doorknob

I can't help but wonder but what I am. I've seldom drank enough to be considered a hard drinker, except for the occasional one night binge. I've never become physically dependent to the point of having serious physical withdrawal. I have had DUI's and blackouts (it doesn't take a whole lot for me). But, I, for the most part, drink a few beers (spread throughout the day) every day and haven't been able to quit for a very long time. I'm also a pot addict. Atheism aside, I have to wonder if I belong in AA at all, or if I'm just one of those MOTR people.

Pam08

I understand the cell phone part, we announce to put them on silent or off. it is disturbing and only once ina blue moon did someone forget to turn it off. they usually quickly shut it off or leave the room to answer. that is respect. As far as you reaching out to someone in desperate need, I commend you. I got that when I was hurting at a meeting or two..I was given a list of numbers also, Ithink people were doing what they thought would help the man, am sure they didn't try to disrespect you in any way. Just my take as I have been on the receiving end of the same, and it worked out fine with no hard feelings by anyone.

AW2486

Wish I could help you with an answer, you are the only person that can answer that.

jimhere

Dk,
Please take a look at the book. Read the Doctor's Opinion. It speaks of an allergy to alcohol manifested in the form of a phenomenon of craving for more alcohol, when the alcoholic drinks alcohol. In other words, can you control the amount you take when you drink?

Then take a look at Chapter 2. There are three types of drinkers that are described. The moderate drinker, who can take or leave alcohol. Then there is a certain type of hard drinker. This guy looks a lot like a drunk. And sometimes acts like one too. He'll end up in some of the same places like treatment centers. He might go to jail once or twice. He might have physical problems and even up in detox. He'll get DUI's. He'll certainly end up in AA meetings. But give him a good reason and he'll stop drinking or moderate. He can take or leave it because he doesn't have an obsession of the mind coupled with an allergy of the body. And he doesn't need the same solution that the real alcoholic does. For him it's not a life and eath matter. For him the problem is drinking alcohol, stop drinking problem solved. He is the type that you see in AA that loves the social aspect of the fellowship and maybe does a little service work to enhance the socialbility. These are the middle-of-the-road types I was talking about. Good people, no doubt, but for them AA is a support group, nothing more. I guess it is good that we can be that for them, but I am a real alcoholic and am beyond human aid. I need more than a support group or social network.

Then there is the real alcoholic. He can't take it or leave it. And what seperates him from the first two is that once he starts drinking he loses control over the amount he takes and then he can't stay away from alcohol no matter what. When he is sober, life is untenable, he makes heavy going of living, as the book says. Eventually this leads back to active alcoholism or even suicide.

Chapter 3 describes the states of mind sober that bring the alcoholic back to a drink. Chapter 4 talks about the spiritual problem and what the solution is. Take a look at page 52, the "bedevilments," or human problems. Do you suffer from these problems sober? When you aren't high on pot? Does drinking or smoking pot take the edge off and make it easier to get along in the world? I will say that these are human problems, not alcoholic problems. Most of the population suffers from these bedevilments to some degree. But this is the condition that the alcoholic can't stand to live in while he is sober. This is the spiritual malady, the problem that must be solved in order to have any kind of meaningful sobriety. Just read these chapters with an open mind.

I don't see your being an atheist as a problem here, dk. First off all we need to diagnose you. Then if you find you are alcoholic, we can look at the spiritual remedy. It has nothing to do with your beliefs. The spiritual problem is more of a living problem, therefore we need a living answer.

By all means pm me if I can be helpful.
Jim

Big Book references from Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition

Music

As I was reading some of the posts here,(mainly the ones that are short, sweet and to the point)I was reminded of some of the things I've done at meetings throughout my sobriety.

I remember one time as I was speaking at a meeting, I dropped the "F" bomb. As I was walking back to my seat, my sponsor, who had been chairing the meeting said something like, "the program of Alcoholics Anonymous enables us to not only clean up the wreckage of the past, but also our mouths!" I don't believe I've made that same mistake since. I have to remember from whence I came. When I walked into a bar for a good time, it wasn't uncommon for me to announce to everyone there that I had arrived. Good manners was not my strong point so interupting conversations was the norm. When I came to AA, cell phones were the size of a brick and weighed four pounds so they weren't carried around in one's pocket, as much as they were trucked around. Although the AA program hasn't changed in the past 31 years or so, I see that the people coming to AA have changed. The attitude of Easy Does It isn't pressed as much as it was. I rarely hear "Let God and Let God". Consequently the faster, easier softer way seems to have more prominence. Whereas new folks were referred to pigeons(to quote Dr. Bob), nowdays new people are called sponsees, so as not to offend. Whereas I was told to sit silent, take the cotton out my ears and insert it in my mouth because I had nothing to say, nowdays people are offended at the idea that their ideas about getting sober and staying sober after one or two meetings, need to be kept to themselves because they know nothing.

I've actually had people threaten to leave AA and not come back because they feel uncomfortable with the "God" stuff, and they don't like how people treat them. My answer to them is this. If you're an alcoholic and you belong here, where are you going to go? Back out to the people, places and things that were killing you? Good luck, and have a nice day. These are the things I was told when I first came to AA. The question, "do you want to drink some more" was asked of me on more than one occasion. The choice was mine.

Don't get me wrong. As the Big Book says, "I'll learn the true meaning of love thy neighbor as thyself" is not wasted here. However, I've also learned that people can be killed with kindness....literaly, and sometimes the most loving thing to do is just be honest and teach the people who we perceive to have bad manners, the correct conduct in an AA meeting instead of getting upset at the fact that these people are in a new environment, 180 degrees opposite from the one they've been used to. The problem is, I find it kind of uncomfortable to instruct someone in a civil manner, rather than being confrontive. I have to practice that as well.

