Dee74

welcome Adam10

D

Adam10

Hey Gracefuk123 and hello Dee74!

Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I did stop cold turkey. I didn't get any acute withdrawal symptoms (I didn't used to drink every day, so this doesn't surprise me), but PAWS hit like a truck around two weeks in. I used to drink around 4 times per week, 5 times sometimes during the pandemic. I drank for around 25 years, socially at first, but it was in the last 12 years or so that I began drinking at home too, and more often (which coincided with me working from home).

I've had issues with anxiety for years, but it's very hard to say if they are 'real' or were caused by my drinking to begin with. I was placed on an SSRI a few years ago, which I took for a year. Unfortunately, withdrawal from that drug was horrific, despite a very slow taper of two years. So my CNS had already had a rough time for several years before quitting alcohol.

Quitting caffeine really seems to have worsened things considerably. I want to do it to improve my anxiety. I suspect because caffeine has a powerful effect on dopamine and GABA etc., that removing it has destabilised my brain again, and it's going to need some time to adjust.

I'm definitely very oversensitive to stimulation. Hearing kids playing outside, and people on speakerphone causes great distress. That had improved somewhat before I quit caffeine, so it must be all linked.

The fatigue is frustrating too, as so many people keep saying 'exercise to feel better', but I can't. Sometimes I might feel like it, but I'll suffer for days afterwards.

I'm lucky my partner is supportive, emotionally and financially, as there's no way I'd have been able to hold down a job through this.

Thanks for explaining your experience, it's really helpful. I'll just need to hunker down and continue to plough through.

Asix9

Hello,Adam

I know exactly what you are talking about! Same like me! First months Anxiety like a hell. I was scared from people, situations and everything + The brutall depression , intrusive thoughts etc! After 3 monts of sobriety i realased that the coffeine was a big enemy and i stopped it.
And then and now at 20 months everything what gives me dopamine spike, after that i have a small anxiety attack. Of Course now is a million times better , but things like (nicotine, sugar, tv, music, movies etc.) And now when i smoke one cigarette , after that i am not okay. This will be my next battle .
Adam 7-8 months is a great achievement! Just Trust the process and don't drink. Give you another 7-8 monts and you will see the difference!

Adam10

Thanks Asix9,

Yes, it can be overwhelming and frustrating at times.

Dopamine does seem to have a very large part to play. My partner gave up alcohol at the same time as me but has suffered no symptoms at all, other than feeling a bit tired in the first month or so, despite us drinking very similar amounts.

Another difference is that is they never experience a long lasting 'buzz' from alcohol, and were always happy to stop/not drink at all. They also never had a buzz from caffeine, whereas I did. It does make me think that some of us have a much stronger dopamine reaction to these drugs, and our brains are more susceptible to being affected and rewired as a result.

rothmaninc

Lack of energy seems to be the gift that keeps on giving...16 months in and energy is a constant challenge....

BettyP

Welcome, Adam! 100% sounds like you're in the right thread. 8 months is definitely in the thick of it. I love Graceful's advice: "Does random stuff scare you? Things that you normally wouldn't even pay attention to? If you answered yes, then you're suffering from a PAWS episode." - absolutely this. If you get randomly freaked out doing anything that you know you're not afraid of, you're in a wave,
I have seen a lot of mentions about caffeine/coffee - I stopped drinking all caffeine early in PAWS because I was always super sensitive to it anyway, but if you can tolerate a little bit, I'd say switch to decaf, or drink decaf as the second cup, You can also cut full-strength coffee with half decaf - and I used to work as a barista and people would ask for this all the time and it's nbd to make a half-caf shot so don't feel bad asking for it if you drink coffee out.
The fatigue - - I actually felt the worst fatigue as I was getting toward the later phase of my PAWS. 18-24-30 months. Like my body was made of lead.
Exercise helps *sometimes* - but don't feel like you have to push yourself to work out like a maniac because it will not only not cure PAWS, working out too hard can actually trigger wave-like responses. Get *some* exercise and do not beat yourself up because you're not running marathons. When you're healed you will want to - and be able to - get more exercise. Think of it like coming back after an injury (because it is) - you can only do what your body will let you.
Hope everyone is hanging in there!! Just don't pick up - you'll get through this! After years of not being able to plan anything because I didn't know if I could handle it, I've started booking concert tickets and planning travel. I'm falling back in love with life, and I don't worry so much about PAWS most of the time. You will get better!

