SmallButMighty

Codependents don't have to listen, they already know exactly what is wrong and how to fix everybody....

All kidding aside, my mother sounds a lot like your MIL Alicia, but thankfully my mother never assigned a bad behavior or a mistake to us as a personality flaw. She is actually a very forgiving and tolerant woman despite her judgement and disappointment. It's hard to explain. She is a walking paradox. She is more apt to take any "flaw" or misbehavior we ever displayed on to herself... flailing and blaming herself, wondering where she went wrong. She takes a lot of responsibility for the horrible things my brother has done. If she could see it was her codependent behavior that hasn't helped him she may get somewhere, but she doesn't approach it like that... she is more apt to wonder what more she could have done...

Codependent behavior is just as baffling as alcoholism sometimes.

SmallButMighty

This thread has been really cathartic for me. Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

My mother usually emails at least every other day, sometimes several times a day, depending on her degree of neediness or what new fresh hell she has chosen to become enmeshed in. I'm glad these come as emails now instead of when she would land on my doorstep and fall weeping into my arms.

It has been four days since I have heard from my mother. This is almost unheard of. It only happens when I have pissed her off or she is testing me. Yes, sometimes she actually waits to see how long I will go without calling or sending an email. I just enjoy the peace and quiet when she does this. Then I get a call or an email that starts along the lines, " I haven't heard from you in a while, I hope everything is OK and you have just been busy having fun in the sun down there"... I used to get this frantic one on my answering machine (we still had those back then) when my kids were small, " I haven't heard from you for a week!!! I hope everybody is OK!!!"..... like she wouldn't have been my first call if things weren't OK? She hasn't ever once just said, "Hey, been thinking about you, call me"...I guess that isn't dramatic enough, nor would it push any motherly induced guilt/urgency buttons.

Her passive aggressive cold shouldering really doesn't hurt my feelings, I'm actually quite glad for the reprieve. I know she wont be able to contain herself too much longer and she will have to fill me in on the details of the visit she had with our family member. The one I "put her in her place" about when I thought she was being so unreasonable and then I regretted doing so. I fed the bear, I should know better but I got defensive for the person she was being unreasonable about. I can already hear in my head the diatribe she will break into about what Family Member should be doing about their life and chronic health issues. Uggg

This thread has really helped clear my mind of the F.O.G. that was creeping back in. I don't have to feel guilty about not spending too much time with someone who's choices make me feel uncomfortable, even if that person is my aging mother. She gets to choose her way of living, I get to choose mine. I am well aware of when she is trying to manipulate my feelings... I learned how to pull that mommy guilt crap from her... I don't do it to my kids anymore, I'm embarrassed I ever did, and I never will again... so I don't have to be a victim of it myself if I just don't fall for it.

Most of all.. I don't have to feel guilty about not feeling guilty... I think that's where my hang up was on all this. Well I'm over that now! Thanks guys!!!

Seren

Huh....you have one of those, too?

Yes, my Mom is one of those Queen Codies and it has affected my sister and I more than anything else in our lives.

FireSprite

YES!! They never see my restraint or acceptance about the past..... you can imagine the stuff I DON'T say. I see no reason in adding to her sense of guilt or feelings of unworthiness.

However - in May when we got into it at my niece's graduation, all bets were off for this stuff too once my mother put her hands on me to try to literally hold me in place in our argument, refusing to allow me to walk away. Physical evidence of her fury over her lack of control over me.

She bullied me verbally throughout childhood - but she'll NEVER see it that way... she used Fear to control me until I was able to move out & start living on my own... "don't think I don't know what you're doing!!!"... she thought I moved out of the family home solely to have sex with my BF, I swear to Jesus..... This same guy was A-OK mere weeks later when they needed his help while my father's health declined rapidly..... we both moved back in to help 24/7 & then she kicked him out days after my father died. Now he was inappropriate again. When I moved out with him, she melted down & guilt-tripped me like a champ. How could I do this to her??? Didn't I know I was breaking up the family??

I ended up moving out in pieces over many weeks because I couldn't manage the emotional horror show.

She then pulled a complete 180, becoming a needy sponge for every little thing in life (exit: Fear, enter: Obligation & Guilt!) when my father passed away. She rotates through all 3 parts of the FOG as the foundation of our relationship - waxing & waning through stages like some extended, freaky moon cycle.

