dandylion

Mandy...congratulations on your decision to go to alanon. Now that you have the time...would be an excellent time to take advantage of our extensive library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones. We have a lot of them...so, you can read one every single day...lol! There is sooo much to know.....and, knowledge is power.
I am giving you the following link to those articles.....

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)

(these articles are called "Classic Readings"...contained in the "stickies" at the top of the forum...just above the threads)

The book. "CO-Dependent No More" is highly recommended by most people on this forum...you can get a cheap copy (used) from amazon.com....or from your local library.....
It is an easy read, a nd a real eye-opener...I think you will really relate to it!

Mandy05

Thank you. ❤️ Yeah I think Al Anon will help me. Because I'm not an addict and in recovery, so it's hard for me to fully understand what he's going through and the confusion towards me is mindboggling to me that is. It might not be "mindboggling" to anyone else who really knows about this stuff. I guess because I love hard and have a "never give up" attitude, I wouldn't want to throw away the not support I have. However, he has a right to do what he wants, but nothing happened on my end for him to think differently. It's just best I stay away. Thanks for your the support.

Mandy05

I'm so baffled by his behavior. I'm guessing he's an abuser because if I asked him a question he spouts off and says I'm "toxic". He says "do you hear yourself right now?" Because I was asking him how he felt about me? I was in a low tone voice asking him a question, and it seems like he's trying to pin everything on ME. When I'm not trying to create a fight. I'm.asking questions and he makes it into a fight.

He isn't on meds. He refused to take anything for his borderline disorder because he truly believes he doesn't have it
The doctor said he can't force meds down his throat which is completely understandable. He is being childish for sure. So he's unstable. He's only on topamax but it's a low dose and it's suppose to help bipolar, not borderline and it's more a med you use for weight loss. So he's not even properly medicated I should say.

He keeps calling and left me a message saying this "Hey I think you need to cool down. I know you don't mean what you said about leaving me. I know you said that out of anger. I still love and care about you, and I want you in my life. I understand though if you don't want to take things slowly. I hope you find your happiness. Don't hesitate to call me and request to talk to me."

Uhhh?? It made me so angry to hear that! He doesn't get it that I know he loves me and cares about me, but he has no romantic feelings for me, and it hurts, so that's why I'm backing away and don't want to be with him. He thinks I just said that out of anger? No I didn't. I don't want to be apart of his life if I have romantic feelings for him, but he only has friendly/platonic feelings for me. It's one sided, so I want no parts of him. I don't need to "cool down". What doesn't he get? It's painful if you are around someone you have been with consistently for three years and then they say they love you and care about you, but are confused about being in love with you. When I'm not confused about being in love with him.

I felt that was an abusive message. He also said his head is all over the place. Still, doesn't change anything. I'm so angry.

hopeful4

I say this gently. If he has BPD and you stay with him, your life will be like this forever. You deserve more. I doubt the therapist was trying to manipulate you, likely more so trying to help you out of a toxic situation. You deserve a lot more. I am sorry you are hurting.

atalose

He’s in the struggle for his life right now, not knowing the what or how of anything minute by minute, hour by hour. And you are in a struggle for “relationship” needing and wanting re-assurances from someone who’s thoughts change every 3 minutes.

Now is the time to allow him time to work on him.

Now is the time you need to work on you. You need to figure out why you stayed with someone who abused you? And why you desperately need what he can’t possible give you at this time.

No contact would be in both your interests.

TropicalWinter

Hopeful4 speaks the truth.

You will never be able to have a healthy, functional relationship with someone who has untreated borderline personality disorder. It simply isn't possible.

DontRemember

How long has he been sober? I didn't go to rehab or sober living/halfway house,but I was confused as hell for 4-6mo and started 'coming back' to reality around 7-8mo. My gf wanted answers and she wanted them NOW,during my early days/months. Going by her timeframe and demands(in her mind she was having a normal conversation) for answers NOW I only had one to give her. "We're done." If I had tried to hold on to that relationship, I would still be drinking today. I do think he misspoke by calling YOU toxic. However...that does not mean you both have a healthy relationship with each other. There can be a toxic relationship where neither party is 100% to blame. It's made toxic by both people. especially after resentments have been built up on both sides..Trust can only break so often before repairing it is just not happening.

