When did you know you had to get off the ride?
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Originally Posted by Lilro 
Hey Redatlanta!!
It's crazy how you just one day SNAP, right?!?!?!? After all the BS and the smallest thing sets you off and running.... Love that!!!
Head up girl... You are on your way!!! Go, Go, Go.........
It's crazy how you just one day SNAP, right?!?!?!? After all the BS and the smallest thing sets you off and running.... Love that!!!
Head up girl... You are on your way!!! Go, Go, Go.........
Thing is when the addictions are gone, our expectation is that all will change. xRAH recovered from his drinking relapse 4 years ago. Then he decided to "really" get clean and cease pain management.
That's been a year ago. Now I have the "real" person. The real person is the same person except that the behavior has intensified. There is no longer a substance there that alters the person, nor an excuse as to why that person does, or doesn't do certain things.
The real RAH is selfish and egocentric. Entitled. The real person believes he deserves a life free of aggravation, hardship, or responsibility. There is only two ways to achieve that (to a point). You either have enough money to hire people to handle those things for you, OR you find a person who is willing to take that task on for you (and often times that other person really has no idea WHAT is being assigned to them). One of the things that xRAH said during the discussions of this break up was "You shouldn't have done things for me if you expected something in return. You should do things for someone because you WANT to not because you expect to get something out of it".
He has a point there. Why do we do things for people? Certainly people DO do things for others with intentions that are for a purpose that might be a bit, or a lot, nefarious.
Anything I did, and I did some unbelievable things for him, and I DID expect something in return. Its not a dollar amount its not even an action amount.
I expected equality. That's it. I expected that the things that meant something to me would mean something to him, would be as important to him as his issues, wants, and desires in life were to me. My feelings, my wants, my desires......they have never been a priority to this person. Yet not only were his a priority to ME, they were expected to be. What I got in return for that.......was little. Bad on me for accepting this EVER.
Love is an action word, it is a verb. Its not just something you say. It needs to be demonstrated beyond opening your mouth, and uttering the word, without backing it up in action.
At the end of it all, I have spent 6 years with a person who doesn't know me at all. Really, doesn't have a clue who I am, and was given a hall pass the entire time.
Allowing this to go on is not only horrible and life sucking for me, its really the worst thing I could do for him. The kindest thing I can do for this man is to do what I am doing so he have a chance at standing on his own two feet, picking a path in life that is one of service rather than siphoning, and actually develop some self esteem so that maybe, just maybe, he can finally, REALLY recover. Whether he does, or not is not my business anymore.
Could down to freedom 4 days.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
Originally Posted by redatlanta
Aw thanks Lilro! Someone that I love and respect recently wrote me on this subject.
Thing is when the addictions are gone, our expectation is that all will change. xRAH recovered from his drinking relapse 4 years ago. Then he decided to "really" get clean and cease pain management.
That's been a year ago. Now I have the "real" person. The real person is the same person except that the behavior has intensified. There is no longer a substance there that alters the person, nor an excuse as to why that person does, or doesn't do certain things.
The real RAH is selfish and egocentric. Entitled. The real person believes he deserves a life free of aggravation, hardship, or responsibility. There is only two ways to achieve that (to a point). You either have enough money to hire people to handle those things for you, OR you find a person who is willing to take that task on for you (and often times that other person really has no idea WHAT is being assigned to them). One of the things that xRAH said during the discussions of this break up was "You shouldn't have done things for me if you expected something in return. You should do things for someone because you WANT to not because you expect to get something out of it".
He has a point there. Why do we do things for people? Certainly people DO do things for others with intentions that are for a purpose that might be a bit, or a lot, nefarious.
Anything I did, and I did some unbelievable things for him, and I DID expect something in return. Its not a dollar amount its not even an action amount.
I expected equality. That's it. I expected that the things that meant something to me would mean something to him, would be as important to him as his issues, wants, and desires in life were to me. My feelings, my wants, my desires......they have never been a priority to this person. Yet not only were his a priority to ME, they were expected to be. What I got in return for that.......was little. Bad on me for accepting this EVER.
Love is an action word, it is a verb. Its not just something you say. It needs to be demonstrated beyond opening your mouth, and uttering the word, without backing it up in action.
At the end of it all, I have spent 6 years with a person who doesn't know me at all. Really, doesn't have a clue who I am, and was given a hall pass the entire time.
