Graceful123

Oof, that sounds rough. I'm sorry you're going through that.

Panic attacks SUCK, period. 3 weeks into sobriety I got a panic attack that was so bad, I thought the world was ending. I can't even describe the sheer terror of withdrawal panic attacks that I got.

Those will go away in time (if it's PAWS related, which I suspect it is). Like I mentioned in the post on the previous page, your brain has gone haywire. I always imagine it as a game of tug of war, your brain was pulled towards the "happiness" end of the field by alcohol for years, so your brain produced a "sadness" team that was strong enough to counter. Now you took away the alcohol, all of a sudden the sadness team has zero opposition and it just went "WOOSH" and so your emotions are completely messed up.

It will take time. You got yourself in this position by continually poisoning your brain for a long time but there is no antidote to quickly balance out that brain chemistry, so your brain has to do it the long and hard way. Hence PAWS.

As someone who has been through this, I can tell you all your symptoms that are alcohol related will go away with time. But if you suspect there are physical or mental issues at play, this forum is not a substitute for trained specialists. We can only provide you with examples to support your stories and provide you with stories of success in the fight against PAWS.

Now, with regards to your particular symptoms 3 months into sobriety:
Anxiety and panic attacks: YES (notice the all caps), absolutely horrible anxiety and panic attacks, those came and went. Some days were good, others were just me counting down the seconds till bedtime because how much anxiety I had and how bad some panic attacks were.
36 months into sobriety: much better. I rarely get anxiety, I have 1 small panic attack maybe every 4-6 months, usually brought on by a tangible problem.

Mood swings: YES (notice the all caps again), awful mood swings throughout the day, one second I was feeling lethargic, another second I was happy as a clown, another second I was in overwhelming anxiety and depression.
36 months into sobriety: no mood swings, my emotions are dictated the same as any other person, some days are great, other days something happens in the family or on the job and my mood may not be so great, but that's actually normal for anyone.

Lastly: YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT DRINK while healing. Even if you are able to handle liquor sometime into the future (big if), while you are in the process of healing you cannot drink man! You will only make things worse. It's like taking a knife to a fresh and healing cut and saying "I can cut it just a little bit, it won't hurt".

Dee74

Welcome Koninne

D

Koninne

Thank you for the detailed answer and the welcomes. I am very certain that my symptoms are related to abstinence and confident that it will go away. Or at least bearable. Basically, I am currently hardly able to work. The resilience just isn't there. I can think badly at times. These, as well as other symptoms (headaches, neck pain, tingling in the legs, etc.), are intermittent and come and go. My therapist at the time completely rejected PAWS and said I can safely drink something. So doesn't really help. Even antidepressants didn't help me when I was sober for the first time, it probably just needs the long abstinence.

Thank you all and hang in there!

koninne

Graceful123

PAWS is not just a chemical issue. PAWS is also having to relearn to live in the real world without using alcohol as a shield.

Things and emotions that you wouldn't react to when drunk now scare you because you fully feel them.

So your doctor, who may have not gone through quitting alcohol, would not be able to understand you. Also if you told your doctor that you had an alcohol abuse issue and 3 months later he told you you're safe to drink, I think it's time to find a new doctor.

Koninne

I agree with them on everything. I also notice the differences to chemical fear, this diffuse fear for which I can find no reason. This often occurs after or during temptations to drink alcohol. And on the other hand, the fear of situations at work, but also in the social sphere. I'm quickly overwhelmed and would prefer to avoid it. I think small steps are the way to not overwhelm yourself and delay healing.

I haven't had my therapist for a long time, he couldn't help me. I think the topic of addiction wasn't that interesting for him and I didn't look at the alcohol either

BettyP

Welcome, Korinne! My hands-down worst symptom all the way through PAWS was anxiety, panic attacks and depersonalization. Before I got sober, I was aware that I was drinking more and more to keep from having panic attacks or anxiety, and when you're at that point I think basically your brain can't operate "normally" sober - it needs alcohol to give it all that GABA to calm down. It takes a long time for things to go back to normal. I think if you felt better after about a year last time you got sober, that's pretty encouraging and you will likely have a similar trajectory this time around. That said, nobody really knows. Way back at the beginning of this thread the OP relapsed and said PAWS round 2 was way worse than the first time, and it took longer to recover, so if you're not on quite the same path this time, don't be discouraged - you'll get there, just as long as you stay sober.
I'm at the same length of sobriety as Graceful - 36 months. My anxiety has finally mostly calmed down and I can juggle multiple jobs (I'm a freelance writer). I could NOT work in my first year of PAWS, and it was very white knuckle in the second year too. I got super lucky in a weird way that the world closed down in 2020 and I didn't have to work, because I could barely walk around the block!

