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have you said awful things in anger?

Old 09-18-2010, 03:56 AM
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have you said awful things in anger?

last night, after a fight with adult son, i feel so worthless. i said things in anger, again. he knows which buttons to push, even telling me that i use him as a scapegoat!

it all happened over something so stupid. i was sooo angry tho, and even went up to him and made little punches on his arm- not hard- but i felt so ugly and childish afterward. he was being so nasty to me, it was late, i worked late, and had to get up in am.( all cause he wanted instant tea. and i had brought some home, and he did not notice it on the counter.) i just thought he was insisting to have his food card(, which i use, as i work in grocery and do the shopping,) to get vanilla- to drink- as he has sometimes threatened to do, when he has been over stressed. this is a mess.

my sadness over giving him till the first of the month to be here is overwhelming me, and he has the insanity to say i am using him as a scapegoat for my problems. i pretty much have no problems other than my adult son , who i am sure is on his way to being an alchie, from past drinking habits, is living here, and not making much of an effort to change his life, tho he says he is.

sorry to tell such yukky stuff. i just feel like a crazy monster-mom, and i know that he is pushing me due to his stresses. if he had a dad here, and was yelling f' you in his face, he would probably have grabbed him by the collar and thrown him out- he is not afraid of me, that is for sure, nor respects or appreciates me.

it is hard to pray, when i feel like i am right up there with violent criminals. i was up late, for i could not bear going to bed and having said ugly, which he did too, and we called a truce. he was obviously thinking all day yesterday, about the things i said about alcoholism and him. i just want him to be thinking about what his life may end up like, and what it can do to him. he has not drank for a while, and he is probably getting healthier, brain wise.
i know i cant fix him, but i want him to think about it. if he is not an alcoholic, i want him to be afraid to be one. i know, let go. but how?
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:39 AM
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last night, after a fight with adult son, i feel so worthless. i said things in anger, again. he knows which buttons to push, even telling me that i use him as a scapegoat!
Right. Reacting in anger can make me feel so worthless and bad and horrible. Because it just does not match up to my values and morals. But when I include alcoholics and addicts in my life who are not in Recovery, I fight, yell and scream all the time.

Why? Many reasons but mostly because they WANT to push my buttons. They WANT to hook me right back in to the crap they call their life. You see, they HAVE TO do this to me, so that I can explode and overreact and scream and yell and behave poorly, so that they can continue to point their finger at me and believe for themselves that I am the problem.

You see, EVERY time you fall for this trick, you are perpetuating the disease. EVERY time you react, their minds say, "Look at how horrible she acts. Look at how she treats me. Look at how she is using me." And they go on feeling OK about and even JUSTIFIED in their drinking and bad behavior. YOU are his alcoholism's scapegoat and you keep falling for it.

Here's my advice:
Stop reacting. Learn to just breathe. Get smart to his game. Learn how to step back. Inhibit yourself. Stop listening to him.

i know i cant fix him, but i want him to think about it. if he is not an alcoholic, i want him to be afraid to be one. i know, let go. but how?
What right do you have to choose for someone else when and how they should think? Or how to feel? Do you honestly believe you can control how someone else thinks and feels?
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:56 AM
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What right do you have to choose for someone else when and how they should think? Or how to feel?
Sorry, I just realized that sounded harsh. I wrote that hastily, did not mean to be so blunt or sound accusatory. What I meant was, I used to do this very thing for pretty much everyone in my life. I could not understand why they could not see my rationale for why they should do or think or feel the same as me. But sooner or later I realized it wasn't working and that really, it is not my job to decide how another person should perceive something.
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:00 AM
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All I can say is that, he is an adult. He can choose to live his life any way that he wants to. He can think what he wants and have his own feelings.

Because he is your son it doesn't mean that you own him. You are trying to control him, it will not work, he is 38 year old man. In two years he will be considered middle aged!

As for the anger, it does happen. He is good at pushing your buttons.

Let it go, focus on you.