Allowing this to go on is not only horrible and life sucking for me, its really the worst thing I could do for him. The kindest thing I can do for this man is to do what I am doing so he have a chance at standing on his own two feet, picking a path in life that is one of service rather than siphoning, and actually develop some self esteem so that maybe, just maybe, he can finally, REALLY recover. Whether he does, or not is not my business anymore.
Could down to freedom 4 days.
Thing is when the addictions are gone, our expectation is that all will change. xRAH recovered from his drinking relapse 4 years ago. Then he decided to "really" get clean and cease pain management.
That's been a year ago. Now I have the "real" person. The real person is the same person except that the behavior has intensified. There is no longer a substance there that alters the person, nor an excuse as to why that person does, or doesn't do certain things.
The real RAH is selfish and egocentric. Entitled. The real person believes he deserves a life free of aggravation, hardship, or responsibility. There is only two ways to achieve that (to a point). You either have enough money to hire people to handle those things for you, OR you find a person who is willing to take that task on for you (and often times that other person really has no idea WHAT is being assigned to them). One of the things that xRAH said during the discussions of this break up was "You shouldn't have done things for me if you expected something in return. You should do things for someone because you WANT to not because you expect to get something out of it".
He has a point there. Why do we do things for people? Certainly people DO do things for others with intentions that are for a purpose that might be a bit, or a lot, nefarious.
Anything I did, and I did some unbelievable things for him, and I DID expect something in return. Its not a dollar amount its not even an action amount.
I expected equality. That's it. I expected that the things that meant something to me would mean something to him, would be as important to him as his issues, wants, and desires in life were to me. My feelings, my wants, my desires......they have never been a priority to this person. Yet not only were his a priority to ME, they were expected to be. What I got in return for that.......was little. Bad on me for accepting this EVER.
Love is an action word, it is a verb. Its not just something you say. It needs to be demonstrated beyond opening your mouth, and uttering the word, without backing it up in action.
At the end of it all, I have spent 6 years with a person who doesn't know me at all. Really, doesn't have a clue who I am, and was given a hall pass the entire time.
Allowing this to go on is not only horrible and life sucking for me, its really the worst thing I could do for him. The kindest thing I can do for this man is to do what I am doing so he have a chance at standing on his own two feet, picking a path in life that is one of service rather than siphoning, and actually develop some self esteem so that maybe, just maybe, he can finally, REALLY recover. Whether he does, or not is not my business anymore.
Could down to freedom 4 days.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Tried to do something normal with the Abf to ring in 2017 where we could be social and around people, but instead ended the night finding him sneaking drinks at the gathering we attended and spending the wee hours of the morning dealing with the tornado aftermath.
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Smarie78
Surely there was a moment of poignancy or...epiphany that stopped you dead in your tracks where staying became more painful then leaving. When did that moment happen for you? Has it?
However, a sense of calm entered my body last week after yet another rant and shenanigans. Typical stuff for him really, but this time it was different for ME. I had a feeling of calm come over me and called an attorney the next day. No anger, just sadness for us and hope for me. I chose hope.
This past week has felt like such a relief-I'm leaving. I'm really, really leaving. I loved him with my entire bleeding heart to no avail. for years. It was exhausting and I am so tired of returning to an empty well for water.
So, as others have said, it was a cumulation of years of sadness and then one moment of clarity.
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miles from Nowhere
Posts: 396
Wow DD, I can see how you folks with alcoholic parents, wonder why anyone would ever choose to be in a relationship with an A.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
Originally Posted by redatlanta
The defining moment came on vacation last summer. We were sitting outside at my beach house and he said "I love being on vacation". I turned to him and said without thinking or prep, or anything just blurted "This isn't a vacation to me. I had to pack, load the car, drive, listen to you talk the whole way, stop at the grocery on the way in, get the food, load it, put it up, and also do everything here necessary including prepare all meals. This isn't vacation for me, its work and I am exhausted".
His response: "The Joy on your partner's face should be enough for you".
Done. I am a mother and a non-paid employee to a person who feels entitled to play 24/7 while I provide the gas.
In process of getting out now.
His response: "The Joy on your partner's face should be enough for you".
Done. I am a mother and a non-paid employee to a person who feels entitled to play 24/7 while I provide the gas.
In process of getting out now.
