To all the "I'm back" posters
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
What gets to me is watching someone fall apart and not being able to do a damn thing about it. I try to post what worked for me... but my recovery was a solitary process and I can't really affect that kind of change in another.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California
Posts: 13,044
I will have ten months sober on November 1st, and I am grateful that I had SR to come back to when I made the mistake to attempt moderation one too many times. I appreciated the kind posts, and the suggestions. Some may have been annoyed that I was posting that I was back again, and the nice thing about this site is you have the option not to read or post on any particular thread.
I always try to welcome newcomers, and reach out and offer support for those returning. One of my favorite quotes is by Margaret Mead. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has."
I would like to believe that SR is that group, which is why I will continue to post supportive and kind messages.
❤️ Delilah
I always try to welcome newcomers, and reach out and offer support for those returning. One of my favorite quotes is by Margaret Mead. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has."
I would like to believe that SR is that group, which is why I will continue to post supportive and kind messages.
❤️ Delilah
Matt M
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by August252015 
Many of us reject the premise of relapse as inevitable, outright.
I'm not sure why, because the statistics speak for themselves.
It's incredibly rare for someone with a serious alcohol problem to decide to quit and get it right first time.
Maybe 'inevitable' is too strong a word and should be swapped for 'extremely likely'.
But I think the people who relapse (ie the vast majority of people) need to know that they won't be judged negatively for doing so and not be treated like a failure.
Matt M
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by Bunny211
It's a miracle I've stayed sober for 17 months. I was in and out of the halls of AA for 2 years. It was not the kind words, gestures, keep coming back, "hi honey" or coddling that EVER helped me. One old-timer took me aside and said "Alcohol is kicking your a$$. You done yet?" He looked me straight in the eyes and said "You" and he pointed "You're going to die kid. You're going to die." I was shocked at his "insensitivity." I knew it was the truth though. I was dying. And he was kind enough to point out the elephant in the room. I'm forever grateful.
It's different for different people.
Some people are helped with the 'tough love' way of doing things, but for others it's disasterous.
So when it's people online who you know nothing about, it's always probably better to go down the understanding route.
Matt M
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by Dee74
I try always to remember I'm dealing with real people here.
I also try and remember that I was once there, too
For me, if I find myself getting drained, frustrated or bored or whatever else, I'm invariably forgetting one or both of those things...and I need to push my chair back and go for a ride, play some guitar or or do whatever I have to do to get over myself
D
I also try and remember that I was once there, too
For me, if I find myself getting drained, frustrated or bored or whatever else, I'm invariably forgetting one or both of those things...and I need to push my chair back and go for a ride, play some guitar or or do whatever I have to do to get over myself
D
I don't think it's about 'getting over yourself'.
If you get tired of reading about other people's problems then you can just stop posting or stop reading, it's simple.
I haven't posted here for several months, I've regularly gone several months without posting here then I have a spate of posting and stop again.
It all depends what frame of mind you're in I suppose.
I mean I've heard of people who have gone to AA group meetings every week for years.
If that helps them then that's good, but for me I can't think of much worse.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,443
I know you often see things differently to me Matt - no harm no foul.
It's the varied points of view that make SR the great place it is
I was pretty careful to speak for myself in this case tho...
D
It's the varied points of view that make SR the great place it is
I was pretty careful to speak for myself in this case tho...
D
Human
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 183
While it can be daunting sometimes to read so many stories about the wide variance of issues in sobriety and health across this forum, this is still an open and accepting place to those on their (sometimes very sideways) search for their better path.
It would break my heart to think someone came here after a failed attempt at sobriety, be it their first time or fiftieth, and felt because of the OP that maybe they had used all of their leads and opportunities up, truly reaching the end of their road. That fear of being judged can really do a lot of harm to someone already on the edge.
I much rather take a breather from the forum as necessary than think anyone felt turned away when there are so many openings for outlets here for them. I mean, okay we can't save everyone from the Internet or worry about every trigger possibility, but openly issuing judgement seems so counterproductive. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it!
It would break my heart to think someone came here after a failed attempt at sobriety, be it their first time or fiftieth, and felt because of the OP that maybe they had used all of their leads and opportunities up, truly reaching the end of their road. That fear of being judged can really do a lot of harm to someone already on the edge.
I much rather take a breather from the forum as necessary than think anyone felt turned away when there are so many openings for outlets here for them. I mean, okay we can't save everyone from the Internet or worry about every trigger possibility, but openly issuing judgement seems so counterproductive. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it!
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Mare Crisium
Posts: 1,930
I'd like to go off on a slight tangent;
no intention of changing the subject
or hijacking Trach's excellent thread.
