Counting Sobriety Days Harmful For Some??
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by Tazman53 
Tib I would love to know where the rigidity is in AA?
One does not have to pick up a single chip to be in AA and there is not a person assigned to keep track of any ones sobriety.
The main reason for picking up chips in reality is not for the person picking up the chip, it is for the newcomers to show them that there is hope and that there are people who can go 30, 60, 90 days without a drink and to see that there are people that can go 10 years.
To me a chip is not for me, it is for the person who is hurting so bad for a drink they can taste it, yet hurting so bad from drinking that they want to stop.
<snip>
Tib have you actually seen judgement in AA? I sure have not, I have seen compassion, understanding and many hands reaching out to help a person back up. I have never seen a person shunned or disrespected for a relapse or anything else.
<snip>
One does not have to pick up a single chip to be in AA and there is not a person assigned to keep track of any ones sobriety.
The main reason for picking up chips in reality is not for the person picking up the chip, it is for the newcomers to show them that there is hope and that there are people who can go 30, 60, 90 days without a drink and to see that there are people that can go 10 years.
To me a chip is not for me, it is for the person who is hurting so bad for a drink they can taste it, yet hurting so bad from drinking that they want to stop.
<snip>
Tib have you actually seen judgement in AA? I sure have not, I have seen compassion, understanding and many hands reaching out to help a person back up. I have never seen a person shunned or disrespected for a relapse or anything else.
<snip>
I have been attending regular AA meetings for the last 4 months but I am not worthy of sponsorship because I am (in a member's own word's) "a wethead like all newcombers with less than one year of sobriety". My one, brief sponsorship experience involved items being "borrowed" from my home before my sponsor stopped going to meetings and terminated contact with me and AA all together. She still doesn't answer her phone. I just pray she is all right.
Since then I have been without a sponsor, listening to everyone's great stories of sobriety with the help of their "higher power and their AA friends and sponsors".
I have phone numbers from people - they never answer when I call. I've always been active in my church and I pray several times a day as I pray the "liturgy of the hours". Since I've joined AA I've added meditations from their literature to my daily catholic prayer cycle.
Before you say I'm too needy I should add: I rarely speak in meetings, and I only call the few numbers that I do have during reasonable hours. Usually my attempts to call are not to say "I need help", but are to engage people into real friendships by inviting them out for a meal or for coffee before or after a meeting. Even if I do need help, I'd like to show a mutual interest in their needs as well - after all, AA is a fellowship.
So far though, I attend meetings as a "newcomer": without guidance and alone. People say "hi" to me and tell me to "keep coming back" but for how long? I've been showing up at these meetings daily for 4 months now. Don't they realize that I'm serious?
When I ask people with long term sobriety if they want to sponsor me, they tell me they're not accepting new sponsors. I hear all these stories about people here and elsewhere who had someone really ... reach out to them... nobody has bothered with me. The best I have gotten is advice to quit my profession (I'm in veterinary school) because I'm going to kill some kid's puppy when I show up to work drunk.
I like AA and what it has to say. I love how it builds communities. I just wish I could figure out the secret passcode or whatever it is you need to know to get involved because so far I'm an outsider. I wish I knew what I was doing wrong.
-e
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fluttering About
Posts: 3,760
Hi Kurt
That does happen smetimes--I went for one and a half years without one. i hung on to this program with a death grip. It will happen. Like Carol said. It is important to try new meetings.
I am glad you are here and thank you for sharing. There is no pass word--There is no code, sometimes clicks but I wouldn't want what the clicks have anyway. AA--just like my HP is meant to be all inclusive--NEVER EX clusive
That does happen smetimes--I went for one and a half years without one. i hung on to this program with a death grip. It will happen. Like Carol said. It is important to try new meetings.
I am glad you are here and thank you for sharing. There is no pass word--There is no code, sometimes clicks but I wouldn't want what the clicks have anyway. AA--just like my HP is meant to be all inclusive--NEVER EX clusive
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
I don't count the days any more becuase my arss ain't
fall'in off anymore. Plus I have 10 more years
to go to get a chip that I havn't recieved before.
