Struggling with My Codependent Mother
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,644
Originally Posted by theuncertainty 
And how does it work when your parent moves in with you? DS wants a dog. I want a dog. Mom does not want a dog. She says allergies, but she was just fine when she lived with my younger sister's family and their Malamute and 2 cats. It’s MY house, FFS. OK... I think I'm done. Thanks for letting me vent.
You mentioned she is getting a bit older and is having a bit of trouble with driving and medical care etc. Sounds fairly self-sufficient though if she is playing irritating videos to get you out of the room and picking up your Son.
Is there no way she can afford or find a place of her own? It sounds like you are supporting her financially? Does she not have any means and no pension? If she does have a pension is it possible she could live in subsidized senior housing (not meaning a "home" just subsidized for lower income seniors).
Sorry if these questions are too personal and of course no need to answer. The videos were a move to get you moving and it worked. You can't even feel comfortable sitting in your own living room watching tv? Your child is in his room, you are off in your room and Mom is watching TV, sounds very much like the child/Mother dynamic rather than the two adults dynamic.
I think the thing is that this isn't going to change. Not sure how you can find peace with this other than making separate living arrangements?
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
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Thx, all. Yes, I think we'll keep looking for a dog to adopt.
No worries, Trailmix. Not too personal. She was a stay at home mom while we were growing up, but had been working retail jobs the past few years until she moved here. She was getting by while living in the Pacific NW, but wasn't going to the doctor, even if she needed to. No pension or retirement. I don't think she'd be able to afford a place up here, but here is where she can get medical care.
I agree. It feels very much like being a teen again. Or occasionally, like I'm the grown up and she's the teen. Tonight was a good example of the flip-side. DS went over to a friend's for Halloween. Friend's dad said he'd bring him home at 9. Mom decided to drop DS off so she could run to the store; plans were explained. It passed 9. "What's up?" "Uh. Your mom picked up DS." She took it upon herself to change the plans and then stopped by my younger sister's house. It's a school night. She strolled in after 10 pm with him. I told DS to go get ready for bed. And once he was upstairs I explained to Mom that keeping DS out until after 10 on a school night was not appropriate - even if it was at Aunt M's, and pls let me know when she needs to change plans. (2nd time in less than a month asking her to do so.) She simply turned on the TV and ignored me.
I'm done. This weekend, I'm sitting DS down and telling him he's going to be taking the city bus after school and telling her to stop picking him up. No more relying on her for rides, even when she offers.
I think it's actually worse than the teen-parent thing, though. When I was still with abusive AXH, DS and I had to stay in the back bedroom if we wanted to, maybe, avoid making AXH angry. I didn't recognize the similarity between what I'm doing now and then until I read your response, Trailmix.
Another similarity is that I've been looking for a new therapist so I could work through this transition with someone. Only the real thought process was very much like how I wanted to figure out how to communicate with AXH so he'd understand what I was trying to say.
I think my siblings and I need to talk about this. My younger sister's family already had her live with them for a while, and then Dad, and later DS and I. My BIL must be eligible for sainthood. Having her move back in with them would cause issues. My younger brother lives in a tiny apt in LA. We reconnected with our older sister a couple years after college (b/c Mom had put her up for adoption), so Mom living with her is not viable. And, well, that all sounds like a daytime TV show (and my friends in high school thought we were such a plain vanilla family).
With her response tonight, I'm certain nothing is going to change. And I think I need to still find that new therapist, because I'm seeing far too many similarities between AXH and Mom, which I need to figure out.
No worries, Trailmix. Not too personal. She was a stay at home mom while we were growing up, but had been working retail jobs the past few years until she moved here. She was getting by while living in the Pacific NW, but wasn't going to the doctor, even if she needed to. No pension or retirement. I don't think she'd be able to afford a place up here, but here is where she can get medical care.
I agree. It feels very much like being a teen again. Or occasionally, like I'm the grown up and she's the teen. Tonight was a good example of the flip-side. DS went over to a friend's for Halloween. Friend's dad said he'd bring him home at 9. Mom decided to drop DS off so she could run to the store; plans were explained. It passed 9. "What's up?" "Uh. Your mom picked up DS." She took it upon herself to change the plans and then stopped by my younger sister's house. It's a school night. She strolled in after 10 pm with him. I told DS to go get ready for bed. And once he was upstairs I explained to Mom that keeping DS out until after 10 on a school night was not appropriate - even if it was at Aunt M's, and pls let me know when she needs to change plans. (2nd time in less than a month asking her to do so.) She simply turned on the TV and ignored me.
I'm done. This weekend, I'm sitting DS down and telling him he's going to be taking the city bus after school and telling her to stop picking him up. No more relying on her for rides, even when she offers.
I think it's actually worse than the teen-parent thing, though. When I was still with abusive AXH, DS and I had to stay in the back bedroom if we wanted to, maybe, avoid making AXH angry. I didn't recognize the similarity between what I'm doing now and then until I read your response, Trailmix.
Another similarity is that I've been looking for a new therapist so I could work through this transition with someone. Only the real thought process was very much like how I wanted to figure out how to communicate with AXH so he'd understand what I was trying to say.
I think my siblings and I need to talk about this. My younger sister's family already had her live with them for a while, and then Dad, and later DS and I. My BIL must be eligible for sainthood. Having her move back in with them would cause issues. My younger brother lives in a tiny apt in LA. We reconnected with our older sister a couple years after college (b/c Mom had put her up for adoption), so Mom living with her is not viable. And, well, that all sounds like a daytime TV show (and my friends in high school thought we were such a plain vanilla family).
