Introvrtd1

For me when something like anxiety strikes in the grocery store…it’s very tempting to leave the cart half full of listed articles and just walk out….. thinking about that sense of escape seems like a welcome relief but I know it only leads to avoidance behavior and servers to strengthen every time i give in….no….

In spite of my feelings and fears I’ll bite my lip, pinch my wrist, distract any way I can to carry on and finish with my grocery shopping….

There comes a sense of relief and satisfaction once that task is complete…the drive home is much calmer than if I had walked out prematurely.

Congrats Laza for making it through and sharing this encouraging message…

BettyP

The grocery store is a tough one, Laza - it's not just you! I actually kind of enjoy grocery shopping and when I was in the throes of PAWS it was excruciating. I'll piggyback on what Introverd said about leaving -- my trick was to always remind myself in my mind that if I wanted to I could just walk away from the cart and leave at any time. I never did that, but it was (and still now and then is) my little coping mechanism. Most of the time, if things get tough we can just leave no matter what the situation. Just knowing that can be really helpful. ALSO - I found noise cancelling headphones to be extremely helpful and I highly recommend. I have NC ear buds but over-the-ear models would work as well (and maybe better). I would wear them without listening to anything - just blocking out the extra stimulation of the store sounds. Sometimes I'd wear them when I was driving too the same way - take the noise level way down, lower the stimulation. It really helps!
Just for encouragement, this past weekend I grocery shopped at three extremely busy Boston city grocery stores back to back with no problem :-)

Graceful123

Hello all!

It's been a while since I posted here.

It's good to see some familiar e-faces around here! Hope everyone is doing well.
I'm now approaching my 3 years since the beginning of this entire ordeal. I have had a few slip ups early into my sobriety (mainly because I thought I healed) but recovered nicely. I am happy to report I have not had a drop of alcohol since I last posted here!

It's been a journey. But so well worth it in the end. I lead a more or less normal life now. Sometimes my brain does get overwhelmed with things, but I have stopped having panic attacks (at least major ones) and no depersonalization/disassociation for a while now.

Oh and most importantly - no cravings anymore!

I am happy to say that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for all those who are just starting this journey.
Stay strong folks!

LazaB

So you drank in the past 3 years and you brain still continued to heal from PAWS ?
I don't plan on drinking but i need every information i can get at this time

Betty you are still a life saver with your posts

Dee74

Its good you have no plans to drink but I know my addictive voice would have stored this up for use later.

I wouldn't let your AV run too far with this idea Laza - I've seen many more posts saying how drinking again meant starting again with PAWS.

D

LazaB

I am only asking because i think that AA way of thinking that even if you have 10 years sober and you mess up once you start from zero is stupid , there is no way that you destroyed all your progress in one bad day.
I see your point though

biminiblue

I don't think AA has any discussion in any of its literature about PAWS. They believe ongoing abstinence forever is the solution but it's not to stave off PAWS, it's because alcoholism is a deadly affliction. Full Stop.

Some people do believe you lose your sober "time" and start at Day One on the count. I'm not sure what you're even talking about here, Laza.

I've heard of more than a handful of people who had been going to AA and decided to drink again and then shortly after that died from withdrawal or accidents or violence while under the influence. The reality of "PAWS" is that many people don't ever get to the PAWS point when they try to experiment with occasional drinking once that line has been crossed into dependence. PAWS is about perceived physical and emotional long-term sober problems, past the detox phase. It's not really a discussion point in AA, so not sure what you mean.

People die just by testing the theory that they can drink again, not to mention worsening withdrawals and the increasing probability of long-term disability....read that kindling article from the NIH.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6761822/

LazaB

That is what i mean , if you get 10437 days of sobriety and you get drunk once you need to start from zero , the belief that you " lost " your sober time makes no sense to me.

biminiblue

I think the day count is important.

At least, it's important to me. There have been times when that streak (or rather that Decision I made in 2014 to not drink) is what kept me from drinking.

Otherwise I can tend to rationalize that I didn't lose my Time and that starting over is no big deal. That could not be further from the truth. It took me seven years of drinking to quit again when I adopted that stance.

My sober Time is a huge source of relief and gratitude to me. If I have a day of drinking, I've broken my promise to myself. That is the biggest problem...AA is a spiritual program. Honesty is a big part of spiritual health. There are big consequences to breaking one's promise.

T.I.M.E. = Things I Must Earn.

VikingGF

You don’t lose what you learned in those sober days, Laza, but the count resets at Day 1. Otherwise, why count at all? For those of us who do keep track, whether daily, monthly or even yearly, that number has significance. It’s not sober days in total, it’s sober days IN A ROW.

LazaB

Thank you both for explaining it to me

BettyP

While I have never come across anything in AA that discusses PAWS by name, I've read quite a lot of the Big Book and done step work and back in the day they would call it "the jitters." I don't think people talk about it in meetings all that much, mostly because it just doesn't happen to everyone. But I have heard it discussed in meetings for sure - and I try to share about my experience in meetings so that if there are people out there suffering that don't know what the heck is going on that they can put a name to it.

