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Old 01-22-2015, 08:26 AM
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Hmmm interesting and applied to my RAH accurate. 2 sons. One wanted (Brother P) and one unwanted (RAH). Very dysfunctional family no connection for RAH with his father who never gave him the time of day yet lavished attention on P.

I can see this being accurate. What I don't agree with it that taking the rat from the empty cage with drugs to "rat-land" is successful for human beings. Certainly many an A finds what they didn't have in a relationship, job, or whatever they were lacking, and many are very successful. But still A's.

This is where a 12 step program comes in to untangle the mess, and its such a process. Its why you can't take an active alcoholic, place them in a great environment and "poof" the alcoholism is gone. Theoretically if that were true then they would no longer be alcoholics period, just like the rats, and would be able to moderately drink if they chose to. NOT.

Interesting food for thought. I don't really think its pertinient to decipher through the psychology of all the trauma as far as alcoholism is concerned. I think it is pertinent to grow as a human being, and to let go of past injuries - but it won't solve alcoholism either. The only thing I have ever seen that works is the desire to get sober and people do it everyday that aren't in the best environments or situations.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:30 AM
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I have something else to say about this that totally discredits this article. I have a younger brother. My parents treated him like he was the Golden Boy who did no wrong. Me, they beat up for anything I ever did "wrong", from getting a B- in a class they thought I should have aced, to coming home past curfew. Although I have had problems with over doing it with alcohol in the past, I never became addicted, and since my son was born, I barely drink at all. My brother, on the other hand, has been to jail several times for DWIs and possession of cocaine. he dealt pot and Ecstasy all throughout high school, and even bought his first car with drug money. They know all about my struggles with AXBF, and get pissed at me because it took me awhile to leave him completely. My son and I lived with them for awhile, and they kicked us out because they don't approve of how I parent. They think I don't discipline my son because I don't yell at him or spank him. Yet they have spent thousands of dollars on lawyers to keep my brother out of jail. My mother is still very co-dependent, and gets very insulted when I suggest AlAnon to her. So yeah...having a hard life is not really an excuse, IMHO.

Please accept my apologies for my anger today
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:56 AM
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Addiction is so complicated. There is nothing, in addiction, that is black and white. For someone to even attempt to sum it up into a neat little package of "if they're happy, have a job, love, etc...they will overcome addiction" is pure BS. No, nope, not even close, no way.

I read that article last night and if I didn't have a decent handle on understanding the dynamics of addiction and my relationship to it in terms of my own codependency, it would have sent me reeling. I sat there imagining how many people, struggling to move on after being in an addictive relationship, just got thrown back 100 feet and knocked to their knees by reading that. Irresponsible in my opinion and certainly not backed up enough by any real, significant evidence.

I work in a hospital and I'm currently in school to become certified in addiction nursing. I'm certainly NOT a professional by any means, however, through life circumstances (growing up with too many addicts/alcoholics), personal experiences, work related experience, extensive amounts of schooling to date, and everything else I've seen/been though, I can't even remotely subscribe to this. Not even close.

For instance, just an example of two people:

I grew up in an alcoholic/addicted/physically & mentally abusive home. My father was an abusive alcoholic and my mother was a depressed alcoholic addicted to benzos. I lost 2 close family members to overdoses. I lost 2 other close family members (one being my younger brother) to drunk driving accidents. I was probably the loneliest, most depressed and anxious kid walking the earth back then. I had no sense of self, no sense of love, no sense of security, no sense of direction. I don't think I had low self esteem, I don't think I had ANY. At around the age of 15, I rebelled. HARD. I had good friends and I had bad friends. I chose to mostly hang out with the bad friends. My boyfriend at that time was an alcoholic and sold/did cocaine. I drank and I did cocaine right along with him. ALL of the people I hung out with back then, and through my middle 20's, drank heavily and did drugs. I tended bar from the age of 18 on, I had unlimited access to alcohol and drugs. I did both until I was 21. Sometimes often, sometimes not so often. It all depended on my mood and what was going on in my life. I continued to tend bar at night until I was almost 30, while also working at the hospital. I knew all of the dealers on a first name basis because they all hung out at the bar.

I got pregnant with my daughter at 21. Since that moment, I have never again touched a drug. Not marijuana, not cocaine, nothing. I continued to drink on occasion when I had friends over or when I was out, but that was it. My responsibility as a mother kicked in and I was done with it all. In my late 30's and couldn't imagine doing any of that now. I had every factor in place to become addicted. I had the genetic history, the access, the traumatic childhood, the social setting, the drug dealing boyfriend, the bar. It would have been easy.

