Wisconsin

Oh, he FOR SURE notices. And he's going to turn up the pressure/charm/whatever on you as a result. He is going to test that letter you wrote to him. He will test it to see how far he can push you to keep things in the status quo. His hope is that he can put forth the absolute minimum amount of effort to keep you just satisfied enough to not change anything.

jenniferlynne76

Aww... Wisconsin. Thank you, my friend! I'm glad this exercise is proving so helpful for us all!

jenniferlynne76

Funny you said this, because I immediately asked myself that question when you made the suggestion and I reacted as I did. Oddly, it's the notion of HIM not being THERE. And that kinda surprised me...

Ap052183

I struggled with this a lot with my xabf. I read a lot about "detaching with love" but it never made sense to me. In order for relationships to be relationships there needs to be a cretain degree of emotional intimacy. If I don't have honesty, closeness, physical and emotional togetherness, there is no relationship. If someone cant be real with themselves ill never get any real vulnerability myself. It becomes more of a superficial friendship. Then what's the point? It's different for everyone but detaching with love made no sense to me. Altogether detaching, as in breaking up, was my only option. If he was actively seeking a solid recovery I'd say minimal communication might be ok, but if not you're basically slowly removing the bandaid that should just be ripped off.

jenniferlynne76

It's so weird because he leaves that letter open on his living room end table and every time I've been to his place since I can tell he's been reading it and re-reading it, and re-reading it again...

SparkleKitty

Can you? Or can you tell...it's been opened. I mean really. That's all you can know unless you've seen him pouring over it. Be wary of your own imagination telling you the story you WANT to believe rather than what you actually have evidence for. Because it would be nice, wouldn't it, to know that something you wrote had an impact on him? Be very careful of wishful thinking, it kept me stuck for a long time.

Wisconsin

My experience here is that the people who are the best at true detaching with love are those with children who are addicts. Those of us whose qualifiers are romantic partners, it is easier (and less painful) to just go no contact. Those of us whose qualifiers are romantic partners AND with whom we have children (and thus can't go no contact), we tend to limit contact as much as possible, and limit it to subjects related only to the kids.

I have to maintain contact with my STBXAH because we share a 5-year-old son. If we did not have a child together, I would have cut off all contact. He is a good man, who suffers far more than his fair share of demons. I love him, and I want nothing but happiness and peace for him. But if I never had to interact with him again, that would be fine with me. Loving him and wanting the best for him are completely independent of my desire to have him in my life.

I got to that point after five long, grueling years of trying desperately to find a way to make our relationship work, even as he continued to drink. I was a very sick, crazy, and co-dependent person for many years, trying to control and manipulate everything, all so I could stay in a marriage to someone who abused me (and often abused me in front of my children). It's easy to look back now and see how ridiculous I was, but it was a long and painful recovery process for me, that will continue every day that I am blessed to be on this earth.

jenniferlynne76

That's a fair question. But I can tell. The pages are smudged, not always in the same order...and he's told me he's re-read it a number of times.

FireSprite

^^Ditto. It all reality, it is the much like an emotional Trojan Horse leaving that letter on the table like that. It can easily be nothing less than deliberate manipulation.

My mom (an unrecovering Codie) is great at this - she leaves the tools I've shared with her strewn about her living room when I'm visiting because she WANTS me to see them & pat her on the back for utilizing them. It's emotional manipulation, just for show.

LifeRecovery

Apo-

I struggled with exactly this for a long time.

Until I realized that I did NOT have intimacy (emotional or otherwise) with my loved one. While he was actively engaging in drinking it was like trying to get blood from a turnip to be able to get him present in his life, nevermind emotionally engaged.

I kept "trying" to make it work. I kept placing all of the challenges in our relationship on me, myself and I (as a way to try and control them). I was placing all my bets on his "potential," of what "could be." It took years but I finally realized that is what I was struggling to detach from, his potential, not his reality.

I finally was able to appreciate and understand detachment when I started getting present, and real. That does not make him a bad person, but he was not interested in recovery.

My therapist once told me that two healthy people can remain together in a good relationship. Two sick people often remain together to fuel their independent challenges. She commented that she rarely sees a person in recovery and a person not willing to be in recovery be able to make it, because the challenges become astronomical and only one participant can see it.

That helped me immensely as I put a lot of work into my recovery prior to my hand being forced out of the relationship.....then I still had to grieve, and work my own stuff.

Jennifer I am with Wisconsin your asking and response has been inspiring.

dandylion

Jennifer.....it is a lot easier to detach from someone that you are not sleeping with.....and, a lot easier to leave the relationship, too......

dandylion

alcoholics wife

I feel like detaching is the difference between "love" and "in love".
You love your brother but have a detachment from him. But being in love with someone requires another level of emotional intimacy. To detach means you need to be okay with your spouse being emotionally unavailable on many levels. With a romantic relationship there is expectations of a level of trust, emotional availability, togetherness, etc. Detachment means you need to give up on those ideas because you can not get all this with an addict. Unfortunately I think that those with children or have been married a very long time or those just beginning their relationship are better capable of detaching

jenniferlynne76

Funny... He was just complaining about the lack of sex last week. I wonder why? 😉 (Being facetious here, obviously!)

jenniferlynne76

So I had this epiphany of sorts while I was in the shower this evening. (I always do my best thinking in the shower... LOL) Though I was with my XH for 11 years and married to him for almost 9, I never exhibited any codependent tendencies toward him. If anything, it was quite the contrary. So why, or how, is it that we can be so codependent when it comes to some people, and not exhibit any signs of codependency at all toward others?