With her response tonight, I'm certain nothing is going to change. And I think I need to still find that new therapist, because I'm seeing far too many similarities between AXH and Mom, which I need to figure out.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Just to be clear, I'm not afraid of Mom, and have never been, that I can recall. I'm not afraid for DS's safety (just the picking up of poor inter-personal skills). But I think I'm starting to see how the dynamics between Mom and I helped to make me more inclined to keep trying to make things work with AXH, and staying with him for 16 years.
And I can't recall if I've said it here before or not, but Mom's mother was an abusive alcoholic who died while Mom was very young. I look a lot like the photos of my grandmother. _A lot_, and Mom has told me the same. I'm sure that adds a whole other layer to this stuff.
And I can't recall if I've said it here before or not, but Mom's mother was an abusive alcoholic who died while Mom was very young. I look a lot like the photos of my grandmother. _A lot_, and Mom has told me the same. I'm sure that adds a whole other layer to this stuff.
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
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Pretty sure your mom could get into subsidized housing for the elderly, theuncertainty.
Are you working with your local help for seniors agencies?
They have a lot of resources and can help point you in the right direction to find her a comfortable space that preserves her independence and your sanity.
My auntie lived in a subsidized apartment for years, and she loved it.
My mom was offered an apartment but declined it because she didn’t want to move out of her house, and she didn’t think she would like living apartment style as she had lived in a single family dwelling for most of her adult life.
Valid concerns, but I really wish she had taken it.
It was small, but comfy and there was a little balcony.
And she could have her cat.
Her house is a beast. Something is always breaking, and it often falls to me to fix it.
Are you working with your local help for seniors agencies?
They have a lot of resources and can help point you in the right direction to find her a comfortable space that preserves her independence and your sanity.
My auntie lived in a subsidized apartment for years, and she loved it.
My mom was offered an apartment but declined it because she didn’t want to move out of her house, and she didn’t think she would like living apartment style as she had lived in a single family dwelling for most of her adult life.
Valid concerns, but I really wish she had taken it.
It was small, but comfy and there was a little balcony.
And she could have her cat.
Her house is a beast. Something is always breaking, and it often falls to me to fix it.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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I didn't recognize the similarity between what I'm doing now
Of course, it's also because I find it impossible when only one party in any relationship is recovery-minded and striving for a healthier connection.
I don't care what flavor of dysfunction a person suffers from - they cannot bring a whole, healthy person to the table of any relationship until they get right with their Inner Self first. Every other connection is just a ticking time bomb without that critical piece in place or at least developing in an authentic way.
TU - I wish I had great advice but this is my literal worst nightmare. I can never go back to "managing" around someone else. I break into cold sweats reading your updates.
I will not share my sanctuary with my childhood bully; I really do NOT have any kind of bond with my mother. Like you, I've examined that like/love thing & while sort of always knew I didn't "like" her (it was mutual, remember, she told me via Hallmark at 13? ... and now claims this was a "joke"?), I was saddened to discover I didn't really love her either & that is HARD to acknowledge, never mind admit, anonymous or not. But it's also not my "fault".
Now - I have great compassion & empathy for her - but she really only accepts sympathy. In the first couple of years of my recovery I tried so hard to share resources that would at least give us common language as a starting point but she fully resisted every attempt I made to create a bridge. So did my sister. Now we are farther apart than my husband & I ever have been because they have no concept of real recovery. He sees me/accepts me far more clearly than they ever have & that's kind of messed up.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,644
Originally Posted by theuncertainty
I think it's actually worse than the teen-parent thing, though. When I was still with abusive AXH, DS and I had to stay in the back bedroom if we wanted to, maybe, avoid making AXH angry. I didn't recognize the similarity between what I'm doing now and then until I read your response, Trailmix.
I never lived with my Mom as an adult, she was very independent and she never wanted to live with anyone else.
I did live with my Father for a short while though but that's a whole other dynamic and it's not fun lol
If your Mom were older or in a different situation, that dynamic might shift a bit, but not right now.
I want to clarify that when I said "all of these stories are painful to read" I didn't mean to imply that any of these situations can be compared to anything else, just that it's so hard! I don't envy you this situation with a person you truly don't want to hurt. Sometimes it's inevitable but with the right approach I think it can be worked through.
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Thank you, FireSprite, for acknowledging your inspection of the like/love for your mother. It helps to hear that I'm not alone with that. I'm afraid to do further inspection of my own, largely because I'm afraid that it'll be similar.
And I'm so sorry that my shares have caused distress. I've written long posts about other events but ultimately not shared, b/c I felt like I was just being petty. And I'm fighting feeling that way about what I have shared, even with you all being so supportive and acknowledging the difficulty.
To be fair, I seriously did not think that it'd be *this* hard, having her move in with DS and I. A major adjustment for all 3 of us, yes, but I did not account for dealing with so much passive aggression and flat out disregard.
Thank you, Maudcat, for the reminder. I may do a little research into the agencies and options available in our state/city before I try to get my sisters and brother together on a conference call to talk.
And I'm so sorry that my shares have caused distress. I've written long posts about other events but ultimately not shared, b/c I felt like I was just being petty. And I'm fighting feeling that way about what I have shared, even with you all being so supportive and acknowledging the difficulty.