I wrote a lot about it all here:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...rigin-fog.html (FOO (family of origin) FOG)

Again, Just my opinion , but in my situation it's because judgment comes from inside-out. She IS judging herself all the time & it projects out to me. I have SO many body image issues based around her feelings about her body & sexuality & I know it played a HUGE part into why it was so easy for me to develop an Eating Disorder at such a young age. (not saying it's the cause of my disorder, but that it played a significant factor in it considering my age)

Agree again - IMO it's because the "cause" is rarely obvious & because so many Codie Habits masquerade as strengths. (or at least mine did - I wasn't Strong, I was trying desperately to control everything around me all the time)

Yep. Only it's always, not sometimes, for me. She keeps score. Our convos are surface stuff & never in the history of time have I gone to her for help or to discuss anything real in my life. I parent her, not the other way around. So now, it's just too exhausting to sit & think of things to talk about, work around the things that trigger her, watch every word that she'll hear as judgment, etc. Nope. Not today. Or tomorrow.

My husband has mommy issues as well - different, but huge. She's had a major health crisis in the last couple of days & he's spiraling in his inability to understand why he doesn't feel the "right" things - why he's not really sad inside, but feels like he's "supposed" to be feeling something. Sure, in a normal relationship, you would. If his best friend had the same issue, he'd be beside himself right now & that seems unbalanced from the outside looking in.

I, of course, just want to scream, "If you'd spent any amount of time on this issue over all these years that it's been a Big, Waving, Talking Series of Red Flags..... " I'm trying not to, but I'm not also not censoring stuff that needs to be said. We aren't in a great place ourselves for me to feel terribly compassionate about this issue especially - I absolutely hate his mother with every fiber of my being. Her dysfunction IS obvious & malicious - it says a lot that our 14 yr old literally doesn't even know her - she just knows OF her & the stepfather/brothers. They have zero relationship at my husband's request & also because I made it known from day #1 that I would always be present if they were to see her in any way. That they would never have a moment alone with her, not in this lifetime. I would see/hear/intercept every moment between them - MIL is a compulsive, manipulating liar & I've watched her destroy people's lives over & over. They haven't even seen a pic of her in about 10 years to my knowledge.

aliciagr

Thank you for creating the thread as its been helpful to me.

I keep reading examples and it aligns with our situation also. I cant really say what my MIL feels inside but in the therapy sessions she couldn't seem to make a connection with her own behaviors and how it affected others in her life. But when things happen in the moment and she cries uncontrollably and says things like ' why are you doing this to me, this hurts me so bad - all when the triggering offense is way out of her hula hoop as they say. She is clearly in pain. It really feels much like trying to talk/reach through to my husband when he was under the influence. sigh

Let me ask those of you who are sharing about another symptom?

Early on, after we relocated near my inlaws. Before my husband relapsed. I tried to do things with my MIL just like I would my mom. One day when I was out looking at cabinetry and things for our new house I invited her along. All was fine but then this weird thing happened.

We were shopping and got into a small conversation with another woman shopping. She was friendly and the discussion was over things like setting up a kitchen, furniture and this type of thing. She gave me the names of some stores I might like to visit. Since I was new in the area this was helpful. My MIL enjoyed the convo too. And the lady mentioned her name, and at one point said that one of her friends ran a not for profit where you could send used home goods and they would be used to help women starting over from abusive relationships set up their new home. We all parted ways.

My MIL talked about this lady and how nice she was and how we should have invited her to lunch. Then a couple days later she contacted me to say that she had looked her up on FB. She told me about her husband, ages of her kids, where one was in college. She knew her address and brought up a picture of her house.
She went through her friends trying to find the woman who had the charity and couldn't find her. She was upset neither of us knew the name even though she had nothing to donate. It was like she was trying to ingratiate herself more into this womans life, who was a stranger we met in a store and chatted with for 10 minutes.

She expressed how much she liked her and wondered about sending her a FB friend request and maybe get to know her better, keep in contact. I told her I didn't really think it was appropriate as she was really a stranger. Im sure I gave off a vibe of that's weird behavior, and she didn't mention it to me again after that.

It was like the contact, the positivity and feedback she got from just talking to this person in the store made her happy and she wanted more. So taking superficial interactions and making more of it than was really there. ?? At the time before I knew more, I kept thinking that she was very lonely and felt isolated maybe this was the reason.

Another question I had is about the size of the world that the codependent lives in. My MIL goes to meetings, church and has relatives. She gets involved in the goings on of others in these settings. I think Codependents often get the control need met through being a leader, or being someone who others come to for advice/comfort. (her group of women friends) but Ive not seen her have a lot of interests of her own where its about independent joy.