I know that with ABF some of it has to do with history/memories, as I've shared, as well as him providing me with an initial feeling of being beautiful, loved, etc. where I didn't feel that at all from my XH. So that likely has at least something to do with it. But there must be more...

bluelily

Jennifer,
It might be easier for you if you physically remove yourself from the relationship for a while, just take a break. You don´t have to tell him this (he would probably put up the charm or bully you into submission), just make up some excuse to see him less. In my case, I was going out of town for a week when I was considering breaking up with my XABF, and this helped me tremendously to disentangle from all the emotional chaos and sick bonds I had developed with him.

After this week, I managed to maintain no physical contact, and really experienced what it would be like not to be with him anymore. I began to see how unacceptable his behaviour had really been, and noticed how peaceful life was without him. Of course, he didn´t like this new distance and eventually decided to break up with me over the phone.

This isn´t a very assertive attitude, but in my state of mind, which very much resembled yours, it was the only thing I could do.

On the other hand, I completely agree about the lack of intimacy. The last time I saw my XABf I tried to tell him carefully that I was concerned about his drinking, and he became furious and asked me what did I care? I said well when you have a bond with someone you begin to care about him. His response? Well then DON´T bond with me.
Really, how could I stay in a relationship without bonding?
Of course, after this he worked on his manipulation skills, doing things like putting up a photo of me on his facebook Wall, but after what he said it seemed like what it really was - some manipulation to keep me satisfied with emotional crumbs.

It really is hard when you begin to open your eyes to reality, but I´m sure it´s much much worse in the long run if you keep pretending you´re having a real relationship with someone when actually you´re not.

SparkleKitty

I wasn't codependent with my first husband (who was not an addict) in the same way I was Codie with my XABF a few years later, but there are some things I can point to now as being very codependent in the sense that I prioritized everyone else before myself: for example, when my first husband proposed I said yes...because it was clearly what he wanted. And I wasn't ready for the relationship to end. In my ACoA, black and white thinking mindset, there was no between. So while I wasn't anywhere near ready for marriage, I dismissed that in order to make him happy.

For a while I was able to maintain an identity as His Wife. That marriage kept me from dealing with my total lack of self esteem.

We divorced twelve years ago and are quite good friends these days; I consider myself very lucky. My codependency and lack of self worth really hurt him and it wasn't his fault at all. I had to implode before I sought help for my issues, and he was caught in the blast.

bluelily

It could be you were a bit insecure after your divorce, and more vulnerable. Also, As seem to be experts at establishing these dynamics in their relationships, and make their loved ones so insecure that they end up clinging to them.
They say a relationship between two people is more than the sum of its parts, you can behave very differently in different relationships.

Kata

Ahhhh I had exactly the same thought regarding my XABF! I can't give an answer as to your exact situation, but I can share my thoughts on mine, and maybe it will give you food for thoughts.

Let me preface this by saying that my XABF was my childhood sweethart and my best friend when I was younger. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you mentionned that you were an only child, as I am.

Being an only child, one that wasn't over protected by her parents, I was often alone or surrounded by adults. I had a lot of me time and was encouraged to learn how to fill my time alone. I was also brought up to be an educated, responsible independent woman. I was told that family and loved ones were important and should be cherished. My parents led by example and I've always seen them lending a hand to family members going through hard times. Up to that point, I think we can all agree that those are all good values.

However, being an only child, I've always felt that desire to connect with my peers, I've always wanted to belong somewhere, be part of a group. All through school and University, that wasn't really a problem. I had a close knit group of friends that I saw regularly outside of school. That provided me with that sense of belonging I needed, but it also offered me the me time I needed.

When I met my ex partner (before XABF), most of my friends didn't have kids or were married, so I still had that sense of community. Then I met the ex partner, moved to another city with him, created a family with him (he had a son and shared custody with his ex). It was a very healthy relationship, no sign of codependency at all. I actually craved time on my own and would often go spend a weekend time in my hometown.

When we broke up, I came back to my hometown. Only then, all my friends were married, had kids or were planning on having them. Life had changed.

I wasn't part of a family anymore, and the little community I had created with my friends wasn't the same.

That's when I reconnected with XABF. Things moved fast. At first it was a real high! I felt like I had found my person, I felt like I belonged somewhere. I was naive and ignored the red flags. And then, well he needed me. And part of me likes being needed. The problems came when I needed to come up for air, when I needed alone time. He couldn't deal with it. So the fights came, and making up. And the cycle becomes kind of a drug.

All of that to say that, in my case, that need I feel to belong seems not to be a problem as long as I'm in a relationship with a healthy man. The minute there is dysfunction, all bets are off.

So now, I will be working with my therapist on the need to belong. I cannot expect others to fill it. It's my need, so it's my job to fill it.

dandylion

j enniferlynn.....the answer to that question is examined, specifically, in the book---"The Saber Toothed Tiger"......
It is a fast easy read...written by a therapist who has worked extensively with abused women......But, ypu don't have to be abused to benefit from this book.....

dandylion

jenniferlynne76

Kata,
SO much of what you shared resonated with me. So thank you for sharing your "food for thought." As an only child, I also have felt this need to belong that you describe. And I've added the very thing you'll be working on with your therapist to my list of topics to discuss with mine. Thank you for opening your heart and sharing a piece of yourself with me as I work to heal mine.