My ex-fiance grew up in the white picket fence family. Doting mother and hard working father. Beautiful house, affluent suburban area. Well off family. He had an alcoholic father, but very high functioning. He coached their sports teams and was very involved with his children. His family (extended) are all extremely close and loving. His friends consisted of the "good kids". Nothing that I know of that was too traumatic besides normal growing up things. He graduated from high school, went off to college and that is where the heavy drinking started. He's a full blown alcoholic now with no end in sight.


Why him and not me? He had the good upbringing with the loving, supportive family and 'good' friends. He didn't have half the trauma in his life that I did. He did good things and I did bad things. I had the perfect setting to fall into addiction and he had the opposite, except for the genetic/social factor of his father being a functioning alcoholic.

I could give so many more examples that make this 'revelation' about addiction make no sense.

As far as loving the addict/alcoholic...hmm. I don't think I could have loved him anymore than I did. I don't think we could have had more than we had. Our families supported us, we have (well, he HAD) a beautiful home, we were best friends and from the outside looking in, we were the 'perfect' couple in every way.

You can NOT love someone out of addiction. You just can't. How many of us have tried just on this board alone without even taking into account the millions upon millions of other parents, wives, boyfriends, etc...that have pulled out all the stops to love their addict through it?

There are too many factors to attempt to tie it up so neatly. Genetics, personality, social structures, biological factors and so much more.

Addicts create their own cages, mental cages., and real cages even. If you put an addict into a nice environment, he will destroy it. ..they seem to be unaware they are doing it, they just automatically destroy until their real world matches whatever mental impression they have of the world

This, right here, is what hits home the most. I've witnessed this first hand. I've watched this unfold in my own family more times than I care to remember. I've watched as addicted family members stole, beat up their mother AND grandmother and take the food right from their children's mouths to feed their addiction because NOTHING ELSE MATTERED.

This author, in my opinion, is extremely irresponsible with their writing and research and I'm left feeling a bit disgusted. As well as angry and concerned thinking about the many people that have probably read this and have been set far back because of it.
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:29 AM
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Blah blah blah. Sorry--just not buyin' it. I don't believe for a minute that instability and loneliness cause addiction. Sure, they probably contribute to lesser or greater degrees depending on the individual addict, but they aren't among the primary causes. I believe addiction is too incredibly complex to reduce it all to "they just don't get enough love".

I will agree with the idea that addicts in safe, healthy, supportive surroundings can have an easier time of getting and staying sober, but I believe it is much more productive to focus on an addict's behaviors than his/her environment. To emphasize what OTHER PEOPLE can do to enhance recovery just reinforces some addicts' ideas about responsibility, blame, and learned helplessness. Some like to redirect attention from their own bad behaviors to others' failures and shortcomings, real or perceived, and this lets them off the hook for not doing what they need to do to change.

I think it's also a disservice to the addict's loved ones, who are probably already struggling with what they perceive to be their inadequate response to the problem. Codependent or not, I'm sure every one of us is thinking "it's my fault. I didn't love him enough. I didn't (insert insecurity here) enough. If only I could (heroic sacrifice), he would be able to stop." It's difficult enough to deal with the guilt we feel when we create whatever distance we need to be safe, but now we have to counter "science" in addition to our own irrational beliefs? B@lls to that, I say.
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:34 AM
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I've gotta say, too, the author of this essay isn't at the end of this story yet. He is romanticizing the power in wiping his partner's sweaty, detoxing brow, but has yet to experience whether love conquers addiction after all.

I'm looking forward to his follow-up.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:15 AM
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I found the article well written - as an op-ed / blog type piece and marketing for his book. Not as med/psy findings type piece. The writer clearly has dealt with several people in his life who have had addictions, and researched the war on drugs for his book. But the war on drugs isn't the, or a, cause of addiction. It may be a factor in addicts not getting help and and in exacerbating the problem, but it's not a cause. And being knowledgeable in one doesn't make one knowledgeable in the other.

The thing is, while rats may be content with gilded and cush-y cages filled with supplies of food and toys, in humans happiness and contentment is an inside job.

Nothing I do can make AXH happy if he is determined that he is miserable. Nothing I do can make AXH feel connected to others. He has to figure out where those 'switches' are and how to flip them. If he doesn't know how to be happy or content with the life he has, I can't make him be.

