Grungehead

My experience was much the same as yours until this time back (my 3rd). I feel much more a part of the AA fellowship this time and it's because I've become fully engaged, not only in the fellowship but in the program. First I found a sponsor who was active in the fellowship and sponsoring others. Most of his friends (including his other sponsees) became my friends.

I also finally took the advice I had been given for years about showing up early and staying late, especially at my home group (finally took the advice to get a home group as well). I often get to meetings extra early and help the person who volunteered to set up the meeting, which it turns out is a great way to get to know other members on a more personal level. I also stay after the meeting to help clean up and chat with others who hang around after the meeting.

Working the steps after years of avoiding them made a big difference as well. Before working the steps I didn't really feel like I had all that much to contribute in meetings besides regurgitating what I had heard from sitting in meetings for years. After working the steps I now feel like I can finally carry a message to other alcoholics that might actually be useful.

BTW none of this was easy as I'm a tad on the introverted side. But this was the advice that was given to me and ignored by me countless times, and my track record doing it my way was not very good. This time I decided "I'm All In!", and I think it made a world of difference on how others perceive me and how I perceive myself in relation to the rest of the fellowship.

Ken33xx

After a couple of decades in AA I've realized the world outside the rooms is often calmer, more sane. There is much less drama and anger. I've often heard how AA is a microcosm of society, but I've not found that to be true. It's a very insular society with its own language and culture and bears very little resemblance to the larger community. It's not surprising it can be difficult to make friends. All I can suggest is get a commitment. Make the coffee, be a greeter, put the books away but don't be too hard on yourself. It takes a lot of time.

Anyway, I walked to the station tonight with a couple of guys that were new in town and new to the meeting.

However, I really didn't want to hangout but just being friendly and walking/chatting for ten minutes helps to get acquainted.

Those two guys, like all guys/gals trying to make friends in a new AA group aren't hip to the weirdness and the fact some members don't like each other.

Because tonights meeting like many AA meetings has it's share of drama and I've prefer to not to hang out after the meeting.

IvanMike

I go to NA but same dynamic.

I have a small group of friends in the fellowship, and it's all I need or want. Like others have said, those people who are serious about recovery and have their act together are the only ones I'd really want in my inner circle anyway.

Anyone who is surprised that the average level of crazy inside the rooms is greater than the average level of crazy among the normal population should think about that for a minute...

Sure, I have friends outside the rooms, but when I'm in trouble in my head, there are a small group of guys that I call, and they're all in recovery (for real).

miamifella

I remember someone saying on this subject that they did not think they could make friends in AA because usually they know their friends' last names.

I think nowadays people in the rooms are looser about anonymity (perhaps because with Facebook it is harder to maintain that level of anonymity?), but the legacy of that time does stay on. The program is personal...but only so far because of the need to maintain anonymity.

Ken33xx

The main person I call when I'm going through some difficulties isn't in the program but I have many AA acquaintances. Members I am friendly with and will go out for coffee with from time to time. But I've been disappointed in the past when I asked for help and a couple of members blew me off

Today, I'd say I have 3 members I can truly count on when the going gets rough.

And that's pretty good.

2muchpain

I think it's great that you found friends in NA that you can count on when you need support. But your attitude about your friends are all you need or want is pretty much what I was talking about as people not being willing or open to taking in new people. That's what makes AA an unfriendly place for many. It's like some people saying, well, I have my group of friends so I'm a happy camper, so don't to try to join us. I have also heard people in AA say they can tell is really in recovery and who is not. Sometimes this is based on such things on how much they share, what they share or where they sit. IMHO and with all due respect, I think all of this type of thinking is pretty selfish and self-centered and shows very little humility. All these things are contrary to what AA is supposed to be about. John

2muchpain

Ken33xx, I never thought about it that way, that AA is a pretty insular society. Makes sense. I guess it would be like moving to a different country with different norms and customs. That helps me a lot. Made my day. Thanks. John

Gottalife

We are not supposed to be anonymous from each other. To quote Dr Bob," we maintain anonymity at the level of press, radio, tv and films. To maintain it at any other level is just as much a breach of this tradition".

