Pick-a-name

I'm fairly new to recovery, but in my mind, this post is coming from the same place that Jessica is. (Maybe that is just me.) That she tried a "last-ditch" effort in the hopes that G. really isn't as bad as she thought (ergo her "guilt") and her experiment didn't have to last long to get her thinking the same as Sarah (http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...nd-lesson.html)

Now: what does she do about it? (maybe why she asked about changing the locks). And also why she wanted this treated like an answer to a newbie; because she is back to square one. What is a viable plan? (that is what I am curious about) She didn't or couldn't hear it the last time.....maybe she wants and is ready to hear it now. JMHO

Of course, I really don't know.


Anyhow.....this thread has been very helpful for me, and looks like others have been involved in it,also.

Morning Glory

I apologize FD. I worded that wrong. I should have said it feels like criticism.

I have no doubt that everyone who comes here day after day and posts to others has good intentions and is only here to offer help. This thread hurt me in a personal way because I never could take the right action or make the right choices. I knew one way to receive love. The only pattern I learned was trying to get love where it wasn't available. I can honestly say that the love I received from members here was the first time I've ever received love and the first time I ever felt like I belonged anywhere. That is the foundation that helped me make the right choices and take the huge risk that was required to do the necessary things with my son.

I discovered on this forum that I was living 99% of my life in a false reality of false hope. I think the only reason I could face that was because I knew I was safe here and had support. Facing that showed me that I was emotionally bankrupt and that I spent most of my life receiving nothing at all. What I thought I was receiving wasn't real. I made it up in my mind. I took the crumbs and made them my substance. I was raised with crumbs and it's the only thing I knew. I hung onto bad relationships because I would have starved to death without them in my false reality world.

I originally posted in this thread because I could relate to what Jessica is going through. She is eating crumbs and she may think she will starve to death without them. I just felt if we feed her and she isn't so hungry that maybe she can make different choices that are better for her and her children.

I took the thread personally and looked at it through my eyes. I can remember thinking that everyone would rather have me make better choices and they didn't care if the choices killed me. I felt judged for doing my best. My recovery did take a long time. I had a lot to uncover and could only face those demons a little at a time. I judge myself for taking that long. It makes me feel stupid. I know I spent every waking moment trying though. From the outside I'm sure it didn't seem like I was getting very far. I am old now and still working on it and still doing the best I can.

There is a scripture that says not to choke a baby with meat. They need milk first. There is a time for the truth of milk and a time for the truth of meat. I needed milk when I got here.

Pick-a-name

MG....thanks you for writing that. Sums up very beautifully my own feelings. I am doing better, but I am where you write of being (most days..but not all anymore )

equus

This may or may not make sense, it's for all those that I know absolutely do care, very much including FD!!

My old boss used to say "You know how to ride right, so ride right - if the horse is going badly you won't help by getting frustrated and riding badly. Ride right and the horse'll come to you, as long as you ride right."

I'm not saying people are horses or that we can look to control. But I found a real wisdom in the above, to treat people the way I believe in and not to get frustrated or change my (I wish there was a word that joined actions and beliefs) belactions (there I made one). It's about a way of being that belongs to me, that I can learn and improve through life and that isn't dependent on others doing what I expect.

For me that way of being is belactions showing the dignity to others, the same dignity given to me by others that helped me so much.

I wouldn't remember all of that but I do remeber 'Ride right - no matter what the horse is doing - ride right.'

I hope that made some sense.....?

GettingFree

Judy, I'm glad to hear you name your frustration clearly. That way I know I'm not simply imagining it. You're definitely not alone -- there is frustration coming out in many responses on this thread. I also heard it come out in other threads.

In a thread started a couple of weeks ago by newcomer bfneedshelp, I saw frustration come out in many posts when she was resistant to seeing her inability to help her boyfriend. At that time I wrote a response wondering out loud if SR had been around 20 years ago, if all the learning and books were around 20 years ago that are now, would I have heard the message immediately? Would I have shaved years off a bad marriage? Saved myself my second marriage completely? Or did I need to go through the expreriences I did, and do we all, in order to get the learning we need to make the eventual changes.

I end up wondering why anyone here would feel frustrated with another's recovery. After all, none of us is living with one another here and impacted directly. But what I keep hearing, in so many words is, "You're not doing recovery the right way."

And with that, I'm hearing a lot of irritation and scolding in the posts. Why? What's getting triggered in people to cause that frustration and anger at someone who is slipping, or 'not doing very good in her recovery.' Why frustration? I can't help but think there have to be answers inside.

When I see things in someone else I don't like, there's often a good chance that it's something inside me I don't like. The very things that bother me in others, are often the very things that I'm bothered about in myself.

And why would I be irritiated if someone didn't follow advice I gave? They may not be in a place they actually can act on it, in their own journey at that time. I could always choose to stop giving it if I felt I was 'wasting my breath.'

I know sometimes when I'm frustrated that "I'm not getting through to someone", I look inside and see that what I'm facing is my sense of helplessness. I see that I'm trying to feel my power, my sense of value, through impacting others, by having them 'listen' to me. So I stop and listen -- and realize my frustration is much more about me than about them.

Judy said she lived in hell for 13 years. It took her 13 years to get to a place in her recovery of taking concrete steps to change her life. What's it been for everyone else here? Heck -- I wish I only went through one toxic relationship to get to where I am today.

