A Million Little Pieces
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Me too!! I can't get my head round calling anyone 'dry drunk' I don't get how it can fit with the whole 'don't take someone else's inventory' - what the smeg is it if not that?
If I had taken tghe courage and effort to overcome alcohol addiction I'd go bonkers if I still got called drunk - even with 'dry' stuck in front of it!
One day soon I may actually achieve giving up ciggies, I'm kind of grateful that future smeg-ups on my part won't get labelled as me being a 'dry' smoker. (Mind you wet smoking would be a bit of a struggle).
If my hubby does something annoying, awful, frustrating, confusing or just flippin' daft, it's because he's human, imperfect and sometimes a plonker - just the same as me!! If someone called him a dry drunk I'd be tempted to slap 'em!
If I had taken tghe courage and effort to overcome alcohol addiction I'd go bonkers if I still got called drunk - even with 'dry' stuck in front of it!
One day soon I may actually achieve giving up ciggies, I'm kind of grateful that future smeg-ups on my part won't get labelled as me being a 'dry' smoker. (Mind you wet smoking would be a bit of a struggle).
If my hubby does something annoying, awful, frustrating, confusing or just flippin' daft, it's because he's human, imperfect and sometimes a plonker - just the same as me!! If someone called him a dry drunk I'd be tempted to slap 'em!
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
I watched the LKL interview twice. While JF seemed genuinely sincere in his demeanor and verbal expression, his constant evasiveness was like an itch I couldn't scratch, and he had a pervasive menacing/vacant look that was strange to see and difficult to shake after seeing the interview. I'll never forget his eyes and certain mannerisms. Kind of spooky. He also appeared slightly nervous at times.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Dry Drunk?
No such thing. Unless, of course, you go to AA. Then dry drunk makes sense. I can understand why some people use the term, but its certainly not how I would describe someone who is not working the programme.
No such thing. Unless, of course, you go to AA. Then dry drunk makes sense. I can understand why some people use the term, but its certainly not how I would describe someone who is not working the programme.
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
"Dry drunk" is definitely not a term I would apply to JF. He seemed very sincere in admitting to having made mistakes.... "growing up" were words he used in this admission.
Still, I wonder if he would have made an incomplete effort to come clean on these allegations had they not been exposed.
Yes, he did admit to Oprah's producers that he altered certain details of his book, however, he was unspecific as to details, like the train wreck. That wasn't a matter of "subjective memory," as JF vaguely applied to - again - non-specifics. He wouldn't elaborate on the LKL interview regarding the train wreck, after being shown footage of one of the Smoking Gun investigators exposing his "embellishment" to another interviewer.
Still, I wonder if he would have made an incomplete effort to come clean on these allegations had they not been exposed.
Yes, he did admit to Oprah's producers that he altered certain details of his book, however, he was unspecific as to details, like the train wreck. That wasn't a matter of "subjective memory," as JF vaguely applied to - again - non-specifics. He wouldn't elaborate on the LKL interview regarding the train wreck, after being shown footage of one of the Smoking Gun investigators exposing his "embellishment" to another interviewer.
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
Interesting that perhaps his embellishments reflected the effect (or affect) of certain experiences he had, in the sense that while the train wreck story was made up to his own interpretation, Michelle's (Melissa's) death may have had the same psychological impact as though what he had written was true.
This I can relate to. Say, in the few times I have come near death, the circumstances may not have been as severe or dramatic as the next addict; however, my experiences were no less excruciating in their own right. And I could construe my experiences to reflect that fictitiously.
Why couldn't he explain it as plainly (if this is the case)?
Ironically, it makes his work appear all the more brilliant, and it makes sense.
Subjective? Perhaps.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
(Or !*DUH*! in my case.)
This I can relate to. Say, in the few times I have come near death, the circumstances may not have been as severe or dramatic as the next addict; however, my experiences were no less excruciating in their own right. And I could construe my experiences to reflect that fictitiously.
