Kaneda8888

Hey all

In recent months, I've had an AA member regularly attend my home group sessions. Over the years, he has attended sporadically as he did travelled but now has settled in my home town. Whilst he is pleasant in manners, he has some characteristics which I am not sure how to effectively manage.

Firstly, he is quite prejudiced. He openly talks about his hatred of Muslims and wish to have them removed from our country. In addition, he is sexist and constantly makes extremely crude jokes and observations about women. These remarks occur before the Aa meeting formally commences.

Secondly, he is very disparaging about other AA members. Often describing them as "losers" and that they should have never given up drinking as it made no difference to their lives. I find this extremely inappropriate on many levels.

Thirdly, he constantly crosstalks during shares. When I am the Chair, I find this quite disrupting. To the point where the next time I chair, I will state members to please refrain from crosstalking during shares.
He then wanders off halfway through the meeting and doesnt return.

Obviously I cannot ban him from participating in the meeting. And he is fixed in his ways. Should I take him aside and quietly chat about what is appropriate for an AA meeting particularly in respect of the focus is solely on sobriety and stick to the AA protocols ?

Many thanks

DayTrader

Crosstalk and the general progression of the meeting is up to the chairperson to manage. Do some praying, ask for some guidance. We're here in recovery to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and to others.... so I always recommend getting advice from God first.

Re. his prejudice, leaving early, and so forth.... sounds like an excellent opportunity for you to practice love, patience, understanding and forgiveness.

If it's upsetting you at all, which it sounds like it is, I'd definitely recommend doing a quick 4th step on him. His name in column 1. The stuff you mentioned in column 2 (plus anything else that comes up) and then do the 3rd and 4th column followed by a 5th step, then 6 and 7. My guess is he'll probably end up on an 8th step list then you get to make amends.

......spiritual principles will solve all of our problems. It is up to us, however, to practice them.

Ken33xx

If he's shares his opinion on religions or women and you don't care to listen.... walk away.

As far as cross talk during a meeting: The next time you're the chair mention cross talk isn't allowed. If he does so politely ask him to stop.

As far as walking out of the room during a meeting and not returning that's his business.

Re: badmouthing and gossiping about other members all I can suggest is again... stay away. Such drama is ultimately draining.

awuh1

Much of what you describe would make me have a difficult time with him also. I've had some luck with letting a go a comment designed to make him think about what he's saying. With him I'd be tempted to say something like... "people who think they are better than others typically are compensating for a unresolved sense of their own inferiority ". Try not to let him know the comment is aimed at him. Be prepared for just the right moment.

I had a very difficult time with someone when I fist came into AA. Another member told me to pray for the guy. I got angry and told him it would be a cold day in hell before that would happen. He told me I had the right idea. He said "pray for his early death and eternal damnation"

I laughed so hard I lost my resentment.

Ken33xx

The person is looking for a reaction so forget taking the bait.

Best to avoid interacting with the individual.

nez

I would attempt to have a 1 on 1 with the guy and ask him one question "why he behaves the way he does". No judgements, no advice, no critiques. No more words or explanations beyond the question.

I would imagine it will go no where positive, but who knows. If it goes downhill fast, I would interrupt if necessary and say that I was just looking for insight to help me to understand you better. Thanks but that is the end of the 1 to 1 for now.

As to cross talking, whether I was secretary or not, I would verbally break in to nip it in the bud as soon as it starts. This usually works to bring most offenders back on track. If he gets argumentative, I would say that the meeting is everyone's and in keeping with that principle a group conscience vote is needed to make clear to everyone present what the group wants and believes is beneficial to the group as a whole.

Obladi

For sure, when making announcements at the beginning of the meeting, it's appropriate to insert a reminder about no crosstalk. And I don't see any reason you can't take him aside as "yourself" (not a representative of anyone but your own person) to let him know how his words impact you and your sense of security in this space. There's no predicting how he will respond, of course, but every one of us has the right (and I would argue, the responsibility) to stand up for ourselves in an assertive respectful way.