To be fair, I seriously did not think that it'd be *this* hard, having her move in with DS and I. A major adjustment for all 3 of us, yes, but I did not account for dealing with so much passive aggression and flat out disregard.
Thank you, Maudcat, for the reminder. I may do a little research into the agencies and options available in our state/city before I try to get my sisters and brother together on a conference call to talk.
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"Passive-aggressive people act passive, but express aggression covertly. They’re basically obstructionist, and try to block whatever it is you want. Their unconscious anger gets transferred onto you, and you become frustrated and furious. Your fury is theirs, while they may calmly ask, “Why are you getting so angry?” and blame you for the anger they’re provoking.
Passive-aggressive people are generally codependent, and like codependents, suffer from shame and low self-esteem".
~Darlene Lancer
Passive-aggressive people are generally codependent, and like codependents, suffer from shame and low self-esteem".
~Darlene Lancer
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Oh, please don't stop sharing!!
I don't care how difficult it is - I get more benefit out of sharing and listening to people who "get it" because it DOES feel petty and small sometimes. It's NOT.
When my father was dying, he walked me through all of the household bills & management and told me that I need to know how to do these things because my mother is grief was going to be so overwhelming she wouldn't be able to function. She was 37. I was literally raised knowing that my mother's needs always, always come before my own, and that as his enabler she would often put his needs ahead of hers which was all the more confusing. It was like that for 40 years before I managed to put the brakes on because things just got more twisted after he passed. "Families teach survival, not evolution."
This stuff is HARD.
I don't care how difficult it is - I get more benefit out of sharing and listening to people who "get it" because it DOES feel petty and small sometimes. It's NOT.
When my father was dying, he walked me through all of the household bills & management and told me that I need to know how to do these things because my mother is grief was going to be so overwhelming she wouldn't be able to function. She was 37. I was literally raised knowing that my mother's needs always, always come before my own, and that as his enabler she would often put his needs ahead of hers which was all the more confusing. It was like that for 40 years before I managed to put the brakes on because things just got more twisted after he passed. "Families teach survival, not evolution."
This stuff is HARD.
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
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It’s real good to know that we struggle with our families.
Sad, yes, anger making, yes, but it helps me to hear others’ stories and how they cope.
It gives me strength.
The situation with my mother and brother seems to be getting worse.
There seems always to be something to fix or put right in her house.
Someone, probablyhim, messes with the thermostat, switching it from heat to cool, despite that button being taped so it won’t be used.
So....no heat one day when I went by.
An easy fix, fortunately, but there. is. always. something.
And I am bone deep tired of it all.
I, too, didn’t think caring for her and keeping her clean, warm and safe would be so hard.
I won’t get started on him. That only leads to heartache and rage.
I understand why people turn to care facilities for their elderlies, even though they know the loved one won’t be happy and it may shorten his/her life.
They just get tired.
And in the pantheon of things, my mom isn’t too bad.
Not bedridden, not incontinent, not wandering the neighborhood in her jammies at 3 am.
It’s the falling away of everyday action that is hard.
Recently she has lost the concept of heating things up or microwaving them.
Just isn’t there anymore.
Sad, yes, anger making, yes, but it helps me to hear others’ stories and how they cope.
It gives me strength.
The situation with my mother and brother seems to be getting worse.
There seems always to be something to fix or put right in her house.
Someone, probablyhim, messes with the thermostat, switching it from heat to cool, despite that button being taped so it won’t be used.
So....no heat one day when I went by.
An easy fix, fortunately, but there. is. always. something.
And I am bone deep tired of it all.
I, too, didn’t think caring for her and keeping her clean, warm and safe would be so hard.
I won’t get started on him. That only leads to heartache and rage.
I understand why people turn to care facilities for their elderlies, even though they know the loved one won’t be happy and it may shorten his/her life.
They just get tired.
And in the pantheon of things, my mom isn’t too bad.
Not bedridden, not incontinent, not wandering the neighborhood in her jammies at 3 am.
It’s the falling away of everyday action that is hard.
Recently she has lost the concept of heating things up or microwaving them.
Just isn’t there anymore.
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For those of you that may be interested in how the visit went with my Martyr Queen Codie Mum went, here is the scoop....
I started writing out a long post of things that actually happened, and then I realized that people don't want to read a big book of my family's specific dysfunction. I'll just give bullet points...
As expected not much has changed. After a day I was ready to flee.
My brother is still very mentally ill and drinking. At least hard drugs seem to be out of the picture for now. He is taking his medication so he is not delusional. My mother is still enabling. Her new tag phrase is that she isn't doing things for him, she is doing it to make her own life easier. Whatever. It's still sick and getting sicker. And scarier for both of them as she ages.
I made it very clear I will never co-own the property there with my brother. It will be sold and proceeds split as per the will, or she can rewrite her will and leave it all to him, however briefly, until he loses it all. She didn't like that one bit. She also didn't like that I said I will never ever be responsible for the man-child who doesn't know how to be an adult. Nor did she like me asking if she thought my nephew should be responsible for looking after his dad when she was gone, of course she thought that was an awful suggestion. I told her I wasn't actually suggesting it, but if she thought it was unfair to put that responsibility on my nephew then why would it be OK to expect it from me? She just looked at me with eyes as big as saucers, she didn't deny she had been expecting me to pick up where she will leave off. She's got some thinking to do. She made this mess, I ain't fixin' it !
