Was what I did wrong? I'm in dire need of outside perspective. Very scary experience.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Florence 
Welp, humility helps. You don't have to figure it all out at once, but I do suggest backing off the defensiveness and trying to listen and integrate some of what people are saying to you. .
I do appreciate your reply and I am taking it in and thinking about it.
However, people are ripping me apart for something that I 1) readily admitted to, which means that I am not trying to downplay what I did. and 2) I already said that I know it was wrong and I AM in therapy for all of my issues. I am a work in progress.
So no, I'm not going to back down when I don't agree with what someone is saying. That whole "take what you want and leave the rest" can also apply to message boards, no?
I do not think that anyone knows me or my boyfriend based on one post that I made, and so if I don't think that I'm being judged fairly or accurately, I'm going to speak up. That doesn't mean that I'm blowing people off or not truly listening, but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with everything.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
OurTown, you do realize that every single person you are talking to has been in your shoes?
We have done things like you did, we loved the alcoholic with our heart and soul, we did everything we could to make them see what they were doing was destroying them and us, we controlled, we hid money and keys, we went above and beyond sacrificing our health and mental sanity.
None of it worked. None. If there was an answer to this we would share it with anyone and everyone. But you notice, there isn't a sticky that says "do this to cure your alcoholic"
You can't win, not now, not ever. You can't make him want to change. He will quit when he is ready and not one second before.
If I was in your place and I knew what I know now I would run away, far and fast. But I have a whole boatload of experience that you haven't had, yet.
Don't worry though, the longer the situation stay the same you'll get to have them as well. Visits to the ER where you think they are dieing, rehabs, detoxes, relapses, on and on for years and years.
It reached a point for me that I thought the only way my suffering would end would be to die. That was my bottom. I left my wife, started al-anon, worked a program and managed to climb my way out of hell, and that is exactly what it was.
When I read your posts I see me almost 40 years ago, I can see where this path is headed and I would like to help you avoid the pain that I went through.
There is a lot of wisdom and experience here if you want to take advantage of it.
Your friend,
We have done things like you did, we loved the alcoholic with our heart and soul, we did everything we could to make them see what they were doing was destroying them and us, we controlled, we hid money and keys, we went above and beyond sacrificing our health and mental sanity.
None of it worked. None. If there was an answer to this we would share it with anyone and everyone. But you notice, there isn't a sticky that says "do this to cure your alcoholic"
You can't win, not now, not ever. You can't make him want to change. He will quit when he is ready and not one second before.
If I was in your place and I knew what I know now I would run away, far and fast. But I have a whole boatload of experience that you haven't had, yet.
Don't worry though, the longer the situation stay the same you'll get to have them as well. Visits to the ER where you think they are dieing, rehabs, detoxes, relapses, on and on for years and years.
It reached a point for me that I thought the only way my suffering would end would be to die. That was my bottom. I left my wife, started al-anon, worked a program and managed to climb my way out of hell, and that is exactly what it was.
When I read your posts I see me almost 40 years ago, I can see where this path is headed and I would like to help you avoid the pain that I went through.
There is a lot of wisdom and experience here if you want to take advantage of it.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
If you choose to give your boyfriend money, you give up the control over what the money is spent on. You just do. You have in effect already spent it by giving it to him. Once you do, he is going to do what he will with it whatever you feel about it. The only way to control what your money is spent on is to be the only one spending it.
He really and truly knows how you feel about being the only breadwinner, but he has no reason to change. As with any relationship, healthy or toxic or whatever in between, the only way it survives is if BOTH partners can truly accept the other EXACTLY as they are right now. Can you? If it never gets better, is that enough for you?
Like your therapist, I won't tell you to break up with him. I will, however, pass on what MY therapist said to me when I was in a relationship with an active addict: "What you're doing is keeping yourself from being available when someone healthier comes along."
I commend your honesty on these boards and hope you know that many, if not most, if not all of us, were or are in a similar place once, and we come back to these boards to share our experience, our strength and our hope to those who are struggling. We are human and can be easily triggered when we are reminded of the pain we've suffered personally. I always say, Take what you want, and leave the rest.
He really and truly knows how you feel about being the only breadwinner, but he has no reason to change. As with any relationship, healthy or toxic or whatever in between, the only way it survives is if BOTH partners can truly accept the other EXACTLY as they are right now. Can you? If it never gets better, is that enough for you?
