. its like you are taught all your life to fight for what you want or what you believe but it doesnt work in this situation i just left my boyfriend friday who is a heroin addict there alot more to my story but to get to my point there hasnt been one word you have written that i dont feel right now. the man who makes you feel happy and secure is the same one who is making you unhappy and insercure.....let him stew on it for while....like everyone says work on yourself right now the additction is causing him to resent you and act as if your in the wrong! you know your not you know you deserve to have the man you fell in love with and he is not that person right now, give it time if its meant to be he will be apart of your happy ending if its not....and this is very important....you will STILL have your happy ending sweetheart dont worry one day at a time, dont fight being angry and sad allow yourself to be for awhile keep your head up you will be ok everyone on here is a fighter you are no different.

Abundance

Cess... how are you doing?