frannie

Hello friends, I haven't been on this site in weeks, maybe a month or more. Even now, I am not really sure what to say or ask. I have the daughter, 23, who is an addict...been to rehab but in denial now and worse than ever. She has been on probation for a DUI for several months now. Lately she has been totally out of control..a violation of probation just waiting to happen. She finally moved out of the house and in with a girlfriend..not a good influence. I will admit it was peaceful here. Of course I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, and it did. She and the friend had basically been running wild for 2 weeks. She did not even drop by to see us the last week and a half..I would call her and she would act irritated and always have to get off the phone. Finally I get the franctic call that she has been arrested and please, please, come and bail her out. In a moment of confusion and weakness...I did just that...to the tune of $350...She spends the week between the bailout and the court date with the friend and I am to meet her at the courthouse on Monday when her "case" comes up. I do. She is really rather rude to me...her eyes are red and bloodshot, she smell like alcohol to me. I say something and she tells me that if I am going to be like that, like I usually am, then I can just leave. She doesn't want me there. I shut up because I am not really even sure exactly what we are there for or what she is charged with. I soon find out. She stole money from a co-worker's locker over a period of months until they set up a sting with powder on the money and the serial numbers on the money recorded. They caught her..hands stained, matching serial numbers. She admitted it and gave back the $41. They had called the police who then charged her. That caused her to violate probation...which is what I think we were there for (the theft was to come at a later date). She was so hostile to her probation officer (not at all like her) that the officer wanted her drug tested at court. She said she could not give them a sample then...and held out for several hours...until they put her in lock up. She then gave them a sample and failed the test with amphetamines and cocaine in her system. She had been taking diet pills so the amphetamines did not surprise me...the cocaine was a total surprise. I cried most of the afternoon. I told her probation officer that if they set bail I could not pay it...so the judge sent her to jail with no bail for 8 days. We are to return to court on Monday...to hear I know not what???the probation violation, the theft, both. She calls everyday from the jail. Finally tonight, I was very blunt, I told her that if they set bail that we could not pay it anyway. She had depleted our savings, my husband's retirement funds, and maxed out credit cards out by borrowing money already. She was definitely jolted by the news that there would be no bail. I also told her she could move back in but only if she changed her way of life..that we could not live with her the way she is now. She started crying and said she had to get off the phone and would call tomorrow. I was surprised when she called back. She is very intelligent and manipulative..her new angle was that she was in danger...that someone or something was going to harm her. She could not or would not talk about it on the phone. I said fine and we hung up. I think she is just "pulling my chain" with another ploy to make sure we post bond to get her out. I cannot be sure of that, however, so as usual, she gets me to worry and fret. what do you people think?? The sad thing is that we cannot make bail if it is over maybe $100. Surely she is not in danger in the jail...they don't even have her out in the general population. It is a county jail, not a prison. I can only worry based on what I have read and seen on TV. I don't think she has really hit bottom yet. I think she still believes we will be there to bail her out. That is one reason I was so blunt about her possibly having to stay in jail. Am I right about that. I guess I just want the advice of people who are experts on the subject of co-dependency and addiction, and all that goes with it. I would trust any of your observations more than those of friends of mine who have no experience like this in thier own lives. I really think that you have to have lived this to understand the scariness and horribleness of the situation. I still don't think she sounds as though she has changed any due to her incarceration. Do we need to just get of her way and let her hit bottom if and when she gets out. Do we hang in there and not give up on her. I write all this with tears just below the surface. I need some help. Thanks.

Lorelai

frannie -
I'm glad you're back. I'm not expert on co-dependency and addiction by a long shot but I'd like to tell you what I think anyway. My addict is my husband and I can only imagine how much harder this is with a child.

I believe that if we continue to bail out our addicts (both literally and figuratively), the message we are giving them is this:

You are not capable of taking care of yourself. You are so incompetent that I have to step in and fix your life for you. Look at you - you're an adult and you can't get your life together. Someone always has to bail you out and save you. You're a loser.

I believe that this is the core of an addict's thinking anyway. Every time we save them, we reinforce this in their minds. After all, their mothers and fathers and wives know them better than anyone in the world. If we believe that they can't stand on their own two feet, how can we expect them to believe anything else?

I know the pain you feel. I truly believe that the kindest and most loving thing we can do is to show them and tell them that we DO believe that they are strong enough and smart enough to live their own lives and take care of themselves. Maybe they'll start believing it too.
Sending love and strength -
L

Ann

Frannie

I bailed my son out once and only once and it was a huge mistake even once. He make promises that he didn't keep for even 24 hours and all it did was free him to use again.

