Questioning AA 12 steps
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Questioning AA 12 steps
My Long term wife is in recovery at AA.
I am concerned about the "us vs them" attitude I see developing.
I am concerned about "being powerless giving it up to a higher power".
I believe we make choices in life and have to deal with the consequences... then adjust our next choices accordingly.
I am not an addict of any sort and fairly well adjusted. Easy going man.
I have been to Al-Anon and see many there as "beaten dogs" willing to "accept the things they cannot change".
I think it's nonsense.
I am seeing changes in my wife. She is taking responsibility for her recovery in all aspects of her life but beginning to point at me as a problem. I see it as an "us vs you" issue developing.
I read the AA daily reflections and some of it disturbs me as if they are brainwashing into the AA way. I have read the Orange Papers quite critical of AA. I have spoken with EX AAers who quite after realizing all cult-like activity and brainwashing mindset (not to mention the 13th stepping). Wife has already been approached by "caring men".
I am concerned that my marriage won't last because of MY willingness not to be pushed inside of the AA lifestyle and belief system.
I just don't understand the "never recovered" always "in recovery" thinking. "Recovered" to me means healed. Action in life is making conscious choices. Chose to drink or not. Choose to behave kindly to another or not. Chose your words and actions carefully.
Wife was not an alcoholic. She abused alcohol late in life. She stopped for years at my demand, by her own will for years, then started drinking again to cope with some life issues thrown her way. Now she has stopped and is doing AA regularly.
I fear for our marriage but am not afraid to end it.
Anyone have any suggestion how to cope with this? I keep my mouth shut most of the time, not disparaging AA. At times we discuss the "issue" I see. But I keep my darkest thoughts to myself, waiting to see what happens next in her/our/my journey.
I am concerned about the "us vs them" attitude I see developing.
I am concerned about "being powerless giving it up to a higher power".
I believe we make choices in life and have to deal with the consequences... then adjust our next choices accordingly.
I am not an addict of any sort and fairly well adjusted. Easy going man.
I have been to Al-Anon and see many there as "beaten dogs" willing to "accept the things they cannot change".
I think it's nonsense.
I am seeing changes in my wife. She is taking responsibility for her recovery in all aspects of her life but beginning to point at me as a problem. I see it as an "us vs you" issue developing.
I read the AA daily reflections and some of it disturbs me as if they are brainwashing into the AA way. I have read the Orange Papers quite critical of AA. I have spoken with EX AAers who quite after realizing all cult-like activity and brainwashing mindset (not to mention the 13th stepping). Wife has already been approached by "caring men".
I am concerned that my marriage won't last because of MY willingness not to be pushed inside of the AA lifestyle and belief system.
I just don't understand the "never recovered" always "in recovery" thinking. "Recovered" to me means healed. Action in life is making conscious choices. Chose to drink or not. Choose to behave kindly to another or not. Chose your words and actions carefully.
Wife was not an alcoholic. She abused alcohol late in life. She stopped for years at my demand, by her own will for years, then started drinking again to cope with some life issues thrown her way. Now she has stopped and is doing AA regularly.
I fear for our marriage but am not afraid to end it.
Anyone have any suggestion how to cope with this? I keep my mouth shut most of the time, not disparaging AA. At times we discuss the "issue" I see. But I keep my darkest thoughts to myself, waiting to see what happens next in her/our/my journey.
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I'm not sure how "accepting things they cannot change" equates to be a 'beaten down dog'? Even though I have a hard time accepting some things, I do believe that mantra has exceptional merit.
The sun comes up EVERY morning, we cannot change that, right? Are you going to curse the sun every day because you don't like to see it? A road is blocked due to heavy rains washing out the roadway. Are you going to ignore the signs, drive around the roadblock, and drown? Or, just accept that you had no control over the rain, or the damage, and take a detour?
The alcoholics in our life drink, a lot, and there is not a dang thing we can do to stop them or change their behaviour. And, most likely the more we try to, they are going to be more stubborn and do what they damn well want to do, because they are adults and have the right to do so. Who are you to say otherwise. So, we 'accept' their choices - doesn't mean we condone them or encourage them, but we have to accept that they are going to drink. And when we accept these things, or lives become more manageable.
I hate the fact my wife drinks, and I hate what it's done to the family, or son, our marriage. I hate the fact I have to spend thousand upon thousands of my hard-earned money to get a divorce. But I've also realized (accepted) that she is NOT going to stop anytime soon, and that I need to do what's right for my son. If I had not come to this point, the long-term negative effects to him could be horrible.
