AnvilheadII

we should also consider just how compromised our OWN morals, values and ethics have become in order to continue our own internal justification to remain in a situation with someone whose behaviors are really unacceptable, distasteful, callous, shallow or disrespectful.

dandylion

Jennifer...I agree that when a person is in a place that is harmful to them...it is their responsibility to leave that place.
I was, primarily, addressing the guilt that you seem to have about leaving him. You seem to feel that it would be an act of "desertion".
But, you see...it isn't really "desertion" in the sense you may be thinking.

Desertion would be leaving a person in the desert without transportation and no water...by design....
But, you see...this person IS capable of helping himself. He has everything he needs, inside to reach for recovery. There are people who can and WILL help him in ways that you cannot. AA is there 24/7, for starters. He could have a sponsor and a counselor.....
You don't actually have anything that can help him. He isn't even available to himself, right now--much less to a relationship with anyone else....His SELF is crippled and buried under the mass of defenses that he uses to accommodate the disease.....

Addictions turn everything topsy-turvy. Behaviors that work in a healthy relationship where there is mutual give and take...do not work in a relationship with an alcoholic or addict.....

dandylion

Liveitwell

^ I had the most grown up conversation with my seven year old two nights ago-talking about boundaries and expectations and needs of each other. That conversation was more mature and respectful and without blame than any conversation I had with my ex over the last few years. You can't apply logicical healthy behaviors to an addict relationship.

LexieCat

OK, let's break it down.

WHAT IF you were to call him tonight and say, "Hey, I've been giving it a lot of thought and struggling with this for a while. I really don't see that we have a future--at least not the kind that I want. I wish you the very best, but it's over. Please take care of yourself."

What is it you think/fear would happen? I mean, there's some kind of fear, evidently. Is it fear for you? Fear of what?

If it's fear for him, he'll decide to get sober when he decides continuing to drink is more painful than doing the hard work of getting sober and staying that way. That could take years/decades, or he might never make that decision. Some don't. And who knows what he will have to go through (and put other people through) in the meantime? Whatever happens, it will be on HIS timetable, not yours.

Bekindalways

Just checking in on you Jen. Big hug to you.

You will come out the other side of this rich in wisdom and (probably) with some humbling self knowledge. Hmmm . . . maybe it won't be this way for you but it sure was for me.

Take care of yourself. Stay hydrated, eat well, and get a bit of exercise.

jenniferlynne76

Yes, Anvil, I am definitely guilty of this. Because I know my parents don't like him I've often omitted details about who I'm with when I'm doing something, and I've flat out lied to him to give myself the space I need at times. Which is not only unethical, but just plain sad.

I have to say that the parental piece is becoming a bit of a real challenge for me. As I think I mentioned, my mother had stage IV cancer. She is so upset that I've continued to stay in this relationship. And last night she said she was getting to the point where she was ready to pick up the phone to call him and tell him herself that he is to extract himself from my life/give him a piece of her mind, etc. since I didn't seem to be able to do it myself. It troubles me that this is bothering her so much... 😕

jenniferlynne76

Once again, dandylion, I agree with everything you've said. You are very, very wise, my friend.

jenniferlynne76

This is SUCH a codependent response, so forgive me in advance... But fear of his reaction. Of the "that's just great, JL. I moved all the way here for you/for us and this is how you treat me..." The fear of him being upset/angry with me (despite the fact that I know he isn't logical), of potentially having him bad mouth me, not like me, and the fear of the unknown. I don't think he'd ever do anything malicious/violent etc. but he's unstable so he's unpredictable. It's all of that....

jenniferlynne76

Thank you, Bekind. You know me so well already. I haven't been doing enough of any of the above.