When they are in jail, they are withdrawing from the drug and desperate and will tell you anything to try to get you to get them out. The stories are not true, they are in less danger than they are when they are out using, and the clean time is good for them.

The thing is Frannie, that all this worry and anxiety will eat you alive if you let it. Like me, you have a child who is an addict, and like me, you can do absolutely nothing to fix it except pray and give it to God.

It is so hard to let go, but that is what we have to do if we are to stay sane. To live in their disease is to go down with them.

If you don't go to meetings, please try a few and see if it doesn't help you in your recovery. Stick around here and read all the "sticky" posts at the top and think hard about what they say. They are not just words, they are what we must know if we are to ever have any hope of stepping out of the darkness.

Let life happen, Frannie, and I promise you that although it may look bleak for her, although she is in jail and may spend more time there, everything is exactly the way it is supposed to be right now and is part of her journey and yours.

Hugs and prayers for both of you
Ann

splendra

(((((frannie))))-

Well girl I have just been waiting to hear back from you. They are fairly predictable ya know. Having 4 active drug addicts in my life I can tell you that her story is every other addicts story.

Jails,institutions,death or, recovery is what her life can be. Frannie please stop believing her BS it will help her reach her bottom much faster than if you keep coming to her rescue. It is like lorelai said the message you are giving her is that she is not capible of getting herself out of her mess. It is her disease that keeps calling you not her can you understand this?

If you really love her and I know you do you will give her over to God and really believ the you are doing the very best thing for her.

frannie

Your replies to a person in need are prompt and your advice is correct and in my best interest not just in my daughter's. I don't know how to thank you. I know that what you say is true and hearing from people who have been there, done that...gives me the courage to stand strong in my beliefs. I have always been steamrolled and bullied into doing what daughter wants...even when I knew it was not the right thing to do. I am determined to let the chips fall where they may this time. I could go to the judge and plead her case and he would probably do what I wished him to do...but I will say nothing because God has control over this situation and he does not need my help. My sister had an interesting insight...she said maybe God has made this happen now, when we cannot financially afford to help her by bailing her out. In that way he has stopped my interfering with his process. Thinking that gives me comfort. And having you tell me that she is safer in jail than she is out on the street using again is something I really NEEDED TO HEAR!!! You know, I had never even considered that my rescuing her only reiforced the idea that she cannot survive on her own. The concept behind that thought is a new comfort, also. You make me feel that I have done the right thing...although it hurts enough to make you question whether you are doing the right thing. I hate that she has to go through this stage in her life, but if something does not change she is destined to kill herself or someone else. May I say one more time...thank you buddies you have strengthened my resolve to do what I know is the right thing to do. Love to all of you!!

Ann

Frannie

I re-read this today and something jumped out at me...

"Not giving up on her" is the key here. Doing everything for her IS giving up on her, it is believing that she cannot do for herself, that she is incapable of accepting the consequences of her actions".

When my son learned, the hard way, that there ARE consequences for stealing, he stopped stealing. When he stole from me, I did nothing...at first I pretended it didn't happen because I didn't want a confrontation, and then I did tell him I knew but gave no consequence and it continued. When I told him that next time I would report it to the police, and when he got picked up and charged with shoplifting and went to jail for a week before they let him out on probation, it was the beginning of him truly understanding that he WOULD have to pay the consequence.

Frannie, I simply told my son that I loved him as much on his worst day as on his best day, but that I would no longer contribute anything more than my love and encouragement. He understood that. Oh sure, in desperate moments he tried to play on that, saying that I didn't love him, but when he was clean, when he was not letting his disease speak for him, he told me that through it all, he KNEW that I loved him. That is all that I needed to know. That sees me through even the darkest day. Te rest is truly between my son and God.

Hugs
Ann

Gabe

Frannie,
I can't add a thing to the wise words above.
Just wanted to send you some
Hugs,
Gabe

JT

Frannie...my son is in jail right now for multiple DUI's and let me tell you something. When I say "no" he raises the bar. When I say "no" again he raises the bar again. He has told me that I don't love him, that I never do anything for him, that it is all our fault...he has sworn at me, begged me, blamed me, cried, hung up on me and yes tried to scare me. All of these things are tactics to get me to do what he wants me to do.

Another thing I have learned is that I can not go to jail and plead his case...the judge has no interest in hearing from me. The police, the PO's and the judges know the scoop and they know it well.

