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have you said awful things in anger?

Old 09-18-2010, 03:13 PM
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Our Abandonment Book says "Anger is a sign that your ready to stand on your own two feet again." pg.170
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:05 PM
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L2L, sorry but that was not me about the JUST FOR TODAY bookmarker..that was CAROL STAR...
and thank you Carol Star for that reminder...I did forget that one!





Originally Posted by Carol Star View Post
I make amends if I was truly wrong. We are human. Say the Serentiy prayer. Ask God to help you not be angry, or overreact just for today. I love that Alanon bookmark.....help me; not be afraid just for today, have a program, study, be agreeable, be happy, live through this day only,have quiet time, adjust myself to what is, just for today. The detachment flier says; we learn not to suffer from the actions of others, not be used or abused, not do for them what they could do, not manipulate situations or others or cover up for them ,not create a crisis , if it is in the natural course of events not prevent a crisis.....Focus on ourselves.....allow them to experience the consequences of their actions.
aah man! GOT THAT!! MOMENT
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Carol Star View Post
Our Abandonment Book says "Anger is a sign that your ready to stand on your own two feet again." pg.170
i need to get that book.

if i do not have abandonment issues, i would be very surprised.

thanks all,
chicory
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:12 PM
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Aw, sorry Carol Star for misappropriating my thanks! My eyes have been very googly lately. Thank you for the reminder of Just for Today.

Thanks FourMaggie for pointing that out!
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:17 PM
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:ghug3 I hope my posts were not offensive Chicory. I hope I did not come across as irritated or anything. I did not feel that way or intend that. I am sorry if I offended. I am glad you are here!!! Keep doing what you're doing and don't worry if it seems people are triggered by anything. We all come to it when we come to it, and no one has the right to rush us. Life is a process and we learn as we go. Just keep practicing and holding your head up high!
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:30 PM
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Chicory it is so hard when they know the buttons to push to shove you right over the edge. I have been working on that for awhile and even when I think I have it-bingo, new button.

My oldest son does this when he wants to create chaos. One of the things that used to drive me over the edge was something I called the Golum. After he had been in a rage and I would open the door he would grovel around my feet, holding my ankles begging me not to hit him. I don't hit him and it drove me nuts when he did this. It took a lot of teeth clenching to look at him and say, hmm, I guess you are not ready to talk to me yet and walk away.

I think I need to get "the book" too. Although I don't feel abandoned by stbxah exactly what I feel was abandoned was my dream for a real life.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
:ghug3 I hope my posts were not offensive Chicory. I hope I did not come across as irritated or anything. I did not feel that way or intend that. I am sorry if I offended. I am glad you are here!!! Keep doing what you're doing and don't worry if it seems people are triggered by anything. We all come to it when we come to it, and no one has the right to rush us. Life is a process and we learn as we go. Just keep practicing and holding your head up high!
No, I can feel your compassion throughout, and I appreciate you!
Sometimes, to be misunderstood really bothers me. like , if i give enough explanation, it will help me to get the right help.

I have so much to learn.

As I said, I appreciate you and your time. It helps.

big hugs,
chicory
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:44 PM
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My oldest son does this when he wants to create chaos. One of the things that used to drive me over the edge was something I called the Golum. After he had been in a rage and I would open the door he would grovel around my feet, holding my ankles begging me not to hit him. I don't hit him and it drove me nuts when he did this. It took a lot of teeth clenching to look at him and say, hmm, I guess you are not ready to talk to me yet and walk away.

Wife2Kids,
whatever possesses them, sometimes? God love ya.
life sure is interesting sometimes, isn't it?

*the Golum*-lol
hugs, and thanks,
chicory
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:57 AM
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I don't like being misunderstood either! I don't think you are "keeping him" from getting an independent life, I understand that he is hanging on and won't leave peacefully, and that is horrible to enforce. I hope with everything I have that I never have to deal with the issues that an Alcoholic husband brought in a child of mine. I beleive it is different and more difficult to navigate when they are your children. I also beleive it is more difficult when the addicted/alcoholic family member is your parent, because your world view is defined by that dysfunction.

