I'm the wife of an adult child of an alcoholic
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
((((Wife of an Acoa))))
I could have written almost everything in every one of your posts. Down to my husband getting people who had never met me to diagnose me. "Chemically imbalanced from being pregnant so often" from a psyche nurse who had never met me, never spoken to me, never laid eyes on me. He has done all the same things you describe, and he is the son of an alcoholic. (But then again, I also grew up in an alcoholic family and have spent years making choices to look hard at myself and how I want to treat others, and how I want to answer God for my time on earth when the time comes...so your husband and mine are also making choices.)
My husband convinced one marriage counselor that the real problem in our marriage was my 'anger issues.' (Yes, I WAS angry, because I found out all the secrets and lies and things he'd been up to behind my back.) I think you're on the right track to see the counselor ONLY as a couple, because it was in his sessions alone that he no doubt told the counselor things I can't even imagine and convinced him I was imagining it all. But still be wary, counselors come in so many varieties of competency and even when they know darn well something's wrong, they can't fix this unless YOUR HUSBAND WANTS to fix this. Our first marriage counselor ended up by telling me obviously he was up to no good, but could I just pretend everything was okay for the sake of the kids? (Um...no. If I could have done that, I'd be at home doing it instead of paying a counselor.)
My priest's advice was 'see a counselor to get strong enough to do what you need to do.' If you see one on your own, look for one who does EMDR therapy. Not only I, but virtually everyone who's used it at the infidelity board I go to, has had amazing results.
One of the things I have had to slowly face over the years I've dealt with his infidelity and general verbally abusive behavior, is that staying is NOT necessarily best for the kids. I have fought for years the way he yells at them to keep me in line. His example is not good for them, in many ways, and now that he'll be moving out soon, I'm finding I'm already able to establish a little bit of order in their lives. The example they're seeing of what a marriage is is terrible. And I know how scary it is to think of leaving with 4 children. I'm doing it with more than that, and it kept me here for a long time.
One other thing that I've run into is that I suspect in most cases like this, there are things we, the spouses, don't know. In my case, I found out not only about the string of 'friends' (and who knows the whole truth behind that), I found out he'd run us into massive debt, which he was planning on rolling into the mortgage (and a typical follow up to this maneuver, I know from friends with husbands like this, is to 'give' the house with all their debt now on it, to the wife in the divorce.) Anyway, I'm realizing I NEEDED to file for my own self-protection on top of everything else. I'll actually be better off financially, whereas I believe staying for the kids would have led to the kids losing their home, thanks to his debt. Hopefully you're not also dealing with this, but just something to be aware of.
It sounds like you have already taken the first steps. Yes, make a contingency plan. Live the life you value. Do things you love. Spend your time with people who treat you like you have value! Are you getting an education or a part time job?
Oh, and by the way, my husband is also a 'really great guy.' But it's all a surface act. Someone who showers you with flowers and jewelry and tells you you're not good enough and yells at you and makes ridiculous accusations, is still an abuser. What really opened my eyes to what was going on here was Lundy Bancroft's book, Why Does He Do That? It sounds like you're already very clear on what's going on, but if you have any interest in reading more, I highly recommend it. It described my non-hitting husband to a T, and it's a book about abusers.
I could have written almost everything in every one of your posts. Down to my husband getting people who had never met me to diagnose me. "Chemically imbalanced from being pregnant so often" from a psyche nurse who had never met me, never spoken to me, never laid eyes on me. He has done all the same things you describe, and he is the son of an alcoholic. (But then again, I also grew up in an alcoholic family and have spent years making choices to look hard at myself and how I want to treat others, and how I want to answer God for my time on earth when the time comes...so your husband and mine are also making choices.)
My husband convinced one marriage counselor that the real problem in our marriage was my 'anger issues.' (Yes, I WAS angry, because I found out all the secrets and lies and things he'd been up to behind my back.) I think you're on the right track to see the counselor ONLY as a couple, because it was in his sessions alone that he no doubt told the counselor things I can't even imagine and convinced him I was imagining it all. But still be wary, counselors come in so many varieties of competency and even when they know darn well something's wrong, they can't fix this unless YOUR HUSBAND WANTS to fix this. Our first marriage counselor ended up by telling me obviously he was up to no good, but could I just pretend everything was okay for the sake of the kids? (Um...no. If I could have done that, I'd be at home doing it instead of paying a counselor.)