So even if the premise of the article is correct, there still is no way for the loved ones of addicts to make them get better. And I think the loved ones' detachment from the addiction would still apply, in that it may 1. give the loved ones the space they need in order to still be able to feel love for the addict, and 2. give the addict the space they need to find those switches, IF they are so inclined. And, for the sake of the loved ones, that love may need to be offered from a distance.

IDK. It felt over-simplified and rose-tinted. Like Florence, I would like to hear his follow-up on how/if his xBF's recovery progressed and on his own-health and well-being after tying "the addicts in [his] life closer" to him.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:24 AM
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My take on the article isnt that its saying love cures addiction. To me it says positive reinforcements, and positive support help people make positive changes in their life.

Yes she makes a comment about wanting to hug her boyfriend, but Im not taking it as her thinking love will cure him. More that she now has a better understanding love and family support can be valuable asset, and maybe she has empathy for his inner pain.

I dont find the article disturbing because I think it has more truth in it than not. I dont know enough about certain things she mentions like drug wars and policies in other countries to know if it supports her claims.

The studies in animals I think are true. Ive looked at many and they have been used to help figure out how the brain works given various stimuli. Addiction happens in the brain. But research doesnt stop with the animal studies, there is a lot more on top of it using real people, real life studies. All of this has helped create specific treatment recommendations for addiction based on whats proven to be most successful. I know for my husbands treatment all I care about is what gives him the best chance of lasting recovery from addiction.. So I wholeheartedly support research.

I know there are a lot of studies about how trauma encourages addiction. I think these are true. My husband had an early trauma, and because of it he suffered emotional hurts which made him vulnerable to using drugs. Obviously not all people who have trauma become addicted. Some have no scars, but some also end up with emotional damage expressed other ways in their lives. Each case of addiction needs to be looked at from a unique perspective because of this I think. I cant discredit the fact lots of people who have become addicted suffered trauma just because some dont.

I also think the article provides a service. Sometimes family is mislead by society into thinking its best if they remove themselves from the life of their loved one because its required to HELP their loved one get better. There is nothing to support this. Evidence actually shows family support can be very positIve and can help in the recovery process.

I would never want facts hidden from me because someone thinks I cant process the information and make my own educated choices regarding whats in my own best interest. Having evidence like this should only be one factor when a family member considers their choices. If a person is in an unhappy or abusive relationship then its their own responsibility to remove themselves from the situation.

When my husband was in rehab, his doctors told us we were a team in his recovery. This approach has been working really well for us. On top of the advice given by his addiction doctors, our family counselors who also specialize in addiction medicine, I started using Community Reinforcment approach for families. Its based on a lot of concepts loosely shared in the article. The main point being staying engaged with our loved ones is good when it can be done. Allowing a mix of positive reinforcements and natural consequences to occur (not enabling) creates the best atmosphere for positive change and helps keep relationships intact.

The article is a little cumbersome but mostly I think it relates to how positive reinforcement, positive opportunities helps people want to change, and I agree this is true.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:28 AM
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I know I've told this story before: I grew up being friends with two brothers who were just over a year apart in age. Lived in the same family. Great parents. Lots of love. Both really smart, both did really well in school and in sports.

One of them ended up being an elite athlete (and now runs his own fitness business on the East Coast). The other became a drug addict and died in a house fire before he turned 30.

It's not science, but it's the one piece of evidence I have that there has to be some kind of physiological component to addiction, when two kids from the same family, with such similar circumstances up to the age of 18, can end up going down such different paths.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueChair View Post
The article is a little cumbersome but mostly I think it relates to how positive reinforcement, positive opportunities helps people want to change, and I agree this is true.
This is a good point, bluechair. I think a lot of us reacted like we did because our A's are abusive when the are drinking/using. And if our A's were really willing to do the work and be serious about their recovery, then we would be supportive. I had all hopes of being supportive of my AXBF. But if they don't want to do the work, continue to drink/use and lie about it, and become abusive, that is different.

I personally don't think someone should be jailed for buying and using drugs. Jail just makes matters worse, because you can still get drugs in jail. A lot of countries in Europe have much more tolerant drug policies than we have here in the US. I went to Amsterdam a few times, and I noticed the people that visited from England and the US were HUGE obnoxious drunks, and did as many drugs as possible in a short period of time. the Dutch weren't like that at all. Perhaps the prohibitive nature of US and British drug policies are also part of the problem.
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:03 PM
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Junk science. The Rat Park experiment was rejected by major science publications citing that data was intentionally distorted and contained methodological flaws. Further studies failed to replicate the Rat Park results. Funding for the project was pulled.