Accepting is not 'giving up' or 'giving in' - and many people see it that way.
Best of luck to you and your wife. I think by coming here, to this forum, you had to accept the fact that there is a problem. First step of many, hopefully.
COD
The sun comes up EVERY morning, we cannot change that, right? Are you going to curse the sun every day because you don't like to see it? A road is blocked due to heavy rains washing out the roadway. Are you going to ignore the signs, drive around the roadblock, and drown? Or, just accept that you had no control over the rain, or the damage, and take a detour?
The alcoholics in our life drink, a lot, and there is not a dang thing we can do to stop them or change their behaviour. And, most likely the more we try to, they are going to be more stubborn and do what they damn well want to do, because they are adults and have the right to do so. Who are you to say otherwise. So, we 'accept' their choices - doesn't mean we condone them or encourage them, but we have to accept that they are going to drink. And when we accept these things, or lives become more manageable.
I hate the fact my wife drinks, and I hate what it's done to the family, or son, our marriage. I hate the fact I have to spend thousand upon thousands of my hard-earned money to get a divorce. But I've also realized (accepted) that she is NOT going to stop anytime soon, and that I need to do what's right for my son. If I had not come to this point, the long-term negative effects to him could be horrible.
Accepting is not 'giving up' or 'giving in' - and many people see it that way.
Best of luck to you and your wife. I think by coming here, to this forum, you had to accept the fact that there is a problem. First step of many, hopefully.
COD
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I think I may understand what you are saying, but not necessarily agree. Yes, once an addict always an addict. There is always a chance that she will stop now, and pick up again later. It does not mean there is not healing, but it does mean that you are an addict, for life.
Now, I do believe some take it too far. They absorb themselves so much into AA that they lose the other parts of their life. You have to find a healthy balance. If she is blaming you, I would say she is not really in recovery. Recovery is all about accepting your own actions. That is in or out of AA. When you are playing the blame game, no recovery is happening. Perhaps she thinks you have actions you have not taken responsibility for? Not saying that you do, just guessing.
If she is approached by "caring men" and is truly in recovery, she won't have anything to do with them. If she, or your marriage, is vulnerable, she might. That is her path to choose I hate to say. You cannot control anyone else or their actions, only your own, and your reactions.
I will say that I did not attend Alanon. I was part of Celebrate Recovery, a lot the same, but with a more Christian base. One of the things they stick to is men go w/men and women with women in their small groups, and I think that keeps away some of the 13 stepping so to speak.
Keep posting. I am positive you are not alone in how you feel. Maybe once your wife is a bit further into recovery you can do some counseling together so you can share how you are feeling in a safe space?
Now, I do believe some take it too far. They absorb themselves so much into AA that they lose the other parts of their life. You have to find a healthy balance. If she is blaming you, I would say she is not really in recovery. Recovery is all about accepting your own actions. That is in or out of AA. When you are playing the blame game, no recovery is happening. Perhaps she thinks you have actions you have not taken responsibility for? Not saying that you do, just guessing.
If she is approached by "caring men" and is truly in recovery, she won't have anything to do with them. If she, or your marriage, is vulnerable, she might. That is her path to choose I hate to say. You cannot control anyone else or their actions, only your own, and your reactions.
I will say that I did not attend Alanon. I was part of Celebrate Recovery, a lot the same, but with a more Christian base. One of the things they stick to is men go w/men and women with women in their small groups, and I think that keeps away some of the 13 stepping so to speak.
Keep posting. I am positive you are not alone in how you feel. Maybe once your wife is a bit further into recovery you can do some counseling together so you can share how you are feeling in a safe space?
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Join Date: Jul 2017
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I am seeing changes in my wife. She is taking responsibility for her recovery in all aspects of her life but beginning to point at me as a problem.
I'm a pretty committed AA. That being said, it's not for everyone. The part that alarms me a little bit is that if she truly is beginning to 'point at you as a problem' something is very askew. AA is about taking responsibility for our own attitudes and choices, not blaming someone else. If she is blaming you, or seeing you as a problem, I imagine she's doing it in spite of what she's been learning in AA, not because if it. But I could be wrong. Best of luck to you both.
