You were all right...
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Join Date: May 2012
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Glad you are following through with therapy today Jen, always a good idea!
I know that others can echo my sentiment here (& many already have)- I KNOW where you are. I can clearly remember the foggy-brained confused-state even if I struggle for the words to describe it. Some days this was all so overwhelming that I just laid down on my back deck & sobbed. I didn't know where to start. His Addiction was one thing but my codie issues were so wrapped up in who I was that I felt lost without being to identify with so many parts of my Self. I was ok in theory with dumping what wasn't serving me, but it was really, really hard to put that into action at first.
I've often said I felt that everything inside felt like 100 cords of tangled, knotted, half-functioned Christmas lights, all tied up in a ball. Just a huge, gnarled mess. How do you start with something like that? (Real Answer: Anywhere. Anywhere you start will be where you needed to start & will take you eventually to all of the places that you need to go.)
We have ALL gone through this & we have ALL gotten through it in our own time. There are tons of similarities we can draw but we ALL walk our paths alone.
Many of us have spent YEARS just getting to the point that you are at right now, so don't be too hard on yourself. Codies that are ready for change, in my experience, tend to not even realize that we're looking for/expecting an "If this/then that" type of way of going about it all. We want to be able to check off a,b,c or just follow a map to get to where we need to be. There's comfort AND control in that thought process - if I do this, that will happen.
But that's logic talking. NOTHING about this process is logical. Nothing. Every time you find yourself trying to problem-solve all of this with logic - stop yourself, halt those grinding gears & remind yourself that THAT thought process does not fit the problem. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree. (another poster used to say it was like "brushing your teeth with oreos" & I always got a kick out of that imagery too, lol.)
Last thought - Jamais vu - the opposite of deja vu, meaning "never seen". This is the feeling that you know or recognize a situation but it is still unfamiliar; it suddenly seems brand-new. The result of a distortion in your perception..... like you're seeing something you've seen before but with new eyes & it is like seeing it all new, for the first time, ever. With this kind of stuff, you can't Un-See it once you've had that perception flip.
So one door is closing & you're waiting for the next to open & it's Hell in the Hallway in the meantime. Like you're standing in the middle of The Bridge, halfway through your commitment to get to the other side of your Awakening: (have you had time to read these yet?)
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1841871
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...awakening.html
We ALL know, we have ALL been there, we are ALL working our ways through it. You're doing great, keep going!
I know that others can echo my sentiment here (& many already have)- I KNOW where you are. I can clearly remember the foggy-brained confused-state even if I struggle for the words to describe it. Some days this was all so overwhelming that I just laid down on my back deck & sobbed. I didn't know where to start. His Addiction was one thing but my codie issues were so wrapped up in who I was that I felt lost without being to identify with so many parts of my Self. I was ok in theory with dumping what wasn't serving me, but it was really, really hard to put that into action at first.
I've often said I felt that everything inside felt like 100 cords of tangled, knotted, half-functioned Christmas lights, all tied up in a ball. Just a huge, gnarled mess. How do you start with something like that? (Real Answer: Anywhere. Anywhere you start will be where you needed to start & will take you eventually to all of the places that you need to go.)
We have ALL gone through this & we have ALL gotten through it in our own time. There are tons of similarities we can draw but we ALL walk our paths alone.
Many of us have spent YEARS just getting to the point that you are at right now, so don't be too hard on yourself. Codies that are ready for change, in my experience, tend to not even realize that we're looking for/expecting an "If this/then that" type of way of going about it all. We want to be able to check off a,b,c or just follow a map to get to where we need to be. There's comfort AND control in that thought process - if I do this, that will happen.
But that's logic talking. NOTHING about this process is logical. Nothing. Every time you find yourself trying to problem-solve all of this with logic - stop yourself, halt those grinding gears & remind yourself that THAT thought process does not fit the problem. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree. (another poster used to say it was like "brushing your teeth with oreos" & I always got a kick out of that imagery too, lol.)
Last thought - Jamais vu - the opposite of deja vu, meaning "never seen". This is the feeling that you know or recognize a situation but it is still unfamiliar; it suddenly seems brand-new. The result of a distortion in your perception..... like you're seeing something you've seen before but with new eyes & it is like seeing it all new, for the first time, ever. With this kind of stuff, you can't Un-See it once you've had that perception flip.