Of course we have hopes and dreams for our children, that they will be happy, live lives that they define as meaningful, that they continue to grow and love and prosper. We would be odd parents if we didn't want that for those that we brought into the world. And of course we want to help them through rough patches, and smooth their road if we can.

I also understand that you are very sad and worried for him too, which is entirely natural. I have no doubt that all your actions and feelings are borne out of love for your son.

he is chosing not to take responsibility for his life, I don't think that is your fault, in any way. If my mother asked me to leave I would go, quickly, quietly and trying to make amends for any behaviour that had precipitated that. You have given and put up with more than most parents would. He isn't grateful for your help, he wants far more. I don't think your son is bad, but he is playing on your feelings of guilt, probably unconciously.

You mentioned having alcoholic parents? Most of us vow never to repeat our parents mistakes, when we have children, I wonder if the guilt, the feeling that you are abandoning someone who has no-one else (because no-one else will put up with him) has anything to do with not wanting to repeat their parenting actions toward you. May be entirely off base.

I'm glad you are here, I'm sorry if anything I wrote came accross as critisising you. that was not my intention. (())
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:28 AM
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Is there some agency in your town which could help you find placement for him somewhere where he could get housing and recovery? Here we have the Salvation Army and they get recovery too. They help them get a job and permanent housing after a certain amount of time. I am in central Va. I agree the Alanon bookmark saved my life too. Especially the part "just for today help me not be afraid....."
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:47 AM
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Chicory, I can feel your pain and I'm so sorry. I know how maddening it is when someone you love and cares for just throws all that love back in your face with disrespect, derision, and just selfish, irrational thinking (believe it or not, I'm not thinking of my AH, I'm thinking specifically of my younger brother who sounds a LOT like your son). But for the most part, that's the disease!

I don't know what to tell you about October 1. Step 1, as you said, is just getting him out the door, which I realize will be painfully difficult for you if he does not go willingly. Do you have any support there who could be there to reinforce your resolve? How about having someone you love and trust stay with you for a day, tell him on September 30 that you expect him to be out, and then if he defies that, just wait until he leaves the house and then change the locks and put his stuff out on the lawn? I know that sounds really harsh, but he's had plenty of time to get the message. My MIL did that with her brother, and he wound up fine. He got himself an apartment and eventually moved to Florida to be with his kids.

Your son has his own HP. Trust that.

Once he's gone, it will be SO much easier for you to put this all behind you and lead your own life.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:18 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Sometimes, to be misunderstood really bothers me. like , if i give enough explanation, it will help me to get the right help.
Me too. I am often misunderstood I think because I do not always say things the "right" way. I can be very blunt but it is not a reflection on how I feel about the other person. It is just how my brain is wired. It takes a lot of work on my part to compensate for that.

Some people get really angry at me because they do not understand me, but I am learning how to let other people own their own frustration and anger. I think one of the mods here, Mike, explains it in terms of "triggers." That is, if someone is triggered from your posts, it is their responsibility to take a couple steps back and chill for a while.

Don't forget too Chicory, we are all coming from our own places and tend to see your situation through our own lenses. Al-Anon teaches you to "take what you like and leave the rest." It takes practice to filter out what people say without letting it hurt you. I am glad you are able to respond effectively when someone does not understand.

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense but I hope something here is helpful.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:37 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Carol Star View Post
Is there some agency in your town which could help you find placement for him somewhere where he could get housing and recovery? Here we have the Salvation Army and they get recovery too. They help them get a job and permanent housing after a certain amount of time. I am in central Va. I agree the Alanon bookmark saved my life too. Especially the part "just for today help me not be afraid....."
Carol,
I have checked around and know that there is a shelter. there may or may not be a vacancy at any one time. He has to call them, they wont even tell me if there is.
there is no salvation army, closer than 25 miles.

