digderidoo

Hi all and Merry Christmas

I have been thinking for some time of changing my sponsor to someone with a similar view of god as myself. For some time i have been having issues with working the program as my sponsor suggests and think it's time to get another perspective.

I have been thinking also of maybe getting an online sponsor as there are a number here who have a similar view to myself.

For some time now i have been stuck with the program as my sponsor seems to want me to work his program rather than mine if that makes sense.

I would be interested to see what others think here of an online sponsor. It wouldn't necessarily be completely online as i'm sure i'd use the phone, but it obviously wouldn't mean face to face.

Paul

24hrsAday

Paul.. sounds to me like you are Seeking Answers.. i have seen people stay sober for long periods of time doing all kinds of different things.. i always say whatever Works Best For You!

basIam

While it sounds like you are seeking answers, be careful about seeking only the answers you want to hear.

It shouldn't matter what view you and your sponsor have. They should be different as each has a different perspective.

If your sponsor insists on your conforming your beliefs to his, yeah, probably should look for a new one. But I wouldn't prerequisite that it be the same view as your own.

make sense?

AW2486

The twelve steps are all about going through a process that changes our thinking. We have to be open to that change. If we don't change, we won't stay.

Are you open to change?

Merry Christmas to you also

navysteve

Absolutely great advice. You have a great deal of freedom in AA. I knew an Agnostic who was sponsored by a Catholic Priest in the program. The spiritual principle of open mindedness seems to be key to lasting sobriety. I do not believe in the God of the bible yet many of the writings done in the carpenters name have enhanced my life.

Spirituality and religion often get confused as they same thing. They do often intersect just as AA does with both.

You can be an agnostic and be spiritual. I don't consider myself agnostic but many would classify me as such

laurie6781

I'm with Steve on this one.

My sponsor was raised in the Catholic Church and became a Mormon. Her husband, also in the program was raised Southern Baptist, had a Doctorate in Theology, definitely considered himself a Christian, however, did not belong to any organized religion.

I myself was raised Catholic, left the church at 14 never to return, was able with the 12 steps to find a Power Greater than myself and today live my life by the Native American teachings, which I find very simple, logical, and easy to understand. Some also consider me to be agnostic or pagen, lol, not my problem.

When I am asked to sponsor someone, I explain to them, that my job is to show them what is in the first 164 pages of the Big Book and to share with them how I have and do use those 164 pages in my life. I will explain what I can when they have questions (and I hope they have many) but they will find their own answers, not mine. I do for others what was done for me.

I also agree on this.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

keithj

Didge,

I was probably a year or so of working closely with my sponsor before I even knew any specifics about his concept of a higher power. It was irrelavent. He knew that it was essential for me to relate with my own concept, not his. As it turned out, his didn't match mine at all. But that was OK. He showed me how to use and develop my own concept.

Page 47 (1st Ed.) says something about 'Do I now believe or am I even willing to believe that there is a power greater than myself?" Then it says that it has been repeatedly proven that upon this simple cornerstone, a wonderfully effective sprititual structure can be built.

It doesn't say anything about the particular concept or make-up of that conerstone. The conerstone is belief or willingness to believe. Well, that's what I needed. A wonderfully effective spiritual structure. OK, I can be willing to believe, but how do I build the rest of the structure? Well, there were 10 other steps that built that.

tomvlll

In defense of your sponsor, he knows how to stay sober. You don't
And are you sure he wants you to work HIS program or does he want you to work the program in the BB???

Sugah

My sponsor is a devout Christian and I was firmly agnostic when I got sober. Over the years, I've developed into something of an accidental Buddhist -- not a religious label at all but more of a philosophical one. Like Steve, I've found a lot of inspiration and guidance in the religion of my sponsor and it's helped me to sponsor others who are Christian, Muslim and agnostic like I was.

So long as your sponsor has a firm understanding and respect for "God as [we each] understand God," then I don't think it matters. If, on the other hand, your sponsor is insisting you adopt his understanding of God, then maybe you should search for a new one.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

digderidoo

I take the point that a sponsors views doesn't have to be own. I suppose not all sponsors would prerequisite a similar sort of view.

Yes i am, but i cannot force a change in my beliefs of a God, which is what seems to be required by my sponsor.

He wants me to have a belief in an existential God, not necessarily the God of the bible, but definately God as a person.

This has been going on a long time, it is not something recent. I haven't been able to move past step 3 for about a year now and after a long hard examine of both myself and the way he wants me to work the step i have come to the conclusion that this concept of God does not sit well with me. It makes me wonder how the other steps are going to work if i have to force myself to believe in an existential God.

I have a strong concept in a higher power, as in first of all the AA group and secondly of my own spirituality or a concept of God within. I know i can come to the program with this sort of philosophy, i have looked long and hard at it.