My priest's advice was 'see a counselor to get strong enough to do what you need to do.' If you see one on your own, look for one who does EMDR therapy. Not only I, but virtually everyone who's used it at the infidelity board I go to, has had amazing results.
One of the things I have had to slowly face over the years I've dealt with his infidelity and general verbally abusive behavior, is that staying is NOT necessarily best for the kids. I have fought for years the way he yells at them to keep me in line. His example is not good for them, in many ways, and now that he'll be moving out soon, I'm finding I'm already able to establish a little bit of order in their lives. The example they're seeing of what a marriage is is terrible. And I know how scary it is to think of leaving with 4 children. I'm doing it with more than that, and it kept me here for a long time.
One other thing that I've run into is that I suspect in most cases like this, there are things we, the spouses, don't know. In my case, I found out not only about the string of 'friends' (and who knows the whole truth behind that), I found out he'd run us into massive debt, which he was planning on rolling into the mortgage (and a typical follow up to this maneuver, I know from friends with husbands like this, is to 'give' the house with all their debt now on it, to the wife in the divorce.) Anyway, I'm realizing I NEEDED to file for my own self-protection on top of everything else. I'll actually be better off financially, whereas I believe staying for the kids would have led to the kids losing their home, thanks to his debt. Hopefully you're not also dealing with this, but just something to be aware of.
It sounds like you have already taken the first steps. Yes, make a contingency plan. Live the life you value. Do things you love. Spend your time with people who treat you like you have value! Are you getting an education or a part time job?
Oh, and by the way, my husband is also a 'really great guy.' But it's all a surface act. Someone who showers you with flowers and jewelry and tells you you're not good enough and yells at you and makes ridiculous accusations, is still an abuser. What really opened my eyes to what was going on here was Lundy Bancroft's book, Why Does He Do That? It sounds like you're already very clear on what's going on, but if you have any interest in reading more, I highly recommend it. It described my non-hitting husband to a T, and it's a book about abusers.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 112
I have to finish an essay, get my work done and study for a test, so I apologize in advance for my brevity.
Just wanted to add that like-minded seem to stick together. I maintain that you should be weary of the counselor your husband chose and his friends that swear by him. There is likely a reason.
I also wanted to chime in to say I still call my ex "the charmer" because on the surface he put on a great show. Everyone loved him. Those that never lived with him of course. I understand it though. Surely, they wouldn't dare walk around and say these things in FRONT of people - then everyone would KNOW they were being abusive, or they were being a$$holes. Then they would be exposing themselves. YOU would gain the allies, and his would be lost. Instead, they work on convincing the universe that you are crazy and awful and they are the victim (and might I add; if we are all so awful, why oh why do they keep us around? huh?). They build up their little army. Everything they do is strategic. As, I've said a few times. It's what they do.
100% agree there is often more going on behind the scenes that he is not sharing.
Echo the others and your mother. MAKE A CONTINGENCY PLAN.
Just wanted to add that like-minded seem to stick together. I maintain that you should be weary of the counselor your husband chose and his friends that swear by him. There is likely a reason.
I also wanted to chime in to say I still call my ex "the charmer" because on the surface he put on a great show. Everyone loved him. Those that never lived with him of course. I understand it though. Surely, they wouldn't dare walk around and say these things in FRONT of people - then everyone would KNOW they were being abusive, or they were being a$$holes. Then they would be exposing themselves. YOU would gain the allies, and his would be lost. Instead, they work on convincing the universe that you are crazy and awful and they are the victim (and might I add; if we are all so awful, why oh why do they keep us around? huh?). They build up their little army. Everything they do is strategic. As, I've said a few times. It's what they do.
100% agree there is often more going on behind the scenes that he is not sharing.