It's time for him to go out on his own, let him go.
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:01 AM
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Wow, I know exactly how you feel, because I did the EXACT same thing yesterday with regard to the Facebook incident that I mentioned in another post. I am, by nature, a VERY restrained person, very slow to anger. But sometimes it seems the the pressure builds up and I blow like Vescuivius! I feel like that Jet Blue guy who just snapped--but our excape hatches with alcoholics aren't as easy as pressing a button to release a rubber ramp--boy it wish it were that easy! We must have been going through the exact same emotions yesterday, chickory, and we didn't even know it!

I was even embarrassed to realize my windows were open, and my neighbors probably got an earful! And I'm someone who sweeps EVERYTHING under the rug emotionally--I yell maybe once every two years.

In this case I think I "blew" because he was SO irrational, and I think I was trying to scream sense into him--but my main emotion was pure frustration more than anything else--not anger.

So I, like you, was doing soul-searching and realized I should NOT have brought up the topic when he was drinking--duh, Al-Anon 101. But OK, I slipped on that one. I think what I did AFTER I ranted was what I should have done BEFORE--I took the dog to the dog park for an hour and half and it calmed me down big time.

I think all of us are entitled to messing up every now and then. The sad part is as L2L said, we just reduce ourselves to their level, which isn't pretty, and we know it. That's we we feel bad and worthless afterwards.

Yesterday's gone--just pick yourself up and find something to do FOR YOU today.
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:13 AM
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Does your son have a job? CAn he manage to stay on his own, or share an apartment with a friend?

If he does, I would do everything possible to get him out of the house. He'll get use to being on his own. It just takes some push that first step. And you will feel guilt, pain, and heartache, but once he's out he'll find his way. Believe me, he will. Then you will feel GREAT!

It's just that first push out of the house that's the hardest.

Of course if he don't have a job, nor anyplace to go, I can understand why he'd be scared and you also.
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Old 09-18-2010, 06:18 AM
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I have said such horrid things, felt such rage with my XAH that I am truly ashamed that I allowed anger to take hold of me like that. He was an expert at pushing buttons, winding me up, ignoring or twisting things that I said and I too would blow like Vesuvious. All I can do is forgive myself and try to do better. I now think that XAH would play situations to make me blow up so that he could convince himself that my behaviour was worse than his.
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Old 09-18-2010, 06:52 AM
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Chicory, Don't beat yourself up; he is your son; it must be hard to detach. I'm still working my way up to letting my son play with childern his own age. Your son is middle aged and still living with you and cumsuming you to the point of bringing him tea after your long day at work. I don't know, but from an outsider looking in I think you should give him the tea, take him by the hand, kiss him on the cheek, tell him you'll always love him and show him to the front door. I know, easy to say, but I think you might be holding him back from his well, LIFE.
This must be so hard, I wish I could hug you. I kept my word I included YOU and your son in my prayers at night and now in the morning too. This evening I'm going to confession (for the first time in 20 years) and then mass. I will pray again there too. I will light a candle for YOU. Let the fire burn to bring you peace of mind, to forgive yourself, to know your only human and doing the best job you can do.
Lots of love.....wow
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:31 AM
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Of course I've said things in anger that I regret . Especially when I am tired. I am human.

he hadn't seen the food you had brought back for tea on the side and used that as an excuse to be mean towards you. he doesn't work right? so he has sat around all day, and when his servant gets home from the job that pays for the roof over his head he wants tea on the table instantly, and when it isn't and he rages about this, the servant has the cheek to answer back. Just can't get the staff these days can you?

You are not his slave, he is not a kid, he's not even a young adult, he's well into his 30s or 40s if I remember? I would stop cooking for him, don't do his laundry (I did my own laundry from when I was 13), anything else you do for him, etc. This is going to seem weird, but the arguing is something he wants too, so if you can, stop that as well.