When my husband relapsed and I was isolating myself. I shut people out and initially when I would let someone into my life - it felt bigger and more of an accomplishment, set off more internal emotions within me. This is the only point of reference I have to help me understand why she might have acted this way.

SmallButMighty

Alicia, that episode with the stalking of the woman you two met in passing is a bit bizarre alright, I'm not sure if it's a "symptom" of codependency tho. I guess it could be, if her reasoning was that she wanted to get involved in the charity and help those women who were trying to build new lives. Maybe it was genuine good heartedness, maybe it was a selfish need to be needed. It's pretty impossible to know that unless she has a history one way or the other. I agree it was a bit disturbing the lengths she went to.

About the size of a codependents world, I suppose that is subjective. I can tell you my mother has a LOT of friends. Everybody loves my mother. She is the the most big hearted, sweet natured person, she is warm and accommodating...and if anybody ever needs help they know she will never say "no"... she prides herself in never saying, "no" to someone in need. Unfortunately she gets very frustrated always "having" to help everybody. One of her biggest pet peeves is people who do not drive. Several people in her life do not drive... and these people always want her to drive them everywhere, or to take road trips where she is the only one that is able to do any of the driving. It makes her angry and resentful but she does it anyways, because if she doesn't, OMG who will??!! ...And she bitches about it endlessly to me... I just tune it out now because me suggesting she say ,"No I'm not available to do that this week"... is met with shock and disbelief. How could she possibly ever say THAT??!! What ever would they do? How would they get where they needed to go? How could she live with herself if she didn't help??!!

My own daughter 24, does not drive. She learned how to drive a standard, at my insistence, when she was 14 ( because of our lifestyle at the time), at 16 she got her learners, and then has never bothered to get her full drivers licence. She says she has too much anxiety around driving, I used to badger her about it... I know better now, so I do better, and I leave her to figure out how she will get about her life with the inconvenience of not being able to drive. Totally not my issue. There are things she has wanted to do when she visits me in Florida, that we have not gone to go do, because I refuse to be the only one to drive that whole distance without being able to take turns. Pretty simple. HOWEVER... my mother nags me incessantly about DD not having a licence. Almost every time we talk she bitches at me about it. I've asked her what she expects me to do? She says she just wishes DD do it yap yap yap, blah blah blah, the same damn lecture to ME all the time about my DD's "disappointing" lack of a DL. I've heard it a thousand times, It's so annoying to keep hearing her talk about this and other "failings" in other people. I know Mum, you've told me... over and over and over

She just is not capable of leaving "her" people to figure out how to live their own lives. I guess when you consider full grown adults as babies it's pretty easy to assume you know what's best for them.

Like I said, she is a breathing paradox. A beautiful, loving, judgemental, codependent pain in the @ss.

*SIGH*

Edit to add: To answer your question about doing things for Self, My mother actually does have a hobby she loves and brings her great joy. She is obsessive about it. She will tell you it is her "therapy" and I believe her. It is her passion, it is a craft/art that she absolutely loves. She teaches classes in it and loves to get friends and family involved. She is distraught her kids and grandkids don't feel the same way she does about it, despite all her best efforts to force us. But, she does a lot of self care through this activity/self expression through this art form.

theuncertainty

OMG! THANK YOU for this thread! I haven't been active online as much lately because, holy hand grenades.... But I cannot believe how timely this thread is. So many of the posts remind me of Mom. I’m experiencing very much the same feeling that I got when I first found F&F and realized everyone here really would understood what I meant when I talked about AXH’s drinking. On the better days, I tend to feel like this:

Some days, the words busybody and gossip get thrown in. Other days, well…. I love her, but I don’t necessarily respect her. (Which feels absolutely horrible to think, much less say out loud to others.) So, I completely understand this:

This summer, my mom "moved in" with me. I have "moved in" in quotes, because it turns out the furniture she said she gave away is simply loaned to friends and she's put a lot of stuff in storage 'back home.' Anyway, the move was planned: she's getting older, her driving is slowly edging from somewhat indecisive towards scary, she's needing more medical care - nothing too serious, but more than she could afford in the area she was living in. So unfortunately, I'm no longer dealing with Mom's co-dependency from across the comfortable 1,000 mile buffer that I used to have. I’m surprised at how frequently I’ve felt like screaming, after she pulls a particularly passive-aggressive stunt, “You’re a f***ing grown up! Act like it!” Which is ironic, because it’s not a very grown up response.