Adam10

Hey BettyP, thanks for your post!

Yes, I'm intent on hanging in there, I've come this far, and I'd never forgive myself for wasting all that time and effort now.

Honestly, I feel like I've been in a permanent wave since I quit. It's come and gone in intensity, but I certainly haven't had any windows. Hopefully, I'll get a glimmer of hope sometime soon.

I'm now nearly 6 weeks without caffeine. It's undoubtedly made my PAWS symptoms considerably worse, but I figure if stopping coffee causes such awful symptoms, it maybe wasn't the most healthy thing for me to be having to begin with. So I'm going to try and tough it out for a while longer.

I'm so glad you're feeling better after such a tough time, and it gives me hope that there may be light at the end of the tunnel, even if it's not visible yet.

BettyP

I felt like I had no windows until at least a year in - it was so bad. Do not be discouraged if you're not having any good days, it doesn't mean you're stuck that way, your brain is just coping with mass amounts of glutamate at the moment. It will adjust over time.
I think regarding the caffeine that the good outweighs the bad, that it would likely trigger worse anxiety, and. probably your withdrawal symptoms are bad just because your case is bad. I had a tendency to go over everything that did and didn't go in my mouth when I was feeling terrible, and the reality is that it's probably just your alcohol PAWS. Trust me when I say that when you do come out on the other side (which you will!) it will all make a lot more sense. You're just sort of trapped in an elevator somewhere, and when you finally get rescued you'll be able to understand where things broke down if that metaphor makes sense. :-)

Adam10

Thanks BettyP.

I think I may be slowly starting to come out of the other side of caffeine withdrawal. So fingers and toes crossed that particular burden will start to ease off now. I can say that while my sleep isn't always perfect, it's so, so much deeper since I quit caffeine. I've always been a very light sleeper, or so I thought. Hopefully getting better sleep will help my body rest and recover a bit better from other PAWS symptoms.

Trapped in an elevator is a really good metaphor!

rothmaninc

Have any of you had extended windows of stress as well as lack of energy around the 15-16 month period?

Graceful123

Yeah, that's pretty normal.

You're still roughly in the middle of your recovery.

The overall levels of stress and anxiety will decrease over time but you will have periods where it's better and periods where it's worse.
As somewhat of a veteran of PAWS, my biggest recommendation is to keep yourself occupied: lots of walks, take up sports or hobbies, clean, cook, whatever, just don't stay still.


Actually around the 12 month mark (not too much earlier than where you are at now) I had one of the biggest panic attacks I've ever experienced and a heightened anxiety level for like 4-5 days after. It was a bad week. What's really upsetting is that you keep thinking "12 months is so long! Why do I still feel like this?!"

So yeah, PAWS is a bad time.

Koninne

Yes, it's all pretty strange and unpredictable. I'm at the end of month four and have had three bad days in a row. I was barely able to perform and was extremely sensitive to stress and had a strange feeling in my head. As if the stress couldn't get away from you, the nights were bad too. This afternoon, out of nowhere, for no apparent reason, I suddenly felt much better. As if something happened in your head. I was able to work almost normally and have been stable and resilient so far, even with everyday problems. Of course, I hope that there will be a few good days again and that these fluctuations will become less severe in the next few weeks/months.

VG Koninne

rothmaninc

thank you Graceful 123... I have been a bit stressed due to personal family situations....I am hopeful that this too shall pass..

Adam10

I've also just had the most brutal few days of anxiety (or fake anxiety as I think of it).