I'm a pretty committed AA. That being said, it's not for everyone. The part that alarms me a little bit is that if she truly is beginning to 'point at you as a problem' something is very askew. AA is about taking responsibility for our own attitudes and choices, not blaming someone else. If she is blaming you, or seeing you as a problem, I imagine she's doing it in spite of what she's been learning in AA, not because if it. But I could be wrong. Best of luck to you both.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 219
Unfortunately, reading many posts on here and in other journals, you discovers that after rehab/during early recovery, the addict discovers a new person.. themselves... sometimes that person is not the same that went in and as such the relationship starts to crumble... sometimes the addict realizes that the relationship they are in is toxic or contains triggers that encourage her to drink. My wife and i are revamping part of our relationship because it became very unhealthy for her and was an excuse for her to use.
AA is a prime place for predators, sexual or otherwise. There are many weak people there that others will take advantage of. I have always had that fear for my wife, and will encourage her, for our marriage/relationship to not be alone with men at the meetings. She had one encounter years ago that caused a problem... so I will gently reminder her of that if she says otherwise. However, in the end it is her decision whether she 13 steps on me.
AA is a great place for fellowship. My wife forgot that, and lost her way and relapsed. I know for the next year, AA will be her life... I am second. But I also will not be "a beaten dog" due to her actions... my life will go on, with her or without.. and I choose to be happy....
I suggest you see if your wife will be willing to do family/marriage counseling. Get a counselor that is familiar with alcoholism or substance abuse.
Wishing the best!
T
AA is a prime place for predators, sexual or otherwise. There are many weak people there that others will take advantage of. I have always had that fear for my wife, and will encourage her, for our marriage/relationship to not be alone with men at the meetings. She had one encounter years ago that caused a problem... so I will gently reminder her of that if she says otherwise. However, in the end it is her decision whether she 13 steps on me.
AA is a great place for fellowship. My wife forgot that, and lost her way and relapsed. I know for the next year, AA will be her life... I am second. But I also will not be "a beaten dog" due to her actions... my life will go on, with her or without.. and I choose to be happy....
I suggest you see if your wife will be willing to do family/marriage counseling. Get a counselor that is familiar with alcoholism or substance abuse.
Wishing the best!
T
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Posts: 11,589
you seem to have a lot of strong opinions about a lot of things. the thing is your wife also gets to make choices and decisions about what is best for her. she determined she had a drinking problem and decided to do something about it. and that involved her attending AA.
it is interesting that you feel so threatened by this. in the course of her RECOVERY it is natural that she would begin to examine all aspects of her life......and that would include her primary relationship. in RECOVERY she would begin to see everything from a different perspective - in AA it's called a new set of glasses.
it is interesting too that you almost gloss over the fact that she IS sober today and making changes. there are a lot of spouses who would give the world to see their spouse get sober and change. we cannot control HOW they change.
bottom line, this isn't really your call to make. not something you can control. she is an individual and has her own path to walk.
really gotta say that the "beaten dog" comment was really inappropriate and arrogant, IMHO. some spouses suffer GREATLY and for decades with an alcoholic partner. Alanon is often one of the first places that they feel welcome and accepted and understood. nobody heads to Alanon on a good day...........
it is interesting that you feel so threatened by this. in the course of her RECOVERY it is natural that she would begin to examine all aspects of her life......and that would include her primary relationship. in RECOVERY she would begin to see everything from a different perspective - in AA it's called a new set of glasses.
it is interesting too that you almost gloss over the fact that she IS sober today and making changes. there are a lot of spouses who would give the world to see their spouse get sober and change. we cannot control HOW they change.
bottom line, this isn't really your call to make. not something you can control. she is an individual and has her own path to walk.
really gotta say that the "beaten dog" comment was really inappropriate and arrogant, IMHO. some spouses suffer GREATLY and for decades with an alcoholic partner. Alanon is often one of the first places that they feel welcome and accepted and understood. nobody heads to Alanon on a good day...........
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I don't mean to offend anyone.
And yes I do have strong opinions about what I am seeing and reading and experiencing.
We spent many good years without alcohol hanging over our heads. And we are both very strong willed people. We have weathered many storms together.
As far as I am concerned, she is not an alcoholic but is now hanging out and receiving tremendous support from alcoholics who applaud each other when they slip and come back. I understand the concept of one alcoholic supporting another but why couldn't she lean on me for the support all along> We've done that for decades. Now there are unhealthy influences pulling and pushing her everyday that I am not a part of. I'm not interested in being controlling. I just dont like the idea of this "fellowship" of alcoholics giving her the direction she is following.
My IC told me it's all good because it is keeping her from drinking. I still have nagging doubts since "slipping" seems to be part of the recovery.
My friend who was heavily involved in AA told me that once he realized what he was involved with and HE had the power to not drink, he quit and never looked back. No Higher Power was going to rule his life. HE was going to. That was years ago and he hasn't touched the booze since and has absolutely no desire once he realized it was HIS CHOICE.