Mom's mother was an abusive alcoholic, and died before mom started grade school. I look remarkably like her – my grandmother, not Mom. Her father died of cancer before she reached high school. I understand there are a lot of issues wrapped up in the *why* of our relationship, but I am very clearly seeing how my childhood with a passive-aggressive co-dependent mother informed why I chose the husband I did.

And I know there’s going to be an adjustment period for her move-in, probably a long one. I’m used to being on my own with DS. She’s been used to living with her RABF until she kicks him out, takes him back, repeat, 20 years. Essentially, she’s used to being in charge and needed. When you add back in her unexamined issues surrounding her childhood and combine it with me dealing with my triggers and healing from 10 years married to an abusive alcoholic, I knew it’s going to be rough. I still wasn’t prepared for just how resentful I am towards her behavior.

What I’m finding interesting is that most of the resentfulness seems to be tied to her not actually being there to be emotionally supportive, when it’s very obvious that she needs to be needed. I’m not even talking about when I was dealing with AXH. It’s like she decided – when I was in Kindergarten, mind you, there's a story there – that I didn’t NEED her and that’s pretty much where her real support ended. I mean, she was still around, still being the June Cleaver mom, actively involved in her kids’ lives, but the stuff that she couldn’t fix, she gloss over. Recognizing that feels weird. It feels like I’m angry because she wasn’t co-dependent enough to stick around to help me with the emotional stuff that couldn’t be easily fixed. Or that I wasn’t sufficiently needy enough to rank higher on her list than whoever she happened to be *helping* at the time. And then I’m angry about d*mned if I’m going to be needy just to get her attention; I do have it handled on my own.

And as I write this I realize: I’m angry about all of that. And I’m angry that I’ve had to explain to my son that, yes, it’s great that GMa is picking him up after school ALL this week, but we’re not going to rely on it, we’re still setting up a bus pass for him so he can take the city bus. I’m angry about the times in the past that she ‘forgot’ to pick him up because her ‘friend’ needed help, which is what’s necessitating the alternate plans.

So before I make my long post an even longer rant, I’m going to go cool off.

Maudcat

Well, bless you for taking your mom in, and I totally get the anger, frustration, resentment, etc.
I have thought about having my mom come to live with us, but, honestly, I just don’t have it in me.
Not at the moment, anyway.
Sometimes I think that our parents are good examples of how NOT to be.

theuncertainty

Duuuuude, I was calmed down. Really. I still am, but not quite as. I forgot she'd agreed to stay with my nephew tonight and tomorrow night at my sister's home because my sister and her husband both have business trips. So, Mom-free weekend.

Then I got a call. I don't think its strictly co-dependency related, but it's definitely passive-aggressive. Here's the transcript.
Me - Hey.
Mom - Is there a movie you want to see this weekend?
Me - Well, yeah, but this cold won't let me stop coughing. I don't think the other guests would appreciate it.
Mom - Oh, yeah... Well. They gave me money and I thought you could take the boys out. But I don't need to see J and V before they leave Alaska.
Me - Well, Nephew could come here and hang out.
Mom - No. He won't be happy. I just don't need to go see J and V.
Click.

Heavy eye roll.

I knew having her here would be a challenge. I'm open to suggestions on coping strategies. And how to approach talking with DS about her behavior. Meditation is on the list to try. And looking for a counselor.

SmallButMighty

My children are young adults. When they were younger I was still a raging codie. My life, husband and marriage were all out of control (not that it stopped me from trying to be in control!) ...so I was hyper focused on trying to manage a teenage daughter and a tween son. It was a $h!t show. I fully accept my fault in that situation and have apologized. I've talked about what I did wrong and how I could have handled things differently if I had known better. My daughter and I are closer right now, so we have had a lot more conversations about codependency and the generations long dysfunctions that run through both sides of her lineage. It's not a blame thing. It's an eye opening thing. It's a forgiveness thing. And most importantly its a lets learn from it and strive to do better thing.

When my daughter talks to me about something/someone that is upsetting her these days, and she asks for advice, I try to keep things vague, rather then specific about her direct issue. I also don't tell her what to do or what to feel. I'll start a conversation about people's behavior but more importantly how I used to react to a certain behaviors, but how it's different now. I ask how she is feeling and why. I remind her she doesn't have to accept unacceptable behavior, whatever that means to her. We talk a lot about boundaries and enforcing them. We also talk about how sometimes even two people who love each other just aren't compatible enough to spend much time together. I never want her to be wrapped up in the F.O.G. like I was.