It always starts with waking up at around 3-4 am for several consecutive mornings, as well as increased daytime anxiety, and usually culminates in a panic attack when in bed at night. My digestion always messes up at the same time, with stomach cramps and bloating.

I call it 'fake' anxiety because it doesn't feel like the real thing. For me, when I'm genuinely anxious about something, it always starts in my stomach, adrenaline release I guess, then makes my heart race etc.

PAWS anxiety is always on the 'outside' of my body, almost like my skin is getting a constant electric current passed through it. It's also persistent, nothing soothes it.

On a side note, I've decided to drink coffee again (one cup) for the foreseeable future, withdrawal from that combined with PAWS has been brutal, and not sustainable for me. I intend to revisit caffeine when I've recovered from PAWS.

Graceful123

Yeah, day time is the worst time for anxiety.
I haven't really understood why, I suspect it's because your brain becomes overloaded with stimuli (more people on the streets, you can see more stuff around you, etc.)
Mornings used to be brutal for me, unending anxiety to the point where I had to get my butt out of bed at 6 AM and go somewhere just to calm my nerves.

Anyways, it will subside and eventually go away but until that day, you are still in for a journey. Stay strong!

biminiblue

I still have morning anxiety on most mornings and I'm ten years sober. I had it as a kid, so in my case it's something biological. I just get up at 4AM. There is a cortisol spike right before waking for everyone, I just probably notice mine in an exaggerated way. I mean, a spike in energy is a good thing when waking, but I somehow learned to see it as dangerous or scary and then I start in with the cascade of catastrophizing or regret. I'm sure it's a learned behavior, but difficult to change.

To mitigate its hold on my day I get up and immediately start moving - sometimes it will be immediate running in place for maybe one minute. That always re-sets whatever is going on physically, but I am really careful to watch my thinking during that time. If I let my brain take over with fearful or negative thoughts it can set my day off to a bad start and that's difficult to straighten out. Mantras, prayer, reciting something...those things work for me when my mind is going ninety miles an hour with, "What ifs," and "Oh, nos."

Anxiety is one thing, but if I focus on it, it just gets worse. Distract distract distract.

Asix9

After the 18 month i am full with Stomach problems. Bloating, cramps, diarrea etc. Its not everyday, but its there. I dont know if its from the beach or from the ADs. Somebody with the same thing?

BettyP

What Adam said upthread - "I call it 'fake' anxiety because it doesn't feel like the real thing." - this is spot on for me. And should also be a dead ringer that it's PAWS. I have also always had anxiety, but PAWS anxiety is like being possessed - it's alien, and outside your body (even though it's coming from inside the house). There have been so many times that I've gone out to do something totally normal only to be overcome with anxiety, and it's like something I know I am not normally afraid of. It's just PAWS - somewhere in the brain processing, things are getting overloaded with too much info and sensory intake and the alarm bells start going off. Listen to them - not in a way that debilitates your life, but like if you can stop or leave, go ahead and do that. I had this fear that if I gave into my anxiety that I'd become a permanent shut-in and be stuck that way, which I think is conventional wisdom for treating normal anxiety. PAWS is a long-term temporary affliction, however, and you're not always going to feel so bad - - when it gets to be too much, dial it back and give yourself rest and space. When you're feeling better, you WILL go out and do all the normal things and you'll think to yourself "see? I'm fine, I'm not afraid of this thing..." You won't lose your freedom, you just have to wait for your brain to come back online :-D

rothmaninc

Can sex trigger a PAWS episode?

Adam10

This is so true.

With 'real' anxiety, it's often beneficial to confront it, force yourself to deal with it, and find relief by tackling it head-on.

PAWS anxiety is far more systemic and takes over the whole body, trying to force your way through it only makes things worse. A bit like trying to run on a broken leg, and hoping it will get better.

It's definitely difficult to do the opposite to what you normally would (and often what other people think you should) when dealing with it.