Oynnet

I know they’re not the same. It’s why I needed him to come for a longer visit with an eye to moving if it went well. I need to see what we are like out of vacation mode.
I know he can’t just moderate. Or learn to drink like “normal”. He doesn’t know that yet. He hasn’t admitted that yet. And I can’t make him see it. That it outside what I can do for him. He is the one who is still on the drink in moderation journey.

trailmix

Ok so I went back and read this thread from the beginning. I decided I should step back because I found this, at least, confusing. You said last week:

So that was the rent I was referring to.

I didn't realize that, while you have been friends since 2020 you have been dating for a year only. Not that a year is "nothing", I don't mean to imply that.

What I was thinking though is that the year in a romantic relationship has been wildly dysfunctional. That's a lot for 1 year.

That said, I completely understand how even a dysfunctional relationship can be appealing for whatever reasons.

I would maybe ponder if this relationship is good enough for you though, never mind him. While, as you have written, he can be quite a caring guy when on holiday, where he can temporarily curb his drinking, he has managed to insult you and put you down repeatedly.

He shows two different sides. The good and the horrible (yes, it's horrible). Do you love that too? Because that is part of him and he will bring that with him. I do get your wanting to try for a couple of months to get some clarity though, but he keeps refusing, why do you think he keeps refusing, what's holding him back?

Oynnet

I mean, yeah. I’m an optimist.
but he wouldn’t be stuck. He would come with a return ticket to go home. He has two pathways to work here (he is on skilled migration list or a partner visa) should he wish to stay. He has to leave his apartment in the US anyway, so if he had to go back he’d go back to his parents until he got a new place. His current job would give him leave for a month or two with no issues. So he’d have work when he got home. I’m not asking him to up and move. I’m asking him to come for a longer stretch of time and decide at the end of that time if he is staying or going home.

Oynnet

Hes refusing because he puts higher stakes on things than I do. I say “two month stay” and he thinks “forever”. He sees that his reasons for coming are the fact that his life is in shambles and I am an escape, and thinks that’s not a good enough reason to come.

trailmix

Well, truthfully, he's not wrong? Well I mean in the great scheme of the universe he might be, I don't know lol

But in general and specifically from his point of view, he is saying no to all of it?

I guess, not to be harsh (and I hope you won't take it that way) why are you trying to change his mind?

wyrd

Agreed. I think what irks me the most is my impression that his tortured conscientiousness, genuine or not, is really nothing more than hurling pain her way.

The conversation you had with him OP about sobriety as a destination was all about how boundaries are kind of negotiable. That's not something to compromise on before a move like that. I think, ironically, a trial phase with no contact is much more helpful for you than a trial phase physically together at this point.

Oynnet

I mean, he’s said yes. And then no. And then maybe. Just this morning he messaged he wanted to see me. So it’s never a fully No.

And as shallow a reason as it is… I love him. I want to be with him. That’s it.

trailmix

I understand when you set yourself on a path that is maybe not the best path but you need to see it for yourself.

He has treated you badly. The things he has said to you are amazingly horrible. But in spite of that and in spite of the fact that you have teens at home, you want to do this anyway.

Here is the hitch though. You can't bring yourself to let him go even though he is thousands of miles away, but you think that you can tell him to leave if he continues to hurt you and berate you and act badly, in person.

That's kind of, perhaps, not realistic? You are driven toward this man, for whatever reasons and I think it's probably more than just love (but that's just my opinion) but you imagine you would be willing to hand him a ticket and throw him out after day 14 of your kids sitting in the LR after school watching him drink (while after that he tells you about his angst).

But it really is up to you ultimately, of course, just something to think about.

All that depends on if he is willing to come over at all. He does have another resource, his Mom. He can afford to ignore the next rent day because, even if she can't give him money, he could probably stay with her for a while.

Oynnet

I just wanted to stop by and maybe give a bit of an update. (I've still been reading other posts)

You guys said a lot of things I was not ready to hear - and that part of me resisted hearing - but that I needed to hear. It took a while for a lot of it to sink in frankly, but I thank you all for being so honest with a random stranger on the internet. I really do appreciate it.
One of the things I realized, was that I was tolerating behaviours that I shouldn't be. This isn't something unique to him - I am a pretty conflict avoidant person (unless a structured debate and then watch out!) But I started standing up for myself with him.

I didn't block contact - I wasn't ready for it. But I stopped giving him a pass, and started calling him out on things. He saw a therapist finally (Yes I paid for the session, via his Mom so he doesn't know I paid, but he initiated the session).. Got antidepressants. Went Cold Turkey on the booze (had three beers the first day of the antidepressant, felt weird, and then had a massive panic attack when I pointed out that the two interacted and he could accidentally overdose if he wasn't careful). He has now been sober for a week. (Yes I am aware a week is a drop in the bucket, but it is a start I am really ******* proud of him)
Two days ago I called him out for breadcrumbing me - lots of comments he was making around missing me, wanting to see me, and the final straw for me was that he called me his 'rock'.

Something in him woke up when I called him out.