I guess my point is you may not have to directly teach your son how to "cope" with Grandma specifically, but you could just start teaching him how to protect himself from any difficult people by encouraging strong personal boundaries. I wish I had known about this when my children were small.

How old is your son? Does he end up actually having to deal with Grandma's drama? Is this something you feel needs to be dealt with right away? Be careful not to project your feelings of frustration about your mom on to your son, that is to say, if he is still youthfully oblivious to it, why burden him with it? I am not saying that you are doing this, I just wanted to mention it, because I have in the past, done this to my kids (about my XMIL) and I should not have.

You are a braver woman than I, if my mother ad I had to share space for more than a week or two ....*shudders*...let's just say it would not end well. My boundaries require personal space and my mother does not accept or respect that, seeing as how I am an extention of Herself.

theuncertainty

Thank you, Smallbutmighty. He's 13. So discussions about boundaries will tie into talking about friends and classmates/peers, too. And I like the idea of teaching more about boundaries rather than directly about his grandmother's behavior. I don't want to hurt that relationship, but I also don't want him to feel like he's less important than those she helps, or to pick up behaviors that will hurt him or his relationships with others.

He's very much a teen and when not physically with friends, or doing homework, he's hanging online with them while they play games (that's a whole other kettle). So he's auto-limiting, so to speak, what he could see of Mom and I, though I am finding myself spending more time in my room, and I know he sees that. And honestly, I've felt very much like a teenager after some of my interactions with Mom, so I know my behavior looked like my teenage self pushing back at her, and that's not pretty.

There's impacts like the grade school afterschool pickup when she was visiting. And I've already had to ask Mom that if she wants him to do something to ASK him rather than doing it herself and announcing that "since DS didn't do x,y,z" she did it herself.

I know that I grew up feeling like I wasn't really seen by her (and, as I look back, it was an underlying issue with AXH, too). I've tried very hard to make sure DS knows I see HIM, what he likes, doesn't like, wants, dreams, and to actually try to see him rather than who I think he is.

Maudcat

“Oh, don’t worry about me. I’ll just do everything and complain about it later.”
Arrrrggggghhhh.

hopeful4

Is it possible your MIL simply felt connected w/this woman and thought she may be someone she could form a friendship with?

I only say that b/c as odd as it is, I met someone once who then reached out to me on FB. It was one of those kindered spirits things, in that we met and had so much in common. We are close friends to this day, and had she not reached out we may not be. I am so glad she did.

I would not spend much time trying to figure out her motivation. It's for her to deal with.

aliciagr

SmallButMighty,

You had me laughing although I know its not funny. Your mom tried to force you to partake of her hobby and find fulfillment in it! I can see the two of you painting together. She is making a bright sunny landscape, and is wondering why yours is a dark night with no stars. Yes, Im having fun mom. Cant you tell ! ha

I know your both right. I try not to put too much thought into the why part of MIL. My husband has told me many stories of how his mom would get involved with helping people and cause chaos for the family. There were older people at church whom she shuttled around and complained about, there was a neighbor where she didn't honor those fences, there was a set of contractors who were doing work, there was a lady who worked for one of her friends. This one was funny. She was a single mom who was down on her luck. My MIL got involved in mentoring her apparently. She helped her with her legal issues, drover her around as she had no car. My husband told me he was about 12 during this one. His mom had to get up very early to take this woman to a court hearing. So she got up hours early, cooked breakfast and wanted the kids to come eat while it was hot around 5 am. (she always made breakfast) They were kids and didn't respond well so she got angry of course. They drug themselves out of bed to eat as she was panicking and about to leave. After she was gone, their dad (who did get up) told them to go back to bed. When they got up a couple hours later, he remembers his dad saying - lets pick out what we want to have for breakfast today. lets eat what we want ! They ended up eating ice cream and and his dad cut up a banana to put in it with choc sauce. That is actually a special memory my husband has.

His mom ended up buying that lady a used car and eventually after she had spent a lot of time, money. the lady and her parted ways with her mom being broken hearted and angry. My guess is she was being used, but also that she continued to want to control the womans life as she was becoming more independent. Its hard to know who was taking advantage of whom.

I used to think MIL was extremely generous and naïve when he told these stories, but as I learn more I think I have a better understanding of the deeper issue. My guess with this lady on FB is that his mom thought these were people where she could get involved and help. But help might have been more for her needs than in the spirit of generosity.