I'm reading a book now that uses the term "evidence based" over 100 times throughout. Just because an author uses a term, or states something as fact...doesn't make it so.

It seems the recent trend in addiction recovery is to shame/blame the family for not doing enough and that they should sacrifice at any and all costs. Like this isn't what they have already done? IMO, the last thing that families who have spiritually, emotionally, and financially bankrupted themselves need to hear is "do more".
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NerdlyBeauty View Post
This is a good point, bluechair. . I went to Amsterdam a few times, and I noticed the people that visited from England and the US were HUGE obnoxious drunks, and did as many drugs as possible in a short period of time. the Dutch weren't like that at all. Perhaps the prohibitive nature of US and British drug policies are also part of the problem.
Your right about Amsterdam ! Ive been there and travelling for work I know people who would plan an extra day or pick a flight with a layover just to party there.
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:34 PM
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I agree in supporting the addict in recovery as long as they are actually working recovery. It's pretty easy to tell when they are and when they are not. If they are not willing to work, we cannot make them. Nor is it healthy to lose yourself or drive yourself to a nervous breakdown while you tolerate their using. Let's not even talk about the affects on the children.

As many of us have said, addiction is so selfish. If it's a team approach, one must look at the affects on the other members of the household. Many times the most healthy approach is to not expose yourself or your children to the addict behavior.

Just my .02
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Old 01-22-2015, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty View Post
The thing is, while rats may be content with gilded and cush-y cages filled with supplies of food and toys, in humans happiness and contentment is an inside job.

Nothing I do can make AXH happy if he is determined that he is miserable. Nothing I do can make AXH feel connected to others. He has to figure out where those 'switches' are and how to flip them. If he doesn't know how to be happy or content with the life he has, I can't make him be.

So even if the premise of the article is correct, there still is no way for the loved ones of addicts to make them get better. And I think the loved ones' detachment from the addiction would still apply, in that it may 1. give the loved ones the space they need in order to still be able to feel love for the addict, and 2. give the addict the space they need to find those switches, IF they are so inclined. And, for the sake of the loved ones, that love may need to be offered from a distance.

.

THIS! This is why humans have God or an HP.
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Old 01-22-2015, 01:58 PM
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"...addiction is an adaptation. It's not you. It's your cage."
While I fully support all of us here, I am going to play the devil's advocate, because I think it is important. First, the article did not say that our "cage" was our environment. It said that addiction is an adaption, and that that is not you; the addictive adaption is the cage, NOT the environment. So, it is not the beautiful home, family, job, or what have you that this article is referencing. Which is why it seems to us, reading this, that WE have shared wonderful "rat-parks" with our A's, and yet, it didn't seem to foster anything good. Because the environment was NOT the cage, in fact, the cage exists within the addict. Their mannerisms, the socialization, their cultural expectancies, their thoughts and feelings... all point towards addiction, and THAT is the cage. The article continues to argue that it is NOT the chemical that has caused this, rather it is a lack of "love" and "acceptance" that brought the addict to adapt these types of patterns and reach for drugs or alcohol, or even gambling... sex? shopping...? food?

Recap: The cage lives inside the addict because of how he/she has internalized their experiences within his/her environment.
Personally, I completely agree with this. What is good for the goose is not always good for the gander. We are all so unique, so when one rich spoiled brat turns out to be a drug user and an abused child grows up to be passionate instead of an alcoholic, we can see that generalizing is not going to give us a blanket answer. So, what is the anecdote then?
It is individual treatment, getting to the bottom of what caused this person to adapt in such a manner that they felt the need to self medicate or reach for a substance or behavior that seems to gratify a longing for a different life, which of course, does nothing but to cover it up and often becomes a downward spiral of self perpetuating prophecies... kinda like us codies, eh? Well, I can see that at least.



