Chantal88

You can have boundaries and leave the addict in your life and still acknowledge that the studies being done will be helpful to people.

If you are with an abusive person - you should leave. The article doesn't advocate being abused.

FlippedRHalo

Studies can be helpful, and, they can be unhelpful. They can also be completely off base.

Think of how many times we've heard things such as: coffee is bad for you, no wait, it's good for you. Nope, it'll kill you. Oh wait, it lowers your chance of certain cancers.

I don't think anyone truly knows the inner working of addiction, how it starts or how to cure it. Call me pessimistic, but I don't see either happening any time soon. There are too many variables.

I left my ex-husband. He was an alcoholic and an addict. Tossed him out the door, bag and baggage, after he left an open bottle of pills spilled all over the table and floor while our little one was running around. He was passed out on the couch when I came down the stairs from showering. Thank God she didn't eat them.

This was 2 days after he fell down the stairs with her in his arms because he was so high he couldn't function.

Yeah, he needed to be "loved" more and I needed to "support" him more than I already did. At the expense of my daughter's life? Nah, no thanks. An adult and their issues will never take precedence over an innocent child's life in my world. EVER. At that point, there was no love left in me. He could have froze and starved to death out in a ditch for all I could have cared after those 3 days.

His family, my family and the few friends he had left ALL walked away from him at that point. Turned our backs. We were all done. We'd all had enough of "loving him through it" and being understanding. He lost any rights to visit our daughter. He initially was given supervised visits, however, he either wouldn't show or he was high as a kite when he did. Judge yanked all visitation. This little girl was his life and well, I guess she couldn't love her daddy enough either.

He ended up out on a loooong drinking and drug binge, all alone, and landed in the psych unit of a VA hospital. Guess what happened? He finally got up off of his ass, embraced treatment and has now been clean and sober for well over a year.

He's taking our daughter to visit his family this weekend. He spent the holidays with his daughter and my family. He has his own apartment overlooking the water. He goes to the gym daily. He still carries some of the traits that I thought were only because of his addiction, but, he's clean, he's sober and he's doing very well for himself and taking great care of his daughter. And, for once, we're friends.

Chantal88

Flipped -

Thank you for sharing your story. I am glad that at this point in your life you are able to be friends with him after everything you went through.

However, do you see the point I am making about detaching emotionally? I know that it can be difficult to look at an article or study and have no emotional response to it when it deals with an issue that has impacted your life so severely. I know it's not easy to debate the topic of love and support when it comes to addiction. But how is anything going to ever change with alcohol addiction if we are not open to new information and new theories?

Don't you think that the younger generations deserve more answers and better options than what we have been given?

I don't know all the dynamics of alcohol addiction, but I am open to learning more. And I think we should be grateful that they are even researching this disease, because there are many diseases that get zero funding.

Being closed off only embraces ignorance. And while being open embraces uncertainty and stirs debate, that is exactly what is needed for change.

I hope that when I am older and I have kids - they don't ever have to see someone die from addiction. It's not something that should happen. So I am thankful for all the scientists and researchers who are devoting their lives to finding answers. Even if they don't get it right away, I know that with time they will improve many people's lives and that is what matters.

We should be supporting these researchers - not ridiculing them.

FlippedRHalo

I do understand what you're saying and why you feel the way you do. I completely understand what you mean about emotionally detaching. I feel differently. We can agree to disagree.

I would love for researchers to figure out what causes addiction and how to overcome it, however, at this age, and after what I've seen between my own family, marriage to an addict/alcoholic, relationships with alcoholics (both romantic and friendly), working in a hospital department that deals with addiction/alcoholism on a daily basis, watching the trauma suffered because of those addictions/alcoholism, and that which is done to the family members (very often children) and, through my current studies in nursing, I've yet to see a single addict/alcoholic reach recovery because they were 'loved' enough. Never. Not once.

I HAVE witnessed, many times over, addicts recover from hitting absolute bottom and losing it all.

I've also witnessed more addicts than I care to remember relapse over and over and over again no matter what they've previously lost and no matter how much they've been loved, coddled and hand held through it. However, the 'rock bottom' recovery seems to hold more water, in my experiences, in long term recovery.