FireSprite

^^This.

Honestly, everything you've posted from his side sounds really (unfortunately) normal in regards to early recovery. It sounds like you are the one pushing for guarantees he can't give & he's trying to not make promises he's not sure he can keep.

Would you rather he lied to you & just told you what you wanted to hear? Would that be healthy or helpful for either of you going forward in this relationship?

I'm not saying the shoe fits but don't be so quick to dismiss this idea - we Codies can be HIGLY toxic. I have a far more difficult time dealing with unrecovering codies than I do addicts, personally.

None of this sounds so awful to me - every couple DOES need to be friends on some level & very, very often lose that component in the throes of active addiction... it's almost impossible not to. Taking a breather & deciding who/what you are to each other going forward makes sense because obviously things have changed significantly or he wouldn't be living in a halfway house to begin with, would he? If you want him to just drop the addiction part of himself & carry on like everything else is unaffected, you're gong to be very disappointed because this will have touched every part of his life - especially if he's unmediated for other issues.

I know this isn't emotionally easy - at ALL - but it honestly sounds like he's trying to do his best with the tools at his disposal.

What was it like for you during the couple of weeks of no contact?

Ladybird579

Ahhh? They in fact DID lie about me. They said I was going to do something because they are with holding his mail? I NEVER said that. The one tech told Kelly the therapist that I felt she was "blowing" me off? When I didn't think that at all!!! I even called up and said "excuse me. Why did Kelly tell me that she said she got a message from Jason that I said she was blowing me off when I never said that or thought that what's so ever?" That Jason guy said to me "well I knew you were thinking it." I said "NO! I did not!

You never explained any of that in your original post but can you see why the place he is in might be fed up to the back teeth of you both and this ongoing he said this she said that carry on and drama? Like them or not these people are trying to help him and you are a distraction to that end.. They may not succeed but they don't stand snowball in hells chance unless you wind your neck in and leave him to sort himself out in his own time, even if he contacts you, cos he's not in his right head at the moment. He cannot deal with you right now. What he is going through is too hard unless he focuses solely on himself. Matters of if he loves you, if he ever did, what the future holds for you both together, if anything must be put on hold. I get it that it's hard but unless you want him back same as before that's the only option.

NYCDoglvr

Mandy........you need to step back and detach from this drama, which is hurting you both. I recommend Alanon, which was a lifesaver for me and helped me detach from a dysfunctional relationship.

tomsteve

or get dragged down further.

Mandy05

I missed this comment! I'm so sorry! I will be reading this. Thank you. ❤️

Mandy05

Thank you everyone ❤️❤️❤️ I'm sorry if I missed any comments, but just know your wisdom is so appreciated because I am so LOST on everything. It really hit me hard today. He's trying every which way to contact me. Now it's through his grandmother. She's relaying his message and says she doesn't want involved. I feel bad he's putting her in a bad spot.

He doesnt seem to get that he can't have his cake and eat it too! I refuse to be supportive and support him through this journey if the feelings aren't mutual. I thought they were, but I was wrong.

He is so desperately reaching but it hurts me more. It really hit me hard today that literally all the words he said was BS! That his brain was so clouded with chemicals from drinking that he wasn't actually in love with me. That breaks and tears my heart apart into a million pieces that this three years of me being madly in love with him was completely a joke, a lie, and one sided. The frustration and anger I have is unreal. I don't know how to deal. I feel like Al Anon is just going to normalize his behavior and that's not what I want to hear. I feel like it's so normal to everyone that these addicts do this. It's so wrong. I'm not dissing anyone. I appreciate you all very much. I'm just baffled that this is "normal" if that makes sense? It's taking a toll on me.