FireSprite

This is my life too. Mom feels loved when she is needed, all the while complaining about those needs being put upon her. If I NEED her to babysit, she'd do it but she'd never call & volunteer to take DD without a pre-existing need. But when you don't need her, it's worse because she takes that as evidence of her worthlessness. And when she does things for you that you have no need for & don't want, there is no graceful way to manage it other than to accept & store the thing in a closet. Then try to manage the guilt of her spending money she doesn't have on stuff we don't want - because the 50 graceful ways I've tried to say this have fallen on deaf ears.

Here's a great example from childhood but this type of behavior is still what I deal with today:

Remember the Cabbage Patch Kid craze when they hit the shelves that first Christmas? I was pretty well over dolls & while they seemed interesting & "new & shiny", I also didn't really get what the fuss was all about nor did I have any clue how difficult they were to attain. I remember knowing that no matter what, I would never ask for one because they were way out of the price range I'd expect my parents to drop on a doll & like I said, I was outgrowing them or had already & didn't realize it in those terms just yet. I thought the whole phenomena was insane.

She & my aunt made us girls homemade CPK dolls that year which were well done (because they were great with those kinds of crafts), but no matter what, could never have that magic thing that made the original so unique & desired. When I didn't jump head over heals & die from excitement when I opened mine, I didn't appreciate a thing she'd done, did I? I didn't understand how much she'd done, did I? I was soooo disappointed - what a waste of a gift! A doll?!? When did I last play with one or ask for one or show any interest in one? Nevertheless, there I sat, having ruined Christmas for everyone just because she couldn't get me a REAL CPK. That I don't want. What. just. happened???!!

Same thing AGAIN when she did manage to get us real ones the following year & was met with the same dissatisfaction. 2 years running, I ruined Christmas with my lack of appreciation for things I didn't want but that she worked hard to give me.

How can I show proper appreciation when I didn't want it to begin with, never asked for & absolutely would never have wanted her to go through all that extra stress & work to create even if I DID? The last thing I wanted was ANY kind of doll. But for years I've heard passive aggressive comments about my lack of appreciation about this & other things like this.... and just for good measure, did I realize that had I kept mine, they were actually sort of collectable now?? So there, she was right & I was wrong. I think I was 11. I've been hearing about these dolls for 3 decades now.

The inverse is true as well - when she grabs onto something that does matter to us, she goes so far overboard that you just can't even have one more. Yes, I love that chocolate you bring me from your vacation spot but a couple of boxes is perfectly fine - 15 is Too Much! Yes, I still have allll that candy in my freezer because like I told you when you went, we don't eat a lot of it no matter how much we like it! Ugh - she's not wasting her time hauling all of that back for us anymore then, I mean - that's a real pain in the butt!

When my husband was arrested for his DUI, I was managing it really well because I had been tackling my recovery work hard. My mother insisted on showing up at my house even though DD & I were perfectly good, needing nothing & carrying on with life as normal. I'm having a hard time finding words to describe what that was like - her spinning emotionally, sitting there, sighing loudly, fidgeting like mad, while I calmly watched tv & read a book.

I finally said something like "I'm not sure what you are expecting - like I told you, we're not in crisis here...." and she got huffy & red-faced & spit back at me, "I KNOW THAT but I just wanted to support YOU". Buuuut, I asked you not to come - you came to make YOURSELF feel better. I told you I wanted to watch junk tv & go to bed early for a good night sleep & instead, I'm sitting here feeling pressed to make conversation with you. Fine! She'll just leave then, since she's NOT NEEDED!

Never in the history of Ever have I gone to my mother for emotional support about ANYTHING, yet time & time again she acts slighted when I don't run to her now. What? She is completely unaffectionate - never hugging, kissing or telling us we were loved as children OR adults but wants this FROM us & our children now.


My father started drinking at age 9 & developed drug issues from there. Self admitted alcoholic & drug dealer who did time in federal prison - he & I had many long, over detailed convos about his history when I was a teen. He got sober at 35ish & died suddenly at 40. Because he died sober & living a life of amends, she cannot see any need to address the decades of abuse that existed before that. She has literally never used the words addict or alcoholic in reference to him. But when I told her in my early recovery that I found it hurtful that having been in my actual shoes, she couldn't support me properly, she had no idea what I was talking about. When was she in my shoes? How about when you signed over the deed to the house to post his bond from jail??

And from her POV, it's probably because her previous sexual abuse far outweighs anything she suffered during her marriage to my father or due to addiction. Which she also uses as a method of measuring other people's struggles compared to her own - if you haven't suffered the same or worse abuse, you have nothing to complain about at all. You don't KNOW what damage is unless you have it as bad as her. You don't KNOW unless you struggle constantly with the nightmares of it all like she does.