So yeah...it's quility and not quanity for me.
I did manage a little collections of 1 day chips and
30 days chips early on. I'm a collector , anyhow.
i didn't really want to add another 1 year chip to my
collection, but by the grace of god I get to have 2.
God loves me so..so much i get to have 2 of 2years.
I have one of those 11 years chip, but the one
I value the most is that plastic 1 day chip after
I relapsed. I had to earn that bad boy.
I dunno...it bounced around inside my head
for 2-3 weeks. After all I was just slipin n sliding.
I just got drunk ...I didn't do any meth (my drug of chioce).
Nothing bad happened.
And no one knows or has to know.
But damn it......I did.lol
The sheit was starting to get to me.
So why would it be so important for me to tell those
90 days wonders F2F ? Or rather why don't I have the balls
to admitt the simple truth..They're just 90 days wonders
and most of them would never hang around anyways.
After all , i didn't give a rats arss one way or the other
what peaple thought of me when I decided to take a drink.
Perhaps there was more progress I needed to make.
Courage....couage is not without fears.
It's when I face my fears with all the funkie feelings
inside of me that I have courage.
I had to do what was right 4 me.
With the ESH I gain from that....I had the courage
to face other issues.
So there you go, I'm not counting the days...it's quality.
You can never make a wrong decision.
In a sense. Whatever wrong deciosions you make
leads you to the right decisions.
The processs....the process , the process of elimination.
fall'in off anymore. Plus I have 10 more years
to go to get a chip that I havn't recieved before.
So yeah...it's quility and not quanity for me.
I did manage a little collections of 1 day chips and
30 days chips early on. I'm a collector , anyhow.
i didn't really want to add another 1 year chip to my
collection, but by the grace of god I get to have 2.
God loves me so..so much i get to have 2 of 2years.
I have one of those 11 years chip, but the one
I value the most is that plastic 1 day chip after
I relapsed. I had to earn that bad boy.
I dunno...it bounced around inside my head
for 2-3 weeks. After all I was just slipin n sliding.
I just got drunk ...I didn't do any meth (my drug of chioce).
Nothing bad happened.
And no one knows or has to know.
But damn it......I did.lol
The sheit was starting to get to me.
So why would it be so important for me to tell those
90 days wonders F2F ? Or rather why don't I have the balls
to admitt the simple truth..They're just 90 days wonders
and most of them would never hang around anyways.
After all , i didn't give a rats arss one way or the other
what peaple thought of me when I decided to take a drink.
Perhaps there was more progress I needed to make.
Courage....couage is not without fears.
It's when I face my fears with all the funkie feelings
inside of me that I have courage.
I had to do what was right 4 me.
With the ESH I gain from that....I had the courage
to face other issues.
So there you go, I'm not counting the days...it's quality.
You can never make a wrong decision.
In a sense. Whatever wrong deciosions you make
leads you to the right decisions.
The processs....the process , the process of elimination.
I stopped counting after 30 days.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,622
I'm a bit upset. No one has ever given me a chip. I want my chip!!!! 
Are chips only for Americans?
That AA group you found sounds really bad Kurt. I guess there must be some. I had a bit of wierd feeling in my first one. If it wasn't for a nice woman there, I would never have gone back. That is just icky for you.
We know you are seious hunny and I am mad with them for being mean to you. ((((((((((Kurt))))))))))
Are chips only for Americans?
That AA group you found sounds really bad Kurt. I guess there must be some. I had a bit of wierd feeling in my first one. If it wasn't for a nice woman there, I would never have gone back. That is just icky for you.