Ladysadie

Please read codependent no more. Please don't pressure him for his "love" because very likely if he gets out of his program you will go back to where you were before he went into treatment. Let the process work for his best recovery. He WILL change if he hangs in there, and you have to give him time, have patience, and work your own issues out through Al-anon, CODA groups (if you can find them) mental health services have all kinds of booklets, even libraries where you can check out more information. Your Al-anon is a good resource for additional support. It's a long journey to get healthy but oh so worth it. You'll understand boundaries more, what a healthy relationship looks like without using, abuse, back and forth yo yo which really ultimately is EXHAUSTING for all!! Sending you hugs and best wishes for you!

suki44883

Give him this time to work on his own issues of addiction. Right now, I'm sure he feels like he is being pulled in two different directions. That is not fair to him at all.

This is not about you, it is about HIM and his addiction. He needs a fair chance at real recovery without worrying about you and how you feel. If you truly love him, then leave him alone to get better.

Sleepyhollo

You cannot force him (or anyone for that matter, alcoholic or not) into a relationship or into loving you as much as you would like to. Just like you can't make them stop drinking. If he really is just sober he is on a rollercoaster of emotions that he has ever had before because he used to drown any emotion he had with alcohol. I honestly don't believe that the place he is at is trying to get tied of you or make him break up with you. Truth is he needs to focus on him and him alone for the moment and all the drama of a relationship doesn't always fit in there in early recovery. I don't know much about BPD but that could certainly complicate things. And I understand your frustration with the relationship right now but what are you or have you really been getting out of the relationship that is good for you? Has it really been that great if you really look at it honestly? I'm not necessarily saying that you need to dump him this moment if you really love him. But he needs space and honestly so do you. You need to work on you and your codependent ways. I've been with my RAH for almost 16 years and he has been an alcoholic for much longer than that. I just didn't see it for what it was. I was getting something out of the relationship obviously or I would not have stayed with him but looking back at it it really was dysfunctional from the get go. Over the years things have gone downhill but I just powered through it. We had a kid and also raised his nieces whose parents were both addicts. And I naively thought that things would get better but Instead they got worse until I could not longer do it and gave him an ultimatum. He needed up going to rehab and I was the one that mostly cut contact after he had been in for a couple of weeks because phone calls were not productive. So I did see him most weekends for visitation be use of the kids otherwise I would not have done that. Both his and my emotions were all over the place and mine because I no longer had to keep everything a secret and keep everything bottled up inside me. I needed space from him and truthfully he needed space from me to focus on him and not the relationship. Because without sobriety and some significant changes there would be no relationship (although I did not really realize that as much at the time, I just was sick of his BS and continued manipulation). I have severely detached from him. He was complaining at the end of rehab how I want t giving anything to the relationship (whereas he had been so much involved in our relationship while he was actively drinking....I sert sarcasm here). Several months later he admitted that if i had welcomed him home with open arm we would've fallen right back into the whole codependent dysfunctional BS. It forced him to go do his own thing, find his own hobbies and focus on him and his recovery.
Truth is that rehab and recovery can make things a lot worse before they hopefully get better. The addict, if they are really working the program, no longer had their crutch to bury their emotions and are now forced to feel everything and sit with them etc (and often that goes for the Codie too btw). And that is very very hard even if there are no relationship problems to worry about.,
If you have any interest in potentially saving the relationship you need to let go of him for now . He needs to work on himself and you need to work on you. Then you see who the new people are (provided he stays clean and does meds if prescribed) and if you are still compatible. You may still want to be together or you may not. If he is not 100% invested on staying sober and getting treatment if needed for his psych issues I probably wouldn't waste my breath on sticking around (but you'd still need to work on you to pr vent yourself from ending up in another dysfunctional relationship down the road).
And if you just don't even want to deal with it anymore then that is certainly understandable as well. If everyone is doing their own recovery you will both change a lot more than likely and you more than likely won't be the same people that you were when you met. Only time will tell,
Please realize though that whatever your decision is, from what you posted here you really need to work on you as well through Alanon and probably even therapy. Most non codependent people won't put up with an addicts behavior and so don't usually stick around long term in such a relationship. There is a reason we stay and unless we want to continue that cycle of codependency and dysfunctional relationships we have a lot of work to do as well. I never realized this until I read codependent no more and I confronted my H and he went to rehab. It definitely is far from if he quits drinking everything will be ok. I didn't even know what codependency was prior to that but I'm defitnely a poster child.
I know it won't be easy but focus on you and do things for you because chances are you haven't done that in a long time. If the relationship is meant to be in the end it will happen. But I would take a huge step back for now. You both need it. And if he isn't into the relationship anymore ther is nothing you can do (obviously that goes for any relationship) . He probably doesn't know who is he right now.
For myself, the non addict, I know that I don't even know if I really know what love is. Because I have never had a normal relationship and obviously my view of what love is was a totally codependent view and therefore not healthy.
I wish you best of luck with whatever you decide. Don't make any rash decisions. Stay NC for now and see what happens and take that time to focus on you.