You can NOT love an addict/alcoholic through to the other side. You just can not. They have to walk out of that cage on their own.

When they're endangering their own children (mentally, physically, accidentally), stealing from their loved ones, manipulating, lying, deceiving and everything in between, I'm sorry, but no family member/loved one should be made to feel that they need to, or should, do more.

Research until the cows come home, that's fabulous, but with that research, be very careful and responsible in how you present it.

My point is this... addiction is complex. Addiction is already handled in a variety of ways. There are so many theories and none have ever, nor ever will, work for everyone. NOBODY has the answers. I hope one day they do. I'm not very hopeful though. Not in this lifetime.

LemonGirl

SR is OUR community of support... Unique in that most friends and family in our immediate lives don't have the empathy we all do here. Real life understanding. But I know that it is not only healthy to reach out for help, and to reach out to others, but it is part of the healing process and it's necessary. Isn't that true of our loved ones... our A's? I guess the information here could completely coincide with our version of "letting them fall to rock bottom", because the rock bottom is what makes them "ready" to receive all that we might be able to offer. (Able, because we do not carry the capacity to do it all alone.)

HopefulinFLA

This was an interesting article to say the least. I agree with many of the other posters here who feel that addiction is multifaceted and can't be pegged into a one-size-fits-all model for either development or treatment. Also, human beings are far more complex than rats!

I think the origins of alcoholism and addiction are probably more of a nature and nurture situation and I can see where the lack of human connection/bonding in early childhood development might be a catalyst for future substance dependency issues. My RAH's early childhood seems relevant to this idea. He was born to a mother who had anxiety issues, and a father who traveled extensively for work. When RAH was about a year old, his mom had a nervous breakdown while his father was away. She had to be hospitalized and of course dad came home and found a local job and invited his grandmother to live with them and help out his mother. What transpired with RAH and mother while they were alone and how it affected him is something we'll probably never know. He has told me though that he remembers being a fearful child lacking confidence which lead to his attraction for alcohol as he got older. That's the nurture part of it. On the nature side, he was probably genetically predisposed to alcoholism as his father's drinking spiraled out of control into full fledged alcoholism when RAH was a teenager.

I certainly don't feel like this excuses ANY of his bad behaviors while in active alcoholism. He was always fully aware of what he'd done and who he's hurt. I don't see him as a victim AT ALL. In fact when I think of all the things that he's done/not done that have hurt not only me, but others, it makes me really angry to think that some BS "scientist" out there might suggest that I just love him a little more to make it all better. Don't you think every last one of us already tried that and failed???

This a great thread. Thanks to the OP for sharing.

FlippedRHalo

Except that we come here to reach out to others who've been in our shoes. Most of us haven't been in our A's shoes. Recovered A's have, which is why they're encouraged to reach out to them in groups such as AA and in various other support groups dealing with addiction/alcoholism, etc...

Stung

Weird article.

I recently read a CNN article (found here: Brain scans could help doctors better predict your behavior) about how brain scans will help us learn how to better treat a wide range of medical aliments…including addiction. They even show a picture of how an addict brain looks in comparison to a healthy brain. Love cannot fix holes in an addict brain.

I'm very compassionate towards my husband. Addiction is a struggle that I'll thankfully never experience first hand, but love, kindness or compassion are not the cures for addiction anymore than love can cure a broken leg. Maybe him having self love and compassion towards himself…but that kind of internal acceptance is part of what working a program is all about to begin with.

fairlyuncertain

I read the article, and it tugged at my codependent heart. Then I thought about it a little more.

What the rats experienced was an enriched community--not just one other rat, wiping the sweat from the addicted rat's whiskers They got healthy in a community, not in a single relationship. There's a huge difference. These studies don't suggest that we need to lock ourselves up in that miserable cage, sacrificing our own happiness so the addict isn't alone.

Here's what we (ideally) do, at SR, in al-anon, in AA, and in life: we get ourselves healthy, so we can be healthy and present for our kids, our families. We reach out from there into hobbies, meaningful work, other relationships, adventures, etc. We have healthy boundaries. Are the addicts a part of our healthy life? Depends on how they react to our boundaries and positive choices! Maybe they curse us for not joining them in the cage. So what? There's more to the rat park than one addict (although you couldn't tell that to the addict).