I just had a grueling couple of days of work in two different cities. I came in at 10:45pm utterly exhausted. He stunk of pee, and the house stunk of poo because he had given the dog something that gave her diarrhea and she went in the living room. The kitchen looked like it had exploded with old food and dishes all over the place. What was right in its place, however, was a bottle of vodka right at his feet in the chair that he sits in (and is ruining with emission of bodily fluids).
Oh, and his brother was there--the one who always walks in and just takes stuff out of the refrigerator at will because he thinks he's entitled
I think of the quote cited by Gabor Mate in one of his books: "If you have to choose between guilt and resentment, choose guilt every time, because resentment will kill you." I am not a mean person, or a resentful person, or a person who feels I deserve stuff. I feel undeserving most of the time. But who could not feel resentful?
I want to address jojo82's comments, because to be honest her voice is on my shoulder at times--the whole "life is about service to others" and "love and tolerate others no matter what" and "in richness and poorness, sickness and health 'til death do us part." Those memes were instilled in my Catholic background, and probably played a part in how I chose to live my life with my AH.
I would challenge jojo82 and others who feel the same way to deeply meditate on motives for clinging to those beliefs. Not that they are wrong--but true spirituality calls for discernment. Love isn't black and white. Love doesn't mean you handcuff yourself to the sinking boat. Tolerance doesn't mean that accept abuse. Tolerance doesn't mean you abandon true service to the world that YOU are meant to give with your unique talents by misdirecting your efforts servicing the wrong causes.
Benedictine oblate Esther de Waal says
There is a limit to the amount of giving to another. There can be no doubt at all about respect for the guest, the welcome given, the love shown. Yet there is also respect for oneself and for one's own way of life. The peace and silence of the monastery must be respected.
I'm just saying the it's important for people predisposed to be the "saint" in a relationship might be after that title of "saint" for all the wrong reasons. It's worthwhile to examine that. What do you get out of it? Are you REALLY giving love to the other--the right kind of love? Or is it more loving to respect their own choices, and relieve them of the burden of thinking that you are "sacrificing" for them? Who wants a martyr for a partner? That's not love.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by SoloMio
I think of the quote cited by Gabor Mate in one of his books: "If you have to choose between guilt and resentment, choose guilt every time, because resentment will kill you." I am not a mean person, or a resentful person, or a person who feels I deserve stuff. I feel undeserving most of the time.
Sending strength to you and all of us.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
Originally Posted by SoloMio
I think of the quote cited by Gabor Mate in one of his books: "If you have to choose between guilt and resentment, choose guilt every time, because resentment will kill you." I am not a mean person, or a resentful person, or a person who feels I deserve stuff. I feel undeserving most of the time. But who could not feel resentful?
I want to address jojo82's comments, because to be honest her voice is on my shoulder at times--the whole "life is about service to others" and "love and tolerate others no matter what" and "in richness and poorness, sickness and health 'til death do us part." Those memes were instilled in my Catholic background, and probably played a part in how I chose to live my life with my AH.
I would challenge jojo82 and others who feel the same way to deeply meditate on motives for clinging to those beliefs. Not that they are wrong--but true spirituality calls for discernment. Love isn't black and white. Love doesn't mean you handcuff yourself to the sinking boat. Tolerance doesn't mean that accept abuse. Tolerance doesn't mean you abandon true service to the world that YOU are meant to give with your unique talents by misdirecting your efforts servicing the wrong causes.
Benedictine oblate Esther de Waal says
Of course, replace "monastery" with "your own quality of life" or whatever fits.
I'm just saying the it's important for people predisposed to be the "saint" in a relationship might be after that title of "saint" for all the wrong reasons. It's worthwhile to examine that. What do you get out of it? Are you REALLY giving love to the other--the right kind of love? Or is it more loving to respect their own choices, and relieve them of the burden of thinking that you are "sacrificing" for them? Who wants a martyr for a partner? That's not love.
I want to address jojo82's comments, because to be honest her voice is on my shoulder at times--the whole "life is about service to others" and "love and tolerate others no matter what" and "in richness and poorness, sickness and health 'til death do us part." Those memes were instilled in my Catholic background, and probably played a part in how I chose to live my life with my AH.
I would challenge jojo82 and others who feel the same way to deeply meditate on motives for clinging to those beliefs. Not that they are wrong--but true spirituality calls for discernment. Love isn't black and white. Love doesn't mean you handcuff yourself to the sinking boat. Tolerance doesn't mean that accept abuse. Tolerance doesn't mean you abandon true service to the world that YOU are meant to give with your unique talents by misdirecting your efforts servicing the wrong causes.