tomsteve

I feel like Al Anon is just going to normalize his behavior and that's not what I want to hear
not all feelings are true. al anan does NOT do that. the ONLY group of people that normalize the actions are the practicing addict/alcoholic and codies stuck in the insanity.
alanon folks arent stuck in the insanity.
please go. read the ,literature. talk to others there.find out exactly what its about. reach out for whatever help is available.

honeypig

Why on earth would you imagine that? Is that what you think AA does, too, "normalizes" people's drinking problems? AA is for those who want to stop drinking, and Alanon is for those whose lives have been affected by living with an active alcoholic. BOTH PARTIES have their own form of recovery to go through, and both benefit from the support of others who have walked or are currently walking that same path.

I once read a post replying to someone like yourself who was doing a lot of speculating and imagining about what Alanon was like and why those made-up "facts" meant she shouldn't go and give it a try, at least. The wise member replying said "Look--you can read about a recipe, you can check the reviews of it, but until you actually cook it for yourself, you simply can't know how it tastes. Same with Alanon--just GO already and see for yourself."

I would submit that you would benefit from "cooking the recipe for yourself" here. Individual groups can vary quite a bit, so you may have to try a few to really get a feel for whether Alanon is for you or not, but come on, what are you going to lose by trying it? An hour of your time, at most--and I know I certainly wasted a lot more than an hour of my time on things WAY less productive...

Mandy05

Thank you all. ❤️❤️❤️ You all are very supportive and amazing! I'm going to try al anon. I think I'm just super angry, upset, and sad about everything. Because I was always secured with the fact he was "in love" with me and "nothing will tear us apart". I was sorely mistaking. I blocked him, but like I said my phone has a crappy block feature where you won't get the calls or messages but it has a "blacklist" and you can see that blacklist if you want to see if blocked person called or texted you. It still notifies me with a "hand mark" symbol. So, he's been calling and going through his grandmother. It's hurting me more because I feel like he just wants his cake and eat it too. It's really annoying, hurtful, and just flat out wrong. He needs to just leave me alone since he has no feelings for me.

It shows me what a narcissist he is and an abuser. I was hesitant on being with him in the first place because he wasn't taking care of his BPD. I have a "never give up" attitude and thought eventually he'll succumb to treatment and be more open. I'm staying away and I know I can force what he feels. That's why I blocked all the numbers.

I'm just hurt because I thought I would never hear that. It shocked me and hurt me. I will be going to Al Anon and read co dependent no more. I'll try to focus on myself. It's super painful. Thanks to you all for bringing some clarity to me. ❤️❤️❤️

AnvilheadII

That his brain was so clouded with chemicals from drinking that he wasn't actually in love with me.

if we insist on maintaining a relationship with an active addict, we are likely to get a whole bunch of BS...........