So one door is closing & you're waiting for the next to open & it's Hell in the Hallway in the meantime. Like you're standing in the middle of The Bridge, halfway through your commitment to get to the other side of your Awakening: (have you had time to read these yet?)
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1841871
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...awakening.html
We ALL know, we have ALL been there, we are ALL working our ways through it. You're doing great, keep going!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by FireSprite 
Glad you are following through with therapy today Jen, always a good idea!
I know that others can echo my sentiment here (& many already have)- I KNOW where you are. I can clearly remember the foggy-brained confused-state even if I struggle for the words to describe it. Some days this was all so overwhelming that I just laid down on my back deck & sobbed. I didn't know where to start. His Addiction was one thing but my codie issues were so wrapped up in who I was that I felt lost without being to identify with so many parts of my Self. I was ok in theory with dumping what wasn't serving me, but it was really, really hard to put that into action at first.
I've often said I felt that everything inside felt like 100 cords of tangled, knotted, half-functioned Christmas lights, all tied up in a ball. Just a huge, gnarled mess. How do you start with something like that? (Real Answer: Anywhere. Anywhere you start will be where you needed to start & will take you eventually to all of the places that you need to go.)
We have ALL gone through this & we have ALL gotten through it in our own time. There are tons of similarities we can draw but we ALL walk our paths alone.
Many of us have spent YEARS just getting to the point that you are at right now, so don't be too hard on yourself. Codies that are ready for change, in my experience, tend to not even realize that we're looking for/expecting an "If this/then that" type of way of going about it all. We want to be able to check off a,b,c or just follow a map to get to where we need to be. There's comfort AND control in that thought process - if I do this, that will happen.
But that's logic talking. NOTHING about this process is logical. Nothing. Every time you find yourself trying to problem-solve all of this with logic - stop yourself, halt those grinding gears & remind yourself that THAT thought process does not fit the problem. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree. (another poster used to say it was like "brushing your teeth with oreos" & I always got a kick out of that imagery too, lol.)
Last thought - Jamais vu - the opposite of deja vu, meaning "never seen". This is the feeling that you know or recognize a situation but it is still unfamiliar; it suddenly seems brand-new. The result of a distortion in your perception..... like you're seeing something you've seen before but with new eyes & it is like seeing it all new, for the first time, ever. With this kind of stuff, you can't Un-See it once you've had that perception flip.
So one door is closing & you're waiting for the next to open & it's Hell in the Hallway in the meantime. Like you're standing in the middle of The Bridge, halfway through your commitment to get to the other side of your Awakening: (have you had time to read these yet?)
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1841871
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...awakening.html
We ALL know, we have ALL been there, we are ALL working our ways through it. You're doing great, keep going!
I know that others can echo my sentiment here (& many already have)- I KNOW where you are. I can clearly remember the foggy-brained confused-state even if I struggle for the words to describe it. Some days this was all so overwhelming that I just laid down on my back deck & sobbed. I didn't know where to start. His Addiction was one thing but my codie issues were so wrapped up in who I was that I felt lost without being to identify with so many parts of my Self. I was ok in theory with dumping what wasn't serving me, but it was really, really hard to put that into action at first.
I've often said I felt that everything inside felt like 100 cords of tangled, knotted, half-functioned Christmas lights, all tied up in a ball. Just a huge, gnarled mess. How do you start with something like that? (Real Answer: Anywhere. Anywhere you start will be where you needed to start & will take you eventually to all of the places that you need to go.)
We have ALL gone through this & we have ALL gotten through it in our own time. There are tons of similarities we can draw but we ALL walk our paths alone.
Many of us have spent YEARS just getting to the point that you are at right now, so don't be too hard on yourself. Codies that are ready for change, in my experience, tend to not even realize that we're looking for/expecting an "If this/then that" type of way of going about it all. We want to be able to check off a,b,c or just follow a map to get to where we need to be. There's comfort AND control in that thought process - if I do this, that will happen.
But that's logic talking. NOTHING about this process is logical. Nothing. Every time you find yourself trying to problem-solve all of this with logic - stop yourself, halt those grinding gears & remind yourself that THAT thought process does not fit the problem. It's like trying to nail jello to a tree. (another poster used to say it was like "brushing your teeth with oreos" & I always got a kick out of that imagery too, lol.)