I went to her meeting today for an anniversary and the people there are nice folk... just IMHO broken. Just as they are in the Al-Anon I go to.
I personally work on myself moment by moment to be the best version of me I can be. AA and Al-Anon seem very cultish with many shares praising the "program". I am afraid as she gets in deeper, I will lose her to it.
Thanks all for listening and responding.
Looking for a way to understand what is really happening here.
And yes I do have strong opinions about what I am seeing and reading and experiencing.
We spent many good years without alcohol hanging over our heads. And we are both very strong willed people. We have weathered many storms together.
As far as I am concerned, she is not an alcoholic but is now hanging out and receiving tremendous support from alcoholics who applaud each other when they slip and come back. I understand the concept of one alcoholic supporting another but why couldn't she lean on me for the support all along> We've done that for decades. Now there are unhealthy influences pulling and pushing her everyday that I am not a part of. I'm not interested in being controlling. I just dont like the idea of this "fellowship" of alcoholics giving her the direction she is following.
My IC told me it's all good because it is keeping her from drinking. I still have nagging doubts since "slipping" seems to be part of the recovery.
My friend who was heavily involved in AA told me that once he realized what he was involved with and HE had the power to not drink, he quit and never looked back. No Higher Power was going to rule his life. HE was going to. That was years ago and he hasn't touched the booze since and has absolutely no desire once he realized it was HIS CHOICE.
I went to her meeting today for an anniversary and the people there are nice folk... just IMHO broken. Just as they are in the Al-Anon I go to.
I personally work on myself moment by moment to be the best version of me I can be. AA and Al-Anon seem very cultish with many shares praising the "program". I am afraid as she gets in deeper, I will lose her to it.
Thanks all for listening and responding.
Looking for a way to understand what is really happening here.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
One thing you didnt state in your post is the length of time your wife has been involved in AA and attending meetings.?
AA puts out statistics of their program every so often, I dont have it in front of me now but I looked at it a while back and basically it confirmed that most people withdraw from AA within about a years time, others greatly reduce the amount of support/meetings they attend from years 1-5. Possibly your wife is just caught up in the newness of it all? Or possibly she is getting something she needs or likes from the meetings and the approach?
I think coming to a site based on recovery, and coming to the friends and family forum to discuss this topic was appropriate and wise. Families are affected by addiction, and also affected by the recovery process. Stints in rehab, hours spent in meetings, cost of therapy and the like - do affect the family. And usually family is encouraged to talk about the impact of substances as it can be healing to share, to know your not alone.
In your post it was a bit unclear but it almost sounded like when you try to discuss your feelings on the underlying premise of the AA program, her commitment - then she turns it back on you - your the one with the problem? This sounds a little bit like a person who is in defense mode? Often those with substance abuse issues deny there are problems with drinking or using and try to place the blame on the spouse so they can keep doing what they want without complaint. But the fact is, their behavior is affecting the spouse/the family and they just dont want to address it.
Another member suggested family therapy as an option and I second this as something to consider. Now if all of this is brand new to your wife then you might want to give it a little time to see if things settle down.
My husband didnt like the AA program so its not been an issue for me. I did go to a few AA meetings with him initially. Ive gone to Alanon also, and while I choose to leave behind a lot of the program ideas, I find the concept of self care helpful. Eat well, sleep well, know myself, relax, enjoy my life.
AA puts out statistics of their program every so often, I dont have it in front of me now but I looked at it a while back and basically it confirmed that most people withdraw from AA within about a years time, others greatly reduce the amount of support/meetings they attend from years 1-5. Possibly your wife is just caught up in the newness of it all? Or possibly she is getting something she needs or likes from the meetings and the approach?
I think coming to a site based on recovery, and coming to the friends and family forum to discuss this topic was appropriate and wise. Families are affected by addiction, and also affected by the recovery process. Stints in rehab, hours spent in meetings, cost of therapy and the like - do affect the family. And usually family is encouraged to talk about the impact of substances as it can be healing to share, to know your not alone.
In your post it was a bit unclear but it almost sounded like when you try to discuss your feelings on the underlying premise of the AA program, her commitment - then she turns it back on you - your the one with the problem? This sounds a little bit like a person who is in defense mode? Often those with substance abuse issues deny there are problems with drinking or using and try to place the blame on the spouse so they can keep doing what they want without complaint. But the fact is, their behavior is affecting the spouse/the family and they just dont want to address it.