From here it is easy to see how he has attempted to shift the focus, from his terrible, selfish, disrespectful, ungrateful, lazy, verbally abusive, arrogant behaviour, on to your exhausted flare up? And you've bought into it (I did too); instead of thinking "I wish I hadn't said those things, I'm tired and living in an intolerable atmosphere, I must make attempts to stop being so tired and to stop living with someone who i feel so horrible around", you're comparing yourself with violent criminals.

he needs to grow up, he appears to be far too comfortable continuing to be a toddler. I know you feel rotten about asking him to leave, but living together hasn't fostered any self-reliance and good behaviour has it? You have done your job, got him to 18, it is way past time for him to take responsibility for his own life, choices and mistakes rather than relying on you.

((hugs))
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:36 AM
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((((HUGS)))) I'm sorry you are still dealing with this. The thing is, the situation is not going to get better and the longer you are living this way, the more it spirals downward. His move-out date is getting closer and of course, it is causing pressure for both of you. What has he done about finding a place to live? What has he really done about finding a job? Does he get up every morning, shower, put on clean clothes and head out looking for work? Has he shown any progress in attempting to make plans for himself?

What is going to happen on October 1st?
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:14 AM
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Right. Reacting in anger can make me feel so worthless and bad and horrible. Because it just does not match up to my values and morals.quote by Learn2Live

been there and done that...the last time I saw my friend it was in HASTE also...then he left...HE wrote his peace in a letter when he left and I was at work...I have not said I am sorry...he left...before i can even make amends...(its driving me crazy)BUT i believe in my HP will help me through this..and in my own way, make my amends through a PICTURE...
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:15 AM
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Oh yeah he's an alcoholic if he's drinking vanilla.......I forget there is fight.....flight.....and there is FREEZE. Walking in the country helps me. Do not engage with him if he is using. I make amends if I was truly wrong. We are human. Say the Serentiy prayer. Ask God to help you not be angry, or overreact just for today. I love that Alanon bookmark.....help me; not be afraid just for today, have a program, study, be agreeable, be happy, live through this day only,have quiet time, adjust myself to what is, just for today. The detachment flier says; we learn not to suffer from the actions of others, not be used or abused, not do for them what they could do, not manipulate situations or others or cover up for them ,not create a crisis , if it is in the natural course of events not prevent a crisis.....Focus on ourselves.....allow them to experience the consequences of their actions.
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:16 AM
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Hugs, Chicory,

Of course we've all said horrible things in anger. It doesn't make us horrible people, but it inflicts at least as much pain on us as it does on the target (who usually uses it as an excuse to do what they wanted to do anyway).

Incidentally, I've never heard of anyone not an alcoholic drinking vanilla extract.

Don't allow him to guilt-trip you. If he accuses you of making him a scapegoat for your problems, just smile and say, hm, interesting thought, I'll have to think about that when you're out on your own. They say things like that because it will hit a nerve because there's usually a tiny grain of truth in it. The problem with the logic is that even if you ARE using him as a "scapegoat" that is completely irrelevant to YOUR point, which is that he has to get out on his own.

I say there's a tiny grain of truth in it (or maybe even not-so-tiny) because just as we alcoholics still have problems because of our own selves even after the alcohol is removed from our lives, so too we Al-Anons still have ourselves to deal with even after the alcoholic is out of the house, or even our lives. We get so used to focusing on THE problem (as we perceive it) that when it is gone and things are still messed up in our heads we realize there's more going on with us than just THE problem.

Still, once THE problem is gone, it makes it easier to address the other stuff because it isn't masked any longer.

Hang in there.
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:43 AM
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I love that Alanon bookmark.....help me; not be afraid just for today, have a program, study, be agreeable, be happy, live through this day only,have quiet time, adjust myself to what is, just for today.
Thank you for the reminder about the bookmark fourmaggie! I still have it somewhere amongst my books and things on the bookshelf next to my bed.
I tell ya', and I know this sounds funny, but I think that bookmark SAVED my life. It truly was influential in starting me on my journey of learning how to live. Here it is:

Just for Today

JUST FOR TODAY I will try to live through this day only, and not tackle all my problems at once. I can do something for twelve hours that would appall me if I felt that I had to keep it up for a lifetime.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be happy. This assumes to be true what Abraham Lincoln said, that "Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be."