Like your therapist, I won't tell you to break up with him. I will, however, pass on what MY therapist said to me when I was in a relationship with an active addict: "What you're doing is keeping yourself from being available when someone healthier comes along."
I commend your honesty on these boards and hope you know that many, if not most, if not all of us, were or are in a similar place once, and we come back to these boards to share our experience, our strength and our hope to those who are struggling. We are human and can be easily triggered when we are reminded of the pain we've suffered personally. I always say, Take what you want, and leave the rest.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
o no, I'm not going to back down when I don't agree with what someone is saying. That whole "take what you want and leave the rest" can also apply to message boards, no?
I do not think that anyone knows me or my boyfriend based on one post that I made, and so if I don't think that I'm being judged fairly or accurately, I'm going to speak up. That doesn't mean that I'm blowing people off or not truly listening, but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with everything.
I do not think that anyone knows me or my boyfriend based on one post that I made, and so if I don't think that I'm being judged fairly or accurately, I'm going to speak up. That doesn't mean that I'm blowing people off or not truly listening, but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with everything.
Respectfully, I also want to point out that the majority of your replies on this board where you asked for our help and experience have been cherry-picking the one sentence you disagreed with, with paragraphs explaining why that person is wrong. I know for myself that "Take what you want and LEAVE THE REST" was an AA lesson that has proven in my life to be quite contemporary. You don't have to agree with someone or something 100% for it to be useful for you.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 837
Facing my fears was how I left for my good and his as well. I was filled with fears, being alone, he'll die if I leave him, he'll be on the streets and on and on. You know what? He's in the end stages of alcoholism but he's probably sober more since we divorced than when we were married. Why you ask? I think it's because I'm not there to enable him. Do I have regrets that maybe if I had left a long long time ago maybe he would have hit his bottom and maybe sought recovery? I will never know.
So, do you love this person? Sometimes facing our fears can give us a lot of answers.
So, do you love this person? Sometimes facing our fears can give us a lot of answers.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 609
I wrote on the fly earlier and am doing it again - forgive speediness!
My post was supposed to say, by sharing my experience, that
you really need to focus on you. Finding out what makes you happy,
content, peaceful.
I have speed read all the posts here and I think you may be "not seeing
the forest for the trees".
By spending the time defending your posts, you're missing what many people
are suggesting.
Cheers!
My post was supposed to say, by sharing my experience, that
you really need to focus on you. Finding out what makes you happy,
content, peaceful.
I have speed read all the posts here and I think you may be "not seeing
the forest for the trees".
By spending the time defending your posts, you're missing what many people
are suggesting.
Cheers!
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
Ok, I went back and read the beginning post, and saw this: "He was given cash for his birthday which I promptly took and put in my purse. He came in demanding the money. I told him to go away,"
Ok, that's not your money. But you're trying to control him, and taking away what is rightfully his. He is not a 3 year old, and you (hopefully) are not satisfied with being in a relationship where you treat your partner like a 3 year old, controlling them, and recognize the insanity of doing so.
Like Mike said, everybody understands and has been there, different stories and facts, same insanity.
I would also go over Florence's posts because she has been there with a husband that refused to work.
Yes we are coming down hard on you after reading about the physical abuse. It triggers just about everybody. Now that we know you are both physically abusive, how about this--a first step to sanity--no more hitting, or biting, ok?
Just one small step to sanity. Then you can work on the rest. But one small step is progress, see? So lay down the law within yourself and say no more of that, and then have a talk with him, and say no more of that from either of us--adult only mature behaviors during disagreements. Agree to it between the two of you. Hugs between you two on that one, and move on to the next issue, hoping that issue permanently resolved and that it sunk in for both of you. If one or both of you continues to physically abuse, then you realize this is a deep issue that needs to be explored with a therapist and that the two of you should not live together as long as either is willing to use abuse to try to control.
You agree to that, and then we can put the subject to rest here, too.
You're smart, you're articulate, you have a strong will. But none of those things are going to overpower another adult's desire to drink, or, their refusal to work. You can overpower another adult's will temporarily, but it always fails in the long run.
How can you lead him gently to agree to go get a job? I don't know. I think calmly talking about it and how the two of you need both to contribute to your household is the best approach. Getting him to act on that, or see it from that view is more difficult. If gently doesn't work, then persistence, and finally demand that he work or move out.
It really does come to ultimatums or simply deciding to move on yourself and break up.