It was all I could do not to laugh, though I am sure my mouth must have fallen open a few times, when she mentioned to me about several of her friends and their dysfunctional relationships with their adult children. I couldn't believe it when she said, "... and I told "B" that's what happen's when you live with your grown-up kids!".... O.M.G..... how can she not hear herself !?!?
I just rolled my eyes when she many times mentioned she never raised her kids with guilt. (I call BULLCACA on this statement ) She pulled that manipulative crap on me several times while I was there but I did not fall for any of it. It must be frustrating for her to know that , that kind of thing doesn't work on me anymore. She actually thought walking me around her property , reintroducing me to her trees that she has planted over the years for various people, for various reasons,( all of which I already know because as you know, she has told me all this hundreds of times already) was going to make me not want to sell the land when it's time.
There was some passive aggressiveness, hard to believe I know.... one instance was when I went to see my daughter for an afternoon. As I was leaving my mother wanted to know what we would have for dinner, I said I'm not sure, I might eat with the kids ( DD and her BF) and that I would text her to let her know when I knew. I could already tell she was annoyed that I was going to spend time elsewhere, she had been standoffish since I'd mentioned it. So around 3pm the kids and I made dinner plans, I texted mum and let her know. She didn't respond but I already knew she was pissed so I shrugged and we went about our plans. I got home to mum's about 8pm. She was lying on the couch with her laptop and barely acknowledged me. There was a brief , curt discussion asking if I'd had fun and did I get to hold the kittens etc but she never looked up from her screen. This was fine with me, I just opened up my laptop and enjoyed the quiet. I am 99.999% sure that she was thinking, " She just spent 3 weeks with DD and she has only been here 3 days and she went over to spend more time with her and not me???!!"
It was a quiet evening and we went to bed early, the next morning I was unfortunately forgiven and had to go back to listening to the usual blather. Same old, same old when she isn't yapping on and on about codependent stuff she is regaling me with the 1000x repeated stories of her glory days. I do understand that this is when she was most happy in her life, and she wants her story to be known.. that does not make it less irritating to me. I've tried talking to her about living in the present not the past but that goes in one ear and out the other.
I could go on and on about the craziness, it was endless. I was so upset and unsettled by the whole thing. I couldn't wait to leave.
My flight out was very early Monday morning, that meant I had to stay "in town" at a friends house Sunday night and not at my mum's, as she lives on a rural island and I could not have gotten to the airport on time. I decided that since I had not seen any of my friends because I'd spent almost the entire time (10 days minus the half day with my DD) going insane at my mother's place, that I was going to leave her house Saturday afternoon so I could at least connect with a few friends Saturday night and Sunday morning/afternoon before leaving first thing Monday. While this may sound reasonable to you fine readers... I may as well have just punched her in the face and kicked her in the gut as make that decision. She certainly reacted as if I did.... However, she did drive me over and drop me off at my friends house. She did cry as she hugged me good bye and we said our thank yous and I love yous etc. She was sobbing and I said, "it will only be a few months and we will see each other again", she said, "but it's not the same"... and drove off. *sigh*
Of course she texted me several times, she found things I forgot, did I want to come back and get them...a sock, a kindle charger and a soft small empty toiletry bag... no mum, I'm good, thanks tho....
I had four flights on my way home Monday, each time I landed and turned my phone on I had progress requests. Once I let her know I had landed at home she texted back , " I'm gad you are back in your happy place"..... text being what it is, I'm not sure if that was genuine or a jab, but it doesn't really matter, because I AM back in my happy place!.. thank goodness!
So if that's the short version, you can all imagine how exhausting living the long version was. I'm lucky I still have hair and teeth.
It has taken me a few days to get back to calm, but I'm so grateful to have a sanctuary where that kind of crazy doesn't exist.....(until March when she comes to visit for the first time ever...let the saga continue....)
Edit.To.Add.: I did get to see my son several times, which was why I was able to put up with so much ridiculousness at my mother's house.(Since that is where we meet) It was great to see him, and together we decided, next time I visit we will make plans to visit elsewhere other then Grandma's house because it's just too awkward there with her trying to inject my brother into everything. Hugging him made enduring all the other crap worth it.
I started writing out a long post of things that actually happened, and then I realized that people don't want to read a big book of my family's specific dysfunction. I'll just give bullet points...
As expected not much has changed. After a day I was ready to flee.
My brother is still very mentally ill and drinking. At least hard drugs seem to be out of the picture for now. He is taking his medication so he is not delusional. My mother is still enabling. Her new tag phrase is that she isn't doing things for him, she is doing it to make her own life easier. Whatever. It's still sick and getting sicker. And scarier for both of them as she ages.
I made it very clear I will never co-own the property there with my brother. It will be sold and proceeds split as per the will, or she can rewrite her will and leave it all to him, however briefly, until he loses it all. She didn't like that one bit. She also didn't like that I said I will never ever be responsible for the man-child who doesn't know how to be an adult. Nor did she like me asking if she thought my nephew should be responsible for looking after his dad when she was gone, of course she thought that was an awful suggestion. I told her I wasn't actually suggesting it, but if she thought it was unfair to put that responsibility on my nephew then why would it be OK to expect it from me? She just looked at me with eyes as big as saucers, she didn't deny she had been expecting me to pick up where she will leave off. She's got some thinking to do. She made this mess, I ain't fixin' it !