JUST FOR TODAY I will adjust myself to what is, and not try to adjust everything to my own desires. I will take my "luck" as it comes, and fit myself to it.

JUST FOR TODAY I will try to strengthen my mind. I will study. I will lean something useful. I will not be a mental loafer. I will read something that requires effort, thought and concentration.

JUST FOR TODAY I will exercise my soul in three ways: I will do somebody a good turn, and not get found out; if anybody knows of it, it will not count. I will do at least two things I don't want to do - just for exercise. I will not show anyone that my feelings are hurt; they may be hurt, but today I will not show it.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be agreeable. I will look as well as I can, dress becomingly, keep my voice low, be courteous, criticize not one bit. I won't find fault with anything, nor try to improve or regulate anybody but myself.

JUST FOR TODAY I will have a program. I may not follow it exactly but I will have it. I will save myself from two pests: hurry and indecision.

JUST FOR TODAY I will have a quiet half hour all by myself and relax. During this half hour, sometime, I will try to get a better perspective on my life.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be unafraid. Especially I will not be afraid to enjoy what is beautiful, and to believe that as I give to the world, so the world will give to me.

This conference-approved literature in bookmark form provides meditations and a prayer to help us stay focused on what we can do, “Just For Today.” Publications & information reprinted with permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc., Virginia Beach, VA
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:28 AM
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I know how you feel. I got into it with my grandmother AGAIN last night. I keep reacting negatively to her when I feel my buttons being pushed. I am still new to learning new patterns and behaviors and I failed last night and ended up in tears. I can't change her but only myself and it will take time but it is so hard to go through this uncertain and vulnerable time. It is good to know I am not alone.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:31 AM
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I've been wondering how you're doing.

For me, I had to get to a point where I refused to engage.

It's so hardwired into me, to fight, to make my point, to try to get my A to love me.

It started, about two years ago, with me realizing AH would turn my topic into something I didn't want to talk about, usually turning the conversation around to blame me. So I started saying, "we can talk about that when we're done with this conversation if you like."

After about a year of those incrimentle realizations and changes in the way I conversed with him, I still found myself fighting with him. Because all the responsibility lay on me. I had to be stable, steer the conversation, not react. I was the grown up, the mother, the person getting better while he just kept drinking and denying.

So, I left. I went NC which gave me more relief than I can say.

Before I left, I also brought on the shame you're experiencing, it's part of the trap. Get pulled into an ugly fight. React. Feel shameful. Go running back in an attempt to get someone else to help absolve me of my pain. We both apologize, feel bad together until the next time. Repeat. Nothing changed except my level of shame and hopelessness. And his escalating drinking.
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:30 AM
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I find it's useful to apologize if only to restore my own sense of decency, and only if I truly feel sorry.

But also it is important for me, for my own growth and mental health, to examine the circumstances: what led to me getting out of control?
Was I already: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired?

Was I pushed beyond my capacity to cope because of someone's absolutely unacceptable outrageous behavior? Feeling unappreciated? Abused? Taken advantage of? Anger is often justified! It's what we choose to do with it that usually gets us in trouble.

I agree with transform - just try to not engage on any level with him. Leave the room. Say "hunh" or "oh" or "I see." and walk away.

i know i cant fix him, but i want him to think about it. if he is not an alcoholic, i want him to be afraid to be one.

Maybe stop wanting!! Your expectations and your imagination about what he is thinking about is just going to make you super nuts! It is. I know because before AlAnon I used to obsess about those things too in relation to my Abros.

Give up all attempts and beliefs in your influence!! That way lies madness!