We know you are seious hunny and I am mad with them for being mean to you. ((((((((((Kurt))))))))))
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Colorado Springs CO
Posts: 889
Well, if you drank you drank. That's what alcoholics do. You might be able to fool other people, but you'll know what you did. I'm guessing chips and sober time were not quite such a big issue before you drank again. Think you might be judging others to compensate for how you feel (not that I have any experience with that 
). Life is depressing, humiliating and heartbreaking sometimes whether you drink or not. Now are those feelings helpful? Not many people get this the first time or two. Sometimes I catch myself feeling weak for going out 12 years ago until I remind myself how silly and counterproductive entertaining those thoughts is. Maybe it's time to examine why you drank, see how you can work a better program, get on with it and not get hung up in day counting, your days or other's days. You'll probably feel better down the road and learn invaluable lessons to pass on to others.
). Life is depressing, humiliating and heartbreaking sometimes whether you drink or not. Now are those feelings helpful? Not many people get this the first time or two. Sometimes I catch myself feeling weak for going out 12 years ago until I remind myself how silly and counterproductive entertaining those thoughts is. Maybe it's time to examine why you drank, see how you can work a better program, get on with it and not get hung up in day counting, your days or other's days. You'll probably feel better down the road and learn invaluable lessons to pass on to others.
Last edited by collinsmi; 03-10-2007 at 03:25 AM. Reason: clarity
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,415
Bless!
Pilgrim, you can download cybriety chips if you like - just Google it.
Most of the meeting I've been at it's either a round of appluase or a cake for those milestones. I've not seen chips being handed out in the UK. Maybe someone will tell us different!
I didn't count for many months. I think I was kinda scared that I might break the spell somehow!
I like what CarolD so often says. I count my own time. It's not my place to count others, or to tell them how to count. That seems consistent with the spirit of the programme.
Sorry you're not getting what you think you deserve from the programme, Tiburon and Kurt. In my experience the fellowship isn't there to fix me. It's there to show me how to fix myself. If I choose not to leanr from the people in the fellowship who seem to have the recovery that I want - well, that's my responsibility. The BB tells me - my condition is one of self-centredeness. I won't recover from that by being more self-centred.
Pilgrim, you can download cybriety chips if you like - just Google it.
Most of the meeting I've been at it's either a round of appluase or a cake for those milestones. I've not seen chips being handed out in the UK. Maybe someone will tell us different!
I didn't count for many months. I think I was kinda scared that I might break the spell somehow!
I like what CarolD so often says. I count my own time. It's not my place to count others, or to tell them how to count. That seems consistent with the spirit of the programme.
Sorry you're not getting what you think you deserve from the programme, Tiburon and Kurt. In my experience the fellowship isn't there to fix me. It's there to show me how to fix myself. If I choose not to leanr from the people in the fellowship who seem to have the recovery that I want - well, that's my responsibility. The BB tells me - my condition is one of self-centredeness. I won't recover from that by being more self-centred.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Try as I might I can't seem to find anything in the Big Book that mentions a darn thing about counting days or sobriety chips. It's not in there.
You are sober Tib and going forward. That's all that matters. Do not let a slip deter you from sobriety. Getting/staying sober is the point..not how much time you've "racked up" or how many chips you have. If that is what the program is reduced to... I got a problem with that.
From my understanding, AA does its darndest to be a flexible and as all inviting as it possibly can. I've heard..the program won't fail you, but the people might. I believe that. I truly appreciate the community and support I receive from AA but there are some aspects and some people I don't spend a whole lot of time mulling over. I take what I need and leave the rest.
You are sober Tib and going forward. That's all that matters. Do not let a slip deter you from sobriety. Getting/staying sober is the point..not how much time you've "racked up" or how many chips you have. If that is what the program is reduced to... I got a problem with that.
From my understanding, AA does its darndest to be a flexible and as all inviting as it possibly can. I've heard..the program won't fail you, but the people might. I believe that. I truly appreciate the community and support I receive from AA but there are some aspects and some people I don't spend a whole lot of time mulling over. I take what I need and leave the rest.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
As some SR members are discussing AA chips
on this thread...
I went over to AA and added this info..
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1241564
Just in case anyone is interested
And anyone can order chips and medallions on line
without a day of sobriety,
Google has sites ... But
please do not add commercial links here!
Sharing them in PM is ok.
on this thread...
I went over to AA and added this info..