The alcohol is a separate issue. Only he can decide he will stop drinking. But if he gets a job it certainly may help him to decide to drink less. Whether he is alcoholic or not is undetermined at this point, at least for me.
There's many issues here. Solve them one at a time, and if you can't agree, then you do realize that the only option left is to end the relationship as it now is and separate.
The main thing is that you start getting your own behavior back to sanity, and see if he will agree to do the same, one sane agreement at a time.
Ok, that's not your money. But you're trying to control him, and taking away what is rightfully his. He is not a 3 year old, and you (hopefully) are not satisfied with being in a relationship where you treat your partner like a 3 year old, controlling them, and recognize the insanity of doing so.
Like Mike said, everybody understands and has been there, different stories and facts, same insanity.
I would also go over Florence's posts because she has been there with a husband that refused to work.
Yes we are coming down hard on you after reading about the physical abuse. It triggers just about everybody. Now that we know you are both physically abusive, how about this--a first step to sanity--no more hitting, or biting, ok?
Just one small step to sanity. Then you can work on the rest. But one small step is progress, see? So lay down the law within yourself and say no more of that, and then have a talk with him, and say no more of that from either of us--adult only mature behaviors during disagreements. Agree to it between the two of you. Hugs between you two on that one, and move on to the next issue, hoping that issue permanently resolved and that it sunk in for both of you. If one or both of you continues to physically abuse, then you realize this is a deep issue that needs to be explored with a therapist and that the two of you should not live together as long as either is willing to use abuse to try to control.
You agree to that, and then we can put the subject to rest here, too.
You're smart, you're articulate, you have a strong will. But none of those things are going to overpower another adult's desire to drink, or, their refusal to work. You can overpower another adult's will temporarily, but it always fails in the long run.
How can you lead him gently to agree to go get a job? I don't know. I think calmly talking about it and how the two of you need both to contribute to your household is the best approach. Getting him to act on that, or see it from that view is more difficult. If gently doesn't work, then persistence, and finally demand that he work or move out.
It really does come to ultimatums or simply deciding to move on yourself and break up.
The alcohol is a separate issue. Only he can decide he will stop drinking. But if he gets a job it certainly may help him to decide to drink less. Whether he is alcoholic or not is undetermined at this point, at least for me.
There's many issues here. Solve them one at a time, and if you can't agree, then you do realize that the only option left is to end the relationship as it now is and separate.
The main thing is that you start getting your own behavior back to sanity, and see if he will agree to do the same, one sane agreement at a time.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 458
I changed my mind.
It is fun to plan a wedding. I read they have wedding insurance- for $160. Since you are dedicated and love eachother- your one option is to get married- and build a life together even if it is not perfect.
One thing I would like you to understand- my opinion and $5 will get you a coffee. At the end of the day- I do not have to live with the results of your choices.
Your posts indicate- you do not feel you are wasting your time with this guy.
I want you to do some heavy reading- and I insist that you do- I expect you to achieve this by June 1. Of that reading- pick 3 or more sticky notes- and a self help book from your shelf- or library or grab it online.
Your life is complicated and you need more the a batch of sound bite posts.
I feel like you are in a chess game- in search of "check mate".
Hugs- we love you- keep me posted.
It is fun to plan a wedding. I read they have wedding insurance- for $160. Since you are dedicated and love eachother- your one option is to get married- and build a life together even if it is not perfect.
One thing I would like you to understand- my opinion and $5 will get you a coffee. At the end of the day- I do not have to live with the results of your choices.
Your posts indicate- you do not feel you are wasting your time with this guy.
I want you to do some heavy reading- and I insist that you do- I expect you to achieve this by June 1. Of that reading- pick 3 or more sticky notes- and a self help book from your shelf- or library or grab it online.
Your life is complicated and you need more the a batch of sound bite posts.
I feel like you are in a chess game- in search of "check mate".
Hugs- we love you- keep me posted.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Originally Posted by Florence
The best piece of advice I got here when I first started posting was ***don't do anything for him that an otherwise healthy grown man is capable of doing for himself.***
He wants to drink? More power to him. He can pay for it with the money he earns at his job that he arrives at in his car or by the bus he caught or on his own two feet. He's depressed? He should see a real doctor then and get medicated by someone who is capable of helping him. His life fell apart from his depression and alcoholism? That's too bad, but what is he doing about it to help himself? These are rhetorical questions, I don't need or want answers to them. You can lead this horse to water over and over and over again, but this horse ain't thirsty.
Are you, yourself thirsty? This well is dry. Gotta find water somewhere else.