I recently wrassled with my intense dislike of a person who is in a group I attend. Working through it with some kind folks here, I came to realize that I see characteristics in him that I despised about my drinking persona. Plus I really do feel for the guy and his situation, but there's absolutely nothing I can do to help him because (1) it's not my place and (2) he's not in a place where he's ready to be helped in the kind of way I could help. I shared about it in a meeting and someone afterward pointed me to pp 66-67; that was very helpful.

Funny thing. I got a break from this guy for a full week, when I'd previously been seeing him about 5x/week. He was in group tonight and seemed really different. I remarked on this to one of the other guys, and the other guy said, "Nope, he's the same as always. He hasn't changed at all." Huhn, right? I prayed from my heart for this sick man, and I got better.

O

Dave42001

I’ve had several these encounters in my time, I’m with Ken as I choose to walk away or attend other meetings. my serenity comes first, I’m thankful I have many different meetings I can attend..

I do run into my favorite person every now and then and look up and say to my HP in a funny way.. “I guess today’s message is going to be about tolerance?”

I’m my Group/ Club If the person is cross talking during the meeting the chair person has the discretion to do what ever he or she wants to do..

A mentor friend has a great saying regarding these issues/people.

“They’re not doing it to you, Their just doing doing it.” Net/net some people are just selfish knuckle heads. I.e people driving in the left/fast lane while chatting on the cell.. not doing it to me specifically, prob doing it all day long.. ugg

Thanks for the post... keep us posted, please.

Derringer

You can't kick him out of AA , you can kick him out of your group.

Four – Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups, or A.A. as a whole.

autonomous
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   having the freedom to govern itself or control its own affairs.

August252015

Good comments above and this is something that most of us can encounter in some fashion.

Ultimately, the answer to this is you cannot: I am not sure how to effectively manage.


Boil it down to basics:
Why am I disturbed? Assessing your own prejudices, thoughts, control issues (ie wanting him to behave differently)
What do I do? Pause, pray and ask for suggestions
Then, what can I do to address? Only as the mtg chair, ditto the above suggestions about mtg guidelines
As another AA member - ONLY if it is with the intention of talking about the ESH (mainly HOPE) you have found in the promises as far as YOUR changed views

Finally? Move on, go to or chair a different mtg

Find a way to have peace with this dude. That doesn't mean you think he is right, helpful, or even working a program. But it isn't up to any of us to decide that for another. Stay in your own lane.

fini

when i go to a meeting, i expect a certain amount of safety. if i heard folks in the room say they hated me or made crude jokes about me...i would want that addressed. for me and for others.
while it may not appear to be "personal" in its direction, it IS personal to members of the disparaged groups.

Ken33xx

If it takes place outside of a meeting there's not much you can do. A few years back there was an ugly incident between two members at a nearby Starbucks maybe 30 mins. before the start of a 7 pm meeting.

Several members brought up what happened during the meeting which I chaired and said they didn't feel safe.

But what was I supposed to do? Why are they telling me instead of calling the police.

As far as crude jokes or bashing other religions or nationalities. There are people who just can't keep their mouth shut.

They just have to voice their opinions esp. political ... be they from the left or the right.

Anyway, I wasn't surprised several women stopped attending this Saturday meeting. There were two men who seemed to enjoy telling each other provocative jokes.

But these weren't my friends and they weren't about to be censored before the start of a meeting.

I chaired the meeting for about two years and was happy to give it to someone else.

Some members seem to have nothing in their life except never ending problems/drama both in and out of AA.

Kaneda8888

Thanks for everyone's thoughtful responses.

I was initially puzzled but over the course of the day began to understand the responses especially the ones recommending self-reflection. In particular, Daytrader reminded me of the basic foundations of my faith. To be tolerant and compassionate to others as they are suffering just like myself. I regret my ignorance of this essential outlook towards other folks.

In terms of why this person's attitude makes me uncomfortable is because I am from a minority in my country. I grew up having to grin and bear racism, sometimes overt, sometimes casual. Over time, I grew a thicker skin but racist comments made at you still irk. Last year my daughter, whilst sitting on a bus, was racially abused and spat on by an older man. Other folks on the bus simply sat there and did nothing. Hence, I have a high sensitivity towards prejudice and towards doing nothing.