Another member suggested family therapy as an option and I second this as something to consider. Now if all of this is brand new to your wife then you might want to give it a little time to see if things settle down.
My husband didnt like the AA program so its not been an issue for me. I did go to a few AA meetings with him initially. Ive gone to Alanon also, and while I choose to leave behind a lot of the program ideas, I find the concept of self care helpful. Eat well, sleep well, know myself, relax, enjoy my life.
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting 
As far as I am concerned, she is not an alcoholic but is now hanging out and receiving tremendous support from alcoholics who applaud each other when they slip and come back. I understand the concept of one alcoholic supporting another but why couldn't she lean on me for the support all along> We've done that for decades. Now there are unhealthy influences pulling and pushing her everyday that I am not a part of. I'm not interested in being controlling. I just dont like the idea of this "fellowship" of alcoholics giving her the direction she is following.
My friend who was heavily involved in AA told me that once he realized what he was involved with and HE had the power to not drink, he quit and never looked back. No Higher Power was going to rule his life. HE was going to. That was years ago and he hasn't touched the booze since and has absolutely no desire once he realized it was HIS CHOICE.
I went to her meeting today for an anniversary and the people there are nice folk... just IMHO broken. Just as they are in the Al-Anon I go to.
I personally work on myself moment by moment to be the best version of me I can be. AA and Al-Anon seem very cultish with many shares praising the "program". I am afraid as she gets in deeper, I will lose her to it.
Thanks all for listening and responding.
Looking for a way to understand what is really happening here.
My friend who was heavily involved in AA told me that once he realized what he was involved with and HE had the power to not drink, he quit and never looked back. No Higher Power was going to rule his life. HE was going to. That was years ago and he hasn't touched the booze since and has absolutely no desire once he realized it was HIS CHOICE.
I went to her meeting today for an anniversary and the people there are nice folk... just IMHO broken. Just as they are in the Al-Anon I go to.
I personally work on myself moment by moment to be the best version of me I can be. AA and Al-Anon seem very cultish with many shares praising the "program". I am afraid as she gets in deeper, I will lose her to it.
Thanks all for listening and responding.
Looking for a way to understand what is really happening here.
"the people there are nice folk, just broken" - another WOW. Who made you judge and jury of the human population? We are all broken, my friend, in some way or another. Some are drunks, drug addicts... narcissists - but all broken in some fashion.
Congrats to your friend who was able to sustain sobriety - but that doesn't work for most folks.
Could be she's not leaning on you for support because of how closed-minded you are to HER recovery, and knows you neither understand, or care to understand what HER recovery looks like, and how she is to proceed. That's why they have those groups, because they all 'get it' because they were 'in it'.
If you 'lose her to it', then maybe it was never meant to be in the first place.
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Donewithhurting,
Welcome to the forum, there is a lot of great support here.
In AA there’s a saying (and I think something like it in AlAnon), “take what you need and leave the rest.” There are as many takes on aa as there are members. The steps of aa were daunting to me, and I found the surrender thing quite unsettling at first too. But I was at a point in my life where I was 10 months sober, deathly afraid of relapsing, and was willing to do anything to keep sober.
Those steps saved my life, I’m sure of it.
My fist year was pretty intense, and it was tough on my partner. I was sometimes emotionally unavailable, because I was literally becoming someone else. Things settled down after that, and she got someone who is much better to be around and much more emotionally present than before recovery.
If aa is helping your wife recover, which is indeed a lifelong process not a one and done kind of thing, that’s great. Aa is not us vs. them in my experience. It’s us vs. alcoholic thinking and behaviors. I was never encouraged to think of my spouse as a problem, I was in aa to take responsibility for my OWN problems of my OWN making.
If you have things to work on in your marriage, it is impossible with a drunk spouse, but possible with a sober one.
Best of luck to you
Welcome to the forum, there is a lot of great support here.
In AA there’s a saying (and I think something like it in AlAnon), “take what you need and leave the rest.” There are as many takes on aa as there are members. The steps of aa were daunting to me, and I found the surrender thing quite unsettling at first too. But I was at a point in my life where I was 10 months sober, deathly afraid of relapsing, and was willing to do anything to keep sober.
Those steps saved my life, I’m sure of it.
My fist year was pretty intense, and it was tough on my partner. I was sometimes emotionally unavailable, because I was literally becoming someone else. Things settled down after that, and she got someone who is much better to be around and much more emotionally present than before recovery.