The great part is that it's your life, and you get to choose. Thanks for posting, keep reading.
He wants to drink? More power to him. He can pay for it with the money he earns at his job that he arrives at in his car or by the bus he caught or on his own two feet. He's depressed? He should see a real doctor then and get medicated by someone who is capable of helping him. His life fell apart from his depression and alcoholism? That's too bad, but what is he doing about it to help himself? These are rhetorical questions, I don't need or want answers to them. You can lead this horse to water over and over and over again, but this horse ain't thirsty.
Are you, yourself thirsty? This well is dry. Gotta find water somewhere else.
The great part is that it's your life, and you get to choose. Thanks for posting, keep reading.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I "allow" because what am I going to do? I love him and I don't want to kick someone while he is down. I love how everyone has so much advice when it's not happening to them, you make it sound like it's so easy. On paper, sure, it's easy. When there are absolutely no emotions involved. But life doesn't really work that way, does it? I want to help him, I hate seeing him so depressed. I don't want to leave him just because it's difficult. But it is insanely difficult and I'm having trouble coping.
what you are going thru right now each person here has experienced to some degree, at some level. maybe not the whole story, but enough chapters to be conisdered the same book.
that you WANT to help him is commendable, but getting to the point of accepting the fact that you CANNOT help him would help you get that sanity back. in fact, take a look at the situation objectively and you might just see that your HELP is making things WORSE. cuz he ain't doing so hot right now. and neither are you. he's a big boy, and perfectly capable of getting a damn job and acting like a grown up - but he chooses NOT to. and you can't MAKE him WANT to.
in fact you can't MAKE him do one single thing. not ONE. and for all your "efforts" it's all spiraling out of control and getting crazier and crazier. hopefully at some point you'll decide to help yourself FIRST. and give him the dignity to live his own life exactly as he deems fit without you footing the bill. taking his birthday money is something we do with FIVE YEAR OLDS>
what you are going thru right now each person here has experienced to some degree, at some level. maybe not the whole story, but enough chapters to be conisdered the same book.
that you WANT to help him is commendable, but getting to the point of accepting the fact that you CANNOT help him would help you get that sanity back. in fact, take a look at the situation objectively and you might just see that your HELP is making things WORSE. cuz he ain't doing so hot right now. and neither are you. he's a big boy, and perfectly capable of getting a damn job and acting like a grown up - but he chooses NOT to. and you can't MAKE him WANT to.
in fact you can't MAKE him do one single thing. not ONE. and for all your "efforts" it's all spiraling out of control and getting crazier and crazier. hopefully at some point you'll decide to help yourself FIRST. and give him the dignity to live his own life exactly as he deems fit without you footing the bill. taking his birthday money is something we do with FIVE YEAR OLDS>
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester, ny
Posts: 405
Same as my story. Only I'm 56.
I KNOW that feeling- -"I love him so so much".
That's *our* addiction. Sometimes I think it must be easier to get clean from crack than it is to break the love-addiction.
The addiction is we think that craving for the person we've bonded to is Love, and we hold on desperately. Even when part of us knows it's toxic.
That craving to bond, and fantasize that you have love is so horribly powerful...and the pain of breaking it is terrifying. Not only terrifying, but lasts a damn long time.
Of course you want to hold on! The alternative--admitting you're not going to have your way--Is really really really really really really really painful.
I always did the same...hang on and deny...I keep hanging on in my head long after my big mistakes are done, too! I am working on building up a Self. It's really frickin hard.
A damaging upbringing primes us for this mess. It's familiar....it's what we imprinted on.
Keep reading....keep thinking...keep working on your courage...keep reaching out. He's not going to have a "miracle". You have to do this on your own. :/
I KNOW that feeling- -"I love him so so much".
That's *our* addiction. Sometimes I think it must be easier to get clean from crack than it is to break the love-addiction.
The addiction is we think that craving for the person we've bonded to is Love, and we hold on desperately. Even when part of us knows it's toxic.
That craving to bond, and fantasize that you have love is so horribly powerful...and the pain of breaking it is terrifying. Not only terrifying, but lasts a damn long time.
Of course you want to hold on! The alternative--admitting you're not going to have your way--Is really really really really really really really painful.
I always did the same...hang on and deny...I keep hanging on in my head long after my big mistakes are done, too! I am working on building up a Self. It's really frickin hard.
A damaging upbringing primes us for this mess. It's familiar....it's what we imprinted on.