Aside from the many "I'm back" posters,
(including myself several times),
I'd like to encourage the vast number
of non-members who are lurking here, to join SR.
You found this site for a reason.
An obvious one.
Initially, you may not know how to begin
or what to say. That's irrelevant.
If you so desire, just poke around and read.
Why not sign up, whether you lurk,
post, or become enlightened
by other members recovery plans?
There's a plethora of positive info here,
in addition to real life stories you may relate to.
Honestly, I wish I had joined sooner.
Don't hesitate to join this group of wonderful
and caring folks.
Eventually, you'll wind up helping others,
in addition to helping yourself.
My 2 cents.
no intention of changing the subject
or hijacking Trach's excellent thread.
Aside from the many "I'm back" posters,
(including myself several times),
I'd like to encourage the vast number
of non-members who are lurking here, to join SR.
You found this site for a reason.
An obvious one.
Initially, you may not know how to begin
or what to say. That's irrelevant.
If you so desire, just poke around and read.
Why not sign up, whether you lurk,
post, or become enlightened
by other members recovery plans?
There's a plethora of positive info here,
in addition to real life stories you may relate to.
Honestly, I wish I had joined sooner.
Don't hesitate to join this group of wonderful
and caring folks.
Eventually, you'll wind up helping others,
in addition to helping yourself.
My 2 cents.
paradox
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 665
Keep coming back !
"Keep coming back."
Says it all for me.
People who finally string together a few years worth of days . . .
often say that they heard the rest of us (in AA) carry on saying:
"Keep coming back."
And they did . . .
as many times as it took.
In this respect SR and AA are no different.
When any one or more of us post: "Welcome back . . ."
We mean it . . .
as many times as it takes.
Says it all for me.
People who finally string together a few years worth of days . . .
often say that they heard the rest of us (in AA) carry on saying:
"Keep coming back."
And they did . . .
as many times as it took.
In this respect SR and AA are no different.
When any one or more of us post: "Welcome back . . ."
We mean it . . .
as many times as it takes.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by MattM316
It's different for different people.
Some people are helped with the 'tough love' way of doing things, but for others it's disasterous.
So when it's people online who you know nothing about, it's always probably better to go down the understanding route.
Some people are helped with the 'tough love' way of doing things, but for others it's disasterous.
So when it's people online who you know nothing about, it's always probably better to go down the understanding route.
Each case is different. My book tells me to be kind and loving. Not being truthful is NOT being kind and loving. I'm not advocating telling a newcomer or someone just coming back what a piece of crap they are (they are beating themselves up enough) but I do not agree with putting frosting on sh!t either. I don't sugarcoat things that are life and death. That would be cruel.
Matt M
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by Bunny211
I disagree. I've seen people coddled so much that they die. People die. They DIE.
Each case is different. My book tells me to be kind and loving. Not being truthful is NOT being kind and loving. I'm not advocating telling a newcomer or someone just coming back what a piece of crap they are (they are beating themselves up enough) but I do not agree with putting frosting on sh!t either. I don't sugarcoat things that are life and death. That would be cruel.
Each case is different. My book tells me to be kind and loving. Not being truthful is NOT being kind and loving. I'm not advocating telling a newcomer or someone just coming back what a piece of crap they are (they are beating themselves up enough) but I do not agree with putting frosting on sh!t either. I don't sugarcoat things that are life and death. That would be cruel.
Well that's pretty much what I said - 'tough love' works for some people, but on the other hand, for some people, having someone being super nice and supportive to them helps them.
A lot of people simply react to 'tough love' with an "well **** you, you don't know what it's like" and it puts them back a step.
Nobody is saying anyone has to be untruthful.
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
For a board that helps so many that we all frequent for the same reasons one thing will always be true. No pair of shoes can ever stand in exactly the same place at the same time. Sobriety is a personal journey.
I can identify with feeling some dismay at those who leave, those who return, and those who relapse but I certainly can't judge. I've been there myself many times.
If you're frequenting the newcomers section and find any feelings of dismay try checking out other areas for a while. You can help people but you can't change them nor can you walk the path, they need to do that themselves.
Posting experiences and trying to give strength and hope are a must. Removal of any expectation from that post is the same. You can help but you cannot fix.
I can identify with feeling some dismay at those who leave, those who return, and those who relapse but I certainly can't judge. I've been there myself many times.
If you're frequenting the newcomers section and find any feelings of dismay try checking out other areas for a while. You can help people but you can't change them nor can you walk the path, they need to do that themselves.