If aa is helping your wife recover, which is indeed a lifelong process not a one and done kind of thing, that’s great. Aa is not us vs. them in my experience. It’s us vs. alcoholic thinking and behaviors. I was never encouraged to think of my spouse as a problem, I was in aa to take responsibility for my OWN problems of my OWN making.
If you have things to work on in your marriage, it is impossible with a drunk spouse, but possible with a sober one.
Best of luck to you
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
AA can be a very insular society with its own language and culture. And yes, you do find at times an "us vs them" attitude.
However, I doubt you're going to lose her to AA. You're not an alcoholic and neither is my wife and she's also not a big fan of AA either.
But AA doesn't interfere with our lives.
Again I wouldn't worry about your wife.
However, I doubt you're going to lose her to AA. You're not an alcoholic and neither is my wife and she's also not a big fan of AA either.
But AA doesn't interfere with our lives.
Again I wouldn't worry about your wife.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by aliciagr
One thing you didnt state in your post is the length of time your wife has been involved in AA and attending meetings.?
AA puts out statistics of their program every so often, I dont have it in front of me now but I looked at it a while back and basically it confirmed that most people withdraw from AA within about a years time, others greatly reduce the amount of support/meetings they attend from years 1-5. Possibly your wife is just caught up in the newness of it all? Or possibly she is getting something she needs or likes from the meetings and the approach?
I think coming to a site based on recovery, and coming to the friends and family forum to discuss this topic was appropriate and wise. Families are affected by addiction, and also affected by the recovery process. Stints in rehab, hours spent in meetings, cost of therapy and the like - do affect the family. And usually family is encouraged to talk about the impact of substances as it can be healing to share, to know your not alone.
In your post it was a bit unclear but it almost sounded like when you try to discuss your feelings on the underlying premise of the AA program, her commitment - then she turns it back on you - your the one with the problem? This sounds a little bit like a person who is in defense mode? Often those with substance abuse issues deny there are problems with drinking or using and try to place the blame on the spouse so they can keep doing what they want without complaint. But the fact is, their behavior is affecting the spouse/the family and they just dont want to address it.
Another member suggested family therapy as an option and I second this as something to consider. Now if all of this is brand new to your wife then you might want to give it a little time to see if things settle down.
My husband didnt like the AA program so its not been an issue for me. I did go to a few AA meetings with him initially. Ive gone to Alanon also, and while I choose to leave behind a lot of the program ideas, I find the concept of self care helpful. Eat well, sleep well, know myself, relax, enjoy my life.
AA puts out statistics of their program every so often, I dont have it in front of me now but I looked at it a while back and basically it confirmed that most people withdraw from AA within about a years time, others greatly reduce the amount of support/meetings they attend from years 1-5. Possibly your wife is just caught up in the newness of it all? Or possibly she is getting something she needs or likes from the meetings and the approach?
I think coming to a site based on recovery, and coming to the friends and family forum to discuss this topic was appropriate and wise. Families are affected by addiction, and also affected by the recovery process. Stints in rehab, hours spent in meetings, cost of therapy and the like - do affect the family. And usually family is encouraged to talk about the impact of substances as it can be healing to share, to know your not alone.
In your post it was a bit unclear but it almost sounded like when you try to discuss your feelings on the underlying premise of the AA program, her commitment - then she turns it back on you - your the one with the problem? This sounds a little bit like a person who is in defense mode? Often those with substance abuse issues deny there are problems with drinking or using and try to place the blame on the spouse so they can keep doing what they want without complaint. But the fact is, their behavior is affecting the spouse/the family and they just dont want to address it.
Another member suggested family therapy as an option and I second this as something to consider. Now if all of this is brand new to your wife then you might want to give it a little time to see if things settle down.
My husband didnt like the AA program so its not been an issue for me. I did go to a few AA meetings with him initially. Ive gone to Alanon also, and while I choose to leave behind a lot of the program ideas, I find the concept of self care helpful. Eat well, sleep well, know myself, relax, enjoy my life.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
"Unhealthy influences pulling and pushing her every day that I am not a part of" - WOW. Controlling, much? And what makes you such a 'healthy' influence? Still trying to make it all about you - this is HER RECOVERY, not yours, though I think you have your own issues, as we all do.
"the people there are nice folk, just broken" - another WOW. Who made you judge and jury of the human population? We are all broken, my friend, in some way or another. Some are drunks, drug addicts... narcissists - but all broken in some fashion.
Congrats to your friend who was able to sustain sobriety - but that doesn't work for most folks.