Echo the others and your mother. MAKE A CONTINGENCY PLAN.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 78
this is the 3rd time I've tried to send this!
thank you all for your support. I come here daily to be encouraged, challenged, and understood.
It is unbelievable, the feeling of knowing that there are people who understand what I'm going through.
I haven't had that.
I kept things to myself for years because I just thought that they were quirky, not abusive, then I opened up to my family (who try to understand but it's hard for them to fully understand), to finding this site.
I am so thankful for all the support.
Because I am a Christian I have been reading my Bible and praying a lot lately. It has kept me from believing lies about myself and I know that I am worthy of more.
I'm not listening to the lies anymore.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm praying to know what I'm dealing with. Am I dealing with a man who can change or am I dealing with the 'nice' cycle man who will never change?
There's a verse that talks about how Christians can ask whatever their need of God is and believing they'll receive.
"If our hearts do not condemn us we have confidence before God and receive from Him anything we ask, because we obey His commands and do what pleases Him."
Bottom line - if my heart says, "you deserve this hurt. you deserve this pain. you're not good enough." All lies!
I don't have to listen to the lies. I am good enough and I don't deserve this.
And it was cool to read and realize that when I'm listening to what God thinks of me instead of my heart (lies, other voices, ..)
then I can confidently ask things of Him because we are in tune with God.
So, who is it Lord that I'm dealing with? - the man who can change or the man who will never change?
My husband came home from work yesterday and told me how he felt instead of accusing me of trying to hurt him.
He later wanted to pray together for us and our family.
Then he wanted to be intimate.
Well, this area has gotten quite shady lately.
If I am not passionate enough, not open enough then I am rejecting him. Once he feels this rejection then I am blamed.
I get to decide what I want to do in this area and what I don't want.
So, despite how I knew what the outcome could be:
I said, I'm not comfortable with this.
He said he didn't want to do anything that made me uncomfortable. So, we wound up watching a tv show instead.
These are all huge things! very huge for us.
I have hope.
I know that things WILL change. Don't misunderstand me though. One day does not mean things will change in the way I assume.
Change is coming.
Whether this change means that I am without him or whether this change means that we are together - change is coming.
I'm not going back to that black pit I was just in over a month ago. I was so lost and drenched in hopelessness.
God picked me up out of the black pit.
I'm going to trust Him.
So, if my husband can admit his wrongs and admit that he needs to change then I think we can make it.
If he cannot come to the realization of his wrongs in these counselling sessions then I'm going to do what I need to do.
I will have to leave because I'm not going back to the pit.
If he's going to fail I'm not going to fail with him.
I want a good life, good marriage, and I do deserve it. God knows that we all do.
So, one step in front of the other.
* my contingency plan. I will have to decide to leave if he cannot accept responsibility for himself.
On a slightly different note:
I’m not going to underestimate him. I know how he can be building up an army against me. I’ve seen it. But my God is bigger than his pathetic army.
And if my husband wants my trust it’s going to take a lot more than just one day to gain it.
It is unbelievable, the feeling of knowing that there are people who understand what I'm going through.
I haven't had that.
I kept things to myself for years because I just thought that they were quirky, not abusive, then I opened up to my family (who try to understand but it's hard for them to fully understand), to finding this site.
I am so thankful for all the support.
Because I am a Christian I have been reading my Bible and praying a lot lately. It has kept me from believing lies about myself and I know that I am worthy of more.
I'm not listening to the lies anymore.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm praying to know what I'm dealing with. Am I dealing with a man who can change or am I dealing with the 'nice' cycle man who will never change?
There's a verse that talks about how Christians can ask whatever their need of God is and believing they'll receive.
"If our hearts do not condemn us we have confidence before God and receive from Him anything we ask, because we obey His commands and do what pleases Him."
Bottom line - if my heart says, "you deserve this hurt. you deserve this pain. you're not good enough." All lies!
I don't have to listen to the lies. I am good enough and I don't deserve this.
And it was cool to read and realize that when I'm listening to what God thinks of me instead of my heart (lies, other voices, ..)
then I can confidently ask things of Him because we are in tune with God.