Keep reading....keep thinking...keep working on your courage...keep reaching out. He's not going to have a "miracle". You have to do this on your own. :/
Originally Posted by CupofJoe
Hey there,
I just wanted to share a little of my story. I spent a lot of time in toxic relationships with active alcoholics/addicts and I'm also a (recovered) alcoholic. I loved my boyfriends and stayed with them as long as I could. I was also often the provider in the relationship. Lots of fighting and drama.
I'm in my early 40's now and after years of bad relationships and drama, I'm finding I have to learn from scratch what a good relationship is. The more time I spent in bad relationships, the more used to them I got, and the harder it has become to mentally recover from them and learn--and feel--what healthy relationships are.
You sound so much like me when I was in my 20's and I want to reach out to you and hug you and tell you to run. Start learning now how to be healthy. Be single and learn how to love yourself and treat yourself right. (Forgive me if I got your age wrong.) It gets harder (but not impossible) the older you get.
With no kids, there's no reason to subject yourself to a relationship that seems to be making you miserable. Of course it's not an easy situation and heartbreak doesn't care if it's a good or bad relationship. I had my life threatened indirectly by a man I loved and I still cried for a year after it ended. I get that.
But sometimes life decisions should be made on not feelings, but by knowledge of what's good for you.
It's your life, though, so do as you will. I just hope you'll listen and consider what people are saying.
Take care of yourself, ok?
I just wanted to share a little of my story. I spent a lot of time in toxic relationships with active alcoholics/addicts and I'm also a (recovered) alcoholic. I loved my boyfriends and stayed with them as long as I could. I was also often the provider in the relationship. Lots of fighting and drama.
I'm in my early 40's now and after years of bad relationships and drama, I'm finding I have to learn from scratch what a good relationship is. The more time I spent in bad relationships, the more used to them I got, and the harder it has become to mentally recover from them and learn--and feel--what healthy relationships are.
You sound so much like me when I was in my 20's and I want to reach out to you and hug you and tell you to run. Start learning now how to be healthy. Be single and learn how to love yourself and treat yourself right. (Forgive me if I got your age wrong.) It gets harder (but not impossible) the older you get.
With no kids, there's no reason to subject yourself to a relationship that seems to be making you miserable. Of course it's not an easy situation and heartbreak doesn't care if it's a good or bad relationship. I had my life threatened indirectly by a man I loved and I still cried for a year after it ended. I get that.
But sometimes life decisions should be made on not feelings, but by knowledge of what's good for you.
It's your life, though, so do as you will. I just hope you'll listen and consider what people are saying.
Take care of yourself, ok?
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I don't know if you noticed a theme here but pretty much everyone is saying.
1. He has the right to live his life the way he wants to.
2. You have no control over how he chooses to live his life.
3. The more you try to control the deeper you get sucked into the craziness.
4. The only way out is for you to let go of trying to change him and start working on changing yourself.
1. He has the right to live his life the way he wants to.
2. You have no control over how he chooses to live his life.
3. The more you try to control the deeper you get sucked into the craziness.
4. The only way out is for you to let go of trying to change him and start working on changing yourself.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Some questions you could ask yourself.
Can I live with someone who is emotionally and physically unavailable?
Can I live with someone who drinks and not have it cause me distress or affect me in any way?
Can I see him as a competent capable adult? How am I hurting myself if I can’t? What favors am I doing him if I can’t?
Can I live with someone who refuses to contribute to the household that they also live in?
Can I see where I am hurting myself and what I am becoming when I react to his drinking?
Can I live with someone who will steal from me?
Why do I accept intolerable behavior?
What am I getting out of this relationship today?
Do I deserve more?
And last but certain not least. Am I the product of an alcoholic/addict, abusive or way out codie parent? One problem many of us here face is that we were raise in dysfunction, never knowing that our normal really wasn’t normal at all.
Good luck to you. I hope you can find a way to make peace with the fact that he is an alcoholic who at this moment isn’t looking to change. While it is sad, it is just what is.
Can I live with someone who is emotionally and physically unavailable?
Can I live with someone who drinks and not have it cause me distress or affect me in any way?
Can I see him as a competent capable adult? How am I hurting myself if I can’t? What favors am I doing him if I can’t?
Can I live with someone who refuses to contribute to the household that they also live in?
Can I see where I am hurting myself and what I am becoming when I react to his drinking?
Can I live with someone who will steal from me?