It ain't gonna be pretty. He mentioned getting counselling together,at a crisis center near by, after one day last week, when we were at each others throats trying to be understood.

i am wondering if it would be a good idea, as they are a crisis center, and they may know of some resources. tho doubtful in this economy and this poor town. but it is worth trying.

thanks Carol. much appreciate you guys,
hug,
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:51 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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he is chosing not to take responsibility for his life, I don't think that is your fault, in any way. If my mother asked me to leave I would go, quickly, quietly and trying to make amends for any behaviour that had precipitated that. You have given and put up with more than most parents would. He isn't grateful for your help, he wants far more. I don't think your son is bad, but he is playing on your feelings of guilt, probably unconciously.
You know , if he could put as much effort into taking care of his self, as he does trying to get his way here, he could go far.

You mentioned having alcoholic parents? Most of us vow never to repeat our parents mistakes, when we have children, I wonder if the guilt, the feeling that you are abandoning someone who has no-one else (because no-one else will put up with him) has anything to do with not wanting to repeat their parenting actions toward you. May be entirely off base.
Yes, I always told myself that I would always let my children speak their minds, instead of getting slapped in the face if they dared to give an opinion, or speak back. I did try on occasion as a child, to talk back, even knowing that I was gonna get a slap. Indomitable spirit? I like to think. I always showed them love, and made sure that they felt valued, and with him being the first child, i probably doted on him, and made him feel as if he is the "little prince". he never was a nasty child, just self centered, and stubborn. very stubborn. his dad has a crazy stubborn dysfunctional personality, even telling his kids that he smokes cause something is gonna kill him-if its his time, its his time, etc. he always found a way to do what he wanted , even if it dissappointed the kids, after the divorce. never had time for them. and truthfully, we both always did more for son, feeling that he needed the help. I truly dont know why we did that, unless it is cause son just always had meltdown over any red-tape , or any boring responsiblility. He seemed to need a "jumpstart" in life, but , that never did work!!!

I
'm glad you are here, I'm sorry if anything I wrote came accross as critisising you. that was not my intention. (())
No, not at all. I have found your insight very helpful . two heads are better than one, and you have a good head on your shoulders, and I do so appreciate your help!
I did not wish to make anyone feel badly by my post. just wanted to add a few t hings to make it more clear about what is going on here.

yes- to the question of whether my parents affect how i treat my children. a big yes.
hugs,
chicory
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:57 AM
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First born, only boy? Could be where it all began. Hard to say. I am an only child to my father. He made it real clear, he wanted a boy that he could fish with....only thing is, he didn't fish! As a girl, I never cut the mustard, although I never gave him one bit of a problem. Left home at 18 and never turned back.

My mother had another child, a boy, he is my mothers favorite, no doubt about if.

I feel that all parents have a favorite, most will deny it, but others see it clearly.

Have a good day!
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
Kiki,
He has no job, no car , no license, no friends (he lived with them all and burned bridges).
once, i set him out and he had to go to a homeless shelter for a few months. it was so hard, to put family out on the street. a friend rescued him- wish he hadn;t - maybe he would have done more for his future by now.
i need for him to go. he wants to live on his own, and I PRAY for that day, but it aint gonna happen right away, cause he has nothing.
so, yes, it is scary. i want him out, if he wanted to take off now, with only a back pack, and the clothes on his back, i'd wish him well, and be glad that he had that much courage and gumption. but he is depressed about having to go, and about having no one else . he does not see his own potential, but time will tell what he is made of.
thanks for your concern- i appreciate it so much.
chicory
Chicory,

my oldest daughter lives with her boyfriend, my grandaughter (her daughter/not this boyfriends daughter) is living with them.

While I was battling two cancers and going to chemo, she was getting in trouble and landed in jail for 3 months. I had to watch my grandaughter during that time. She showed no concern about that. She did manage to call just about every night to ask for money and just looking for sympathy and to talk to her daughter. I had a hard time trying to explain where her mommy is. She kept asking for her and I kept telling her she was at work far away. It was heart wrenching.