Posting experiences and trying to give strength and hope are a must. Removal of any expectation from that post is the same. You can help but you cannot fix.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 2,849
The best pushes forward for me are the ones that have not beaten around the bush about the hard truths. The ones that put me in an uncomfortable place, or anger and resentment. Because I know that's what pushes me to drink, and I knew only I could change that thought process by examining my own feelings and thoughts about how I was reacting.
The ones who kept me slipping too far away were ones like Dee. I had been lurking around the corners of SR because I was drinking and ashamed and I admitted to it. I had posted so many "I'M BACK!" type threads I was just so over myself and my B.S.
Dee was the one who said something along the lines of, SR is here for those especially who struggle, maybe it would help me try posting some more?
I can't remember exactly what he said. But it was kind, and thoughtful.
I stuck around. I kept drinking. I posted and replied anyways. I drank less. Eventually I quit.
I remember the last AA night time meeting I went to, I was my first time at that meeting and I was introducing myself to a lady who was a long time AA member (we are an AA family, door and phone always open, 24/7, we grew up like that) She asked me after I told her about my life situation how long I'd been sober. I said a few hours. She told me I better get my sh*t together for the sake of my child. I was horribly offended and upset and cried in my van afterwards.
I was also told by my counselor that when my "controlled" drinking ramped up into binges, that if it got worse child services may have to get involved.
I needed the kindness and logic, to stay at least with one foot in the supportive place and to keep showing up even if I was drinking still.
I also needed people to tell me straight up too.
What it comes down to is we get out of it what we put into it.
And we have to learn that it's our choice how we act and react to whatever is outside of us.
Sometimes ANY situation could be triggering for anyone. Life can bring us all down. Dee was right, we gotta learn to step away and take a breather from whatever is bothering us. That's our choice.
I think part of learning to live life on life's terms is learning how to own our actions and reactions.
There is a middle ground to this, and I think if you find yourself seeing it in black and white, that's each of us make. But we all learn and grow from one another.
I think it's very important to stay and participate if you can muster it. I'm glad I did this last time or that would have been it for me too.
But if you can't, keep coming back. When you're ready. The doors are always open.
We never want to see anyone fail or hurt. Because we know, and we get it. We don't want anyone to go through what we've been through.
The ones who kept me slipping too far away were ones like Dee. I had been lurking around the corners of SR because I was drinking and ashamed and I admitted to it. I had posted so many "I'M BACK!" type threads I was just so over myself and my B.S.
Dee was the one who said something along the lines of, SR is here for those especially who struggle, maybe it would help me try posting some more?
I can't remember exactly what he said. But it was kind, and thoughtful.
I stuck around. I kept drinking. I posted and replied anyways. I drank less. Eventually I quit.
I remember the last AA night time meeting I went to, I was my first time at that meeting and I was introducing myself to a lady who was a long time AA member (we are an AA family, door and phone always open, 24/7, we grew up like that) She asked me after I told her about my life situation how long I'd been sober. I said a few hours. She told me I better get my sh*t together for the sake of my child. I was horribly offended and upset and cried in my van afterwards.
I was also told by my counselor that when my "controlled" drinking ramped up into binges, that if it got worse child services may have to get involved.
I needed the kindness and logic, to stay at least with one foot in the supportive place and to keep showing up even if I was drinking still.
I also needed people to tell me straight up too.
What it comes down to is we get out of it what we put into it.
And we have to learn that it's our choice how we act and react to whatever is outside of us.
Sometimes ANY situation could be triggering for anyone. Life can bring us all down. Dee was right, we gotta learn to step away and take a breather from whatever is bothering us. That's our choice.
I think part of learning to live life on life's terms is learning how to own our actions and reactions.
There is a middle ground to this, and I think if you find yourself seeing it in black and white, that's each of us make. But we all learn and grow from one another.
I think it's very important to stay and participate if you can muster it. I'm glad I did this last time or that would have been it for me too.
But if you can't, keep coming back. When you're ready. The doors are always open.
We never want to see anyone fail or hurt. Because we know, and we get it. We don't want anyone to go through what we've been through.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
MattM... I totally get you. I relapsed so many times and no matter how much I tried to justify it by saying I had no control over it, I had to finally accept that if I wanted to change I had to change. Plain and simple, I could not continue being the victim.
Let me just say that I think this disease has different root causes for different people and that some people might simply have a chemical dependence while others use it to cover underlying psychological problems, while still others may just be so deeply addicted that they can not, will not ever figure it out.
I had these little moments, usually around 3am when the alcohol had worn off, where I felt like a stranger to myself. I didn't like myself, I didn't know myself, I had to change or I would go crazy, and I just knew that being below the veil of consciousness because of substance use was going to prevent me from ever coming to know who I am and why I'm here. So it was very existential for me. It's not like that for everyone... others just may like getting drunk, pure and simple.