My son and your daughter are addicts and they are doing what addicts do. They are trying to manipulate the last person in their corner at all cost to get what they want...out. After they are out they will become rude all over again and there is no way they will follow the home rules.

In the last year or so I have brought me son home twice and both times I have had to ask him to leave...I do not want to put myself through that again. It is too hard....on me. He just finds a friend to move to and use. I am left wondering and worrying.

Reading your post, all I could think of was how typical her behavior is. She is not unique...none of them are. There must be a script they pass among each other...she is doing what an addict does! Try your best to remember that and stick close. There are other mom's here...lot's of them...to cover your back through all of this.

(((Hugs)))
JT

frannie

:bigeyes2: Dear Friends, I have read and reread your replies. They are a great source of comfort for me. Hopefully, they will help give me the strength to do what I have to do. She called from jail this morning and was all pitiful and weepy again. I asked what danger she had been talking about last night and she said it was nothing specific...just that there are bad people in jail. What a real light bulb moment that must have been for her. And the sad thing is that she belongs right there with them. She may have had a nicer life, come from a higher socioeconomic level...but she is in jail for theft...a very commen thief. I shall try to point that out at some time...I just hate to kick her while she is down...but I guess that is when one should kick an addict...so that maybe they learn a lesson and hit that elusive rock bottom. It is still hard to be this way as a parent. I love her and hate seeing her having done this and getting sent to jail for it. I am so totally confused in my feelings...one minute I want her to come home and get out of that environment and the next minute I want her to have to stay a few weeks longer so that she really learns her lesson. I know that I have nothing to do with that...God and the judge will decide what happens to her. I am still grief stricken as a parent to see her this way. Tomorrow is court day and when they bring her in from the holding cell with her orange prison jumpsuit on, I am going to have to try really hard to keep it all together. This time my husband will be with me, however, so that may help. Last Monday I had not told him and so I went through the whole ordeal by myself...I told him and now he can support me..he always does. I did not tell him the first time because he is always under a lot of stress from his job and I thought I would spare him the mess until it was all over. I felt that there was no reason for us both to suffer. I found out that I cannot handle it on my own, however. Everytime I think of her, it hurts my heart. I will be glad when it is over and done with. I pray constantly that God take the problem and deal with it as he wishes. That is not hard because I simply cannot do anything. My greatest fear is that this will not be the last time we have to go through this. I hope she changes, but I have my serious doubts. Pray for us tomorrow as we go to court and see what the future will be. I love you all for your support.

splendra

Frannie-

Try to remember when she calls from jail that it is her disease not her calling. Step back from her situation you do not have to go through it with her. My mom thjinks everytime something happens to one of her kids that it happens to her too but, that is not the truth Frannie it is not happening to you it is happening to her.

Believe me Judges, DA's, probation officers all know about co-dependence I believe that often people get stiffer sentences when these officals see that addicts/alcoholics have too much support and clearly not taking responsibility for themselves in order to give the family time to seek help. A mothers tears often anger the judge.....

Lorelai

I just hate to kick her while she is down...but I guess that is when one should kick an addict

I don't know about anybody else Frannie but I don't believe that is true. I think that my addict kicks himself enough without me pointing it out to him.

I can treat him with love and respect and let him figure out what he did wrong and is doing wrong for himself. I just can't save him from the consequences of his own decisions.

You don't have to "kick" her at all. She knows why she's in jail. She knows that she had an opportunity for a better life. She knows that she screwed up. She knows that you know that too. No need to tell her.
Hugs - L

jojo

Frannie -

Sorry you are going through this. Everyone has given you excellent advice. As far as keeping your daughter's situation from your husband - shouldn't he be the one to decide what he can handle? She is his daughter too. Codependent behavior usually isn't limited to just one person in your life and until you become aware of that behavior it will never change. Try and get to an Alanon meeting and do some reading. It is amazing how much we recognize ourselves when we read about codependency. I'll say a prayer for you and yours. Take care of yourself and let the courts handle your daughter. She may get exactly what she needs.