When I first came in, everyone knew last names. Today it feels like more people are choosing to be anonymous. It is a real bugger, when you try and visit someone in a hospital, or worse miss their funeral, because they wanted to be anonymous.

Everyone in AA in my home town knows my last name. The same goes for any group I frequent. I want them to be able to find me if they want. There is just no point in being so anonymous that I cant help anyone.

Gottalife

If you want to have deep, rewarding interpersonal relationships in AA, be a sponsor. Look around, it is the sponsors that are getting all the rewards, the long term happy recovery.

Those that stay at just being sponsored eventually find that the power of a sponsor to fix us is illusory at best. There is nothing to be gained by taking, but everything to be gained by giving.

stevieg46

Very true Mike about not knowing peoples second names , years ago a pal of mine got a loan of a van for a small removal from a guy known as Joiner John .

Joiner John dropped the van and the keys off , the AA guy was driving the van and got stopped by the police for a faulty light , he could not tell the police anything about Joiner John his second name his address , insurance tax etc , he was carted off to the police station and was held for 5-6 hours before umpteen phone calls to AA s before it got to Joiner John to fix out .

Think about the questioning ''is this your van sir ? '' no , ''who owns the van ?'' Joiner John ? '' what's his last name ?'' dunno, ''whats his address ? '' dunno , Police have you been drinking sir ? did you steal this van ? ( grin ) keep it simple .
In Scotland I usually give my name , not a lot do , most don't, maybe some are there for the wrong reason . Take care .

Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006

IvanMike

Oh I talk to new people all the time. I just don't try to make them stay any longer. It never works.

I'll be honest, when I showed up, despite being hostile I showed up early, stayed late, and tagged along when people went out. I sought out the guys who obviously had their act together, (made a few mistakes on that one, and figured it out pretty quick) and I talked to them all the time. I took setup and coffee maker and door greeter commitments, and I actually fulfilled them.

At about 60 days clean I noticed one of the old timers started to talk to me a lot more when we were setting up the meeting. That night he shared that in his time he'd seen hundreds of people come and go, and rather than burn himself out emotionally, he watched to see who kept showing up and actually participating.

I can tell who is recovery by how they live, not by what they say or where they sit or how many friends they have.

Over time I have "let more people in" to my close circle of friends that came in after me. They are the people that showed up and pursued recovery like it was their job. I have been privileged to witness remarkable transformations in their lives.

I've also watched a lot more people relapse, live lives of misery, and sometimes die. It's been my experience that this was not due to a lack of people reaching out to them, but a steadfast unwillingness to put in the work.

YMMV

miamifella

When came into the program, anonymity was taken very seriously and last names were never shared. I could not tell you the last names of the first sponsors I had, or anyone I saw in the rooms. Anonymity at every level was considered essential. But we also did not see AA as a social club.

To be honest, that all seemed a bit silly to me.

davaidavai

I actually think 'social club' is a pretty good way to describe that social aspect of it. It reminds me of an Elks meeting, a meeting of married gents in a small mid western city. Akron? We are a nation of fraternal orders and this is in that family I think - at least it has one foot in, in tone and tenor, although I think Bill W. was a wild man. I don't think harboring expectations or needs, wishing it was otherwise, is silly. Naive perhaps. Part of the syndrome perhaps. Very intelligible. But yeah, AA is what it is.

In the beginning I hoped it would be a way to form connections with people. I did not wildly pursue that aspect of it, but I have ardently pursued AA and the program at different times. I've spoken, shared, done step work, sought sponsors, texted, called, gone out after, arrived early.

It's also a risky environment. I've been repeat called and annoyed by a couple people. I've bared my soul to people who just drop off.