"....human beings have a deep need to bond and form connections. It's how we get our satisfaction. If we can't connect with each other, we will connect with anything we can find..." THIS. This I can completely agree with. I carry education as a preschool teacher and have a BA in child and family development, so my brain's data base was going crazy as I read this. I thought of how when we are infants, we go through stages of development and one of the most crucial is attachment. Basically, there is secure attachment, where the infant feels that he/she can come to rely on his/her main caregiver, and then there is insecure attachment, where you can guess, that the infant found he/she could not rely on the main caretaker. Several factors come into play, such as changing of wet diapers, feeding when hungry, the amount of time the baby gets to bond with caregivers, breast feeding, having a routine, being able to rely on having the SAME caregivers everyday (so moving or changing child care often plays a huge roll). IF THIS STAGE IS NOT SECURE, it scaffolds into the next stage of development and hinders the growth of the next stage. And so on and so on...
Another thought this brought to mind is how our American culture is individualistic, whereas other cultures are collectivist societies. The major difference is that here in America we promote Individualism, where a collectivist society, such as Portugal, promote the group, or the community, or the family. In those types of societies, it is important to put one's family above yourself. There is no room for selfishness, and likewise, when an individual within a group needs help, it is the responsibility to help that individual, collectively. Here in America, we expect each person to carry their own weight and even blame individuals and shame each other for not being able to do things on their own. We stop nursing at 1 or 2 years of age, when in other cultures it is completely normal to nurse up to 5 years old. We encourage personal achievement and competition. We look to each other to see what the Joneses are doing because we compare others' accomplishments and lifestyles to our own successes and abilities... And we top that off with a Hollywood mentality that says more is better, the bigger the better, plastic boobs, beer, stay thin and do anything to be thin, win or else you are a loser, more money will make you happy.... and we encourage all of this through our relentless freedom of press fueled media that has every false image imaginable. Not to mention the big pharma and the internet and other "technologies" that keep us lacking in real human contact, but keep us more cut off from each other than ever... Our over-worked, under-paid, no family time lives where we are all running after the ever-elusive golden carrot....

Yeah... I can totally see why this article makes complete sense. We DO need a total overhaul in how we treat addicts, among other things.... And the point is not that you or I can "save" these people... Because as individuals, we cannot GIVE enough to do anything, because we have limits and we are not God and it will mostly just bring us into their holes... And for those that have entire family units and groups of friends trying to pry these people out of their darkness, I don't even think that is the real answer. Because unless someone wants help, they won't even hear our cry to want to help, because that person is lost in their delusions of separateness. But the article makes a great point that it isn't so much the chemical in the brain that is causing the issue, but rather, it is a set of thought patterns that brought this person to addiction in the first place, and now the substance is exacerbating the issue.

Honestly, I can see how the approach of love and community will help millions. I believe it. I don't believe I can do it on my own, and I am okay knowing that I can only help if my xabf is willing to get help. And instead of being angry with this article, I am sort of relieved at knowing that my need and want to help is NOT bad. It is human nature to reach out to one another... I feel good about that. You just can't help someone who doesn't want help, and THAT is what needs to be reconciled in our minds. That their empty promises are not action, and it is okay to take care of yourself or you won't be any good to anyone anyway.

How do you help an addict? I guess it depends on what the hell is going on underneath their motivation to think and act the way they do... And what it will take to break that negative thought pattern will be highly individualized.
I know that my other ex, who was a meth addict, finally got clean, but he is still an angry abusive jerk... because he has yet to deal with his issues that take over his mind... And, I know that as long as I don't take care of my own issues in my mind, I will continue to find myself in these types of relationships...

Ugh, sorry for the very long response, but I could go on and on about this... I found too many holes in the argument against this article. I am all for it.



gambling addicts...
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:06 PM
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I have a feeling I'd be better off just not reading it

That's my opinion
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:08 PM
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HMA, great, thoughtful response. Thank you.

To be clear, my issue is with how this article will, can, and has triggered some loved ones of addicts into feeling tremendous guilt for imagined failures. I saw this shared on no less than five feeds last night, with messages tacked on in the vein of "I guess I should have done more for the addicts in my life, perhaps they'd be alive today." My fingers were practically bleeding from typing and re-typing, "Please don't do this to yourself."

On the flip side I also saw it posted with the remark "Drug addicts are selfish: Wrong," which triggered me terribly as well since, in the same way that SOME people are selfish, SOME drug addicts ARE selfish and shouldn't be given a pass based on the non-science of this HuffPo piece.
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:23 PM
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I'm usually the voice of dissent, so here goes-

Personally, I didn't find any flaws or inaccuracies in the article. It seemed thoroughly researched and all the studies and experiments it cites are scientific and unbiased.