Jess is at where she is at. If I have something to share from my own experience that may help in her hearing it, I will. But I also respect her as an individual for whatever stage she's at in her recovery, even if from out here it looks like taking steps backwards. It is not my place to judge.

gf

denny57

I am bothered that there is a discussion going on "about" Jess. I even allowed myself to be sidetracked in this thread. Maybe this topic could be generalized and started as a new thread. JUST A SUGGESTION. LOL

Live

I just wonder if Jess will come back to SR and post again.

LaTeeDa

It seems to me that there is a lot of "speaking for" the original poster going on here. On both sides (shouldn't be so mean vs. needs to hear the truth). I say let her respond for herself. And if she chooses not to, then that is her response.

L

GettingFree

Yes, I agree LTD. Jess can certainly speak for herself.

However, I see that this post got derailed a while back -- and I don't see that as a bad thing. Perhaps like denny suggested, a new thread should have been started.

For me, this thread stopped being about Jess in particular and has become about how in general we respond to one another's recovery path, what happens when someone isn't 'getting it', etc. This isn't the first time I've seen this pattern.

I think it's a really worthwhile thing to explore. Jess gave us the opportunity to do so.

And just for the record -- speaking for myself, I don't see the debate about not being mean versus being truthful. To me it's about respecting where another person is in their recovery process versus telling them they're wrong or off-track for not doing what is thought to be right, or for not 'getting it'.

One can always be respectful while telling their own truth.

ASpouse

No, no, I was not recovering for 13 years gf, hell I was drinking and having a good time for about 11 1/2 of those 13 years also. It was after my son died I saw the problem for what it was. I was a great enabler and my life, being co-dependent and an enabler was easy for me and felt normal. It didn't seem like a problem to me. It took 18 months after that for my husband to get into rehab and for me to grudgingly go for help. After all, my thinking at the time was "I don't have a problem, he does".

It was a tearful phone call to a counsellor that I pulled out of the phone book that made me realize just how sick I really was and that was when I started with the counsellor and al-anon. I would like to credit the counsellor and al-anon for saving my sanity, but alas I will take credit for that. I worked hard to get myself back and with some prodding by the counsellor and some hard questions asked by al anoners, I made it, at least I feel much more sane than I did 3 years ago! LOL

I was not in turmoil for 13 years ..... but after my head started to clear and my own self induced fog lifted (after my sons death)(and the fog was not from drinking or drugs) bought on by a fantasy I made up in my mind, I realized how much my behavior was causing my own distress, not his.

It's a journey I continue today, not as diligently as I once did, but still the lessons remain part of me and I hope they always will.

ASpouse

I don't know why she wouldn't.

LaTeeDa

I completely agree.

On the other side of the coin is what some call a highly sensitive "BS meter." Sometimes I get a sense that a poster is coming here looking for support or justification of what they are doing. (I'm not saying that was what this particular post was about, but I have seen it before.) I have a really hard time saying something like "just hang in there, you're doing the best you can," when I don't really believe it myself. I don't know the person on the other side of the computer screen, all I know is the words they type here. I feel that I would be doing harm to that person by telling them "good job," when I really felt that they were "talking the talk," and just looking for someone to support them in their denial. It does seem harsh sometimes, but I do try to remain respectful. (Not that I always succeed )

L

Jazzman

I have a feeling Jess was concerned about a response that was slightly less than "group hug". That's why the whole "pretend I'm a newbie" thing.. She knew exactly what to expect IMO.

Jess if you're still reading this thread.. please print this out and read it when ever you're not operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery....
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

denny57

JESS

I hope you do decide to come back - either way all the best in your recovery. I do remember a while back there was a thread you started that also took this turn and we didn't hear from you for a while. Don't be a stranger - you sure get everyone talking.

Jazzman

Jess I can think of at least two threads were a poster brought up concerns about your childrens emotional health and that was the last we saw of you for a while.

If anything else SR should be for support. We all just want to see your and your childrens lives improve.

Aquiana

I hope you come back too Jess. It takes alot of courage to post when you know you're not going to get a pleasant response. You will always have support here. I think the important thing is you haven't given up. You're still coming here and that's a good sign in itself.

GettingFree

Hi Judy,

I'm kind of confused now ("13 years of pure drunken, drug induced hell", or "I was not in turmoil for 13 years.").

But it would seem to me if you were drinking for close to 12 of those years, I'd guess you must have been in turmoil too.

Whether you want to start counting from the day you picked up the phone to the counsellor, or from the 'self-induced fog', it seems there a lot of years you weren't living a life free from drama, chaos, addiction and self-destructive codependence. And it took a long time to break free. I'm not at all judging. Hardly, as I've been there. I was trying to point out that for many of us the road to health took many years.

Pick-a-name

GF, I agree.

This thread has been helpful to me on several levels....I must say; I keep seeing my former way of treating AH and I am a bit taken back and even embarassed (?).

Making me re-examine several things......which is a good thing.

GettingFree

My therapist would never say "good job" if she thought I was fooling myself. On the other hand, she'd never demean me, scold me, or condescend to me. And I don't think the line is as fine as some are trying to make it.

It almost seemed that people felt let down or betrayed by Jess by not adhering to the program and the previous support given. Any truth there?

denny57

I think the difference would be the time I realized I needed help and then started getting it. That is, in my opinion, different from realizing I lived in chaos. I don't much care for putting time limits on recovery, either, but if I use that as a gauge, I would say I "realized" in August 2004 something had to change and something did finally change in October 2005 (separation).