So, who is it Lord that I'm dealing with? - the man who can change or the man who will never change?
My husband came home from work yesterday and told me how he felt instead of accusing me of trying to hurt him.
He later wanted to pray together for us and our family.
Then he wanted to be intimate.
Well, this area has gotten quite shady lately.
If I am not passionate enough, not open enough then I am rejecting him. Once he feels this rejection then I am blamed.
I get to decide what I want to do in this area and what I don't want.
So, despite how I knew what the outcome could be:
I said, I'm not comfortable with this.
He said he didn't want to do anything that made me uncomfortable. So, we wound up watching a tv show instead.
These are all huge things! very huge for us.
I have hope.
I know that things WILL change. Don't misunderstand me though. One day does not mean things will change in the way I assume.
Change is coming.
Whether this change means that I am without him or whether this change means that we are together - change is coming.
I'm not going back to that black pit I was just in over a month ago. I was so lost and drenched in hopelessness.
God picked me up out of the black pit.
I'm going to trust Him.
So, if my husband can admit his wrongs and admit that he needs to change then I think we can make it.
If he cannot come to the realization of his wrongs in these counselling sessions then I'm going to do what I need to do.
I will have to leave because I'm not going back to the pit.
If he's going to fail I'm not going to fail with him.
I want a good life, good marriage, and I do deserve it. God knows that we all do.
So, one step in front of the other.
* my contingency plan. I will have to decide to leave if he cannot accept responsibility for himself.
On a slightly different note:
I’m not going to underestimate him. I know how he can be building up an army against me. I’ve seen it. But my God is bigger than his pathetic army.
And if my husband wants my trust it’s going to take a lot more than just one day to gain it.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Whew.
I second only joint counseling or your own private counselor. And please don't fall into any more traps about God not answering your prayers because it's your fault. Sometimes there is no answer and we don't know why but we keep on. It has nothing to do with your faith.
Protect yourself, emotionally.
I second only joint counseling or your own private counselor. And please don't fall into any more traps about God not answering your prayers because it's your fault. Sometimes there is no answer and we don't know why but we keep on. It has nothing to do with your faith.
Protect yourself, emotionally.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 78
yesterday and today
I thought, of the list of things emotionally abused people encounter, and I thought hmmm... well, keeping me from supportive people and cutting me off from others... he doesn't do that.
Yesterday he did.
My parents have come to visit for the weekend and he did some different stuff. I'll have to elaborate more later when I have the time to though.
He was not happy that I was going to be going out to do something with my mother. He was even arguing with me around the corner from my father. Now today he's not really talking to me. I'm not sure what he's thinking, I feel very uncomfortable.
Thankful my folks are here.
Yesterday he did.
My parents have come to visit for the weekend and he did some different stuff. I'll have to elaborate more later when I have the time to though.
He was not happy that I was going to be going out to do something with my mother. He was even arguing with me around the corner from my father. Now today he's not really talking to me. I'm not sure what he's thinking, I feel very uncomfortable.
Thankful my folks are here.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 78
need hope again.
I'm hoping that there will be someone I meet in my life who says, "I'm a woman and my husband was like that and y'know what? We made it through. We made it, we survived, he changed."
Things were going really well for a couple of days and then yesterday I asked him what he wanted to accomplish for the day.
He said that he wanted to clean the gutters and rake the yard, maybe wash windows.
Okay, so I wanted to go to the nearest city with my Mom for part of the day.
He was mad about that because that would mean that he'd get nothing done. And there was no way that both could be done.
I said that my father was staying and willing to watch the little people and everything.
He said that my father doesn't do anything but play on the computer and he has to do everything.
The thing is, whenever there's someone else in charge of the kids he will still take over. I can think of countless times when someone else was supposed to be in charge and he would say that they weren't doing enough, weren't doing it right,...
Never trusts anyone.
I said that. How he can't seem to trust my father to even take care of the kids and he got mad. He said that that wasn't it and kept twisting my words around.