Why do I accept intolerable behavior?
What am I getting out of this relationship today?
Do I deserve more?
And last but certain not least. Am I the product of an alcoholic/addict, abusive or way out codie parent? One problem many of us here face is that we were raise in dysfunction, never knowing that our normal really wasn’t normal at all.
Good luck to you. I hope you can find a way to make peace with the fact that he is an alcoholic who at this moment isn’t looking to change. While it is sad, it is just what is.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Listen -- when I first came here, I hated the advice I got. Hated it. I thought people were terribly insensitive and mean. When I asked a question and people responded, I felt like I wanted to say "I don't like that answer. Give me another one."
I think when people here get a tone that might sound harsh, it's not because they think you're an idiot -- at least not to a larger extent than anyone else is! -- it's because they've been where you are (or at least in a similar place), and we don't want you to have to follow the "normal" codependent line of thinking to its natural conclusion, like we did.
The idea of "helping by not helping" and that "helping in the traditional way is actually harmful" is completely counter-intuitive and difficult to wrap your brain around.
I didn't like the idea of Al-Anon either, but I have to tell you, I got to the point where I was like "Dude -- if you tell me to go down to the river by the next full moon and throw a quarter over my shoulder to fix this, I'll be there with a BAG FULL OF QUARTERS!!!"
I think when people here get a tone that might sound harsh, it's not because they think you're an idiot -- at least not to a larger extent than anyone else is! -- it's because they've been where you are (or at least in a similar place), and we don't want you to have to follow the "normal" codependent line of thinking to its natural conclusion, like we did.
The idea of "helping by not helping" and that "helping in the traditional way is actually harmful" is completely counter-intuitive and difficult to wrap your brain around.
I didn't like the idea of Al-Anon either, but I have to tell you, I got to the point where I was like "Dude -- if you tell me to go down to the river by the next full moon and throw a quarter over my shoulder to fix this, I'll be there with a BAG FULL OF QUARTERS!!!"
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
wow. ive read just about every post in this thread. I hear a LOt of my past coming up. one being rationalization for keeping myself in an abusive relationship with my sons mother( she was very mentally, emotionally, and physically abusive). I rationalized a whole crapload why I should stay in the relationship, which was ended in our mid 20's.
then as the disease of alcoholism progressed more in me, my choices for relationships were to get with women that were codies and enablers( I didn't see that until I got sober).
one thing I can say for all of them- they made a great move by throwing me out of their lives. I wasn't gonna do anything but take them down with me and they were allowing it to happen until they threw me out. throwing me out of their lives was the best move for themselves.
and it was my then fiancé throwing me out that got it from my head to my heart that alcohol was the common denominator in all my problems and I wanted to do something about it.
so that was somewhat of a paradox- throwing me out was (imo) the best move she ever made for herself, but also got me to the point to get help...for me.
I have since learned that back then I had absolutely no clue what love was.
then as the disease of alcoholism progressed more in me, my choices for relationships were to get with women that were codies and enablers( I didn't see that until I got sober).
one thing I can say for all of them- they made a great move by throwing me out of their lives. I wasn't gonna do anything but take them down with me and they were allowing it to happen until they threw me out. throwing me out of their lives was the best move for themselves.
and it was my then fiancé throwing me out that got it from my head to my heart that alcohol was the common denominator in all my problems and I wanted to do something about it.
so that was somewhat of a paradox- throwing me out was (imo) the best move she ever made for herself, but also got me to the point to get help...for me.
I have since learned that back then I had absolutely no clue what love was.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Ourtown, maybe this would be useful: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-they-do.html
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
No everyone here is not crazy, and not everyone is currently with an A. Some people are affected by one but not living with one, some have been married or in a committed relationship and have left that. Some are recovering A's, and some are like me who are not alcoholic and living with a Recovering Alcoholic.
I think we all understand the insanity of your life. I have been there when my husband relapsed.
You're in over your head with your bf. Big time. This animal is much bigger than you. And now this has progressed to the point where you are physically hitting him. You will again. Its not that you are a bad person my dear, its that the disease progresses. We here all know that. This bubble that you have created of control has cracks in it. It is only a matter of time before the bubble bursts. I said it before, Mike said it - this is headed for trouble, bad trouble.
Here is my opinion and you can take what you want and leave the rest. I strongly suspect underlying the alcoholism is a mental illness beyond depression and anxiety. While I see honesty about yourself I think you have painted a rosier picture (though a poor one) of BF. I think you are covering for him as it was well into this thread before you mentioned that he has also hit you. I am sorry you have endured that.