Could be she's not leaning on you for support because of how closed-minded you are to HER recovery, and knows you neither understand, or care to understand what HER recovery looks like, and how she is to proceed. That's why they have those groups, because they all 'get it' because they were 'in it'.
If you 'lose her to it', then maybe it was never meant to be in the first place.
"the people there are nice folk, just broken" - another WOW. Who made you judge and jury of the human population? We are all broken, my friend, in some way or another. Some are drunks, drug addicts... narcissists - but all broken in some fashion.
Congrats to your friend who was able to sustain sobriety - but that doesn't work for most folks.
Could be she's not leaning on you for support because of how closed-minded you are to HER recovery, and knows you neither understand, or care to understand what HER recovery looks like, and how she is to proceed. That's why they have those groups, because they all 'get it' because they were 'in it'.
If you 'lose her to it', then maybe it was never meant to be in the first place.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
donewithhurting......I am going to give you the link to our extensive library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones....(also, called "stickies"--at the top of the threads).....
There are tons of them...Enough for you to read one every day...lol...
If you are willing to take your time to read them....after about or month or so, I think you might find that a lot of your questions are beginning to be answered....
If your wife is feeling uncomfortable...there at women's groups that she might find a better fit. People are generally encouraged to have a sponsor of the same sex...
I wonder if she is blaming you for her drinking in general? OR, is she describing something that she doesn't like about you as a marital partner?
***If she is saying that she drinks because of you....it important for both of you to know that alcoholics drink because that is how they handle emotions in general....that is part of the disease. Lots of people have bad marriages, but, they don't drink.
Marital problems....well, that is a horse of a different color...and an issue/s that the two of you will have to address as a couple....
I think it is important to understand the difference.....
About alanon....every one of us is an individual....and, each of us gets to decide what we are, or are not willing to live with. While you might find what someone else is willing to live with to be unsavory or repugnant....you must remember that ..that is on their side of the street, and is not really your business.
Also, people are in different stages of healing....so, compassion and recognition of that will go a long way to keep you from being "triggered" by them....
Different groups have different flavors...so, it is advised that you might want to try several groups before you come to a final decision.....
Also, you only need to take whatever is of help, to you, personally, and leave the rest....
OOPS!! I, just now, see that you left a long post...just as I was posting this......
so, please take everything I have just said, in light of that......lol...Now, I am going off to read your last post....
There are tons of them...Enough for you to read one every day...lol...
If you are willing to take your time to read them....after about or month or so, I think you might find that a lot of your questions are beginning to be answered....
If your wife is feeling uncomfortable...there at women's groups that she might find a better fit. People are generally encouraged to have a sponsor of the same sex...
I wonder if she is blaming you for her drinking in general? OR, is she describing something that she doesn't like about you as a marital partner?
***If she is saying that she drinks because of you....it important for both of you to know that alcoholics drink because that is how they handle emotions in general....that is part of the disease. Lots of people have bad marriages, but, they don't drink.
Marital problems....well, that is a horse of a different color...and an issue/s that the two of you will have to address as a couple....
I think it is important to understand the difference.....
About alanon....every one of us is an individual....and, each of us gets to decide what we are, or are not willing to live with. While you might find what someone else is willing to live with to be unsavory or repugnant....you must remember that ..that is on their side of the street, and is not really your business.
Also, people are in different stages of healing....so, compassion and recognition of that will go a long way to keep you from being "triggered" by them....
Different groups have different flavors...so, it is advised that you might want to try several groups before you come to a final decision.....
Also, you only need to take whatever is of help, to you, personally, and leave the rest....
OOPS!! I, just now, see that you left a long post...just as I was posting this......
so, please take everything I have just said, in light of that......lol...Now, I am going off to read your last post....
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
dwh, have you gone over to the alcoholics' sections of the forum at all yet? You might get some good input over there, too. Also, have you attended any open meetings of AA? That would be another way to get some insight into both alcoholism and recovery from it.
W/that said: There is no central oversight of any specific AA/Alanon group. No one screens people before admitting them to a group. Some folks have been around for a while and are fairly far along their recovery path while others are still very new. Some folks are relatively healthy, and some have deep-seated, major problems that need WAY more than a 12-step program to address. If one or several of these people w/major issues are involved in a particular AA/Alanon group, he/she/they can have a profound effect on the dynamics of that group.
I’ve been to a lot of Alanon meetings and have seen some individuals and some groups that clearly have major problems, and are NOT carrying the Alanon message as I think it was intended to be carried. However, that is NOT the fault of the program, and I feel that some do indeed throw the baby out w/the bathwater when they encounter this sort of situation, assuming that Alanon as a whole is useless or "a cult", as you mention.