He actually argued with me in the same room with my father around the corner (whispered the "he only plays on the computer and I have to do everything" part) - it's an L-shaped room.
I need someone to remind me that things can get better. I want to believe that. He acts all nice but honestly he's got something screwed up inside. I don't like being married to a man who makes his son repeat sentences again and again because HE'S the perfectionist.
Right now I'm angry. Angry because all I need, all I've ever needed is for him to say:
I mess up too. I'm not perfect. I need help with some things. I have issues.
Will he ever admit to those things?
I need to keep my strength. When I think of how he'll never admit to needing help then I think... it's not so bad. I'll just stay with him anyway. Live my days on eggshells (not every day just sometimes) and give my children more than I could do on my own...
I don't know where the heck I am today.
It's not so bad. This sucks. I hate this. I can handle this for 16 more years. I can't do this. I'm scared he's angry at me. I don't think he's going to listen to me. I can do this.
Why? Why should anyone have to be married to a person who won't admit that they're imperfect? We're all imperfect.
Admitting that doesn't equal weakness, it means that you're willing to work on yourself.
Will he honestly ever work on himself or will I always be the project?
Think he said something to someone at our church, that person's acting weird now. I don't know.
I don't know who I'm allowed to trust sometimes.
Trust my parents, my sisters, extremely close friends, trust you people here.
But anyone he can talk to (mutual friends) they seem to think that I'm to blame.
Hating everything right now.
Sorry all. Just wanted a marriage that was like my parents' marriage. They're a team, they're good together, they're happy, they're not perfect but my father's not overbearing and y'know what? There's love. ...not love that says I need to control you, that's not love.
Things were going really well for a couple of days and then yesterday I asked him what he wanted to accomplish for the day.
He said that he wanted to clean the gutters and rake the yard, maybe wash windows.
Okay, so I wanted to go to the nearest city with my Mom for part of the day.
He was mad about that because that would mean that he'd get nothing done. And there was no way that both could be done.
I said that my father was staying and willing to watch the little people and everything.
He said that my father doesn't do anything but play on the computer and he has to do everything.
The thing is, whenever there's someone else in charge of the kids he will still take over. I can think of countless times when someone else was supposed to be in charge and he would say that they weren't doing enough, weren't doing it right,...
Never trusts anyone.
I said that. How he can't seem to trust my father to even take care of the kids and he got mad. He said that that wasn't it and kept twisting my words around.
He actually argued with me in the same room with my father around the corner (whispered the "he only plays on the computer and I have to do everything" part) - it's an L-shaped room.
I need someone to remind me that things can get better. I want to believe that. He acts all nice but honestly he's got something screwed up inside. I don't like being married to a man who makes his son repeat sentences again and again because HE'S the perfectionist.
Right now I'm angry. Angry because all I need, all I've ever needed is for him to say:
I mess up too. I'm not perfect. I need help with some things. I have issues.
Will he ever admit to those things?
I need to keep my strength. When I think of how he'll never admit to needing help then I think... it's not so bad. I'll just stay with him anyway. Live my days on eggshells (not every day just sometimes) and give my children more than I could do on my own...
I don't know where the heck I am today.
It's not so bad. This sucks. I hate this. I can handle this for 16 more years. I can't do this. I'm scared he's angry at me. I don't think he's going to listen to me. I can do this.
Why? Why should anyone have to be married to a person who won't admit that they're imperfect? We're all imperfect.
Admitting that doesn't equal weakness, it means that you're willing to work on yourself.
Will he honestly ever work on himself or will I always be the project?
Think he said something to someone at our church, that person's acting weird now. I don't know.
I don't know who I'm allowed to trust sometimes.
Trust my parents, my sisters, extremely close friends, trust you people here.
But anyone he can talk to (mutual friends) they seem to think that I'm to blame.
Hating everything right now.