She kept getting in fights either with her boyfriend or someone in the house. We were all walking on pins and needles so as not to make her mad. She always found something to be mad about.

I finally kicked her out. She went to live with her boyfriend. After about 2 months they got in a fight (surprise, surprise!) and he kicked her out. She wanted to come back home. I told her I will take care of my grandaughter, but she cannot come back.

She promised she was going to get a place of her own, I even offered to help financially, but she lied and ended up moving back with the boyfriend, and didn't tell me. When I asked her what 's going on, she told me not to bother her.

Lovely....

I told her if she doesn't take responsibility for herself and her child, I will take her child away, raise her myself, and demand child support from her.

She came to pick up her daughter and I didn't hear from her for 3 weeks.

This weekend she asked if my grandaughter can spend the weekend. Of course I said yes.

Last night, I got a phone call at 4AM from her boyfriend that they were both drunk, got in a fight and he can't take it any more.

Suprise, surprise...

I felt so sick to my stomach.

I told him, DO NOT bring her here. If she comes back home, the only place she's going is to a mental hospital. We were not going to live in fear of her outburst in our own home.

I gave him, one day, today/Sunday. To figure it out.

I'm tired of bailing her out, and the only thing I get in return is more grief and total ungratefulness.

If I let her, she will destroy me. Drive me to drink again. I am not going there again.

Best of luck to you. I know how hard this is for you and totally heart braking.
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:17 PM
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Oh Kiki,
I am trulysorry. I am sure that you must be so disappointed. but stay strong, as they say, and let her hit her bottom. sounds like she really needs a lesson. I am glad that your grand daughter has you. I hope that you are doing well, health wise, and you need to take care of you, so you dont get sick again.
Is she an alcoholic?

big hugs,
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
Oh Kiki,
I am trulysorry. I am sure that you must be so disappointed. but stay strong, as they say, and let her hit her bottom. sounds like she really needs a lesson. I am glad that your grand daughter has you. I hope that you are doing well, health wise, and you need to take care of you, so you dont get sick again.
Is she an alcoholic?

big hugs,
chicory
every time she drinks it turns into a nightmare. Absolute nightmare. From what I hear, she's not drinking every day but when she does she turns into a monster.

When she's sober she is smart, funny, outgoing and has goals but then she has a drink and her inner demons come out. She needs psychiatric help and medication but since she's 24 yrs old, I cannot force her to do anything. She has to do this on her own and see that the destruction she brings on everyone, is not acceptable and nobody is going to put up with it. I can't keep enabling her and let her destroy everyone else in my house along with herself.

I wish you good luck and hope life brings you and your son good changes.

I"m trying not to get wrapped up in the negativity and let it spiral me down.

I just want to tell you one story. When I lived in New York, I heard about this elderly neighbor who had a grown up daughter living with her. This daughter was in her 30s or so. This daughter stold her mother's pension money, her groceries and and anything else her mother had of value, and was verbally and physically abusive to her mother. The daughter was a drug addict and an alcoholic. The mother didn't have the heart to kick her daughter out because she felt it was her fault for having a daughter with so many problems. (Sounds familiar, doesn't it.) This daughter never got better and the old lady died. (Talk about elderly abuse!)

Every time I think of that elderly lady, I think to myself, I don't want to be that way. I will NOT let my destructive daughter's behavior destroy me and basically kill me.

That is why I will not let her come back. She will learn to take responsibility for her actions. I did the best I could. I cannot control what she does outside of my house, but I can control what she does IN my house.

It hurts, but it has to be that way.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:49 PM
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Thanks kiki,
for sharing. I know it hurts, but it willl hurt muxh more when we are old ladies getting our pensions stolen , right?
not gonna let that happen. i feel stronger every day, as long as I work on me.

hugs,
chicory
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Life is a process and we learn as we go. Just keep practicing
IS THAT NOT THE TRUTH eh? <<<CANADIAN what can i say...LOL
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