But I do know you are right. And that once I take that step forward I will be better off/richer in all kinds of ways.

dandylion

Jennifer....I sympathize with your situation with your mother.
There were lots of times I omitted things from my mother and grandmother....just because I knew that they would worry over things that they didn't have any control over. I used the "need to know" policy. If they didn't "need" to know....I just didn't mention it....
(they both lived in another state)....

dandylion

jenniferlynne76

That's where I've gotten to dandylion. My parents live in the same state, but in a different city almost four hours away. So its not like they're just going to pop in on me. But it makes me sad that I've begun to do this to protect her from further worry. She just doesn't need that stress right now with chemo, and a very real fear of not knowing how much time she has left. I know she just wants what's best for me and she wants to know I have it -- and have had it -- before her time here is done. 😢

tbeit

"This is SUCH a codependent response, so forgive me in advance... But fear of his reaction. Of the "that's just great, JL. I moved all the way here for you/for us and this is how you treat me..." The fear of him being upset/angry with me (despite the fact that I know he isn't logical), of potentially having him bad mouth me, not like me, and the fear of the unknown. I don't think he'd ever do anything malicious/violent etc. but he's unstable so he's unpredictable. It's all of that...."


Jennifer He counts on you feeling like this. Now I'm not saying he is wringing his hands together saying " ha ha I've got her right where I want her" but his AV is. This is what I was talking about in my last post to you saying we take hostages.

He might feel all the ways you mention in the post above now . When and if he ever gets sober he will see it for what it is. You need to save yourself from this destructive relationship and spend time wiith your mother while you have it.

redatlanta

Sadly (for me) he has no one else here. I'm it. So the likelihood of him finding someone to fill my space isn't very good. Even if I do drop him like a bad habit (which is exactly what he is)! Not so fast on that one. Replacement often comes at warp speed. You know they say the only thing that can survive a nuclear bomb is a roach? I'd add an addict to the list. Their capacity to "survive" is truly mind boggling. He'll go, and find very quickly another just like him to begin with, as misery loves company. Eventually he will find a codie, and may faster than you think possible. Truthfully, you don't spend a lot of time together. You have no idea what he is up to, or if he has found other entertainment. I'm not really speaking in terms of a romantic relationship......that's possible but not necessary. In some ways its a hassle for them, and just finding a good codie enabling friend, or another group of drunks is better.

My mother has terminal cancer. I empathize with you and hope for you to be able to rid yourself of this man sooner, rather than later. When it comes to losing our parents each moment we can spend with them is a year ( I am hoping your mom does not have that diagnosis my mom's cancer has no cure). Emotionally its as hard as it gets. I see your ABF as a distraction perhaps, definitely an emotional vampire sucking your energy and time when now is the time for you to focus on someone else. I do understand why you lie to your mom about him. In my experience mothers know a lot more than we think they do which is most likely why yours said she would like to call him herself. Isn't it ironic that the person who deserves the least of your time (like none, ABF) is getting any part of you when your parents are so distraught over the relationship, and your mother is in Stage IV cancer? Yet you worry about him. I'm pointing out things I have done myself in my younger years, maybe at your age, though I don't know how old you are. I often chose a loser over my parents at the expense of their worry and heartache. Often clung to those relationships because I FELT BAD for the loser, but not as much for my parents. They had a good life after all. Its very hard to look bad on those times, see selfishness in myself, and trauma caused, without cringing and feeling sick to my stomach.

I wish for you to never feel like that. Keep up your good work and stay the course. You are doing so well in working towards a dissolving this situation, and getting on with life!

ladyscribbler

How is it unbelievable? It reality.
I spent a lot of time like this, going over and over all the negative events that I was sure should have been my ex's bottom. That's where all my focus was. I was totally fixated on him. So much so that I couldn't see my own bottom rushing up at me.
The details of his drama are irrelevant. All I need to know is that he's an active alcoholic. That one statement tells me that his life is unmanageable and that's all anyone really needs to know.
What helped me to move on was to "put down the magnifying glass and pick up the mirror." I had to start taking a hard look at my choices and thought processes. Why did I accept so much unacceptable behavior? Why did I ignore so many red flags? Not having a relationship with his children because of alcohol is more than a red flag, it's a flaming beacon.
He chose to do everything he's done up to this point. If you could make him do anything, then why isn't he sober yet? I know I often felt that sense of guilt and that I was responsible for my ex's wellbeing, but looking at it logically like that helped me a lot. Attending Alanon meetings and working the steps has untangled my old thought patterns and allowed me to forge a healthy new path as I recover from my disease of codependency.