Sorry all. Just wanted a marriage that was like my parents' marriage. They're a team, they're good together, they're happy, they're not perfect but my father's not overbearing and y'know what? There's love. ...not love that says I need to control you, that's not love.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 112
I know you WANT to hear that it will all work out, but the truth is, your husband has some serious deep rooted issues and no one can tell you it will work out except for your husband. That is because no one can fix this, except for your husband. And, he has to want to. In order for him to want to, he has to realize his faults and want to change them. There is nothing in your last post that gives me the impression that that's where things are headed. It's not like he can go to a few counseling sessions and fix this either, this is deep.
It's great that you have an understanding of what is going on, but there is no magic button to push to make it go away. Most of the time, it gets worse. You don't need hope, you need change. It needs to stop.
Do you not see how your husband is even trying to control other people...i.e your example with the kids and your father. Why do you think your father winds up on the computer? It gives him something to do AWAY from your husband!!! And, excuse me, but why does your husband feel the need to say your father doesn't DO ANYTHING. Um, hello....not his house, not his responsibility. When your Dad comes over he is a visiting, not paid staff. Sheesh.
Also, what's so hard about raking and doing the windows in one day by yourself? Give me a break. You need to be involved in every single thing he does or "nothing will get done" and he's going to flip out? What is wrong with his arms and legs? They don't work? Does he just supervise? You can't spend half the day with your MOTHER! Good grief, I can only imagine what he would say if you wanted to spend time with a friend instead.
He makes your son repeat sentences over and over? Forget about how you like being married to a man that does that. Imagine being the child that has a father that does that! *THIS* *THIS RIGHT HERE* should be your motivation. Your strength. If you think that staying while he treats you the way he does in front of them and treats your children this way is giving them more than you ever could alone...you could not be MORE WRONG. They need love, not fancy things.
Please, please, please find yourself a counselor that specializes in domestic abuse. Or find a support group in your area that you can go to while he is at work. You need to hear it from other people that know. You can want him to say he's wrong, and imperfect and he will change for the rest of your life but that your will is not going to change him. And, there will be times where he admits fault (partially) and you will feel lifted and hopeful...and then in a few days he'll be right back to the old stuff. Just look in this thread how many ups and downs you have had already. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO.
If he hit you, would you still be there? This is no different. I personally feel that the scars from the emotional abuse run much deeper. Don't worry about what his friends think, or who is telling what, just worry about yourself and your kids.
Control is not Love. It isn't. So glad to hear you say that out loud.
It's great that you have an understanding of what is going on, but there is no magic button to push to make it go away. Most of the time, it gets worse. You don't need hope, you need change. It needs to stop.
Do you not see how your husband is even trying to control other people...i.e your example with the kids and your father. Why do you think your father winds up on the computer? It gives him something to do AWAY from your husband!!! And, excuse me, but why does your husband feel the need to say your father doesn't DO ANYTHING. Um, hello....not his house, not his responsibility. When your Dad comes over he is a visiting, not paid staff. Sheesh.
Also, what's so hard about raking and doing the windows in one day by yourself? Give me a break. You need to be involved in every single thing he does or "nothing will get done" and he's going to flip out? What is wrong with his arms and legs? They don't work? Does he just supervise? You can't spend half the day with your MOTHER! Good grief, I can only imagine what he would say if you wanted to spend time with a friend instead.
He makes your son repeat sentences over and over? Forget about how you like being married to a man that does that. Imagine being the child that has a father that does that! *THIS* *THIS RIGHT HERE* should be your motivation. Your strength. If you think that staying while he treats you the way he does in front of them and treats your children this way is giving them more than you ever could alone...you could not be MORE WRONG. They need love, not fancy things.
Please, please, please find yourself a counselor that specializes in domestic abuse. Or find a support group in your area that you can go to while he is at work. You need to hear it from other people that know. You can want him to say he's wrong, and imperfect and he will change for the rest of your life but that your will is not going to change him. And, there will be times where he admits fault (partially) and you will feel lifted and hopeful...and then in a few days he'll be right back to the old stuff. Just look in this thread how many ups and downs you have had already. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO.
If he hit you, would you still be there? This is no different. I personally feel that the scars from the emotional abuse run much deeper. Don't worry about what his friends think, or who is telling what, just worry about yourself and your kids.