It was all I could do not to laugh, though I am sure my mouth must have fallen open a few times, when she mentioned to me about several of her friends and their dysfunctional relationships with their adult children. I couldn't believe it when she said, "... and I told "B" that's what happen's when you live with your grown-up kids!".... O.M.G..... how can she not hear herself !?!?
I just rolled my eyes when she many times mentioned she never raised her kids with guilt. (I call BULLCACA on this statement ) She pulled that manipulative crap on me several times while I was there but I did not fall for any of it. It must be frustrating for her to know that , that kind of thing doesn't work on me anymore. She actually thought walking me around her property , reintroducing me to her trees that she has planted over the years for various people, for various reasons,( all of which I already know because as you know, she has told me all this hundreds of times already) was going to make me not want to sell the land when it's time.
There was some passive aggressiveness, hard to believe I know.... one instance was when I went to see my daughter for an afternoon. As I was leaving my mother wanted to know what we would have for dinner, I said I'm not sure, I might eat with the kids ( DD and her BF) and that I would text her to let her know when I knew. I could already tell she was annoyed that I was going to spend time elsewhere, she had been standoffish since I'd mentioned it. So around 3pm the kids and I made dinner plans, I texted mum and let her know. She didn't respond but I already knew she was pissed so I shrugged and we went about our plans. I got home to mum's about 8pm. She was lying on the couch with her laptop and barely acknowledged me. There was a brief , curt discussion asking if I'd had fun and did I get to hold the kittens etc but she never looked up from her screen. This was fine with me, I just opened up my laptop and enjoyed the quiet. I am 99.999% sure that she was thinking, " She just spent 3 weeks with DD and she has only been here 3 days and she went over to spend more time with her and not me???!!"
It was a quiet evening and we went to bed early, the next morning I was unfortunately forgiven and had to go back to listening to the usual blather. Same old, same old when she isn't yapping on and on about codependent stuff she is regaling me with the 1000x repeated stories of her glory days. I do understand that this is when she was most happy in her life, and she wants her story to be known.. that does not make it less irritating to me. I've tried talking to her about living in the present not the past but that goes in one ear and out the other.
I could go on and on about the craziness, it was endless. I was so upset and unsettled by the whole thing. I couldn't wait to leave.
My flight out was very early Monday morning, that meant I had to stay "in town" at a friends house Sunday night and not at my mum's, as she lives on a rural island and I could not have gotten to the airport on time. I decided that since I had not seen any of my friends because I'd spent almost the entire time (10 days minus the half day with my DD) going insane at my mother's place, that I was going to leave her house Saturday afternoon so I could at least connect with a few friends Saturday night and Sunday morning/afternoon before leaving first thing Monday. While this may sound reasonable to you fine readers... I may as well have just punched her in the face and kicked her in the gut as make that decision. She certainly reacted as if I did.... However, she did drive me over and drop me off at my friends house. She did cry as she hugged me good bye and we said our thank yous and I love yous etc. She was sobbing and I said, "it will only be a few months and we will see each other again", she said, "but it's not the same"... and drove off. *sigh*
Of course she texted me several times, she found things I forgot, did I want to come back and get them...a sock, a kindle charger and a soft small empty toiletry bag... no mum, I'm good, thanks tho....
I had four flights on my way home Monday, each time I landed and turned my phone on I had progress requests. Once I let her know I had landed at home she texted back , " I'm gad you are back in your happy place"..... text being what it is, I'm not sure if that was genuine or a jab, but it doesn't really matter, because I AM back in my happy place!.. thank goodness!
So if that's the short version, you can all imagine how exhausting living the long version was. I'm lucky I still have hair and teeth.
It has taken me a few days to get back to calm, but I'm so grateful to have a sanctuary where that kind of crazy doesn't exist.....(until March when she comes to visit for the first time ever...let the saga continue....)
Edit.To.Add.: I did get to see my son several times, which was why I was able to put up with so much ridiculousness at my mother's house.(Since that is where we meet) It was great to see him, and together we decided, next time I visit we will make plans to visit elsewhere other then Grandma's house because it's just too awkward there with her trying to inject my brother into everything. Hugging him made enduring all the other crap worth it.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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SBM...….wow. I can remember, that, for visits to my mother.....who I dearly loved...and, who I could get along with on the telephone, for the most part....
I would be praying in the parking lot of the airport--"Please God, let this trip go o.k."...…..
Then, I would be sitting in the plane, on the way back, crying...partly out of relief that it was over, and partly out of the absolute sheer frustration, that no matter what eggshells I had walked on, she still found ways to get P****d off.....
As much as I loved her...I know that if I had not lived in another state, soon after college...for job and marriage....that my life would have been very miserable…..But, being so far away...she couldn't find something to be P****d off about every...single...day. Being far away, I could screen what I told her about---and only told her about the things on a "need to know" basis....
sBm…..you cannot know how much my heart goes out to you, on this...
Yet, they are who they are...and we can only do the best we can....
Actually, it sounds, to me, like you did a yeoman's job, under the circumstances!!
I would be praying in the parking lot of the airport--"Please God, let this trip go o.k."...…..
Then, I would be sitting in the plane, on the way back, crying...partly out of relief that it was over, and partly out of the absolute sheer frustration, that no matter what eggshells I had walked on, she still found ways to get P****d off.....