You are really in between a rock, no? With a job he has money which means drunken blackouts, possibly burning down the house, driving drunk, injuries….and you know what else. Without one you are barely making it.
I do have compassion for you. I think your BF needs a psychiatric evaluation (not a general practitioner or therapist). I don't think your bf could get a job much less hold one with the issues he has. Eventually he will find a way around the money issues to drink. I'm sorry to have to tell you that - but he will.
So that's how I see it. You aren't ready to leave him. Ok, got that. So some suggestions for the time being. Don't be around him drinking. Period. Don't go with him to parties where you know he will. If he comes home drunk leave. The idea here is to keep YOU from getting yourself in a position that you were in last night.
I don't want you to go to jail, I don't want you to get hurt. Not being around him when drinking is one way to avoid that (I hope).
I also suggest you read the book CoDependent No More by Melanie Beatie.
I think we all understand the insanity of your life. I have been there when my husband relapsed.
You're in over your head with your bf. Big time. This animal is much bigger than you. And now this has progressed to the point where you are physically hitting him. You will again. Its not that you are a bad person my dear, its that the disease progresses. We here all know that. This bubble that you have created of control has cracks in it. It is only a matter of time before the bubble bursts. I said it before, Mike said it - this is headed for trouble, bad trouble.
Here is my opinion and you can take what you want and leave the rest. I strongly suspect underlying the alcoholism is a mental illness beyond depression and anxiety. While I see honesty about yourself I think you have painted a rosier picture (though a poor one) of BF. I think you are covering for him as it was well into this thread before you mentioned that he has also hit you. I am sorry you have endured that.
You are really in between a rock, no? With a job he has money which means drunken blackouts, possibly burning down the house, driving drunk, injuries….and you know what else. Without one you are barely making it.
I do have compassion for you. I think your BF needs a psychiatric evaluation (not a general practitioner or therapist). I don't think your bf could get a job much less hold one with the issues he has. Eventually he will find a way around the money issues to drink. I'm sorry to have to tell you that - but he will.
So that's how I see it. You aren't ready to leave him. Ok, got that. So some suggestions for the time being. Don't be around him drinking. Period. Don't go with him to parties where you know he will. If he comes home drunk leave. The idea here is to keep YOU from getting yourself in a position that you were in last night.
I don't want you to go to jail, I don't want you to get hurt. Not being around him when drinking is one way to avoid that (I hope).
I also suggest you read the book CoDependent No More by Melanie Beatie.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
I feel sorry for both of you. He's an A and has to live with himself, but then he also has to live with you. Yes, I feel sorry for him for that. As someone mentioned earlier, you are abusing him. Abuse can be so much more than hitting someone. You are financially abusing him in addition to verbal, emotional, and physical abuse. You won't even give him the dignity of having what is rightfully his and making his own poor decisions. As an adult, he has a right to that. You don't have the right to stop him.
And then you live with an active A and are more than willing to go the long haul in this incredibly effed up, toxic relationship. So I feel sorry for you, too. You both have issues that are so much bigger than either of you can fix together. Until you wake up and realize just how bad you're making this (or until he leaves, which is not likely), it's just going to get worse. Best of luck to ya.
And then you live with an active A and are more than willing to go the long haul in this incredibly effed up, toxic relationship. So I feel sorry for you, too. You both have issues that are so much bigger than either of you can fix together. Until you wake up and realize just how bad you're making this (or until he leaves, which is not likely), it's just going to get worse. Best of luck to ya.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 250
Hi Ourtown,
Sorry you're both going through this and I'm glad you are getting help for your issues. Someone once told me that to be in a healthy relationship both people have to be healthy individuals. If our own internal problems or issues are not solved/healed, how can we expect to take on somebody else's issues? You're trying to work on your own issues AND work on his. It's like trying to be in two places at the same time. Maybe it's better to work on our own issues first and THEN work on building a relationship.
You've mentioned that you are not planning on leaving this relationship and that is your choice. Would you consider having him move out temporarily so that you can have some peace in your home? Sometimes when you're right in the middle of the storm, it's difficult to have a clear perspective on things. Having some time apart may give both of you some much needed breathing space and remove some of the anxiety and chaos in your lives. You might think that not living together will result in him drinking some more. The truth is, he'll drink regardless of what you say or do (as he's already shown).