Hugs, Jo

frannie

Well, today is the day. We are to be in court at 9:00...at least that is when it starts...it usually is a slow process so that we will be there all day. I will see my daughter in her prison orange jumpsuit. I will be strong and not cry. I know that whatever happens is between her and God. God will take care of things as He knows they need to be. If more jail time is needed to really make the point, He will know and will bring that about. I must simply "keep my heart on and my hands off". I don't know where I read that but I read constantly and that seems to perfectly fit my situation. Please pray for our family as we go through today. Any and all of you friends who read this, we need your prayers to accept Gods will and to truly hand it over to Him. Please pray for me.

cwohio

frannie - prayers and support to you and your family!!!

higs - cwohio

redrose0729

Frannie I wish I could get my mother to read your post and the others. My brother is an addict and it causes her so much pain that sometimes she wishes he was dead. No one can talk to her about his problem because she cannot handle hearing it. She is already on nerve medication and her doctor wants her to start therapy but she says she doesn't have the time (she really is a very busy woman). I watch her and I hurt. My neice was in a juvenile facility and she had been out under house arrest at my parents house she failed a drug test at a probation meeting and was sent back. She had to figure out on her own that if she wanted out of there she had to go to rehab and she did. It has not been rosey since but she is closer to having her life than my brother. She wanted to do something with her life so now she is at job corps and she loves it even though she got put on restriction after failing a drug test. My parents have been there but not bailed her out of her situations and her rich boyfriend is in the state penn now so he cannot help her either. She has had a very hard life but I know she will make it and that is partly to the fact that she has had no one to keep bailing her out when she got out of rehab , she lived with my parents house for a little while and then moved out with her boyfriend my parents let her know that if she got in trouble agian she would be charged as an adult and would have to face the penalties on her own that is the best thing they ever did for her. When she got scared of getting arrested again she came back to my parents house and started planning her life she says she still loves her boyfriend and they plan to move to Florida after he gets out but he still has plenty of time in prison left and she is getting an education . I know God has his hand with her and she will grow up and she will be alright it just took people to take their hands out of it and let her do it on her own. We support her with her right decisions and my parents has helped her take her GED exam several times that is where their support towards her is . I just wish my parents could do the same thing for my brother as they did my neice.

mysonbroken

Hi Frannie,

I know how you are feeling. My son is 18 and has been involved with drugs and alchohol for the past 5 years. He is also in jail right now on a probation violation for juvenile charges. He goes to court on Thursday for NEW ADULT charges. Two weeks ago was the first time I had to see my son in the orange jumpsuit and all the shackles, it is completely heartbreaking.

I wish you well with your daughter, keep your head up and remember it's not your fault. I have to remind myself of that every single day.

Big Hug,
Kim

frannie

:rose Good afternoon, my friends, We are home from our court date. Our daughter is with us. God truly blessed her and made many things go in her favor that could just as easily gone the other way and caused her to be sent back to jail. At any rate, she is home, with time served and a strict probation, she has to live at home with us and she has to be evaluated by a drug rehab center on Thursday to see if the needs outpatient counseling. I wish we had the money to send her to rehab for several weeks or months, but we did that once when she had insurance and now that she has lost her job she has none. It is unfortunate that drug rehab is so very expensive, even with insurance. The judge could easily have sent her back to jail unless she could go to rehab...and jail certainly is in no way a rehab for anything. She seems to be a different person, said she attended church everyday...she tried out all the denominations available. She said she was saved Sunday night...at the Church of Christ service...she also tried Catholic, Jehovahs Witness, literally tried them all. That is what we have prayed for the most...that she be saved and through that personal relationship with God that she could really start to change her life. She said that she had come prepared to have to go back to jail because she thought she would have to. The thing that scared her today was that they sent her drug test for further testing and found out that the cocaine level in her blood was lethal. She is a very lucky young lady that she did not die. We were shocked at the news of such use...we didn't ever know that cocaine was a problem for her. We think now that God did indeed have a hand in her violating probation and being drug tested before she did kill herself. Two young people around her age and of her acquaintance have both died from accidental overdoses in the past year and a half. She could very well have been the third. Thank you all for your prayers and wonderful advice. I know that she has just taken the first step on the long road to recovery, but at least she is headed in that direction. We have also learned that sometimes a parent must let their child fall down and take the consequences of their decisions. We would probably have tried to rescue again but God made it impossible for us to do so. I am so very glad that all the pressure of a court date is out of the way and maybe we can begin to change. My love to all of you and thank you again for your prayers and concern.

JT

Frannie...I remember so clearly all the lost sleep, crying and worrying about the Beav when he had to go to court. They don't want them in jail, they don't have room in jail and I can't count the times that my own worst case scenerio never came to be.

I am happy that you are happy,
JT

jojo

Frannie -

I'm glad that things turned out well for your daughter. As far as treatment is concerned, now that she no longer has a job she just might qualify for state funded treatment. It is based on income and need and the programs can be very good. Check with your community based help centers.

Take a deep breath and do something just for you.

Hugs, Jo

Magichappens

Wishing you and your family healing and happiness. Let us know how things are going. Hugs, Magic