Control is not Love. It isn't. So glad to hear you say that out loud.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 78
I had to laugh out loud when I read your 'good grief' about if I were going out with a friend instead. That made me feel better in that moment.
Thanks.
I hear what you're saying. I really do. And yet I'm still going to hold on for a bit until the counselling sessions.
You're right, he may never, ever, ever change.
That's a very sobering thought.
I just don't want things to get worse. Yet, there again I'm sure that you are right and if they don't get better then they will indeed get worse.
I'm going to breathe and move my feet. Today was a good day.
My parents are amazing because they see how he is but they're still trying to set an example.
Yesterday evening my father washed the dishes and cleaned the kitchen for me. He even had my husband helping a little bit.
I'm so thankful for my parents, their strength, and their willingness to forgive. My father's mother is quite ruthless. She makes my husband look like an amateur when it comes to this stuff.
My late Grandfather was treated horribly by her but back then divorce just never happened. She was physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive to her husband and her children.
My father vowed to never hurt people like she did.
My mother was abused as well.
I grew up with a lot of talking and understanding being demonstrated. My parents are very strong people.
So, for my father, handling my husband doesn't even make him bat an eyelash. My grandmother's still alive. She has her abusive cycles almost on a daily basis. Thankful that my Grandfather doesn't have to live through that anymore.
My Grandfather was an amazing man of faith.
I want his faith, his trust, his strength, but I hope that I do not choose to live the same life he lived.
I know I'll be back. Maybe if I'm lucky enough it won't be for a few days.
I am trying to focus on positive things. Am I in denial. I'm not sure. Really.
Positive: he hasn't been interfering when I discipline the kids, not since I talked to him about that... 3 weeks ago.
I told him that just because I deal with our children differently (talk to them to find out why they're upset instead of just sending them to the corner) doesn't make it wrong.
Thanks.
I hear what you're saying. I really do. And yet I'm still going to hold on for a bit until the counselling sessions.
You're right, he may never, ever, ever change.
That's a very sobering thought.
I just don't want things to get worse. Yet, there again I'm sure that you are right and if they don't get better then they will indeed get worse.
I'm going to breathe and move my feet. Today was a good day.
My parents are amazing because they see how he is but they're still trying to set an example.
Yesterday evening my father washed the dishes and cleaned the kitchen for me. He even had my husband helping a little bit.
I'm so thankful for my parents, their strength, and their willingness to forgive. My father's mother is quite ruthless. She makes my husband look like an amateur when it comes to this stuff.
My late Grandfather was treated horribly by her but back then divorce just never happened. She was physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive to her husband and her children.
My father vowed to never hurt people like she did.
My mother was abused as well.
I grew up with a lot of talking and understanding being demonstrated. My parents are very strong people.
So, for my father, handling my husband doesn't even make him bat an eyelash. My grandmother's still alive. She has her abusive cycles almost on a daily basis. Thankful that my Grandfather doesn't have to live through that anymore.
My Grandfather was an amazing man of faith.
I want his faith, his trust, his strength, but I hope that I do not choose to live the same life he lived.
I know I'll be back. Maybe if I'm lucky enough it won't be for a few days.
I am trying to focus on positive things. Am I in denial. I'm not sure. Really.
Positive: he hasn't been interfering when I discipline the kids, not since I talked to him about that... 3 weeks ago.
I told him that just because I deal with our children differently (talk to them to find out why they're upset instead of just sending them to the corner) doesn't make it wrong.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 112
Glad I was able to make you laugh, with the 'good grief' comment. I seem to be on a Peanuts kick lately. Probably because when my mother talks she truly sounds like the school teacher...wah, wah, waaaah, wahhhhhh.
Ultimately, you need to do, and will do whatever it right for you.
Just know that everything I am saying to you, I am saying as if we were good girlfriends chatting over coffee. I know sometimes the internet makes it hard to read tones and sometimes I go back and read things and think to myself "I hope she understands how I mean that." I just want you to see the situations you talk about from an outside perspective. Sometimes that is hard to do and sometimes you really, really, really need someone to help you look at things differently.