One other thing to consider, are you in love with who he is now or with the person you want him to be? Sometimes we fall into the trap of loving someone for their potential instead of who they really are. Sometimes we stay for the few moments when things seem ok, even though those moments can be few and far between. You've been with him long enough to know who he really is and what he brings to the relationship.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you both the best of luck in the future.
Hugs
Sorry you're both going through this and I'm glad you are getting help for your issues. Someone once told me that to be in a healthy relationship both people have to be healthy individuals. If our own internal problems or issues are not solved/healed, how can we expect to take on somebody else's issues? You're trying to work on your own issues AND work on his. It's like trying to be in two places at the same time. Maybe it's better to work on our own issues first and THEN work on building a relationship.
You've mentioned that you are not planning on leaving this relationship and that is your choice. Would you consider having him move out temporarily so that you can have some peace in your home? Sometimes when you're right in the middle of the storm, it's difficult to have a clear perspective on things. Having some time apart may give both of you some much needed breathing space and remove some of the anxiety and chaos in your lives. You might think that not living together will result in him drinking some more. The truth is, he'll drink regardless of what you say or do (as he's already shown).
One other thing to consider, are you in love with who he is now or with the person you want him to be? Sometimes we fall into the trap of loving someone for their potential instead of who they really are. Sometimes we stay for the few moments when things seem ok, even though those moments can be few and far between. You've been with him long enough to know who he really is and what he brings to the relationship.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you both the best of luck in the future.
Hugs
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
I am unsure whether to share this but in the interest of hoping that perhaps my experience might help, I will.
My xAH hit me. Often. I didn't hit him back. Until one day I shoved him and kicked him hard to get him off me (while I was on the ground in front of my kids having been beat up by him again for asking him to close the porch door in a "tone" that was rude).
And he hit me even more and I called the police. First time I ever had.
And you know who got arrested? Me. Not him. He, like all abusers got calm and mellow and I was in hysertics and despite my kids being witnesses and my shock at it all I was the one arrested.
And I didn't leave him right then...
The story got a LOT worse and went on a lot longer.
But my point is this.
Regardless of who is the primary aggressor -- you or your A boyfriend, living with alcoholism makes people crazy. I was crazy. I let someone hurt me and let my kids witness it and didn't do a thing about it. That is crazy. I minimized his abuse when the cops came and got arrested for it and continued to minimize it to my own detriment. That is crazy.
I didn't love him-- I loved the idea of him. I idea of what I hoped he and I would have been and I had invested a LOT of time in the marriage and didn't want to throw that away in the slim chance he might sober up.
And I was abused as a kid and raised to believe I was not a good person if I "kicked someone when they are down" aka standing up for yourself and not tolerating BS behavior.
Minus the hitting part, I see a lot of my old self in your defense of your boyfriend and your desire to try and control things to make them work as you would like and deserve them to.
But maybe my story is a cautionary tale of what can happen if this goes on too long.
You could easily be arrested-- even now-- if your boyfriend goes to the police.... Do you want that?
My xAH hit me. Often. I didn't hit him back. Until one day I shoved him and kicked him hard to get him off me (while I was on the ground in front of my kids having been beat up by him again for asking him to close the porch door in a "tone" that was rude).
And he hit me even more and I called the police. First time I ever had.
And you know who got arrested? Me. Not him. He, like all abusers got calm and mellow and I was in hysertics and despite my kids being witnesses and my shock at it all I was the one arrested.
And I didn't leave him right then...
The story got a LOT worse and went on a lot longer.
But my point is this.
Regardless of who is the primary aggressor -- you or your A boyfriend, living with alcoholism makes people crazy. I was crazy. I let someone hurt me and let my kids witness it and didn't do a thing about it. That is crazy. I minimized his abuse when the cops came and got arrested for it and continued to minimize it to my own detriment. That is crazy.
I didn't love him-- I loved the idea of him. I idea of what I hoped he and I would have been and I had invested a LOT of time in the marriage and didn't want to throw that away in the slim chance he might sober up.
And I was abused as a kid and raised to believe I was not a good person if I "kicked someone when they are down" aka standing up for yourself and not tolerating BS behavior.
Minus the hitting part, I see a lot of my old self in your defense of your boyfriend and your desire to try and control things to make them work as you would like and deserve them to.
But maybe my story is a cautionary tale of what can happen if this goes on too long.
You could easily be arrested-- even now-- if your boyfriend goes to the police.... Do you want that?
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