I need to move onto steps 4 and 5, i feel ready for this. I have worked step 3 with my concepts of a higher power, but unfortunately this concept is not acceptable to my sponsor. He insists on the step 2 words of 'came to believe' and interprets this as coming to believe in God (as in a person). He has said that an atheist cannot work the program. Although i'm not an atheist, i do not agree with this statement. There is no doubt that he wants me to believe in God as a person and has stated he cannot see how the program can be worked any other way.

It is time for me to move on to the other steps and i feel i can only do this with another sponsor. He has done so much for me which i am grateful for, i guess which is why i have struggled with the idea of getting somebody else as i have built up a confidence in him. But there are at times when i feel pushed away from the program in all honesty and want to engage in the program but feel hindered by my sponsor. I do take the point though that my sponsor doesn't have to be an agnostic, but he does have to respect what my concept of a higher power is if it's different to his.

Paul

basIam

I might suggest starting another thread discussing how you arepracticing step 3. Perhaps it would give you more insight on this particular issue?

By the way, in the big book there is one specific action described that is suggested we take as part of step3. Have you taken it?

Gypsy Feet

Meh, my first sponsor kept telling me to stay on 2, so I found another one. People always say your sobriety is between you and your HP, or you are the only one who knows if your an alkie, or its an inside job, but question your sponsor and your a newbie, your looking for the things you want to hear, etc.

In the end your the person responsible for working your program and keeping you sober, do what you need to do is my newcomer response.

Sober25

I would get another sponsor, if it were me. In my humble opinion, this sponsor is holding you back, and that could be dangerous.

WakeUp

A sponsor shouldn't be "approving" anyone's Higher Power. Even with our sick, diseased minds, Alcoholics Anonymous gives us the right to our own concept of a Higher Power, provided it makes sense to him (the alcoholic, not the sponsor.)

Ago

A sponsor who keeps you "stuck" on step 3 is a sponsor who keeps you "stuck" in the "dis-ease" of alcoholism

You get to choose your concept of a power greater then yourself, and the wording of the prayer is optional, as long as it is voiced without reservation

The second step doesn't say a word about "God", and all step three is basically making a decision to work 4-9, 4-9 teach us how to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understand God

Came (to AA)
Came to (my brains started clearing up)
Came to believe (what?)( That AA and AA's 12 steps can restore me to sanity)

that a power greater then myself ( with agnostics and atheists I just ask if AA can: )

Restore me to sanity (was I insane? was I a danger to myself and others? Did I keep doing the same things over and over and expecting different results? Admittance of insanity and a faith that AA's 12 steps can help me is the keystone of this step for me)

In step 1 we admit we were powerless, in step 3 we are given that power back "as we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind" etc.

The simplest way to do step 3 is by doing steps 4-9, hold your nose, close your eyes and jump in, having faith this can work for you like it has worked for so many others.

You don't have to answer to ANYONE about your higher power, that includes your "sponsor" or anyone here, your relationship with your HP is your business, and what the steps are for, to establish a personal relationship between you and YOUR higher power, not his, that maroon takes the Oscar for "unclear on the concept" award this year in AA.

Paul, Gimme a PM either here or on FB, step 3 takes about 5 minutes at this point judging by what you have written, I don't know why "God" put this sponsor in your life other then to fill you up with a burning desire to do the steps, but it's none of his business what your "God" looks like, just because his "God" has a "wee willy" doesn't mean yours has to, I'd prolly just start torturing the guy myself and buy some Wiccan literature and start spouting some "Great Goddess" claptrap at him to counter his "Patriarchal genocidal jewish God" (coming from Wiccan POV), and start spouting off about the inquisition, The "Irish" question, etc etc ad nauseum or better yet, tell him you have "seen the light" but he has to perform the Bris on you so you can both see God together but I am evil that way.

Gimme a holler

WakeUp

You tell it Ago!
I always love reading your posts. You seem to have the perfect thing to say many times.

Can I get an AMEN?

Ribeye

How can your sponsor stop you from doing the steps ? Read the BB and say the prayer and then start writing.

What's he gonna do, fire you ??

Sometimes you need to do the work before you change your thinking.....no that's a lie. Most of the time you have to do the work first. lol !!

whatajoy

I can only echo what other people have said.

My experience was that I didn't even understand what step three meant until I moved on to the other steps.

Before I moved on in the steps I was really fearful of talking or thinking about God. All I knew was the order existed in the universe and there had to be a force behind it. When I started to write step four I began to understand my flaws and a little bit of the love of God and my perception or thinking has changed as I've changed through the steps.

So, yeah, I would absolutely suggest to get a new sponsor.

barb dwyer

Digi-

I've 'temp sponsored' people online but only until they could get to a meeting in 3-D.
It just doesn't work without that 'live and uncut' thing going on.

BUT-

At the same time =-
you'd think that way out here in Montana,
there'd be a shortage of budhists as sponsors
when in fact
there's quite a few.

I think diversity
is the spice of life
and you should try finding
one iin each world.

(meaning the 3-D and the virtual)

jaitch

Heres a question a sponsor I had couldnt answer, Why does "power greater than ourselves " in step 2 change to God in step 3.