However, I do not believe in being confrontational or antagonistic. This does not help anyone. As the posts have said, folks have different perspectives. Gaining an understanding of their perspective and what motivates such perspectives is the first step.

I will look at ways of engaging with the aim of understanding and practicing tolerance. I sense there is some anger and resentment within this man.

Thanks for your advice !

venuscat

Yes love....absolutely you can take him aside and talk to him.
The meetings I attend and have attended in Aus....no cross-talking was allowed. If it persists, the person is asked to leave. Same with all of his behaviour....if it interferes with the meeting it and the serenity of the other people in the meeting, it is not OK.

s

PS....You don't need to do it in a confrontational way. You can tell him that we need to express positive opinions etc and be encouraging and welcoming to all. And personally, if this continued to be a problem for me, I would call head office and ask for advice. xxxxxx

Ken33xx

I agree. It's an AA meeting. Not a work place.


I sense there is some anger and resentment within this man.

No doubt. Why?

Who knows.

I listen to people during the meeting for an hour.

But outside of a handful I speak with afterwords I don't know much about what's going on with the others.

Gottalife

AA is not a mutual admiration society. We are going to meet people we don't like and hear opinions we don't like. People have feet of clay and for sure we never can know exactly what is going on with them at times. How often I have looked at someone and thought what they should do, how they should act. Incredibly arrogant of me considering I have never walked even a yard in their shoes.

We are in AA for just one primary purpose, to carry our message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Is this guy suffering? It sure sounds like it.

On the other hand our common welfare must come first, though personal welfare is a close second. Unity is vital yet often absent when these ugly situations arise - often the chair, merely a trusted servant trying to do a job, is hung out to dry by the group or even criticized if he tries to keep the meeting running according to the format the group has given him-or her.

We also have to think of the new person in the room, is the disruption going to prevent them hearing the message. Then of course AA has no opinion on outside issues, so if the group wants to prohibit the expression of certain views some members disagree with, it would be delving into areas well outside our tradition.

My sponsor told me one time he used to be horrified at some of the things that came out of my mouth.

Maybe pages 66 and 67 have an answer, maybe we ask God what He would have us do in such a situation. "Just to the extent that we do as we think He would have us, and humbly rely on Him, does He enable us to match calamity with serenity."

I am uncomfortable with the idea of tolerating an individual, it has a certain arrogance about it like it implies I am somehow superior to the person I am tolerating.

The guy has a right to be there. Members squabble all the time, sometimes it can even get violent. My job? Well sometimes I may be able to help bring a little peace, but mainly it is to look out for the new guy and try to ensure he/she gets to hear our message of hope regardless of what else is going on.

AAPJ

This is hardly a complete answer. Just some random thoughts for your consideration.

"If you have not met someone you don't like in an AA meeting you have not been to enough AA meetings" - Steve B. - Spiritual Giant

I think that expecting the chairperson to control a problematic member is unreasonable. It's a volunteer position. Don't like how the chairperson is handling a problem member? Then step up and volunteer to take over the chair position yourself. From what I have observed (despite all the AA traditions of service) there is usually a shortage of volunteers so if you offer to take over the chair and "fix" the problem member your offer will almost certainly be accepted.

Every member has a responsibility to speak up if someone is crosstalking or doing something disruptive during a meeting. It has been my observation that old times with more than 10 years of sobriety are pretty effective at this task.

When I encounter someone I do not like in an AA meeting I generally avoid them. There are plenty of positive folks to talk to.

Letting this guy's shortcomings and attitudes bother you is like letting him live in your head rent free.

sugarbear1

You are at an AA meeting, don't expect the room to be full of well people. Work your steps on this situation with your sponsor. Live and Let Live and ignore the behaviors of this person. What an absolutely fantastic way to work your spiritual program of recovery!!!!!

Ken33xx

You take 100 people who for whatever reason don't like AA.... 98 simply stop attending.

It's that 2% who blame the fact they can't stop drinking on AA and those in the rooms who are trouble.

Again my experience has been this is a very small number but such individuals when you do run across them are bad news.

Tommyh

I need to remember to take my own inventory and then I won`t have time to take his while this situation develops