I know I can never live with her again. When she remarried, I should have recognized my need for recovery because my 1st thought was - "Thank God - I'm off the hook for taking care of her". When they divorced, I didn't sleep for a week because I felt the burden of the obligations this would activate like a domino effect as a result. She was MY problem again, only this time I had a small daughter to consider & I was getting more sure-footed in my own recovery.

Meditation for sure - but it'll take a bit of practice before you start recognizing the benefits so give yourself a reasonable amount of time to adjust.

Boundaries & honesty as much as possible are what I suggest. You all know that I share very openly with my DD14 because we've been doing that since she was little..... so now, it's just continued conversation. She sees this stuff with her own eyes & ears - the last thing I can accept is pretending she doesn't, or that she doesn't deserve a respectful explanation of it all. This has all been helping her as she's forming friendships & relationships on her own as well - she recognizes stuff like passive aggressive digs & boundary crossing & even if she's not certain how to respond, she's more likely to talk to me about it when it happens.

I give you huge credit for attempting to live with your mom. We never got along when we did live together & it would be far, far more difficult now.

Huge hugs all around - this thread has been a huge help to me too, just having people listen who "get it".

Maudcat

My mom mostly tolerated my father’s drinking.
She didn’t like it, but she rately gave him a hard time about it, even when he would drink too much and badger her and the kids cuz that’s the kind of drunk he was.
My addict sib is the same. I cannot be around him when he’s drunk. All we do is fight.
My mom is a go along sort of person who doesn’t like confrontation. I know it upsets her to see me get angry. In her mind, women don’t get angry. It’s ugly and a sign of ill breeding.
As if having an unhygienic, incontinent drunk son is going to elevate her social status.
So I try to rein it in, partly because it upsets her, but mostly because it does absolutely no good.
He doesn’t remember anything from the day before, even fights.
My mom’s father was a drunk—wrecked his eyesight drinking homemade booze—and, from what I understand, not a good man or father.
She never, ever talks about him.
And I know that shaped her understanding of men, marriage and her role as a woman and a wife.

SmallButMighty

Maudcat, my mother sounds so much like your mother, it's uncanny. She tolerates. Almost everyone and everything,no matter what they do she tolerates it, "it's what a good, wife, mother, daughter, friend does"... regardless of how much it hurts her, puts her out, costs her money she can ill afford, or drives her crazy ... she bends over backwards to look after everyone, feeling resentful about it the entire time.

I've been on vacation this last week so I haven't been active on this thread. I did manage to read it a couple times and click a few "thanks" from my phone though. I've really enjoyed sharing and reading other's shares. It's been a healing exercise for me, more so then I expected when I wrote my first post.

So, I was gone a week. We went to a place we have been to often and go to at last once a year, sometimes twice. It is a common tourist destination with in the continental U.S. It is gotten to by safe, modern means of transportation, no dangerous mountainside trekking etc. My mother knew where my husband and I were going and that after a crazy hectic summer just needed some time away to relax and spend time together. She KNEW..... yet three times she emailed me.

-First to see if we got there and if we were just having too much fun that I forgot to let her know. ( I didn't even bother to answer that one)

-Second to see if we had made it home safely yet , she was worried, because I haven't checked in at ALL.... (we were not home, so I sent her a one sentence reply saying we were fine, having fun and not yet home)

-Third, a couple days later asking if we were home now, because she thought it was time we should be but hadn't heard from me....and then sent an extremely long detailed email body about everything she has done in the last week. Who she drove where, what the computer tech told her, what my brother has been up to, how the craft fair went, the neighbour's bounty from their garden, the new rain barrel she got and on and on and on...then a reminder to let her know when I got home safe.... ( we had just walked in the door, so I sent her a quick note letting her know we were home)

This woman is on my emergency contact list. If anything bad happens to me someone is going to let her know. I do not, at 46years old, want to fill my mother in on my every damn move. I am annoyed that she thinks she is entitled to this information. I think I may stop telling her when I travel within continental North America. She knows when I am outside the U.S. or Canada my use of phone/internet is limited and doesn't poke at me so much, though I do imagine she is wringing her hands all the while hovering around her devices waiting for word... in case I may need her.

It must be so exhausting being her.