I have thought lately about how PAWS has had a bit of a silver lining for me - that the sheer terribleness of the experience kept me from drinking. I know this isn't everyone else's experience, but I know that if I felt great after getting through acute withdrawal that I would 100% have gone back to drinking, and thought "I can stop anytime - I did it before!" (which was how i was living my life up I got PAWS, btw). I have seen a lot of people trying to get sober since I stopped drinking, and my heart aches for people who try and try and try only to be overcome by cravings. PAWS was awful, but I don't know if I'd have been any match for severe cravings - it's sort of a "what's worse?" kinda question.

Anyway, hope you all are well - - Graceful it's nice to see you check in, and I'm glad you are well!! :-D

Asix9

Hello , Warriors!
18 months clean from the poison..... but still with Paws The last couple of days i am so depressed, but i want to give you some update
1.Anxiety -better, but still there
2. Intrsusive thoughts - better, but still there ( This thing drive me crazy)
3. Depression/ Anhedonia - last days bad, but overall better.The last 6 months i have made such a good things for me (learning, training ,running , cleaning etc.)
4. Memmory problems/ concentration- better, but still there.
Sometimes i ask myself .... "Until When?What i am doing wrong? Why i deserve that? Will this last foverer? Maybe this is the new Normal for me " I still blame myself for the past 😪.
The Last couple of days i had conversation with my mother and she said so:
"You have made your choice(not to drink) and now the things are just secondary consequences. Maybe it hurts inside of you , but you are now 100 times better then before with the alkohol!" These words gives me a lot of Motivation!!
Now some positives:😀
1. I have some very good days in a row
2. 15 kilograms less ( in a very good shape) , a lot of compliments from the another people
3. Perfect Blood test ( Magnesium, Iron , B complex, vitamin D3 etc.)
I want to ask the Pawsy veterans here, will one job can give me benefits?I gave me a lots of time in peace, but now i want to work again. Am i scared?- yes.
Sorry if i am on my 18 months achievement, some kind of depressed and negative, but this is what i am feeling today
I wish everybody Smooth recovery!!

Asix9

I am still on AD's and they helped my a lot , but the biggest problem is PAWS

Graceful123

There isn't a metric for PAWS, unfortunately.

I know for a fact that I felt AWFUL for the next week after I dropped off the wagon. Huge emotional ups and downs and anxiety like you've never felt before.
I would say I probably slowed my healing if not partially reversed it when I drank.

That said I would HIGHLY recommend you do not even think about drinking, even a casual beer.

At the very least I can tell you that if you casually drink, you will NOT lose the cravings. I only started to lose craving for alcohol when I stayed completely sober for 1+ year.

Graceful123

Сите Българи заеднo!

Yep. This sounds in line with my experiences. 18 months was still up and down. Sometimes I would feel calm for a week, sometimes I had a week of anxiety. Some days were perfect, other days there was depression. But it will continue getting better and better as you stay sober.

Asix9

Сите Българи заеднo!

Are you from BG?

Graceful123

I am not! However one of my best friends is. I am also from one of the Slavic countries in central Europe so I can understand a little bit of Bulgarian (as well as Polish, Ukrainian and Russian.)

I hope you're having a wonderful day and that your recovery is getting stronger and stronger with each passing day!

rothmaninc

I was wondering if the veterans of PAWS could answer a few questions?
In the latter part of recovery 14-20 months did you ever/were you experiencing
1. A switch from being anxious and kind of quiet, to irritable and more vocal?
2. GI experiences from one extreme for a few days and then the other, not pooping enough, to emptying out?
3. Feelings that would closely mirror that of allergies, burning eyes, tired, agitation? I am unsure if I have allergies or if this is a byproduct of PAWS.
4. Still fighting Anhedonia?
5. When outside for several hours, an intolerance to heat and sun? I drink 6-10 16OZ bottles a day but still getting headaches
6. *****Can the above all be attributed to us damaging our system (immune) with meds, and or alcohol?

BettyP

Rothmaninc - the anhedonia hung on for me for a long time. So long that when I started to not feel it it was like a surprise to me. Like I was like "oh am I feeling excited about going out to see a movie and I'm not just forcing myself to do it?" That lasted for me well into 18 months and during waves in my second year. It'll come back.
I also had tons of GI problems and if I have a wave even now I'll have what you're describing - the back and forth between extremes. Remember that your whole GI is nerve tissue, and it's healing just like your brain. I knew I was getting better when I could eat certain foods again and just have some peace in my digestive tract. This also took more than 18 months - more like 2 years.
Anxiety was just a chronic constant for me, but I'd find I'd have outbursts of irritability and anger - I think it was PAWS but also just general frustration with being "this way" for so long. I think you get a little resigned to it at times.
Heat intolerance - I was really really sensitive to sunlight, and would find myself happy when it was a rainy day so that I wasn't overstimulated by the sun. I had a very hard time regulating my hot and coldness in my body, too, and if I got too hot I'd be sort of freaked out - I'm not sure if that's what you're describing.