As much as I loved her...I know that if I had not lived in another state, soon after college...for job and marriage....that my life would have been very miserable…..But, being so far away...she couldn't find something to be P****d off about every...single...day. Being far away, I could screen what I told her about---and only told her about the things on a "need to know" basis....
sBm…..you cannot know how much my heart goes out to you, on this...
Yet, they are who they are...and we can only do the best we can....
Actually, it sounds, to me, like you did a yeoman's job, under the circumstances!!
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
Thanks Dandy! It does help knowing that you and others here truly do understand the frustration. I wish none of us did, but we do, so I'm glad we have each other to relate to. It's a great relief to me.
This visit was indeed a trial. I knew it would be. But I displayed incredible patience (not one of my virtues!) and I learned that next visit will be done much differently. My visiting time is going to be budgeted much differently!
This visit was indeed a trial. I knew it would be. But I displayed incredible patience (not one of my virtues!) and I learned that next visit will be done much differently. My visiting time is going to be budgeted much differently!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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SBM......I will mention this--at a certain point, my husband and I started to stay at a close by motel...and only spend, maybe, the l ast n ight before the flight home, in her house. She wasn't thrilled by that, the first time...but, she got used to it and expected it, finally. This made things so much easier on me...because I could go to her house in short segments...3 or 4 hours...or, go and take her out for lunch, or a long drive, etc....
She didn't change any of her ways...lol...but, it was sooo much better on me.
***There was one particular visit, that was so bad, and she dumped so much anger on me (not anything I had any control over)…..that I went to see a psychologist over it...and sat and cried and cried on her couch....at one point, the psychologist had tears running down her own face....lol....
I, even insisted on bring my husband to the sessions...(about 6 in all)….to just sit there an be a witness to what I was telling the psychologist---because, I honestly didn't expect anyone would believe me...I felt that anyone who didn't witness the situation would HAVE to assume that I was exaggerating!! I was not.
The psychologist said that it was the first time that she had allowed that--in fact, she said it was the first time anyone had asked to do so....lol...
A question---did you ever watch the tv sitcom called "Everybody Loves Raymond" ? You could probably relate to the in-laws, on that show...(several sets)…..the dysfunction knows no bounds...and, sooo funny, if you are not as part of it....
She didn't change any of her ways...lol...but, it was sooo much better on me.
***There was one particular visit, that was so bad, and she dumped so much anger on me (not anything I had any control over)…..that I went to see a psychologist over it...and sat and cried and cried on her couch....at one point, the psychologist had tears running down her own face....lol....
I, even insisted on bring my husband to the sessions...(about 6 in all)….to just sit there an be a witness to what I was telling the psychologist---because, I honestly didn't expect anyone would believe me...I felt that anyone who didn't witness the situation would HAVE to assume that I was exaggerating!! I was not.
The psychologist said that it was the first time that she had allowed that--in fact, she said it was the first time anyone had asked to do so....lol...
A question---did you ever watch the tv sitcom called "Everybody Loves Raymond" ? You could probably relate to the in-laws, on that show...(several sets)…..the dysfunction knows no bounds...and, sooo funny, if you are not as part of it....
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
I did watch Everybody loves Raymond when it was still on. I was still married to my AXH at the time and the Barones very much reminded me of my at-the-time-in-laws. My XILs HATED that show...hahaha... go figure!..... They were so enmeshed and controlling with their grown children it was disgusting... but when I think about it there are whispers of my only family's dysfunction when compared to the Barones... I also like the sitcom "Mom" as well. It doesn't really mirror my actual life at all, but the family life of alcoholism and codependence (and thankfully some finding recovery) certainly rings true
It is best we find the humor in sitcoms like this and laugh... there have been enough tears!
It is best we find the humor in sitcoms like this and laugh... there have been enough tears!
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
I like Mom too. Alison Janney is the best.
Glad the visit didn’t do you in, SBM.
I have had the “who’s going to take care of sib” conversation with my mom as well.
It took a while and several reiterations but she finally came to accept that he will be on his own if she predeceases him, which is the likeliest outcome.
Though the way he drinks, who knows?
They were hard conversations to have, but necessary.
She truly didn’t get why neither older sib nor I were going to take responsibility for him.
“But he’s family!”
Can’t blame her tho.
Child of an alcohol addict, married one, and has shared her house with one for 25 years.
Her vision is a bit skewed.
Glad the visit didn’t do you in, SBM.
I have had the “who’s going to take care of sib” conversation with my mom as well.
It took a while and several reiterations but she finally came to accept that he will be on his own if she predeceases him, which is the likeliest outcome.
Though the way he drinks, who knows?
They were hard conversations to have, but necessary.
She truly didn’t get why neither older sib nor I were going to take responsibility for him.
“But he’s family!”
Can’t blame her tho.
Child of an alcohol addict, married one, and has shared her house with one for 25 years.
Her vision is a bit skewed.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
YOU MADE IT!!!! Whew....now you can breathe again!
I am so glad you got to see your son. It's great that you were honest with her. I also think it's great you got out some, she can like it or lump it!
Good for you!
I am so glad you got to see your son. It's great that you were honest with her. I also think it's great you got out some, she can like it or lump it!
Good for you!
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by SmallButMighty
For those of you that may be interested in how the visit went with my Martyr Queen Codie Mum went, here is the scoop....
I started writing out a long post of things that actually happened, and then I realized that people don't want to read a big book of my family's specific dysfunction. I'll just give bullet points...