So our feelings about relapse will vary widely... and yes, our ability to stay sober and avoid relapse is going to differ. I do think that as long as you keep telling yourself you lack the ability to change you won't, with regard to anything you want to change in life. This time around was different for me because it was the first time I resolved to quiet the voice that tells me I am an alcoholic because I am and there's nothing I can do about it, and flip the script to say I used to be an alcoholic, but now I am in recovery and I will never go back. How does that script change? I decide to change it. Nothing else changes until I do.
Let me just say that I think this disease has different root causes for different people and that some people might simply have a chemical dependence while others use it to cover underlying psychological problems, while still others may just be so deeply addicted that they can not, will not ever figure it out.
I had these little moments, usually around 3am when the alcohol had worn off, where I felt like a stranger to myself. I didn't like myself, I didn't know myself, I had to change or I would go crazy, and I just knew that being below the veil of consciousness because of substance use was going to prevent me from ever coming to know who I am and why I'm here. So it was very existential for me. It's not like that for everyone... others just may like getting drunk, pure and simple.
So our feelings about relapse will vary widely... and yes, our ability to stay sober and avoid relapse is going to differ. I do think that as long as you keep telling yourself you lack the ability to change you won't, with regard to anything you want to change in life. This time around was different for me because it was the first time I resolved to quiet the voice that tells me I am an alcoholic because I am and there's nothing I can do about it, and flip the script to say I used to be an alcoholic, but now I am in recovery and I will never go back. How does that script change? I decide to change it. Nothing else changes until I do.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
Oh! I have also learned from spending time on this forum that I have to be discerning in what thread I go in to. The titles help me to know what might be encouraging or helpful to me, what might be an opportunity for me to help others, and what might end up being a trigger. A lot of times even at AA meetings where everyone is allowed to speak, you find you have to step out and have a smoke when the newbies get in to how badly they want to drink.. come back in near the end when all the newbies sit and listen to the veterans speak about their decades of sobriety
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by MattM316
I mean I've heard of people who have gone to AA group meetings every week for years.
If that helps them then that's good, but for me I can't think of much worse.
If that helps them then that's good, but for me I can't think of much worse.
locked up for vehicular homicide while drunk isn't worse?
Id rather see all them people sittin in a meeting weekly for years than out drunk and a risk to my family.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
I didn't see that part. Now that I did, I chuckled a little inappropriately.
Don't go to meetings if they make you feel worse, man. But figure something else out, and don't find any excuse to drink. It's nothing outside of the drinking, the drinking is the thing that makes everything worse. If you can not figure out what makes you better, rest assured you already know how to make things worse and that's by drinking.
Don't go to meetings if they make you feel worse, man. But figure something else out, and don't find any excuse to drink. It's nothing outside of the drinking, the drinking is the thing that makes everything worse. If you can not figure out what makes you better, rest assured you already know how to make things worse and that's by drinking.
Matt M
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by tomsteve
still drinking isn't worse?
locked up for vehicular homicide while drunk isn't worse?
Id rather see all them people sittin in a meeting weekly for years than out drunk and a risk to my family.
locked up for vehicular homicide while drunk isn't worse?
Id rather see all them people sittin in a meeting weekly for years than out drunk and a risk to my family.
Well I don't drive thankfully so that side of things has never been an issue for me.
But again, it's not for everyone.
Just like some of us get joy from different films and music, some of us don't get any joy or help out of group meetings.
When I had relapse prevention meetings in the past I found that the one-on-one's I had helped me a great deal more than the group meetings. So much more.
This is going to sound incredibly selfish, but at the end of the day it's my problem I want to deal with and sort out, not anybody else's.
I get that other people have a similar problem but I don't want to spend years hearing them talk about it.
I have been to group meetings before and I'm not against going to some again, especially as I now have a friend in a similar boat.
But I also figured out a while ago that it's myself and myself alone who can sort this problem out.
But again, that's not for everyone, we are not all the same. For many people the group sessions really help.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by MattM316
I don't understand why people find the returners 'frustrating' considering the vast majority of people with an alcohol problem relapse and groups like AA have an incredibly low success rate (between 5 and 10%).
how in the hell do you get a success rate? someone goes in and out of ANY recovery program, yet dies 1,3,5,10 years or even 10 days sober- is that successful??
every single person here- no matter what recovery method they chose- is 100% successful if they lay there heads in bed tonight sober. they are 100% successful today.
because all we have is today.
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