Last thought - Jamais vu - the opposite of deja vu, meaning "never seen". This is the feeling that you know or recognize a situation but it is still unfamiliar; it suddenly seems brand-new. The result of a distortion in your perception..... like you're seeing something you've seen before but with new eyes & it is like seeing it all new, for the first time, ever. With this kind of stuff, you can't Un-See it once you've had that perception flip.
So one door is closing & you're waiting for the next to open & it's Hell in the Hallway in the meantime. Like you're standing in the middle of The Bridge, halfway through your commitment to get to the other side of your Awakening: (have you had time to read these yet?)
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1841871
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...awakening.html
We ALL know, we have ALL been there, we are ALL working our ways through it. You're doing great, keep going!
Everything you've written here resonates with me so perfectly right now. I do feel like that tangled mess of Christmas lights. And if I weren't sitting here in my cubicle on a day full of very important meetings and work I would be sobbing. (It's bound to happen at some point...but hopefully after I get out of here.) And I too love the comment about something being like brushing your teeth with Oreos. That's a good one. LOL
I feel like ABF is now starting to play the games you all warned me about. Flip flopping between not contacting me and contacting me while trying to make me feel like I'm the one who's sick and needs treatment. Saying that if my therapist thinks we should have no contact for 6 to 12 months he'll wait for me(??) No, dummy. She said until you were sober for 6 to 12 months I should consider cutting off all contact with you (and him getting sober will likely happen never). He told me that he wouldn't ever be able to promise me that he wouldn't lie to me because he's an alcoholic and alcoholics lie. When I said that was in direct opposition to my recovery process he made no apologies (surprise, surprise). I asked him what he'd do if he was in my shoes and he said he'd drop me like a bad habit. But of course the minute he senses I'm going that route the manipulation starts again. He tells me he doesn't want to put me through what he put his XW and kids through but he is already doing that and quack, quack, quack, quack, quack. And didn't have the gumption to just shut it down. I was tired, it was late and I took it. So now, of course, comes the "self-flagellation" part of all this, as a recovering codie coworker of mine described it this morning. Ugh. One day...one minute...at a time, right? :-(
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Originally Posted by jenniferlynne76
So now, of course, comes the "self-flagellation" part of all this, as a recovering codie coworker of mine described it this morning. Ugh. One day...one minute...at a time, right? :-(
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Jennifer.....yes....one day at a time....(or one minute).....
When you first came here with this issue...you began to entertain "detachment"......and, began to practice some steps in that direction....
Why not just keep it up....? As you detach (more and more)...the more comfortable you will feel with yourself...
He will notice, also....They always do...and become a lot more pissy/or manipulative.....
As long as you stay on your path..you will get there....The relationship will not stay static if you are moving forward...Like, I said, before, at some point---he is likely to make it easy for you to say...."Not this, anymore"......
One day at a time....live in the present (no future tripping).....and, trusting in YOURSELF that you will get through this.....
dandylion
When you first came here with this issue...you began to entertain "detachment"......and, began to practice some steps in that direction....
Why not just keep it up....? As you detach (more and more)...the more comfortable you will feel with yourself...
He will notice, also....They always do...and become a lot more pissy/or manipulative.....
As long as you stay on your path..you will get there....The relationship will not stay static if you are moving forward...Like, I said, before, at some point---he is likely to make it easy for you to say...."Not this, anymore"......
One day at a time....live in the present (no future tripping).....and, trusting in YOURSELF that you will get through this.....
dandylion
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Why do you need to wait for him to AGREE with you? You are the one acting here, not him.
I'm rolling with your assertion that you are ready to be done with him, because that's what you're telling us. You're accusing him of "playing games" but aren't you really BOTH avoiding the issue? You're upset because he claims to not want to hurt you, but isn't willing to "shut it down." YOU are equally capable of "shutting it down"--at any time.
This is like two people playing chicken, or seeing who blinks first. It isn't a contest--you don't win this by hanging around until he makes the first move. If you want to be done, be done. He doesn't have to agree, doesn't have to admit fault, doesn't have to apologize, doesn't have to feel bad (or good, or anything else).
This is YOUR life.
ETA: Just to clarify, he may be feeling every bit as ambivalent as you are. Alcoholics are not all evil manipulators. Most of the manipulation in many cases is a product of wanting to be something/somebody they know they aren't capable of being. They aren't in their right minds, quite literally. If you want things to be different, I wouldn't recommend relying on the alcoholic to make them different.