As expected not much has changed. After a day I was ready to flee.
My brother is still very mentally ill and drinking. At least hard drugs seem to be out of the picture for now. He is taking his medication so he is not delusional. My mother is still enabling. Her new tag phrase is that she isn't doing things for him, she is doing it to make her own life easier. Whatever. It's still sick and getting sicker. And scarier for both of them as she ages.
I made it very clear I will never co-own the property there with my brother. It will be sold and proceeds split as per the will, or she can rewrite her will and leave it all to him, however briefly, until he loses it all. She didn't like that one bit. She also didn't like that I said I will never ever be responsible for the man-child who doesn't know how to be an adult. Nor did she like me asking if she thought my nephew should be responsible for looking after his dad when she was gone, of course she thought that was an awful suggestion. I told her I wasn't actually suggesting it, but if she thought it was unfair to put that responsibility on my nephew then why would it be OK to expect it from me? She just looked at me with eyes as big as saucers, she didn't deny she had been expecting me to pick up where she will leave off. She's got some thinking to do. She made this mess, I ain't fixin' it !
It was all I could do not to laugh, though I am sure my mouth must have fallen open a few times, when she mentioned to me about several of her friends and their dysfunctional relationships with their adult children. I couldn't believe it when she said, "... and I told "B" that's what happen's when you live with your grown-up kids!".... O.M.G..... how can she not hear herself !?!?
I just rolled my eyes when she many times mentioned she never raised her kids with guilt. (I call BULLCACA on this statement ) She pulled that manipulative crap on me several times while I was there but I did not fall for any of it. It must be frustrating for her to know that , that kind of thing doesn't work on me anymore. She actually thought walking me around her property , reintroducing me to her trees that she has planted over the years for various people, for various reasons,( all of which I already know because as you know, she has told me all this hundreds of times already) was going to make me not want to sell the land when it's time.
There was some passive aggressiveness, hard to believe I know.... one instance was when I went to see my daughter for an afternoon. As I was leaving my mother wanted to know what we would have for dinner, I said I'm not sure, I might eat with the kids ( DD and her BF) and that I would text her to let her know when I knew. I could already tell she was annoyed that I was going to spend time elsewhere, she had been standoffish since I'd mentioned it. So around 3pm the kids and I made dinner plans, I texted mum and let her know. She didn't respond but I already knew she was pissed so I shrugged and we went about our plans. I got home to mum's about 8pm. She was lying on the couch with her laptop and barely acknowledged me. There was a brief , curt discussion asking if I'd had fun and did I get to hold the kittens etc but she never looked up from her screen. This was fine with me, I just opened up my laptop and enjoyed the quiet. I am 99.999% sure that she was thinking, " She just spent 3 weeks with DD and she has only been here 3 days and she went over to spend more time with her and not me???!!"
It was a quiet evening and we went to bed early, the next morning I was unfortunately forgiven and had to go back to listening to the usual blather. Same old, same old when she isn't yapping on and on about codependent stuff she is regaling me with the 1000x repeated stories of her glory days. I do understand that this is when she was most happy in her life, and she wants her story to be known.. that does not make it less irritating to me. I've tried talking to her about living in the present not the past but that goes in one ear and out the other.
I could go on and on about the craziness, it was endless. I was so upset and unsettled by the whole thing. I couldn't wait to leave.
My flight out was very early Monday morning, that meant I had to stay "in town" at a friends house Sunday night and not at my mum's, as she lives on a rural island and I could not have gotten to the airport on time. I decided that since I had not seen any of my friends because I'd spent almost the entire time (10 days minus the half day with my DD) going insane at my mother's place, that I was going to leave her house Saturday afternoon so I could at least connect with a few friends Saturday night and Sunday morning/afternoon before leaving first thing Monday. While this may sound reasonable to you fine readers... I may as well have just punched her in the face and kicked her in the gut as make that decision. She certainly reacted as if I did.... However, she did drive me over and drop me off at my friends house. She did cry as she hugged me good bye and we said our thank yous and I love yous etc. She was sobbing and I said, "it will only be a few months and we will see each other again", she said, "but it's not the same"... and drove off. *sigh*
Of course she texted me several times, she found things I forgot, did I want to come back and get them...a sock, a kindle charger and a soft small empty toiletry bag... no mum, I'm good, thanks tho....
I had four flights on my way home Monday, each time I landed and turned my phone on I had progress requests. Once I let her know I had landed at home she texted back , " I'm gad you are back in your happy place"..... text being what it is, I'm not sure if that was genuine or a jab, but it doesn't really matter, because I AM back in my happy place!.. thank goodness!
So if that's the short version, you can all imagine how exhausting living the long version was. I'm lucky I still have hair and teeth.
It has taken me a few days to get back to calm, but I'm so grateful to have a sanctuary where that kind of crazy doesn't exist.....(until March when she comes to visit for the first time ever...let the saga continue....)
Edit.To.Add.: I did get to see my son several times, which was why I was able to put up with so much ridiculousness at my mother's house.(Since that is where we meet) It was great to see him, and together we decided, next time I visit we will make plans to visit elsewhere other then Grandma's house because it's just too awkward there with her trying to inject my brother into everything. Hugging him made enduring all the other crap worth it.
I started writing out a long post of things that actually happened, and then I realized that people don't want to read a big book of my family's specific dysfunction. I'll just give bullet points...
