Questioning AA 12 steps
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Originally Posted by Hangnbyathread 
She ended up with another man she met in AA. Made it a HUGELY easier to end it. She wanted to be with him, so less energy expended on arguing with me about the why it was over part. I owe him a debt of gratitude.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
Ask yourself what YOUR motive is in wanting your wife to stop AA. I detect fear. We call self-centered fear: fear of loosing what you have or not getting what you demand.
The booze at times brings out a monster.
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[QUOTE=dandylion;6769682]Yes. I have read the Orange Papers.....I felt that it was almost like reading a hate group manifesto....
AA is for those who want to stay sober. and, it is nobody else's business.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. It's the business of the drunk's family that has to deal with the insanity of alcoholism.
AA is for those who want to stay sober. and, it is nobody else's business.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. It's the business of the drunk's family that has to deal with the insanity of alcoholism.
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting
I just don't like the cult-like messages given in the daily reflections, Big Book and by some of the members.
can you show us what you mean by cult like messages in all 3? give us examples?
maybe we can help with a new set of glasses as to whats being said.
this is quite understandable,too.
i didnt understand what the BB and DR were saying either. i had to have someone explain it in plain english.
but i never read or felt either had cult like messages.
and ive read both a few times
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting
Thus the fear and insecurity.
But there are "players" out there who will make their way into those vulnerable and well meaning hearts.
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting
Fear of being knifed in the middle of the night by a raging alcoholic!
The booze at times brings out a monster.
The booze at times brings out a monster.
You 'seem' to want her sober, but on your terms. Doesn't work that way.
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
you dont have to. however, i will ask again:
can you show us what you mean by cult like messages in all 3? give us examples?
can you show us what you mean by cult like messages in all 3? give us examples?
The unity of Alcoholics Anonymous is the most cherished quality our Society has. . . . We stay whole, or A.A. dies.
— TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 129
Our Traditions are key elements in the ego deflation process necessary to achieve and maintain sobriety in Alcoholics Anonymous. Placing our common welfare first reminds me not to become a healer in this program; I am still one of the patients. Self-effacing elders built the ward. Without it, I doubt I would be alive. Without the group, few alcoholics would recover.
The active role in renewed surrender of will enables me to step aside from the need to dominate, the desire for recognition, both of which played so great a part in my active alcoholism. Deferring my personal desires for the greater good of group growth contributes toward A.A. unity that is central to all recovery. It helps me to remember that the whole is greater than the sum of all its parts.
WHAT WE NEED-EACH OTHER
UNITED WE STAND
The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
— ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, p. 30
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Nonsense. It's the business of the drunk's family that has to deal with the insanity of alcoholism.
Nope. That's what Al anon is for...us and friends and others who are affected. We deal with our stuff. They deal with theirs.
Nope. That's what Al anon is for...us and friends and others who are affected. We deal with our stuff. They deal with theirs.
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The need each other because they are truly the only ones that understand each other! Unless you've had breast cancer, can you really, truly know what a patient is going thru and feeling? NO, you can't.
They also need the group because they help each other, guide each other, and support each other. Alcoholics are damn SELFISH, and this part helps them to realize that they are NOT the center of the world - as was the case when they are/were drinking.
Have somewhat of an open mind, for Pete's sake. You sound about as narcissistic as the alcoholic themself.
They also need the group because they help each other, guide each other, and support each other. Alcoholics are damn SELFISH, and this part helps them to realize that they are NOT the center of the world - as was the case when they are/were drinking.
Have somewhat of an open mind, for Pete's sake. You sound about as narcissistic as the alcoholic themself.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
There are "players" everywhere - trust me, as a woman I'm well aware of this fact. I would not feel any more vulnerable in an AA meeting than I would just about anywhere else I go.
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lets get the forst tradition down right first:
Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon AA unity.
now, and understanding:
each member is a small part of a whole,a whole that any member is free to leave at any time. a whole that says you are free to believe what you want, do what you want, go where you want,say what you want.- we only have suggestions( with that word-suggest- is used quite a bit on the big book).
everything after
TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 129
is one persons opinion
did you notice how the word "me" was used in that?
next
Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon AA unity.
now, and understanding:
each member is a small part of a whole,a whole that any member is free to leave at any time. a whole that says you are free to believe what you want, do what you want, go where you want,say what you want.- we only have suggestions( with that word-suggest- is used quite a bit on the big book).
everything after
TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 129
is one persons opinion
did you notice how the word "me" was used in that?
next
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting
From what I have read and heard there are real sickos in some of the rooms that are there to specifically target the new and vulnerable and they do it slowly and over time often without the victim knowing it's happening.
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
Then if she is fully engaged in the program (as she hopefully is/should be) then there won't be anymore booze, and no more raging alcoholics! So, you're in essence contradicting yourself.
You 'seem' to want her sober, but on your terms. Doesn't work that way.
You 'seem' to want her sober, but on your terms. Doesn't work that way.
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
The same can be said of bowling leagues, softball leagues, and at the office.
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting
From what I have read and heard there are real sickos in some of the rooms that are there to specifically target the new and vulnerable and they do it slowly and over time often without the victim knowing it's happening.
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting
From what I have read and heard there are real sickos in some of the rooms that are there to specifically target the new and vulnerable and they do it slowly and over time often without the victim knowing it's happening.
not to mention people in every other walk of life, taking advantage of their patients/clients/other vulnerable people. Would you deny her or yourself medical care or education b/c some of those people might be "real sickos"?
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting
So far no booze, no outbursts. Thats very very good. I'm concerned about the dependance on "the program".
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