Koninne

Hello BettyP and thank you for your message. You are right. I've been through it all before and now I'm almost at the beginning of my symptoms again. In retrospect, alcohol ruined a lot. I'm 50 now and I've been drinking way too much for about 30 years. After about 10 years I got the first symptoms that should have made me give up (slightly fatty liver, gastritis and a bad hangover) but I didn't make it. Due to my many absences from work and the wrong diagnosis by the doctors, I am already retired. In hindsight, all symptoms of PAWS. I earn some extra money with light jobs. This is all torture and shakes me deeply. What I find problematic is the fact that when I feel a little better between the waves, I feel the pressure to drink alcohol. Totally crazy! That would probably cost me the family that supports me a lot at the moment. I'm approaching my fourth month and I'm having three pretty positive days in a row right now. I'm holding on and when I'm fit again I hope to start again at work.
Koninne

Koninne

Incidentally, I have also been doing without coffee and excess sugar for almost two weeks. It's incredibly difficult for me, it was such a compensation for the addiction. The fear, especially the diffuse fear, has improved after initial difficulties. The triggers of parties or non-alcoholic beer cause mild lethargy and a hangover-like feeling at least the morning after. So doing without everything is probably the solution. A walk through the desert and grueling. I realize and know from experience that it's worth it. Everything will be fine!

Koninne

But maybe we all have to pay such a high price to stop it. I think I would have drunk myself to death at the end. A friend of ours did it when he was almost 50. He drank his esophagus to pieces. (unfortunately almost the entire circle of friends drinks a lot of alcohol)
Perhaps with a little gratitude and humility for life, the symptoms will be easier to bear.

Graceful123

@Koninne,

You've only been on this path for 3 months. Unfortunately it's unrealistic for you to expect to be 100% well right now after 30 years of drinking.
It will take time but you will find light at the end of this tunnel.

Healthy coping mechanisms help but at the end of the day it's only time you put into your sobriety which will make you heal. You will be back here in 33 months like Betty and I telling us stories of how much you've healed and how far you've come, I'm sure of it.

P.S. I've noticed you said something previously about casual drinking.

My STRONG suggestion is that you don't even consider casual drinking. However, if you are dead-set on trying casual drinking after fighting alcohol abuse, give it at least 2 years before you pick up any sort of alcohol. Your mind needs that time to heal and restore.

Anything less than 2 years and you're essentially just taking a knife to your fresh wound again.

Koninne

Hey Graceful123,

I have been dealing with the topic of PAWS for a very long time and I am very happy about this platform. The occasional drinking thing isn't an issue. It's no longer an option for me either, I've tried in the past and failed. And so I'm going through this with the symptoms for the second time and that's enough

Graceful123

I'm glad to hear that.

You will be happy again. It takes time for your brain to re-calibrate, but you will get there.

We are all here for you. Please continue sharing stories of your successes and failures.

Asix9

At almost 20 months, today in my head is how i was with my sleeping at the 1 year . I was not able to sleep after 8 in the morning , because of cortisol, adrenaline rushes. It was like my daily alarm. Last week i was 4 times at the beach ( i live near the sea) and it was not bad / i can somehow enjoy. Last year this was impossible , because of DP , Anxiety etc. I still have a lot to improve but I Trust the process!!

Everybody in recovery ........ now your best friend/ enemy is the time. I wish everybody smooth recovery!!

BettyP

Asix9 - I learned over time that those waves, the setbacks when symptoms got worse again out of nowhere, tended to lead to a window of something better after it passed. It's as though your brain muscles are straining to work on something hard, and then when it passes you get something back that you'd lost during PAWS. So while the waves really suck and are super demoralizing (I think I cried almost every time I had a bad wave thinking I'd never get better), there's usually a reward at the end of some kind. Hang in there! 20 months is amazing and you're doing so well :-D This time next year every day will be a beach day if you want it to be :-)

Koninne

Hello folks,
I passed 100 days of sobriety today. The bad days predominate, but I had several days in a row where I was roughly functioning a few days ago. Those are bright spots for me. Overall, the symptoms also change, some things get better and new things are added. Yesterday I was at a summer party and the morning after I was struggling with a hangover to the point of a slight feeling of withdrawal. All this even though I was completely sober. It is difficult for me to avoid sugar and coffee, but it is absolutely necessary. Small amounts of sugar greatly aggravate my symptoms. I get anxiety, restlessness, panic feelings followed by severe headaches. But there are also things that are getting better. I can sometimes solve problems better and have clear moments in my head. I also sometimes have the inner peace to just sit down and relax and consciously enjoy the time. All small rays of hope in my opinion.
Best regards Koninne

Caramel

^ Make sure you keep well-hydrated, Koninne, and that your electrolytes are in balance.
Best wishes

Graceful123

Early sobriety is awful. I know exactly how you feel. The worst part of it is you're thinking to yourself "it's been a whole 3 months, why do I still feel like dirt?". Believe me I know exactly what you're going through.