So, I guess some elements of AA may be aspects human nature intensified. it's also clearly a school for behavior. I help myself by helping others is a great way to explain human nature to people conditioned to the selfish confines of a life ideally consisting of A) nice joby job B) wife C) kids D) similar mirror images of that same sort of economically viable selfishness. But its a good place to practice integrity and reserve - decorum - in the face of regrettable tendencies, to implement positive behavior where appropriate, and to even be there if a friendship does develop.

Adults befriend each other for a variety of reasons. Looks, jobs, intellect, intuition, accomplishment, gullibility. Men may seem expansive, but often the expansiveness hides the specific and universal punctiliousness of keeping up with the jonses. It's not fair and it's a carnival of human need, insularity, mania, culturally specific tendencies, localized tendencies. But that's the world we live in and the only way to a better life is by living in and embracing that world and working within it.

CousinA

Try asking to see "angry Steve", "gay Mark", "Pat's friend Mark" or "Tennessee Mark" in the hospital. Keeping our last names from others in the fellowship is a load of crap in my humble opinion. (We were talking about the seventh step at today's 11 am so I'm well aquatinted with humble )

I have a lot of friends in AA. I'll go to coffee or have a meal with any of them. There are four I would help bury a body and one of those whom I'd lend money. I've known them over 30 years. Sometimes time does count for something.

My story. Sticking to it.

-Allan

HeadingtoChange

I thought i had made some friends in AA until i ended up drinking again after multiple years, i had actually made some acquaintances based on common ground. Still good to have had those acquaintances thought but i really am going to try and get some friends in my life now without too many conditions.

I would recommend inviting people to come for coffee, you will work your way through the ones that think they are helping a fellow alcoholic to some that will legitimately enjoy your company and vice versa

davaidavai

Thanks for the responses. This thread helps me work through my position here. It's important that I let go of these expectations, take things as they come. Wishing things were otherwise just creates stasis.

One good prayer a sponsor gave me (before he suddenly dropped off, as if he had never sent me dozens and dozens of texts and become sort of friends with me to begin with) is 'I wish you all the blessings in your life I'd wish for myself in my own.' I find it useful, kind of preserves a parity by acknowledging a two way street. I wish you blessings, and integral to that wish is me preserving the integrity of deserving the same blessings and respect. It makes it easier to forgive people I think and move on.

I wish all the blessings I'd wish upon myself to the people of AA. At the end of the day, although at times ubiquitous, they aren't really involved in my life beyond the structure of a peculiar and mostly munificent program. And so it's time for me to stop actively wishing for their friendship. It's only me here, carrying myself forward through the darkness with a lantern kindled by my own intuition.

Gottalife

People come to AA fro a variety of reasons. Lonely hearts, free therapy for another affliction, looking for victims, looking for friends, police looking for offenders, to keep someone happy. There are even some who come to recover from alcoholism, or have recovered and come to help others. Making friends may not be the prupose of AA, but it certainly pays to choose the company you keep.

IvanMike

Just to clarify, when I said that a few friendships in NA was all that I needed or wanted I simply meant that I only need a small group of people that love me unconditionally and that have my best interests at heart in order to make it. Likewise, I don't need to be friends with everyone in the fellowship. It's not realistic, nor is it practical or even smart.

That said, I have some of the most profound relationships in the fellowship that I have ever had. It's not that we share a pathology, but rather that we share a solution and empathy for one another as we navigate this thing called life.

Ken33xx

“I’m not really an alcoholic. I’m just lonely.”
All will quietly listen while you talk about your obsession with Star Wars, your slight agoraphobia and your hatred of your stepmother. As long as you call yourself an alcoholic, you have everyone’s rapt attention. Also, free coffee and cookies. Why is anyone not in AA?
The 10 Biggest Secrets People Keep in AA - Substance.com

davaidavai

Well, I did it again. Extended myself in invitation based on a previous expression of interest, assumed now, disingenuous. I guess the 4th of July weekend got to me and I thought, what the heck. Not a word of answer. Serves me right. Maybe people who have a hard time with this sort of thing have it doubly hard with recovering drunks looking to hang with TD Jakes and Tony Robbins when they get their cash and prizes.