I'm rolling with your assertion that you are ready to be done with him, because that's what you're telling us. You're accusing him of "playing games" but aren't you really BOTH avoiding the issue? You're upset because he claims to not want to hurt you, but isn't willing to "shut it down." YOU are equally capable of "shutting it down"--at any time.
This is like two people playing chicken, or seeing who blinks first. It isn't a contest--you don't win this by hanging around until he makes the first move. If you want to be done, be done. He doesn't have to agree, doesn't have to admit fault, doesn't have to apologize, doesn't have to feel bad (or good, or anything else).
This is YOUR life.
ETA: Just to clarify, he may be feeling every bit as ambivalent as you are. Alcoholics are not all evil manipulators. Most of the manipulation in many cases is a product of wanting to be something/somebody they know they aren't capable of being. They aren't in their right minds, quite literally. If you want things to be different, I wouldn't recommend relying on the alcoholic to make them different.
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Something it took me a LONG time to learn...they don't think about us nearly as much as we think they do...and so many of their words and actions really have nothing to do with us, though we'd like to believe they do.
Not everything he does has a purpose in relation to you. If I had to guess, he's just hanging out, seeing how much of yourself you're willing to give, and will move on if it's nothing. (Unless he can't find anyone else--then he'll try you again to see if you really meant it.)
Sounds harsh and mean--but it's why closure doesn't really matter to these guys. They don't need it, and our quest for it keeps us involved in a way that only benefits them. And closure also isn't ever really final if they want to try for another go-round.
Not everything he does has a purpose in relation to you. If I had to guess, he's just hanging out, seeing how much of yourself you're willing to give, and will move on if it's nothing. (Unless he can't find anyone else--then he'll try you again to see if you really meant it.)
Sounds harsh and mean--but it's why closure doesn't really matter to these guys. They don't need it, and our quest for it keeps us involved in a way that only benefits them. And closure also isn't ever really final if they want to try for another go-round.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Jennifer.....yes....one day at a time....(or one minute).....
When you first came here with this issue...you began to entertain "detachment"......and, began to practice some steps in that direction....
Why not just keep it up....? As you detach (more and more)...the more comfortable you will feel with yourself...
He will notice, also....They always do...and become a lot more pissy/or manipulative.....
As long as you stay on your path..you will get there....The relationship will not stay static if you are moving forward...Like, I said, before, at some point---he is likely to make it easy for you to say...."Not this, anymore"......
One day at a time....live in the present (no future tripping).....and, trusting in YOURSELF that you will get through this.....
dandylion
When you first came here with this issue...you began to entertain "detachment"......and, began to practice some steps in that direction....
Why not just keep it up....? As you detach (more and more)...the more comfortable you will feel with yourself...
He will notice, also....They always do...and become a lot more pissy/or manipulative.....
As long as you stay on your path..you will get there....The relationship will not stay static if you are moving forward...Like, I said, before, at some point---he is likely to make it easy for you to say...."Not this, anymore"......
One day at a time....live in the present (no future tripping).....and, trusting in YOURSELF that you will get through this.....
dandylion
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Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Originally Posted by jenniferlynne76
He told me that he wouldn't ever be able to promise me that he wouldn't lie to me because he's an alcoholic and alcoholics lie. But of course the minute he senses I'm going that route the manipulation starts again. He tells me he doesn't want to put me through what he put his XW and kids through but he is already doing that (
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
This is like two people playing chicken, or seeing who blinks first. It isn't a contest--you don't win this by hanging around until he makes the first move. If you want to be done, be done. He doesn't have to agree, doesn't have to admit fault, doesn't have to apologize, doesn't have to feel bad (or good, or anything else).
This is YOUR life.
ETA: Just to clarify, he may be feeling every bit as ambivalent as you are. Alcoholics are not all evil manipulators. Most of the manipulation in many cases is a product of wanting to be something/somebody they know they aren't capable of being. They aren't in their right minds, quite literally. If you want things to be different, I wouldn't recommend relying on the alcoholic to make them different.
This is YOUR life.
ETA: Just to clarify, he may be feeling every bit as ambivalent as you are. Alcoholics are not all evil manipulators. Most of the manipulation in many cases is a product of wanting to be something/somebody they know they aren't capable of being. They aren't in their right minds, quite literally. If you want things to be different, I wouldn't recommend relying on the alcoholic to make them different.