As expected not much has changed. After a day I was ready to flee.
My brother is still very mentally ill and drinking. At least hard drugs seem to be out of the picture for now. He is taking his medication so he is not delusional. My mother is still enabling. Her new tag phrase is that she isn't doing things for him, she is doing it to make her own life easier. Whatever. It's still sick and getting sicker. And scarier for both of them as she ages.
I made it very clear I will never co-own the property there with my brother. It will be sold and proceeds split as per the will, or she can rewrite her will and leave it all to him, however briefly, until he loses it all. She didn't like that one bit. She also didn't like that I said I will never ever be responsible for the man-child who doesn't know how to be an adult. Nor did she like me asking if she thought my nephew should be responsible for looking after his dad when she was gone, of course she thought that was an awful suggestion. I told her I wasn't actually suggesting it, but if she thought it was unfair to put that responsibility on my nephew then why would it be OK to expect it from me? She just looked at me with eyes as big as saucers, she didn't deny she had been expecting me to pick up where she will leave off. She's got some thinking to do. She made this mess, I ain't fixin' it !
It was all I could do not to laugh, though I am sure my mouth must have fallen open a few times, when she mentioned to me about several of her friends and their dysfunctional relationships with their adult children. I couldn't believe it when she said, "... and I told "B" that's what happen's when you live with your grown-up kids!".... O.M.G..... how can she not hear herself !?!?
I just rolled my eyes when she many times mentioned she never raised her kids with guilt. (I call BULLCACA on this statement ) She pulled that manipulative crap on me several times while I was there but I did not fall for any of it. It must be frustrating for her to know that , that kind of thing doesn't work on me anymore. She actually thought walking me around her property , reintroducing me to her trees that she has planted over the years for various people, for various reasons,( all of which I already know because as you know, she has told me all this hundreds of times already) was going to make me not want to sell the land when it's time.
There was some passive aggressiveness, hard to believe I know.... one instance was when I went to see my daughter for an afternoon. As I was leaving my mother wanted to know what we would have for dinner, I said I'm not sure, I might eat with the kids ( DD and her BF) and that I would text her to let her know when I knew. I could already tell she was annoyed that I was going to spend time elsewhere, she had been standoffish since I'd mentioned it. So around 3pm the kids and I made dinner plans, I texted mum and let her know. She didn't respond but I already knew she was pissed so I shrugged and we went about our plans. I got home to mum's about 8pm. She was lying on the couch with her laptop and barely acknowledged me. There was a brief , curt discussion asking if I'd had fun and did I get to hold the kittens etc but she never looked up from her screen. This was fine with me, I just opened up my laptop and enjoyed the quiet. I am 99.999% sure that she was thinking, " She just spent 3 weeks with DD and she has only been here 3 days and she went over to spend more time with her and not me???!!"
It was a quiet evening and we went to bed early, the next morning I was unfortunately forgiven and had to go back to listening to the usual blather. Same old, same old when she isn't yapping on and on about codependent stuff she is regaling me with the 1000x repeated stories of her glory days. I do understand that this is when she was most happy in her life, and she wants her story to be known.. that does not make it less irritating to me. I've tried talking to her about living in the present not the past but that goes in one ear and out the other.
I could go on and on about the craziness, it was endless. I was so upset and unsettled by the whole thing. I couldn't wait to leave.
My flight out was very early Monday morning, that meant I had to stay "in town" at a friends house Sunday night and not at my mum's, as she lives on a rural island and I could not have gotten to the airport on time. I decided that since I had not seen any of my friends because I'd spent almost the entire time (10 days minus the half day with my DD) going insane at my mother's place, that I was going to leave her house Saturday afternoon so I could at least connect with a few friends Saturday night and Sunday morning/afternoon before leaving first thing Monday. While this may sound reasonable to you fine readers... I may as well have just punched her in the face and kicked her in the gut as make that decision. She certainly reacted as if I did.... However, she did drive me over and drop me off at my friends house. She did cry as she hugged me good bye and we said our thank yous and I love yous etc. She was sobbing and I said, "it will only be a few months and we will see each other again", she said, "but it's not the same"... and drove off. *sigh*
Of course she texted me several times, she found things I forgot, did I want to come back and get them...a sock, a kindle charger and a soft small empty toiletry bag... no mum, I'm good, thanks tho....
I had four flights on my way home Monday, each time I landed and turned my phone on I had progress requests. Once I let her know I had landed at home she texted back , " I'm gad you are back in your happy place"..... text being what it is, I'm not sure if that was genuine or a jab, but it doesn't really matter, because I AM back in my happy place!.. thank goodness!
So if that's the short version, you can all imagine how exhausting living the long version was. I'm lucky I still have hair and teeth.
It has taken me a few days to get back to calm, but I'm so grateful to have a sanctuary where that kind of crazy doesn't exist.....(until March when she comes to visit for the first time ever...let the saga continue....)
Edit.To.Add.: I did get to see my son several times, which was why I was able to put up with so much ridiculousness at my mother's house.(Since that is where we meet) It was great to see him, and together we decided, next time I visit we will make plans to visit elsewhere other then Grandma's house because it's just too awkward there with her trying to inject my brother into everything. Hugging him made enduring all the other crap worth it.
I'm glad you made it through it and are back home. I have to say, I know it was not a fun time for you, but some of what you wrote here did make me laugh because I could hear myself thinking the same things
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