Why couldn't he explain it as plainly (if this is the case)?
Ironically, it makes his work appear all the more brilliant, and it makes sense.
Subjective? Perhaps.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
(Or !*DUH*! in my case.)
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
Just waned to add - before I finally go to sleep - that in the interview, JF described a "memoir" as a new genre in book categories, with no set boundaries as to factual/fictitious content. Certainly this would entitle him to creative license.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Interesting that perhaps his embellishments reflected the effect (or affect) of certain experiences he had, in the sense that while the train wreck story was made up to his own interpretation, Michelle's (Melissa's) death may have had the same psychological impact as though what he had written was true.
As a bit of a "writer" myself, I use this. Its a bit like metaphor, or analogy, for something I want to describe in an indirect way.
But if the guy said "its all true" then he should face the music. A methaphor is not the truth. Or is it?
AAAAAAAARgggh
As a bit of a "writer" myself, I use this. Its a bit like metaphor, or analogy, for something I want to describe in an indirect way.
But if the guy said "its all true" then he should face the music. A methaphor is not the truth. Or is it?
AAAAAAAARgggh
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
You know what blows my mind? Some of you get your nickers in a not when you get a dose of honesty from someone on this forum, but insist on defending this guy, who has apparently not been quite as honest as people were lead to believe. I guess it depends on who the messenger is.
Of course Oprah is going to call in and defend this guy. I hope you don't think she's actually going to admit to not doing her homework before raving about his book. She does have a reputation to uphold.
Lastly, let's not confuse making a decision with judging. I see and hear things every day that cause me to make certain decisions. That's not judging someone. Sobriety is more than just not drinking. Not drinking is the first step. As time passes, hopefully changes take place so that "not drinking," while remaining a priority, ceases to be the guiding light, and staying sober becomes the guiding light.. With sobriety comes serenity, which to me means that in spite of the fact that all hell is breaking loose around me, I'm calm in the belief that if I stay the course, I'll be alright. I'm able to laugh at myself(rule 62)and love others unconditionally. When I say someone is "dry," I'm not condemning the person, nor am I making a judgment. I'm merely making an observation based on information I have. I consider sobriety to be a state of healthy mind, body and spirit. That's my opinion and my call. I don't make excuses for myself or anyone else. If someone told me they thought I was just dry, I probably wouldn't worry about it, but if several people had the same observation, I'd surely investigate, especially if my sponsor happened to be in the crowd. It's been said that "words mean something." Words can't hurt me unless I allow them to hurt me. Unfortunately, in order to be honest with someone, I have to make an observation based on information I have and then relay it in words. This act, by no means says that I don't love the person, which is a decision I make on a daily basis; to love unconditionally to the best of my ability. That's why I can say with all honesty, that I love all of you, regardless of your sobriety or dryness, regardless of your opinion, or lack there of, of me and what I say. Today, I love me and even like me most of the time, and I believe that my Higher Power loves me because I continue to be blessed with another day, and another chance to do better than yesterday. I'm not judging Frey! I believe what I see and hear, and I just don't happen to want what he calls being sober and clean.
Of course Oprah is going to call in and defend this guy. I hope you don't think she's actually going to admit to not doing her homework before raving about his book. She does have a reputation to uphold.