I have felt the same frustration that you apparently feel when sitting in an Alanon meeting, listening to one of the people you’d categorize as “broken.” Then I remember—not all that long ago, I was one of those “broken” people too. And then I also remember—who said I am anywhere near wise enough to tell others how to live their lives? Do I REALLY think I can tell someone else what is best for them, or where they should be in their recovery? One of the things Alanon has taught me is that no, I don’t get to run anyone else’s life but my own.
Take what you find helpful, dwh, and leave the rest.
W/that said: There is no central oversight of any specific AA/Alanon group. No one screens people before admitting them to a group. Some folks have been around for a while and are fairly far along their recovery path while others are still very new. Some folks are relatively healthy, and some have deep-seated, major problems that need WAY more than a 12-step program to address. If one or several of these people w/major issues are involved in a particular AA/Alanon group, he/she/they can have a profound effect on the dynamics of that group.
I’ve been to a lot of Alanon meetings and have seen some individuals and some groups that clearly have major problems, and are NOT carrying the Alanon message as I think it was intended to be carried. However, that is NOT the fault of the program, and I feel that some do indeed throw the baby out w/the bathwater when they encounter this sort of situation, assuming that Alanon as a whole is useless or "a cult", as you mention.
I have felt the same frustration that you apparently feel when sitting in an Alanon meeting, listening to one of the people you’d categorize as “broken.” Then I remember—not all that long ago, I was one of those “broken” people too. And then I also remember—who said I am anywhere near wise enough to tell others how to live their lives? Do I REALLY think I can tell someone else what is best for them, or where they should be in their recovery? One of the things Alanon has taught me is that no, I don’t get to run anyone else’s life but my own.
Take what you find helpful, dwh, and leave the rest.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
[I] I dont see how that is a good environment to get sucked into as THE lifelong way to handle something that a person should be able to handle by making and sticking to a choice.[/I]
This is an assumption made by people who frankly don't understand the nature of alcoholism. It doesn't work like that. The alcoholic needs constant support to make that choice every single day. It's not a one and done thing. I would seriously suggest taking some time to learn about alcoholism and maybe be a little more open minded about what it's like to be in someone else's shoes.
This is an assumption made by people who frankly don't understand the nature of alcoholism. It doesn't work like that. The alcoholic needs constant support to make that choice every single day. It's not a one and done thing. I would seriously suggest taking some time to learn about alcoholism and maybe be a little more open minded about what it's like to be in someone else's shoes.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by BlownOne
[I] I dont see how that is a good environment to get sucked into as THE lifelong way to handle something that a person should be able to handle by making and sticking to a choice.[/I]
This is an assumption made by people who frankly don't understand the nature of alcoholism. It doesn't work like that. The alcoholic needs constant support to make that choice every single day. It's not a one and done thing. I would seriously suggest taking some time to learn about alcoholism and maybe be a little more open minded about what it's like to be in someone else's shoes.
This is an assumption made by people who frankly don't understand the nature of alcoholism. It doesn't work like that. The alcoholic needs constant support to make that choice every single day. It's not a one and done thing. I would seriously suggest taking some time to learn about alcoholism and maybe be a little more open minded about what it's like to be in someone else's shoes.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
donewithhurting.....O.K. I just read your latest posts.
My honest feedback is that...yes, you do sound controlling in your attitude toward her.
Now..lol...I have been around long enough that you probably will probably regard my "feedback" about as much as you would a cold bucket of water in the face.....
And, I do think that you are woefully uninformed and very emotional about the whole subject of AA and alanon...(not unusual...as a lot of people are)....
So, I go back to my first post , to you. Read all the articles with an open mind....
There is sooo much to learn.
Knowledge is power....
Also, If you haven't read it...I would suggest "Co-dependent No More"....It is an easy read, and I think it could be thought provoking, for you....you can get it on amazon.com.....
My honest feedback is that...yes, you do sound controlling in your attitude toward her.
Now..lol...I have been around long enough that you probably will probably regard my "feedback" about as much as you would a cold bucket of water in the face.....
And, I do think that you are woefully uninformed and very emotional about the whole subject of AA and alanon...(not unusual...as a lot of people are)....
So, I go back to my first post , to you. Read all the articles with an open mind....
There is sooo much to learn.
Knowledge is power....
Also, If you haven't read it...I would suggest "Co-dependent No More"....It is an easy read, and I think it could be thought provoking, for you....you can get it on amazon.com.....
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