There is nothing healthy about giving up that enriched community, to stay focused on the misery of one rat, excluding all other joys in life.

To be that healthy community, we have to be awesome ourselves. And THAT is our responsibility. That healthy society doesn't happen when we're all stressed, upset, grief-stricken and paying attention to an addict's problems.

My first reaction, reading that article, was shame. Science proved it; I'd failed. But I imagine a wide open park, full of families and friends, kind strangers and acquaintances; and I'm just one piece of a very complicated puzzle.

Maybe I can't be the kind of love that a particular person needs. But I still have a lot to offer to my community and family. And so do you all!

GracieLou

I have not read the article yet but...

For one, I created my own isolation, even as a child. My own thoughts took me away from people. I had to be the one to get over that and reach out. I didn't have anyone in my personal life that was in my corner to support and love me from the first day. I had no cheering section at home. My mother lived with with me and I have children yet neither talked to me, called me or visited me with hugs, love or words of encouragement. I found all that in the rooms of AA and today I am sober.

I don't fault my family. I don't believe they stayed away because of my past, I think they just didn't know what to say or do and in the end..It was the best thing they could have done for me. I would not have reached out to others if I had someone at home. I would have tried to lay it on them rather than reaching out to the people that had the answers. The people that are at home, that are not recovering alcoholics, do not have them.

The people in the meetings and my sponsor had them.

While my children are happy I am sober, they don't call everyday and ask me how I am. They don't text me and ask me if I am still sober. They don't pray for me either, I didn't teach them how to behave that way because I was not taught to behave that way.

All I can do now is be a living example by remaining sober and working my program. I got sober for me. If it helps them at some point then that is wonderful and I pray it does but if it does not, I still remain sober, for me.


For two, I am an alcoholic. I believe I was born with the craving. I drank like an alcoholic from day one. So there is no off switch in me. That is nobody's fault, not even mine. I just don't have one. Could be genetic, I don't know and I really don't care at this point.

No people or 100 people is not going to change that fact. I can't grow one.

allforcnm

Thanks for posting this. I am sharing it with my recovery circle… I fall mostly on the side of evidence based approaches.

One of the doctors mentioned in this article; Dr Gabor Mate.. he has a very good book called In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts.. in addition there is an article similar to this one called Kind Love Beats Tough Love where he talks some about the book and his own research working in Canada with people who have severe addictions.

I went through the article and never saw where it was said ‘love’ could cure addiction, or family is to blame for not showing enough love..

I saw these things written, and I agree with both:

When my husband first became addicted, I had no experience or past history dealing with it. He started on prescription pain meds after multiple surgeries related to an injury. At first I was angry because it seemed a stupid thing to do basically. He lied and exhibited many of the other symptoms of addiction.

This article mentions ” bonding and connection” … my husband was frustrated and depressed about being off on medical leave, feeling like he was slipping behind, unable to meet his personal goals, unable to spend much time with his friends in normal sporting activities due to his injury.. so there was isolation. Even though we had a good relationship, people are multi-faceted and I believe the part about needing healthy connections in many areas of life. This coupled with access created a dangerous situation for him and led to the path of addiction.

He moved out after more lies and continued drug use… I encouraged it, and regretted it later because his addiction did actually grow more severe. He was back at work, but now his personal and family connections were broke.

When he was in active addiction I explored options for family and remember being told there was nothing I could do, and tough love was best. But I gradually saw it was the wrong approach for me, and I changed strategy.

What eventually got him into treatment was engaging with him again, encouraging a stint in evidence based rehab where he could get the help the needed. He says our marriage, and our son were his motivating factors initially.. which would be restoring the bonds… and then he came to realize all of the things in life he wanted for himself which created positive incentive for change.

I think the article actually puts emphasis on a couple of important factors… in mainstream people with addictions are often segregated and labeled.. told they are different, and normal people cant understand them… but in this article there is a suggestion of bonding, love, acceptance… into normal life… they recover.. are not defined by their addiction any longer. This is the way my husband and I felt about recovery.