Lastly, let's not confuse making a decision with judging. I see and hear things every day that cause me to make certain decisions. That's not judging someone. Sobriety is more than just not drinking. Not drinking is the first step. As time passes, hopefully changes take place so that "not drinking," while remaining a priority, ceases to be the guiding light, and staying sober becomes the guiding light.. With sobriety comes serenity, which to me means that in spite of the fact that all hell is breaking loose around me, I'm calm in the belief that if I stay the course, I'll be alright. I'm able to laugh at myself(rule 62)and love others unconditionally. When I say someone is "dry," I'm not condemning the person, nor am I making a judgment. I'm merely making an observation based on information I have. I consider sobriety to be a state of healthy mind, body and spirit. That's my opinion and my call. I don't make excuses for myself or anyone else. If someone told me they thought I was just dry, I probably wouldn't worry about it, but if several people had the same observation, I'd surely investigate, especially if my sponsor happened to be in the crowd. It's been said that "words mean something." Words can't hurt me unless I allow them to hurt me. Unfortunately, in order to be honest with someone, I have to make an observation based on information I have and then relay it in words. This act, by no means says that I don't love the person, which is a decision I make on a daily basis; to love unconditionally to the best of my ability. That's why I can say with all honesty, that I love all of you, regardless of your sobriety or dryness, regardless of your opinion, or lack there of, of me and what I say. Today, I love me and even like me most of the time, and I believe that my Higher Power loves me because I continue to be blessed with another day, and another chance to do better than yesterday. I'm not judging Frey! I believe what I see and hear, and I just don't happen to want what he calls being sober and clean.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
Originally Posted by Chabroso
No one, not anybody has the right to judge someone else's sobriety. Any person who states that a sober alcoholic is 'just dry' would be better served having a good look at themselves. Geez, talk about taking the inventory of others. I seriously doubt that the same alcoholic behaviour is expressed in a person who no longer drinks. Inhibitions that exist in a sober person are not often displayed in a person who is drunk.
About the book. Anyone who hasn't read it is in no position to judge it.
To those who decide not to read it due to the opinion of others,
perhaps a look at our ability to make decisions for ourselves, is warranted.
About the book. Anyone who hasn't read it is in no position to judge it.
To those who decide not to read it due to the opinion of others,
perhaps a look at our ability to make decisions for ourselves, is warranted.
giving an opinion and asking questions, searching for info.
Ps..I DID read the book.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Obvisiouly we call have an opion on someone.
Just I try to make mine as rational as possible. Its is very bad logic, dangerously so, to say "all non Islamics are the devil"...just as its bad logic to say
...someone is dry because they dont "work a programme".
That logic could well be sending this world into dust.
Just I try to make mine as rational as possible. Its is very bad logic, dangerously so, to say "all non Islamics are the devil"...just as its bad logic to say
...someone is dry because they dont "work a programme".
That logic could well be sending this world into dust.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by FriendofBill
Hmm.. seems observasion on a public figure who puts his sobriety in a book to sell is not up for discussion?
Who told you it's not up for discussion?
Or do you only want to hear opinions that align with yours?
Get it?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,955
Originally Posted by Music
You know what blows my mind? Some of you get your nickers in a not when you get a dose of honesty from someone on this forum, but insist on defending this guy, who has apparently not been quite as honest as people were lead to believe. I guess it depends on who the messenger is.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by Music
You know what blows my mind? Some of you get your nickers in a not when you get a dose of honesty from someone on this forum, but insist on defending this guy, who has apparently not been quite as honest as people were lead to believe. I guess it depends on who the messenger is.
Of course Oprah is going to call in and defend this guy. I hope you don't think she's actually going to admit to not doing her homework before raving about his book. She does have a reputation to uphold.
Lastly, let's not confuse making a decision with judging. I see and hear things every day that cause me to make certain decisions. That's not judging someone. Sobriety is more than just not drinking. Not drinking is the first step. As time passes, hopefully changes take place so that "not drinking," while remaining a priority, ceases to be the guiding light, and staying sober becomes the guiding light.. With sobriety comes serenity, which to me means that in spite of the fact that all hell is breaking loose around me, I'm calm in the belief that if I stay the course, I'll be alright. I'm able to laugh at myself(rule 62)and love others unconditionally. When I say someone is "dry," I'm not condemning the person, nor am I making a judgment. I'm merely making an observation based on information I have. I consider sobriety to be a state of healthy mind, body and spirit. That's my opinion and my call. I don't make excuses for myself or anyone else. If someone told me they thought I was just dry, I probably wouldn't worry about it, but if several people had the same observation, I'd surely investigate, especially if my sponsor happened to be in the crowd. It's been said that "words mean something." Words can't hurt me unless I allow them to hurt me. Unfortunately, in order to be honest with someone, I have to make an observation based on information I have and then relay it in words. This act, by no means says that I don't love the person, which is a decision I make on a daily basis; to love unconditionally to the best of my ability. That's why I can say with all honesty, that I love all of you, regardless of your sobriety or dryness, regardless of your opinion, or lack there of, of me and what I say. Today, I love me and even like me most of the time, and I believe that my Higher Power loves me because I continue to be blessed with another day, and another chance to do better than yesterday. I'm not judging Frey! I believe what I see and hear, and I just don't happen to want what he calls being sober and clean.