Alica wrote, "You had me laughing although I know its not funny. Your mom tried to force you to partake of her hobby and find fulfillment in it! I can see the two of you painting together. She is making a bright sunny landscape, and is wondering why yours is a dark night with no stars. Yes, Im having fun mom. Cant you tell ! ha

Thanks Alicia, I had a bit of a snicker imagining the scenario you typed out. That is about how it would go if her art was painting. Her craft does involve some preliminary drawing and whenever I am there ( and she has done this since I was still living under her roof) she "knows something is wrong with this but just can't figure it out"... would I please take a look and see if I can figure it out... its always just an angle or a curve that is very obvious... so I will point it out and she will be so grateful that I was able to help figure it out "before it was too late".... oh the drama of art one awry!!!! So one way or another she manages to involve me in her craft. It is so important to her, I just let her have this small thing. I refuse to do the entire art form though, she has finally accepted that I just do not love it the way she does. I guess because it is her deepest passion she wants the people she loves to feel the same way about it. She does not accept that we don't. It's weird. I guess it all goes back to her seeing us all as extensions of herself so it baffles her we don't love the same things the same way?

Maudcat

This has been a great thread for me as well.
Gratifying to see that others struggle with fam issues, though, of course, I wish we didn’t have to.
One thing I can say about my mom is that since I became an adult, she has let me be me.
I am grateful for that.
Or maybe it’s that she is so obsessed with my addict sib that there is no room left for my other sib and me?
Hmmmm.
I prefer to think the former, but it is probably the latter.

hopeful4

SmallbutMighty...maybe you need to buy your mom a journal. A lot of what you said she put into an email sounds like she is maybe just bored and wanting to share, a great thing to do in a journal!

It sounds like you commanded the situation by giving her a 1 sentence reply if any. That's great. She cannot say she does not know you are ok, yet you are not engaging. Even if she sends the emails, you don't have to engage w/them.

I think it's important to learn to cope with people who are past a certain age, because you know they are not going to change at all. Keep the focus on YOU, and what you can do to cope.

You are doing great! I am glad you had a good vacation!

SmallButMighty

It's funny you should say that... I have been considering telling her she should write a book.

My mum likes to repeat the stories from her young adulthood, mostly in the 5 or 6 years she and my Dad were married before they had us kids...Then, there is the repetition of the horrendous birthing stories... ( Anybody that knows her knows all these stories word for word) I can't begin to explain how compulsive she is about this. It is more then the usual way people repeat themselves. And it has been happening my whole life, not just since she has gotten older.

I know she wants to be heard, I know she wants her story to matter. I get that...but I already know her life story, I had it embedded in my brain by the time I was six and she has still kept pounding away at it for the last forty years! Mum likes to remind everyone that in times gone by stories were passed verbally from generation to generation and that's how things were remembered before written word. That's all well and good, but I bet they passed on information that was vital for survival, not so much the time that one caveman blushed deep red and could no longer speak because he realized he'd been talking to Mrs.Cavewoman alone in her cave not realizing Mr. Caveman wasn't home... (I've got at least a million more of these "stories" taking up space in my brain)

So I'm thinking, if my mum feels so badly that her memories need to be saved for all posterity, she should type them all down now that we have these fancy new modern ways of preserving history. Maybe there actually is someone out there who will care that one day back in the 1960s their friend stopped by when my Dad wasn't home and then was too embarrassed to be alone with my Mum when he realized my Dad wasn't there...

Does she really think, once she is gone, people will sit around reminiscing about the minor things that happened to her that we weren't even part of? Of course I don't say that to her, that would be cruel and it would break her heart. My Dad was often callous, bordering on cruel, when he would get frustrated with her ways. I have no desire to hurt her just because she frustrates me. I just don't want to be so darn frustrated with her all the time!

I will be traveling to see her in exactly a month. I haven't been to her house for a year (because of circumstances that were out of my control). I'm trying not to future trip how annoyed I will be by day three, but prior experience is making that really hard. Because of emails and Skype I really don't miss her the way she misses me. She isn't picking me up at the airport this time, which is good news for all the other people trying to get from the plane into the airport. She is usually standing right at the sliding glass door, grabs me, starts rocking me back and forth and sobbing, hindering all other people trying to get where they are going. It's embarrassing! I am Ok with anyone showing emotion, that's not the embarrassing part... I just wish she would wait to the side, it isn't like I wouldn't walk over to her!

Yep, I'm future tripping this whole scenario too much. Hahahaha

I do however, think I will suggest she write down all her stories...and maybe keep a journal as well. Can't hurt to suggest it.