The Community Reinforcement Approach which is used by professionals to promote and encourage change through use of motivation and incentives for patients to reach goals, engage in treatment, etc. It has very good results. In a way it mimics the mouse experiements.. because results show people will often choose to receive a reward for compliance.. instead of choosing to use a substance. This reward helps create motivation until other internal motivations kicks in for the patient.

Community Reinforcement and Family Training which is an evidence based program for families .. its based off similar principles and again ties into bonding. Family “voluntarily” stays engaged with their family member. There are many components involved.. changing the dynamics in the home to be healthier between the family members.. but one aspect is encouraging positive behaviors, rewarding non drug use.. also strengthening the relationship bond… but disengaging when there are negative behaviors.. breaking the bond… There are multiple studies on this, even comparing it to other programs families use.. and this method scores the highest for getting people to make the decision to engage in treatment. .. they make the decision voluntarily… the external motivators help stir the desire for internal changes.

This is valuable because according to National Institue of Drug Abuse..the National Institue of Health.. the concept of rock bottom is a myth..its not necessary for treatment to be effective… addiction needs to be treated in the same manner as other medical issues.. early detection and treatment yield the best results.. other studies show most people who enter treatment do so because of encouragement by family, friends, work, or the legal system. Obviously its better to stop due to family pressure than that of the legal system…

I think the article is really providing the same overall message… external motivators help people find their own internal motivation.. bonding with those things they value most in life.. personal relationships. life goals, feeling of accomplishment, etc.

On the family side.. due to evidence based research I know people recover from addictions.. if I had it to do over again, I never would have asked my husband to move out early in his addiction, and I would have used more supportive approaches.. we lost a year. What I have learned is that its possible to take care of myself.. my son.. and not detach from someone who is using substances BUT I also know its an individual choice for each of us & sometimes its not possible for various reasons. On the flip side I feel good about all the support Ive given him starting with encouraging treatment .. and ending up where we are now.. almost 3 years later with a beautiful 3 year old little boy, and all three of us healthy. Im not taking credit for his recovery by the way.. but I think I helped provide a healthy, supportive, loving environment for him to find recovery.

lillamy

Here, Stung, is one example of what you're talking about:

lillamy

And let me explain why people sometimes get "emotional" (as someone was accused of being) about science:

When you're a scientist, and you see junk science get written up in the media -- when you sit there and see that their methodology was wrong, that their samples were inadequate, that their conclusions were pushed beyond what could reasonably be concluded, their studies were published in some podunk journal that's widely known among scientists to be garbage... and these results are then touted in the media as The Truth about whatever... you tend to become a little hot under the collar.

Because, see, real scientists do NOT want to be associated with bad science any more than doctors want to be associated with quacks or pharmacists with drug dealers.

Everyone is clearly free to believe whatever they want -- but seeing as I work with scientists who deal with this every day, I felt I wanted to get to the defense of those who were attacked for "getting emotional about science."

Florence

Agreed, lillamy. The Rat Park study is 40 years old, was unable to be replicated by others, and was only published in a 3rd tier medical journal after being rejected by several top tier journals. A guy who is marketing his next book publishes an article endorsing the widsom of 40 year old junk science, sends the addiction community into a frenzy because it's so counter to everything else said out there.

Science really isn't about our feelings or about some mystical force beyond our understanding -- it's about the operation, observation, and understanding of general laws and the ability to replicate those laws under similar conditions. It sounds like the Rat Park guy pumped up his findings and while others agree that environment has some effect on addiction/addicts it is not the panacea it's made out to be in his research or in this article.

I highly recommend that people who are intersted in the science of addiction get familiar with the basics.
Addiction Science | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)
The Science of Addiction: Genetics and the Brain
GREAT Movie series: HBO: Addiction

lillamy

Good links, Florence -- actually, if they're not already stickied, maybe we could ask the mods to stick them in a sticky?