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1241564
Just in case anyone is interested
And anyone can order chips and medallions on line
without a day of sobriety,
Google has sites ... But
please do not add commercial links here!
Sharing them in PM is ok.
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by paulmh
Bless!
Sorry you're not getting what you think you deserve from the programme, Tiburon and Kurt. In my experience the fellowship isn't there to fix me. It's there to show me how to fix myself. If I choose not to leanr from the people in the fellowship who seem to have the recovery that I want - well, that's my responsibility. The BB tells me - my condition is one of self-centredeness. I won't recover from that by being more self-centred.
Sorry you're not getting what you think you deserve from the programme, Tiburon and Kurt. In my experience the fellowship isn't there to fix me. It's there to show me how to fix myself. If I choose not to leanr from the people in the fellowship who seem to have the recovery that I want - well, that's my responsibility. The BB tells me - my condition is one of self-centredeness. I won't recover from that by being more self-centred.
But I do go back so obviously I get something and that something is that even though I don't have the same closeness and fellowship I see so many others having - I still learn the tools of sobriety. And that's the whole point right? There's nothing I particularly "want" or "expect" from AA, but I would like to have an enjoyable experience at meetings. I would like to feel a bond of friendship with the people there that goes beyond "we sit in the same room every night for an hour".
I do not think these desires are unreasonable or self-centered. I am not saying "there are things that everybody else has that I want and deserve too but didn't get oh woe is me I think I'll go drink". The community created by AA is one of the coolest things about it. I want to participate fully.
So perhaps you misunderstand me - I was not complaining, but simply saying I understood how Tiburon felt. I am not treated poorly I just feel ... I think "left behind" would be the best way to put it. Everyone is "trudging the road of happy destiny" together and I'm running behind going "hey guys, wait for me!"
As for finding new meetings. There are lots of meetings where I live at lots of different times and I've attended most of them to get a feel for how they work and the different people who attend. I have my favorites and a few that I don't enjoy at all. I try to go to one everyday if my school schedule allows for it. When we get into heavy exams - I pick my 3 favorites and attend them.
For instance, there is one meeting I've been to a couple times which is really amazing - everyone there has been sober for 10 years or more and they always have these incredible revelations about everything. I only ever go to listen because... What the hell have I got to say to them? There's another meeting with a long preamble in the beginning about who can talk and who can't - I never feel comfortable at it and it always begins with a long silence which I think is people figuring out if they are allowed to talk or not. There are several evening "candlelight" meetings which I find very relaxing and try to attend regularly. I still go to the weekly "beginner's meeting".
So I have lots of options and people recognize me. Something's kept me from "getting in" though and I don't know if it's me or the community here.
I think I may have a solution though. Yesterday I was accepted into a student externship at a clinic in Chicago. So I'll be moving there in June. If I don't have a sponsor here by then - my mom, who is the secretary for her club in Chicago is going to introduce me to people she thinks might be good. Then I can talk to them and they can see if they're interested. I'll be there all summer and it's only 2 hours away during the school year. I'm willing to go with whatever works.
-e
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by tiburon88
I posted this topic in the Alcoholism thread and not 12-step support thread for a reason. I am grateful that I received a few responses that have helped me. I should of known that there are 12-step bullies on the internet as well as in "meetings." I find many people use their sober time as weapons to make their ideas more valid than the lowly "newcomer." I think I would rather be a alcoholic/junkie living in an alley than what some "old-timers" have. I give up on the "steps" and "wonderful" world of 12 step recovery. However, I live in the U.S. where 95% of treatment centers use the wonderful 12 step model and where it's hard to find support for those "poor lost souls" who don't follow the rules and regulations of AA society.
I just checked the LifeRing meeting list and they have a meeting in the Chicago area now. It might be worth checkin' out.
http://www.unhooked.com/meetings/meetings.html#5
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
So if all i had to do was just not drink then what's all the %$@# BS
about working the steps this way and that way all about.
Hell... why even work the steps ?
Why even share or discuss anything ? ESH...would be piontless and a waste
of time.