Benedictine oblate Esther de Waal says
Of course, replace "monastery" with "your own quality of life" or whatever fits.
I'm just saying the it's important for people predisposed to be the "saint" in a relationship might be after that title of "saint" for all the wrong reasons. It's worthwhile to examine that. What do you get out of it? Are you REALLY giving love to the other--the right kind of love? Or is it more loving to respect their own choices, and relieve them of the burden of thinking that you are "sacrificing" for them? Who wants a martyr for a partner? That's not love.
WELL SAID!
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
I file for divorce tomorrow at 10 am. It's been 8 years that I have wasted begging, pleading and threatening for his sobriety. Depression, anxiety, public humiliation. I've known for a while that I needed to leave. I've lost most dignity and respect for myself.
However, a sense of calm entered my body last week after yet another rant and shenanigans. Typical stuff for him really, but this time it was different for ME. I had a feeling of calm come over me and called an attorney the next day. No anger, just sadness for us and hope for me. I chose hope.
This past week has felt like such a relief-I'm leaving. I'm really, really leaving. I loved him with my entire bleeding heart to no avail. for years. It was exhausting and I am so tired of returning to an empty well for water.
So, as others have said, it was a cumulation of years of sadness and then one moment of clarity.
However, a sense of calm entered my body last week after yet another rant and shenanigans. Typical stuff for him really, but this time it was different for ME. I had a feeling of calm come over me and called an attorney the next day. No anger, just sadness for us and hope for me. I chose hope.
This past week has felt like such a relief-I'm leaving. I'm really, really leaving. I loved him with my entire bleeding heart to no avail. for years. It was exhausting and I am so tired of returning to an empty well for water.
So, as others have said, it was a cumulation of years of sadness and then one moment of clarity.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,015
Originally Posted by SoloMio
I have to admit, redatlanta, that I actually laughed when I read this, because I feel the same way at this point, although my AH has never actually articulated that I should feel satisfied with the fact that he's as happy as a clam using my bank account to go to the liquor store every day and take his bottle of vodka to the convenience store when we buys smokes and lottery tickets and spends two hours drinking, smoking gambling and sending annoying texts to everyone and anyone.
I just had a grueling couple of days of work in two different cities. I came in at 10:45pm utterly exhausted. He stunk of pee, and the house stunk of poo because he had given the dog something that gave her diarrhea and she went in the living room. The kitchen looked like it had exploded with old food and dishes all over the place. What was right in its place, however, was a bottle of vodka right at his feet in the chair that he sits in (and is ruining with emission of bodily fluids).
Oh, and his brother was there--the one who always walks in and just takes stuff out of the refrigerator at will because he thinks he's entitled
I think of the quote cited by Gabor Mate in one of his books: "If you have to choose between guilt and resentment, choose guilt every time, because resentment will kill you." I am not a mean person, or a resentful person, or a person who feels I deserve stuff. I feel undeserving most of the time. But who could not feel resentful?
I want to address jojo82's comments, because to be honest her voice is on my shoulder at times--the whole "life is about service to others" and "love and tolerate others no matter what" and "in richness and poorness, sickness and health 'til death do us part." Those memes were instilled in my Catholic background, and probably played a part in how I chose to live my life with my AH.
I would challenge jojo82 and others who feel the same way to deeply meditate on motives for clinging to those beliefs. Not that they are wrong--but true spirituality calls for discernment. Love isn't black and white. Love doesn't mean you handcuff yourself to the sinking boat. Tolerance doesn't mean that accept abuse. Tolerance doesn't mean you abandon true service to the world that YOU are meant to give with your unique talents by misdirecting your efforts servicing the wrong causes.
Benedictine oblate Esther de Waal says
Of course, replace "monastery" with "your own quality of life" or whatever fits.
I'm just saying the it's important for people predisposed to be the "saint" in a relationship might be after that title of "saint" for all the wrong reasons. It's worthwhile to examine that. What do you get out of it? Are you REALLY giving love to the other--the right kind of love? Or is it more loving to respect their own choices, and relieve them of the burden of thinking that you are "sacrificing" for them? Who wants a martyr for a partner? That's not love.