RufusACanal

The answers to recovery questions are in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. Though not the easiest book to study, the Big Book touches on the relevant topics necessary to recover if one is willing to change their entire life.

353

This guy looks a lot like a drunk. And sometimes acts like one too. He'll end up in some of the same places like treatment centers. He might go to jail once or twice. He might have physical problems and even up in detox. He'll get DUI's. He'll certainly end up in AA meetings. But give him a good reason and he'll stop drinking or moderate. He can take or leave it because he doesn't have an obsession of the mind coupled with an allergy of the body. And he doesn't need the same solution that the real alcoholic does. For him it's not a life and eath matter. For him the problem is drinking alcohol, stop drinking problem solved. He is the type that you see in AA that loves the social aspect of the fellowship


Awesome, thanks Jim. That sounds like me alot. I must just be one of those heavy drinker people. Way cool!! All I needed was a reason to moderate and I'm OK. Man thanks!

I hope you and your loved ones aren't in my path when I'm weaving down the road at a .25 or higher.

One question, when you see a newcomer being talked to by a MOTR person, do you interupt or do you figure, oh well just that guys poor luck, he should have been so lucky to let me reach him first.

Rowan

I appreciate threads like this one - I'm still a relative newcomer in terms of what I know about Alcoholics Anonymous, and alcoholism. I'd like to thank Jim and Music in particular for taking the time to share their experience, strength and hope here. Gentlemen like these who are willing to tell it like it is are the ones I learn from.

Members who reply using sarcasm really don't add anything meaningful to this discussion IMO.

RufusACanal

353, why? Does this poor attempt at sarcasm serve a purpose?

353

ego got the best of me...happens from time to time Ron.

I was at my meeting last Friday, early as usual. There's always a meeting going on at this club and this kid comes out early all bent out of shape. I've seen this young man, in and out for over a year, he's really struggling and he was in tears.

Another AA'er came out after him and the three of us began talking. The kid was shaking. Apparently one of the senior members took offense at his alcoholic/addict introduction and began belittling him during his comments. Now I knew the gentleman they were talking about, he's a good guy, old school, helps the way he knows how, some can relate to his recovery.

What this has to do with the topic I don't know. But I do know that my disease would just love for me to think I don't have it. Give me a little window of doubt, like that kid last Friday, ready to just say screw this AA crap.

You know I may very well be a middle of the road person. I don't think so, but it's dangerous for me to think too much, always gets me in trouble. I do know this for a fact.....If I am a middle of the road drinker and I don't need AA to stay sober, that's just great for me. But, if I don't stay in my meetings and stay sober, at whose peril.

There's a community of people out here that don't need me out on the roads drinking and driving because I think that only having a couple DUI's doesn't make me an alcoholic.

Jim, I apologize for my sarcastic comment and right now it's time to get to my Monday meeting.

Please forgive me
and as alaways

Peace

Dee74

I dunno whether it was good sarcasm or not, but I appreciated your comments 353.

D

Rowan

My eyes just rolled so far back in my head I nearly fell over.

doorknob

Ditto. I don't fit neatly into any of the categories that the Big Book describes.

Ananda

You know I've tried to stay out of this, but I really just can't....

I AM a member of ALCHOLICS ANONOMOUS like it or not...

I give people numbers, and i have interupted people talking outside meetings to a newcomer to say welcome.

The first woman they tried to do the one on one thing to me with was cause they judged me by my looks and took me for a glass off wine alchoholic type person...couldn't relate to her at all.

I don't do "by the big book" AA and you know I AM a real alchoholic.

I'm sober today and I really don't feel like waiting till I have 20 years to prove myself.

I let "hardliners" drive me out of meeting before and the result was an 8 year drunk....I will never ever let that happen again.

Rowan

... and ... they're off ..

Ananda

yep...after 50 posts .....

desertdonna

I am grateful that I attended AA before this thread ever appeared. I have read this thread through several times over the past two days and it still leaves an unsettled feeling.

Alcoholism is a progressive and fatal disease. And yes, I am a real alcoholic, even though I never ended up in a gutter. Desperation comes in many guises. If at any point this disease can be arrested before death and destruction occurs, that is life affirming and instills hope.

Rowan, on the last page you assert that you’re a newcomer to AA and are just learning about alcoholism…then your eyes are rolling in your head at another comment. I don’t get it.

I feel sorry for any suffering newcomers who read this thread and turn away from AA, who may suffer further in silence, or worse, and not walk through the door because of what they’ve read here.

Rowan

Hi Donna,

I've been attending AA for 7 years - I relapsed twice over the years and I currently have just over 2 years - but I'm still very much a newcomer in terms of what I have to learn.

The rolling of the eyes comment WAS juvenile, and I apologize. It was a feeble attempt to defuse a debate.

I don't neatly fit into any categories outlined in the Big Book either - I'm a middle of the road drunk - and that's just fine with me. The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking, and I have that. I went pretty far down the scale in that I very nearly succeeded in committing suicide, but on the 'outside' everything looked pretty good in my life.

I can learn a lot from these threads/discussions, and prefer to look at them that way. If I disagree on a certain point, so be it. The OP works a solid program IMO and has helped many alcoholics - I'm one of them - so, as we say in meetings, I take what I need ... and leave the rest.

Again, my apologies for my juvenile post earlier.

Pinkcuda

I don't know what was said but I'm sure it was inapropriate at the time. There is a reason however that we should avoid the Alcoholic/Addict introduction at all costs.

Clutch B

An AA group is well brewed pot of good intentions, genuine concern, and love with a dash of occasional blind egotism, selfishness, and rudeness.

And I owe these people my life