Florence

That HBO series is a four disc set, and you can get it on Amazon for under $20. It was integral to me to finally understand that this wasn't a moral or willpower issue that my XAH was experiencing because it lays it out there so plainly, including on the brain science, the difficulty getting health coverage for treatment, the social stigma, challenges for families, etc., and they interview the most respected researchers on addiction science today. It's a complete, comprehensive and compassionate look at addiction.

cynical one

Here I go getting all "emotional" again. But, when the results of their own studies do not match their words to the public, I have to question the science behind it.

And, as far as evidence based treatment goes, almost all rehabs use evidence based treatment, as the majority of rehabs (in the US at least) use 12-Step Facilitation...which of course is evidence based.

Morning Glory

The one thing I've learned in over 20 years is that I don't have the power to cure
alcoholism. I've done it ALL and it's beyond my ability and out of my hands.

I can't give myself credit for successes and I can't beat myself up for failure.

Recovery comes from within.

LvWrAM123

I absolutely think that a lack of attachment is a common denominator among a lot of behaviorally-related disorders/illness, and I can see that it can play a role in addiction as well.

I am active in the adoption community and have studied a lot about attachment, and incidentally, my RAH was adopted, and yes, I think there are some attachment/abandonment issues that have played a role in his issues.

But here is the thing-attachment is a 2-way relationship. Most health and mental health related issues are "caused" by a combination of genetic AND environmental factors. If a person is in an environment where there is no one to attach/connect to, that will have an impact on them, and I can see how it could be one contributing factor to developing an addiction or other mental/behavioral disorder. But as we all know, solely someone loving an addict or even a million people living an addict can't love them sober, in the same way that not every traumatized, abused child adopted into a new family can simply be loved healthy either. There are a lot of factors at play, the key one of course that the "broken" or sick person has to engage in and be open to that attachment, and the disease/illness/disorder and extent of the damage at that point sometimes prevents that.

Attachment and support DOES seem to be a pretty important piece of the healing for those who do heal-our support of eachother on SR., success of programs like AA (my husband could never get long term sobriety on his own-it took rehab and takes regular mtgs at AA -support/connection-for him to maintain. I also think him knowing his family and extended family are all rooting for him and proud of his success helps.

BUT, prior to where he is now, all that same love and support also existed-family loved him and supported him, had insurance and access to treatment, AA meetings in town daily-He was surrounded by a huge support system, but HE wasn't able or ready to engage with it.

And Unfortunately, some alcoholics/troubled or struggling people are either too broken or sick to be able to get to that place of engagement, ever.

Yeah, I think love, resources, support play a role in establishing positive mental health and play a big part in recovery for many, but in NO WAY are they a cure, and for those offering the LOVE to a sick person who is not able to engage in that support/love/attachment in a way that leads them to healing, the result for them is that they will be negatively affected by the sick person and go down with the ship, so at some point they have to save themselves or else the net result is just more sick/broken/struggling souls.

LOVE/support may be 1 useful ingredient to recovery, but ALONE it is not enough, and if you don't have ALL the ingredients, the MOST IMPORTANT of which is an interest AND ability in the part of the SICK PERSON TO ENGAGE in the treatment/relationship, recovery to health won't happen, no matter how much love those around the sick person pour into them.

Chantal88

Florence -

In my earlier post I posted a excerpt that shows that the Rat Park experiment's results were replicated, here is the quote again:

"In 2013, a similar study found socially isolating adolescent rats caused high rates of alcohol and amphetamine addiction in adulthood and it took longer for the isolated rats to overcome the addiction.[19]"

Here are the name of some other studies that have been done that validate the Rat Park expriment.

Effects of enriched environment on morphine-induced reward in mice Experimental Neurology Volume 204, Issue 2, April 2007, Pages 714–719


Enriched Environment Confers Resistance to 1-Methyl-4-Phenyl-1,2,3,6-Tetrahydropyridine and Cocaine: Involvement of Dopamine Transporter and Trophic Factors The Journal of Neuroscience, 3 December 2003, 23(35): 10999-11007;


Socially Isolated Rats are More Vulnerable to Addiction, Report Researchers University of Texas, January 23, 2013.


I can see doubting one study that was done 40 years ago. But these experiments are recent and they produced the same results.