LexieCat

If he's never been violent before, do you really think he would suddenly become violent over a breakup? Abusive men are pretty easily identifiable WAY before this. Especially when you've been distancing yourself. If he had violent power/control tendencies you would have seen them during this time.

He might act indignant, a bit angry, more likely he would appear sad/disappointed. If you're breaking up with him, what he thinks of you is really of no concern to you. Why does it matter if he thinks you treated him badly? You know the truth, and he's not thinking clearly, so whose "reality" matters?

If he says things like: "that's just great, JL. I moved all the way here for you/for us and this is how you treat me...," you can say something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm disappointed, too. But this is how it has to be."

You don't have to argue, explain, justify, rationalize, defend anything. You have the right to have the kind of life you want for yourself, and he has the right to live how he wants to live (including the drinking).

Allowing someone else the dignity of choosing their own path is a gift. He doesn't have to see it that way.

Praying

I've had a few times in my adult life where I've pulled away from my mom because I haven't wanted to share the truth of what's going on...or I've lied and said things were fine when they weren't...my mom is a loving, caring person who would truly understand things. Every time I did that and eventually self-corrected, I felt such a loss for the time I had wasted.

That's not saying that my mom lost out--it's saying that I did. I wasted time that I could have been real with her. She got breast cancer several years ago, and I could cry thinking of how unsupportive and thoughtless I was, being "caught up" in my life. I've actually apologized for it (several years later). I can't have it back though. I'm grateful she's alive.

She's still healthy, but I know that if I were in your shoes and kept on this path with a guy I claim I don't want to spend time with, I'd have deep regrets later for being self-absorbed in something so unnecessary. (I don't mean that harshly, I mean it in relation to my past experiences and how I feel about them now.)

Hugs to you. And one thought to ponder regarding your emotional energy...if it were pints of blood, knowing you had a finite amount to give...would you drain it all for ABF as he spilled most of it on the floor and wasted it and didn't seem to care, or would you send some or all your mom's way?

Wisconsin

Much love to you, Praying.

JL, I saw my mother very little during the last two years of her life. Although she lived only 3.5 hours away, the drama with my AH and what our lives had started to become financially were easy excuses for me to stay away. We had not seen her in months when we went out to stay for a few days right before Christmas in 2011. It was a nice visit, and we rekindled our frequent phone calls. A month of two after Christmas, I shared with her that my AH had started drinking again, which broke her heart for me and my children. In late March of 2012, she died. Although her health had been very poor for many years, the final illness came on quickly and suddenly.

I will never, ever get that time back. My mother was not an addict, but she was the queen of co-dependency. Nevertheless, she always did the best she could with the emotional tools she had, and she was a good mother.

From someone who misses her mother terribly, every single day, more than four years after her death, I beg you--please do not allow this ridiculousness with your ABF to rob you of any more moments of closeness and honesty with your mother.

dandylion

Jennifer.....Lexie brought up JADE....justify--argue--defend--explain. That is a useful tool, I have found. In a situation where YOU know the truth and someone else is saying otherwise, you are not under any obligation to JADE about it.....

By the way...you mentioned, a couple of times that your boyfriend moved near you because he needed work and there wasn't any where he was (among other reasons)....Don't take all the "blame"...but, still...you don't even have to JADE it with him......

dandylion

FireSprite

I just got off the phone with my BFF; her mother is literally dying of cancer as we speak. She likely will not last more than another day or so. I am another voice begging you not to waste one minute more of your time on this situation while you can have quality time with your mom.


This guy can't maintain sobriety for his kids, gets into brawls, isn't even trying to really consider sobriety..... he's been VERY clear about who he is & what he wants. He keeps showing you EXACTLY who he is. He has every right to be this person even if we all know it's an unhealthy way to live.

NONE of that is even close to what YOU want.

YOU are the one with a problem Jen, not him. Is it fair to expect him to be part of solving a problem that he doesn't even really see or acknowledge?

What WOULD be the perfect ending to this situation, in your opinion?

hopeful4

Love that Dandy! I am going to remember this when my X and his wonderful wife attempt to engage with me.