It will pass.

Here are a few suggestions: go on plenty of walks and change scenery often. Right now your brain is suffering and so a lot of old scenery may trigger negative thoughts for you. Don't stay at home too much if you can help it. If you HAVE to stay home, keep occupied, get hobbies, play video games, watch TV, doesn't matter.

The worst thing you can do for yourself right now is to stay alone with your thoughts.

Koninne

Thank you for the reply and yes I will take this advice into account. Since the symptoms vary so much, it's all difficult to grasp and it seems impossible to find a therapy for it. Every night is different and I'm almost curious how I wake up in the morning and start the day. But even that has nothing reliable to say. Sometimes fear strikes out of nowhere or my head feels completely foggy and confused, followed by a headache. Then thinking itself is very difficult and I feel as if I'm drunk. Then again phases of euphoria and excitement on the same day only a little later or earlier. There doesn't seem to be a system. I take it as it comes and make the best of it. I do some manual work a few hours a day and that sometimes works better and sometimes worse, but in general I think it's good for me.

Best regards Koninne

Adam10

Hello, all, London (UK) calling, my first post here!

It's something of a relief to read through the comments in this thread. I quit alcohol eight months ago, on January 1st. The PAWS I've experienced since have been horrific. I've rarely had any good days (maybe the odd okay hour or so) and I feel like I'm on a permanent roller coaster of symptoms that won't let up.

I'm so fatigued I can't even leave the house some days. If I feel a little better and do go outside, then it can often trigger another wave of symptoms if I do just a little too much. Likewise when visiting my therapist, sometimes just the act of talking for an hour can knock me out for a day or two. I tried a weekend away by the beach with my family a couple of months ago and lasted a day before I had to return home because of such bad anxiety (although I'd describe it more as a constant state of overwhelming agitation than regular anxiety). It seems like the normal method of doing things to make yourself feel better just doesn't work.

Emotions like anxiety, depression and irritability feel 'untethered'. Like they're not real emotions I'm feeling, but these extreme versions that appear out of nowhere, that then actively try and attach themselves to a person or situation around me. The most minor, ludicrous things cause me to completely flip out.

To try and help with the anxiety I quit caffeine five weeks ago, but this seems to have triggered a massive wave that's making me feel as bad as I did at the very beginning. Basically housebound. I've no idea if after five weeks I should just try to ride it out, or if I should drink coffee again (I used to have one cup a day).

I feel as if I'm physically and emotionally trapped in my body. Like I'm strapped in the back of an out-of-control driverless car.

Graceful123

Hey Adam,

Welcome to the front lines, soldier.

Nothing you say particularly surprises me. Seems like you had a very strong drinking pattern and you quit either cold turkey or very, very rapidly.

8 months is just the beginning of your healing. Your mind is absolutely devastated because not only did you remove that emotional shield but you now have to relearn to live in the real world and readjust to the fact that all your emotions feel real.

The anxiety will subside eventually but you're in for a fight. Feeling overwhelmed in large crowds (such as family gatherings) and away from your home (comfort zone) is normal, you will be battling that for some months to come.

Caffeine can aggravate the symptoms of anxiety (caffeine itself triggers fight or flight). Either drink decaf or switch to tea. You will be able to drink coffee again in due time. Here is a quick test that helped me. Does random stuff scare you? Things that you normally wouldn't even pay attention to? If you answered yes, then you're suffering from a PAWS episode. Your emotions will go up and down, be prepared that you may suffer overwhelming anxiety or even panic attacks from time to time while your mind heals.

Those will go away (unless you have underlying mental conditions).

Here is a rough timeline that I went through:

12 months into sobriety - felt much better but suffered daily low-dose anxiety and occasional uncontrolled panic attacks
24 months into sobriety - things were returning to normal. Working/keeping occupied kept me from feeling anxiety. Mostly anxiety would only creep in when I had nothing to do or I wasn't occupying my mind with things
36 months into sobriety - about 95-98% healed. Still dizzy while anxious and that rocky/boaty feeling when I am worried about something but overall back to my regular self.

I know these numbers are tough to hear but you have to soldier on and fight through this. You will feel better and you will be happy. Stay the path and don't pick up that drink.