I think what most people in this thread have a problem with are the implications. "We need to love addicts in order for them to get sober". That seems to be the conclusion of the article and what everyone is up in arms about. For me, I didn't find anything offensive about this conclusion. But this is also because I didn't leave my ex because of his addiction.

I did love my ex, so did his family. Did this help him get sober? Possibly. There is no way to know because the alternative never happened.

It has been proven that animals that live in confined spaces develop obsessions or OCD. But I'm not sure if OCD is linked to alcohol addiction. It may be linked to other types of behavior issues like gambling or compulsive shopping, but it doesn't explain alcohol addiction as I have witnessed it.

Whatever the connection may be, I think it is important to stay open to different ideas and theories. It may be that in the future "codependence" becomes a term that is disproven. We all have to be open to that possiblity. After all, in Freud's time "female hysteria" was a common diagnosis. Now we know it was a made up disease based on the oppression of women.
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty View Post
HMA, great, thoughtful response. Thank you.

To be clear, my issue is with how this article will, can, and has triggered some loved ones of addicts into feeling tremendous guilt for imagined failures. I saw this shared on no less than five feeds last night, with messages tacked on in the vein of "I guess I should have done more for the addicts in my life, perhaps they'd be alive today." My fingers were practically bleeding from typing and re-typing, "Please don't do this to yourself."

On the flip side I also saw it posted with the remark "Drug addicts are selfish: Wrong," which triggered me terribly as well since, in the same way that SOME people are selfish, SOME drug addicts ARE selfish and shouldn't be given a pass based on the non-science of this HuffPo piece.
Awe... thanx SparkleKitty! I totally agree with you that we should not be carrying such heavy guilt with what we did or did not do. Love is a choice, and it doesn't exist between two people unless both people share it. The relationships we hold and everything we do in the those relationships go both ways. My actions affect myself and my partner, and vice versa. When the other side is not being honored, we can honor it ourselves all we want, but it will be to no avail unless our partner also chooses it. It is the same for addiction. There is no fault in trying to help, but don't lose yourself and know your limits and boundaries... NOT knowing these are part of what makes us codies. And there is no fault in leaving the situation if it is volatile because self preservation is necessary for survival, let alone the ability to help. Self love... Love of the higher power... being able to let those into your life, imo, is the real challenge of these addictions and of our codependencies. Love is great, if you let it in ;-) And no amount of here, take this and that will change anyone if they cannot even see what is being offered and thus, unable to accept it.
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Old 01-22-2015, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
Junk science. The Rat Park experiment was rejected by major science publications citing that data was intentionally distorted and contained methodological flaws. Further studies failed to replicate the Rat Park results. Funding for the project was pulled.

I'm reading a book now that uses the term "evidence based" over 100 times throughout. Just because an author uses a term, or states something as fact...doesn't make it so.

It seems the recent trend in addiction recovery is to shame/blame the family for not doing enough and that they should sacrifice at any and all costs. Like this isn't what they have already done? IMO, the last thing that families who have spiritually, emotionally, and financially bankrupted themselves need to hear is "do more".
Quote on "Rat Park" on Wikipedia:

"Recent research has shown that an enriched environment may decrease morphine addiction in mice.[14][15] Enriched environments also decrease deficits in animal models of Parkinson's disease,[16] Huntington's disease,[17] and Alzheimer's disease.[18] In 2013, a similar study found socially isolating adolescent rats caused high rates of alcohol and amphetamine addiction in adulthood and it took longer for the isolated rats to overcome the addiction.[19]"

Cynical -

I think you have to be careful to separate emotion from reason when discussing scientific studies. These studies are helping us to understand more about addiction and the role that environment plays. They are not seeking to make a moral judgment on people who leave addicts or families who are fed up with the alcoholic in their life.

If we bring emotion into it and take everything that is stated personally, we risk becoming closed off to information that could help people.

I am an INFJ, which means that I often judge by how I "feel" about something. It is a strong characteristic of my personality. But even I can distance myself emotionally from a topic and rationalize. Not everything is a personal attack.
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Old 01-22-2015, 03:29 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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I get frustrated at this misinformation being spread around. Especially for those who are seeking help for freedom from their A's...and this is the crap they run into. I originally posted, take what you want and leave the rest...but I'll admit that I skimmed it and really read the last 4 paragraphs.

If I would have read this BEFORE I found SR, I probably wouldn't have HUNTED for SR. I just would have went back to being a doormat......UGH!!!
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