I just had a grueling couple of days of work in two different cities. I came in at 10:45pm utterly exhausted. He stunk of pee, and the house stunk of poo because he had given the dog something that gave her diarrhea and she went in the living room. The kitchen looked like it had exploded with old food and dishes all over the place. What was right in its place, however, was a bottle of vodka right at his feet in the chair that he sits in (and is ruining with emission of bodily fluids).
Oh, and his brother was there--the one who always walks in and just takes stuff out of the refrigerator at will because he thinks he's entitled
I think of the quote cited by Gabor Mate in one of his books: "If you have to choose between guilt and resentment, choose guilt every time, because resentment will kill you." I am not a mean person, or a resentful person, or a person who feels I deserve stuff. I feel undeserving most of the time. But who could not feel resentful?
I want to address jojo82's comments, because to be honest her voice is on my shoulder at times--the whole "life is about service to others" and "love and tolerate others no matter what" and "in richness and poorness, sickness and health 'til death do us part." Those memes were instilled in my Catholic background, and probably played a part in how I chose to live my life with my AH.
I would challenge jojo82 and others who feel the same way to deeply meditate on motives for clinging to those beliefs. Not that they are wrong--but true spirituality calls for discernment. Love isn't black and white. Love doesn't mean you handcuff yourself to the sinking boat. Tolerance doesn't mean that accept abuse. Tolerance doesn't mean you abandon true service to the world that YOU are meant to give with your unique talents by misdirecting your efforts servicing the wrong causes.
Benedictine oblate Esther de Waal says
Of course, replace "monastery" with "your own quality of life" or whatever fits.
I'm just saying the it's important for people predisposed to be the "saint" in a relationship might be after that title of "saint" for all the wrong reasons. It's worthwhile to examine that. What do you get out of it? Are you REALLY giving love to the other--the right kind of love? Or is it more loving to respect their own choices, and relieve them of the burden of thinking that you are "sacrificing" for them? Who wants a martyr for a partner? That's not love.
I'm another Catholic here that has really had to think about service, love and tolerance. Some time ago I realized that Jesus Christ himself, on a regular basis, had just had it with everyone and went off to pray or took off in a boat with his best buddies.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
The amount of energy & service poured into a single active alcoholic/addict could - if redirected outward - actually transform a community, could change a child's life, could enhance the lives of many. We squander our loving & transforming energy on a grown-up human who doesn't want our assistance. Kindness redirected could have an enormous impact on the world!
If Jesus had to spend years dealing with his hostile, alcoholic wife, um, some stuff might not have happened!
As to the "moment." My moment of knowing it was time to leave my alcoholic love was the evening that my pent up hurt & frustration turned into rage. I lost my ****. I acted out - in ways that I am still ashamed of. I did not directly attack him, but I threw things, tore books from shelves, broke things. I realize - years later - that I was trying to externalize my own shattered interior.
He loved it. He smiled smugly at one point, witnessing my loss of control. And I realized he was pleased that I had become undone, because then we were both visibly damaged. I do not want to be her. I do not want to be him. That was my last night, because I knew that I would continue to become less than who I am.
I had expected him to rise to create parity. He made me fall to achieve the same goal. That was the last night of that relationship.
If Jesus had to spend years dealing with his hostile, alcoholic wife, um, some stuff might not have happened!
As to the "moment." My moment of knowing it was time to leave my alcoholic love was the evening that my pent up hurt & frustration turned into rage. I lost my ****. I acted out - in ways that I am still ashamed of. I did not directly attack him, but I threw things, tore books from shelves, broke things. I realize - years later - that I was trying to externalize my own shattered interior.
He loved it. He smiled smugly at one point, witnessing my loss of control. And I realized he was pleased that I had become undone, because then we were both visibly damaged. I do not want to be her. I do not want to be him. That was my last night, because I knew that I would continue to become less than who I am.
I had expected him to rise to create parity. He made me fall to achieve the same goal. That was the last night of that relationship.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by heartcore
The amount of energy & service poured into a single active alcoholic/addict could - if redirected outward - actually transform a community, could change a child's life, could enhance the lives of many. We squander our loving & transforming energy on a grown-up human who doesn't want our assistance. Kindness redirected could have an enormous impact on the world!
I've heard it said that Alanon isn't for those who "need" it, it's for those who WANT it. I think that same principle applies in day-to-day life, too--I'll put my energy to better use by applying it where it is WANTED, not necessarily where it is, at least in my opinion, "needed."
Thanks for the post.
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