Of course Oprah is going to call in and defend this guy. I hope you don't think she's actually going to admit to not doing her homework before raving about his book. She does have a reputation to uphold.
Lastly, let's not confuse making a decision with judging. I see and hear things every day that cause me to make certain decisions. That's not judging someone. Sobriety is more than just not drinking. Not drinking is the first step. As time passes, hopefully changes take place so that "not drinking," while remaining a priority, ceases to be the guiding light, and staying sober becomes the guiding light.. With sobriety comes serenity, which to me means that in spite of the fact that all hell is breaking loose around me, I'm calm in the belief that if I stay the course, I'll be alright. I'm able to laugh at myself(rule 62)and love others unconditionally. When I say someone is "dry," I'm not condemning the person, nor am I making a judgment. I'm merely making an observation based on information I have. I consider sobriety to be a state of healthy mind, body and spirit. That's my opinion and my call. I don't make excuses for myself or anyone else. If someone told me they thought I was just dry, I probably wouldn't worry about it, but if several people had the same observation, I'd surely investigate, especially if my sponsor happened to be in the crowd. It's been said that "words mean something." Words can't hurt me unless I allow them to hurt me. Unfortunately, in order to be honest with someone, I have to make an observation based on information I have and then relay it in words. This act, by no means says that I don't love the person, which is a decision I make on a daily basis; to love unconditionally to the best of my ability. That's why I can say with all honesty, that I love all of you, regardless of your sobriety or dryness, regardless of your opinion, or lack there of, of me and what I say. Today, I love me and even like me most of the time, and I believe that my Higher Power loves me because I continue to be blessed with another day, and another chance to do better than yesterday. I'm not judging Frey! I believe what I see and hear, and I just don't happen to want what he calls being sober and clean.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Flippin' Ada!! Judging behaviour is SO much easier than judging people!!
Is saying something true when it isn't wrong? Yes.
Does it mean the person lying is a baddy? How the hell should I know?
Does it mean everything he's produced is worthless? I doubt that would be true of anybody.
Am I defending him? Who knows, I don't. I don't believe in goodies and baddies in the first place.
Is saying something true when it isn't wrong? Yes.
Does it mean the person lying is a baddy? How the hell should I know?
Does it mean everything he's produced is worthless? I doubt that would be true of anybody.
Am I defending him? Who knows, I don't. I don't believe in goodies and baddies in the first place.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 67
I have a strong opinion about the book and I want to write a persuasive post that convinces everyone to see the matter the way I do. Until now I could never see in myself the actor that is described after How It Works in Ch. 5 of the BB. I think I just saw part of him.
Instead of writing such a post and stepping on other people's toes I am going to let this matter go.
Instead of writing such a post and stepping on other people's toes I am going to let this matter go.
Living and Loving.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Saratoga, California
Posts: 475
Originally Posted by Leo_the_Cat
I have a strong opinion about the book and I want to write a persuasive post that convinces everyone to see the matter the way I do.
ROFL I love that... if you figure out a way to do that please let me know so I can lock you up! I would feed you... give you a nice litter box to doody in... and give you cable even... but to allow you out and about would be just too much. Life would be so boring if we all agree'd upon everything.
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