Hell... why even go to a damn meeting, If all I'm going to say is
"I didn't drink today" Here's your damn court cards and let's go home.
Yes..it's a program of suggestions....
it's also suggested that you strap on a parachute to ur arss too,
if you decide to jump out of an air plan.
Why even attend AA and go through the revolving door routine.
or waste your time driving across town
save your gas money.
Just stay home or do whatever you do and don't drink or drink when ever the hell you want.
You'll be sober the next day anywho.
No ..I'm not counting the days...
But a relapsed is a relapsed, you can suger coat it all you want. Give it whatever spin you want
It's still a relapsed.
about working the steps this way and that way all about.
Hell... why even work the steps ?
Why even share or discuss anything ? ESH...would be piontless and a waste
of time.
Hell... why even go to a damn meeting, If all I'm going to say is
"I didn't drink today" Here's your damn court cards and let's go home.
Yes..it's a program of suggestions....
it's also suggested that you strap on a parachute to ur arss too,
if you decide to jump out of an air plan.
Why even attend AA and go through the revolving door routine.
or waste your time driving across town
save your gas money.
Just stay home or do whatever you do and don't drink or drink when ever the hell you want.
You'll be sober the next day anywho.
No ..I'm not counting the days...
But a relapsed is a relapsed, you can suger coat it all you want. Give it whatever spin you want
It's still a relapsed.
Last edited by SaTiT; 03-10-2007 at 05:51 PM.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 24
After scanning through all these posts on chips and celebrating continuous sobriety, it seems to me some people may have some latent, underlying or subconscious issues that need some resolve. It also seems to me that if someone hates keeping track by counting up, because they see it as counting down to when they fail, well...I just don't understand it; you've already planned to fail?
And I know this is a touchy subject, but one of the biggest sensations of relief I had when I became sober and that I enjoy every second since, was the weight or not having to lie anymore being taken off. Not even to others, but to myself. I literally can breathe easier and my mind and conscience feels clearer. And for point, as an alcoholic, I often confused lies with rationalizations and rationalized my lies to justify my behavior. I'd waste time, energy and thought trying to figure out a way to be "deceptive" but not really "lying." Whatever...it's all the same. Thank God I don't have to do that anymore-I hated it then, and REALLY hate it now.
Personally, I kept track of my days sober and picked up chips for the first 90, and I think picked up a year chip. For me, it was to confirm I had actually made it another day-a true miracle for someone who previously couldn't IMAGINE going more than 2 or 3 days without getting wasted. Much less a week, and to make it to a month, then two, and three...Holy crap! I was doing it. And to be able to stand up and get a chip and hug at a meeting was like winning a gold medal at the Olympics. It was an award, and I loved having a stack of them. For me it has been like pushing a freight train...once I had a few months under my belt, and certainly when I hit 1 year, then 2 years, it mattered less to me-I don't obsessively keep count anymore (although I could shoot off the # of days in a second if asked) because the momentum is under way.
I guess it's another one of those things: use it if it helps you, move on to something else if it doesn't, but don't waste your own and everyone else's time lying about it.
And I know this is a touchy subject, but one of the biggest sensations of relief I had when I became sober and that I enjoy every second since, was the weight or not having to lie anymore being taken off. Not even to others, but to myself. I literally can breathe easier and my mind and conscience feels clearer. And for point, as an alcoholic, I often confused lies with rationalizations and rationalized my lies to justify my behavior. I'd waste time, energy and thought trying to figure out a way to be "deceptive" but not really "lying." Whatever...it's all the same. Thank God I don't have to do that anymore-I hated it then, and REALLY hate it now.
Personally, I kept track of my days sober and picked up chips for the first 90, and I think picked up a year chip. For me, it was to confirm I had actually made it another day-a true miracle for someone who previously couldn't IMAGINE going more than 2 or 3 days without getting wasted. Much less a week, and to make it to a month, then two, and three...Holy crap! I was doing it. And to be able to stand up and get a chip and hug at a meeting was like winning a gold medal at the Olympics. It was an award, and I loved having a stack of them. For me it has been like pushing a freight train...once I had a few months under my belt, and certainly when I hit 1 year, then 2 years, it mattered less to me-I don't obsessively keep count anymore (although I could shoot off the # of days in a second if asked) because the momentum is under way.