Peace and forgive yourself -
B
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:44 PM
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Kiki,
He has no job, no car , no license, no friends (he lived with them all and burned bridges).
once, i set him out and he had to go to a homeless shelter for a few months. it was so hard, to put family out on the street. a friend rescued him- wish he hadn;t - maybe he would have done more for his future by now.
i need for him to go. he wants to live on his own, and I PRAY for that day, but it aint gonna happen right away, cause he has nothing.
so, yes, it is scary. i want him out, if he wanted to take off now, with only a back pack, and the clothes on his back, i'd wish him well, and be glad that he had that much courage and gumption. but he is depressed about having to go, and about having no one else . he does not see his own potential, but time will tell what he is made of.
thanks for your concern- i appreciate it so much.
chicory
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Old 09-18-2010, 01:24 PM
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"i know i cant fix him, but i want him to think about it. if he is not an alcoholic, i want him to be afraid to be one."

I know that sometimes I do not express myself right. What I was saying to my son is " I do not want you to die from alcoholism". it had to be said. I want him to know how afraid I am. Not cause I think I am so smart, but because I love him no end, and would give my life for him. I told him of the things i have learned about alcoholism- the details about the disease, the destruction, the process that happens. I have always been close to my children- it was me and them, and I raised them on my own. I tell them whatever I feel, and they do the same with me.
I just want him to know the terrible scary things i have learned here. i think that sometimes , we learn from others, and their words. not usually, not much , and probably not alcoholics, but I had to try.and had to tell him that I do not want to lose my only son to the monster of alcohol. i already lost my mother and my dad to this poison. and for what? what did they get out of it? i know now that they felt so miserable and sick much of the time. before i came here, i had limited information of what it really does to you, and how you really feel. the progression.
even if it is useless, i had to tell him how i fear for him. why not? he should know how dangerous it is. someday, maybe he will think, when he has a bad morning, and cant understand why he feels so ill after his night of drinking, he may think, and wonder, if he is being killed by his addiction.

a few things.
i have never seen him drink vanilla. he threatened to , because he was so stressed, and i would not let him have any beer here. he did not do it, that i am aware of.

another thing.
I would let him go , right now. but when oct 1st comes around, he will fight leaving. he will have to be peeled out of here, and i will need assistance getting him out. he has no respect for me, and if i said leave now, he would just laugh in derision, and say "right. another bad day at work ,and making me your whipping boy again. he is choosing to see it the way he wants to .

he has not been drinking here. no job, no money.

and yes, what he does is not enough. he cannot be trying as much as he should when i come home and he is napping until evening. he calls places. that is his method. he will say he will walk down to a place, then changes his mind, and calls. to me, he should be out walking most of the day.

i told him last night that he was the one of three children that we came to the rescue for. we bought his first car- the girls bought theirs. they worked jobs, and did not take off days, he says that everyone does it and he gets fired.

my son has something going on, and I cannot do any more to help. he has to want help.

i do not mean to push codie buttons here.

I feel like some of you think that i hang onto him, and wont let go.

I am trying to figure out how the heck to make him leave!

Thanks to you all for your support. I will re-read these comments. I was dreading coming home and reading them . afraid that i was going to get all kinds of chastising for being so out of control.

we were out of instant ice tea mix. he drinks it constantly.
I think in the uk, tea is an afternoon snack?

I do not wait on him, that is for sure.
no laundry service, he does dishes, and cleans.
i shop, for i have the car.

I feel nuts today

gonna try to get myself back , into peace. boy, it seems harder and harder, for some reason. i am not doing something right here.
It's ok. thanks for being here. sorry if i am making someone crazy with my choices, but i am doing all that my mom heart can do here. i love him, and want him to have a real life, or just get out and work at making one. i dont want to choose for him, just want him to be out doing his own thing, and to be alive.
hugs
chicory
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:46 PM
  # 20 (permalink)  
I Love Who I Am
 
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A- stop apologizing! You're not responsible for others issues. You're here to get help and
B- just put him out! He's a freaking grown up Chicory. I know how hard it is but he's driving you crazy.

There's your lecture for the day. And a hug.
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