He took a lot of ownership of the ways he's been treating me, and we ended up talking last night for 6 hours taking a long hard look at the benefits and challenges that the relationship has posed. I was crystal clear on my needs and boundaries, and how he can and should step up to properly meet those needs. (And his needs too - this wasn't one sided). I was able to be more natural and more myself than I have in a long time - including snark (which he's commented on about 4 times since how much he loves and wants me to do more often).

We're both nervous, but cautiously optimistic right now. What is crystal clear is that our emotional connection is something neither of us can imagine not having in our lives, and we don't want to be apart.

I ended up having to fall asleep mid-conversation (it was midnight), and I worked today so we couldn't pick it back up yet, but we are planning a further conversation about what the next step is for us.

LucyIntheGarden

Well, he's still an alcoholic. Mr. Hyde will be showing up soon.

If you don't want to be apart, think about sparing your children, and waiting until they have graduated and gone to college, then you can go to the U.S. and live with him. It would be very sad if they had to cope with an alcoholic in their home.

trailmix

I appreciate the update Oynnet, I was wondering how you were doing.

I hope you will protect yourself. Optimism is great, incredibly cautious optimism in this case is maybe wise?

Probably the fact that he realized you are not unaware of how he has been operating, on purpose or it's his default personality.

I hope he will stick with the sobriety.

​​​​​​​

suki44883

Oynnet

My youngest child doesn't graduate for 6 more years. That is entirely unreasonable to have a long distance relationship that long. And he has to move here first, or there won't be a relationship at all. I have my own medical reasons not to move to the US right now.
Yes. He is an alcoholic.
But I want to point out that it is not a blanket diagnosis for behaviour. He had moments of Mr Hyde - yes. I will not sugar coat it - what just happened was very much Mr Hyde. But his alcohol generally turns him into Eeyore not Mr Hyde. What turned him into Mr Hyde... well was me. Not that I did anything wrong. And yes his alcohol use was to blame - I do not take the blame for this. But it was my inconsistency in setting boundaries and having consequences - I wasn't. That is how I ended up on this forum. I didn't hold him to boundaries, and so when I made a poor attempt at doing so it triggered his fear and pain and he lashed out to deflect focus on himself.

Oynnet

Very cautious at this stage. I have been very firm at this point in stating what my needs and expectations are - and if we cannot communicate about my needs/expectations and his need/expectations and come to compromises and agreements on them, then I have told him we shouldn't try again. No matter how much I want to.

I realized during the 6 hour chat we had the other night that he simply has no idea what a proper relationship looks like. His parents divorced when he was 6 months old, but neither of them moved on. In fact they remain living together to this very day. It was highly dysfunctional. (Was... *is* highly dysfunctional). He's never had a serious relationship before me. He never did the whole casual dating to longer dating in his 20s to work **** out. His closest mates are all online, and so has never seen a relationship develop and play out.
So I am treating him as if he simply just doesn't *know*. And honestly? He's responding really positively to that. At least for now while he is sober.
But maintaining my boundaries is going to be really crucial.

velma929

"I didn't hold him to boundaries, and so when I made a poor attempt at doing so it triggered his fear and pain and he lashed out to deflect focus on himself."

What you call "boundaries" sounds to me like "rules he has to follow."

suki44883

I'll ask again...What do your children think about some alcoholic guy they don't even know moving into their home?

Oynnet

My son loves him. Thinks he's funny and fun to play games with. (They play video games together. My daughter is more reserved - she has issues with her Dad (who walked out when I was 7 weeks pregnant with her). She is open to get to know him, but needs more time. She also is willing to welcome him - she wants me to be happy.

Bekindalways

It does sound hopeful Oynet. As you may know that first year of sobriety can be hell for everyone involved so that you two live 1000s of miles apart might not be a bad thing.

More, no doubt will be revealed.

Ringside

I know you don't see it this way now, but you are working tremendously hard to get yourself and your children into exactly the kind of situation that necessitates forums like this, Al-Anon, etc. There are countless happier roads to travel than the one you are on. Whatever you do, I wish you the best.

wyrd

It's astounding to me how long it took for me to tell the difference given the simplicity of the thing, and it took even longer to put into action, but what a difference it did make. It doesn't matter how often you tell them what your boundaries are, if he needs prompting it's not working and your boundaries mean nothing, they are the rules you set for yourself about how you want to be treated without even saying a word.

This is going to sound a bit flippant, but I'm trying to put myself in his shoes. At the end of the day you're hoping that a depressed, cannabis using/drinking guy without experience in serious relationships who drank some of your savings away and feels better when you're around and who has your permission to use your money to buy booze, will transform into someone who can simultaneously handle fresh sobriety, kids, his first proper relationship and a life in another country thousands of miles away without resorting to drinking heavily because you love him deeply. I would feel honoured by your belief in the strength of your bond, but it is unfair of him to burden you with what at the end of the day is his self-care, whether he's broke(n) or not.

Also, alcoholics can end up entirely different people in sobriety. The last thing I'd expect is that you can put him back together. This NEVER works, but the attempt can sure as hell tear you apart. Wishing you well, Oynnet.