I guess it's another one of those things: use it if it helps you, move on to something else if it doesn't, but don't waste your own and everyone else's time lying about it.
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 773
I believe that I need to be honest with myself and do what will help me in recovery. I don't need to be honest with AA folks. The folks that I run across are way too judgemental.This is between my higher power and myself. I am glad I did not share this "relapse" as many would call it with group members. May 10, I will be picking up my 1 year chip and cake!!! In the mean time, I will be looking at other recovery options and encourage others who feel like myself to do the same.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 595
It sounds like some folks here have their panties in a wad over the whole chip/AA thing. The bottom line is that the people who wrote the Big Book clearly state that this was the way that worked for them. They numbered only 100 when the book was written. It is also said not to ignore other ways of getting sober. They suggest talking the clergy, physicians, and others who want to help. AA was my choice but in no way does the program of AA demand that it's "my way or the highway."
I liken AA meetings to services at church. We all know that we're all fallible. The reason why AA gets a bad name has nothing to do with the program or suggestions as outlined in the Big Book of AA. It is clearly the people in the meetings that can make it friendly in an AA meeting or make it a load of crap. The rules and regulations that each group sets up have nothing to do with AA. Most of the time it's the egos of the people running the meetings that ruin it for everyone. Many people in AA love to hear themselves talk. They want to run the show. If you want to know what that's like, read the part of the book after "How it Works." It talks about what happens when we try to run the show. As I've said before, there are people here and at AA who have no desire whatsoever to stop drinking. There are those who come just to make fun of the poor souls trying to rebuild their lives. There are those who are predators, looking for the wounded lambs. There are those looking for financial handouts, nothing more. There are those that are looking for the warm fuzzies in between their "relapses." There are those that are lookin' for love in all the wrong places, looking for boyfriends, girlfriends, someone who'll cook for them or someone who they can abuse sexually. And there are those that sincerly desire to change their way of life and be free from the bondage of alcoholism and themselves.
People, please remember that AA and this board are but a microcosm of the world we live in. No one has cornered the market on recovery. There have been many times when I've warned newcomers in AA to take very special care when it comes to sharing their secrets or picking a sponsor. Remember, we are trying for progress, not perfection.
If there are any bullies/bigshots on this or any other recovery site, they are sick people who need help. At the same time, no one has the right to impose their way of life on others.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong?!
I liken AA meetings to services at church. We all know that we're all fallible. The reason why AA gets a bad name has nothing to do with the program or suggestions as outlined in the Big Book of AA. It is clearly the people in the meetings that can make it friendly in an AA meeting or make it a load of crap. The rules and regulations that each group sets up have nothing to do with AA. Most of the time it's the egos of the people running the meetings that ruin it for everyone. Many people in AA love to hear themselves talk. They want to run the show. If you want to know what that's like, read the part of the book after "How it Works." It talks about what happens when we try to run the show. As I've said before, there are people here and at AA who have no desire whatsoever to stop drinking. There are those who come just to make fun of the poor souls trying to rebuild their lives. There are those who are predators, looking for the wounded lambs. There are those looking for financial handouts, nothing more. There are those that are looking for the warm fuzzies in between their "relapses." There are those that are lookin' for love in all the wrong places, looking for boyfriends, girlfriends, someone who'll cook for them or someone who they can abuse sexually. And there are those that sincerly desire to change their way of life and be free from the bondage of alcoholism and themselves.
People, please remember that AA and this board are but a microcosm of the world we live in. No one has cornered the market on recovery. There have been many times when I've warned newcomers in AA to take very special care when it comes to sharing their secrets or picking a sponsor. Remember, we are trying for progress, not perfection.
If there are any bullies/bigshots on this or any other recovery site, they are sick people who need help. At the same time, no one has the right to impose their way of life on others.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong?!
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