I also agree with your comment about him not necessarily being consciously manipulative for what it's worth. I honest believe it's a symptom of the condition/disease/whatever you want to call it.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
I think that is a very I nteresting point---"they probably aren't thinking about us as much as we think about them"........
dandylion
dandylion
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I'm sorry-but are you dating my ex husband?!?! Seriously....
In all truthfulness, just walk away-there's nothing holding you there, no reason to stay, no big goodbye-just walk away. This guy is a mess!
In all truthfulness, just walk away-there's nothing holding you there, no reason to stay, no big goodbye-just walk away. This guy is a mess!
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Originally Posted by jenniferlynne76
I am SURE he doesn't think about me as much as I think about him. He's even admitted as much. Some of it is because, as he says, he's just in a drunken stupor so often. And when he's not he's definitely not focused on the present...
And his kicker was always "He is going to drink, or he isn't. The question is, what are YOU going to do?"
That was a hard lesson for me--because it sure felt like every time my AH drank, it was a personal attack on me because I had asked him so many times to stop. But that's just not how an alcoholic's brain works. He drank because he wanted to drink. Period.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Agree with the others. When you are done you are done... And you will be when you are. I had a husband that I loved like crazy (total crazy love) and one day I just got tired of it and I didn't speak to him for six years until I ran into him on the street. It was shocking to me that I actually didn't want to hear from him anymore. But suddenly I was done.
And do change the name in your phone to something mean he said to you... one I used 'he said he'd never love you' it is VERY hard to justify calling or texting that number when you have to look up something hurtful.
Don't beat yourself up you'll get there!
And do change the name in your phone to something mean he said to you... one I used 'he said he'd never love you' it is VERY hard to justify calling or texting that number when you have to look up something hurtful.
Don't beat yourself up you'll get there!
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Another aspect that I think applied to me before a breakup (many years ago)....
I think that some...not all....but, some people begin the grieving process while they are STILL in the relationship....so, that, when they have gotten far enough along in the grieving (and, thus, more detached), they are more able to exit the relationship without completely falling apart.....
Again, we are all a bit different.....
But, I think that this is not easy, no matter what.....
dandylion
I think that some...not all....but, some people begin the grieving process while they are STILL in the relationship....so, that, when they have gotten far enough along in the grieving (and, thus, more detached), they are more able to exit the relationship without completely falling apart.....
Again, we are all a bit different.....
But, I think that this is not easy, no matter what.....
dandylion
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Originally Posted by Refiner
What manipulation? He is clearly stating he's alcoholic. He's clearly stating he's a liar. He's clearly stating he knows he puts you through hell as he did his XW and kids. I don't understand what you are waiting for? The next step for him is going to tell you he's is going for help and that will draw out for a few more months and you'll be in the same spot as you have been with this guy. Do you enjoy being in his vortex? Are you afraid you will be bored without all his drama?
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Originally Posted by Forourgirls
I'm sorry-but are you dating my ex husband?!?! Seriously....
In all truthfulness, just walk away-there's nothing holding you there, no reason to stay, no big goodbye-just walk away. This guy is a mess!
In all truthfulness, just walk away-there's nothing holding you there, no reason to stay, no big goodbye-just walk away. This guy is a mess!
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
Yep, time for my all-time favorite SR quote. It's a little harsh depending on how you "hear" it, so forewarned & all that....
"You don't have a problem - you have a solution that you don't like."
"You don't have a problem - you have a solution that you don't like."
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Jennifer....more comic relief (if you don't mind).....
I was once advised: If you have some weeds in your yard that you don't want---it is far easier to plant more grass than to pull out the weeds (grass chokes out the weeds)....
It a situation like this....I think that the more a co-dependent fills their life with new things ....like friends, activities, interests, new learning, etc.....
the easier it is to detach from the addict.....
**grass seed is on sale this time of year......lol....
dandylion
I was once advised: If you have some weeds in your yard that you don't want---it is far easier to plant more grass than to pull out the weeds (grass chokes out the weeds)....
It a situation like this....I think that the more a co-dependent fills their life with new things ....like friends, activities, interests, new learning, etc.....
the easier it is to detach from the addict.....
**grass seed is on sale this time of year......lol....
dandylion
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