I am so glad you have such supportive parents, that not only are there for you, but both understand what you are going through in some capacity - it is a little different since their experience is with their parents though (you can't pick your parents, you can pick your spouse and you expect them to love, cherish and respect you when you do!). Lean on them, confide in them if you need to. You really need an outlet when you are in this situation. It's very hard to take it on by yourself especially when there are days you are questioning yourself and are constantly being told you are to blame. Even though YOU know it's not true, sometimes it helps to hear it from someone else.
Ultimately, you need to do, and will do whatever it right for you.
Just know that everything I am saying to you, I am saying as if we were good girlfriends chatting over coffee. I know sometimes the internet makes it hard to read tones and sometimes I go back and read things and think to myself "I hope she understands how I mean that." I just want you to see the situations you talk about from an outside perspective. Sometimes that is hard to do and sometimes you really, really, really need someone to help you look at things differently.
I am so glad you have such supportive parents, that not only are there for you, but both understand what you are going through in some capacity - it is a little different since their experience is with their parents though (you can't pick your parents, you can pick your spouse and you expect them to love, cherish and respect you when you do!). Lean on them, confide in them if you need to. You really need an outlet when you are in this situation. It's very hard to take it on by yourself especially when there are days you are questioning yourself and are constantly being told you are to blame. Even though YOU know it's not true, sometimes it helps to hear it from someone else.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
I can't recall the title of the book, something like "why does he do that" but there's a thread on the F&F of A's board with excerpts from that book and you'd probably find a lot of value in reading it. Your H is not a great guy from the sounds of it. He is an abuser and that has nothing to do with being an ACoA. Abuse is abuse and he is abusing you.
I was married (still am but am divorcing him) to an ACoA who is an alcoholic and who has emotionally abused me for the past 8 yrs. I felt the hairs on my neck stand up when I read your posts bc you sound so much like me.
Emotionally abusive individuals are the most dangerous I think bc there's no scars to prove what they are doing but they warp our sense of reality and cause us to question ourselves when we shouldn't.
I bought a copy of the Why Does He Do That book and another called the Emotionally Abusive Relationship and they both have been very valuable in terms of realizing that I'm not alone in what I've lived with.
Sending support and warm thoughts your way.
I was married (still am but am divorcing him) to an ACoA who is an alcoholic and who has emotionally abused me for the past 8 yrs. I felt the hairs on my neck stand up when I read your posts bc you sound so much like me.
Emotionally abusive individuals are the most dangerous I think bc there's no scars to prove what they are doing but they warp our sense of reality and cause us to question ourselves when we shouldn't.
I bought a copy of the Why Does He Do That book and another called the Emotionally Abusive Relationship and they both have been very valuable in terms of realizing that I'm not alone in what I've lived with.
Sending support and warm thoughts your way.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy 
I can't recall the title of the book, something like "why does he do that" but there's a thread on the F&F of A's board with excerpts from that book and you'd probably find a lot of value in reading it. Your H is not a great guy from the sounds of it. He is an abuser and that has nothing to do with being an ACoA. Abuse is abuse and he is abusing you.
I was married (still am but am divorcing him) to an ACoA who is an alcoholic and who has emotionally abused me for the past 8 yrs. I felt the hairs on my neck stand up when I read your posts bc you sound so much like me.
Emotionally abusive individuals are the most dangerous I think bc there's no scars to prove what they are doing but they warp our sense of reality and cause us to question ourselves when we shouldn't.
I was married (still am but am divorcing him) to an ACoA who is an alcoholic and who has emotionally abused me for the past 8 yrs. I felt the hairs on my neck stand up when I read your posts bc you sound so much like me.
Emotionally abusive individuals are the most dangerous I think bc there's no scars to prove what they are doing but they warp our sense of reality and cause us to question ourselves when we shouldn't.
Yep. What she said.
I hope you are not posting because the last few days have been more peaceful. You take the good days any time you can get them, even when you know they won't last.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 78
my life today:)
I completely appreciate how supportive people are on here. I know that it's like people chatting over coffee and honestly, everything and anything that anyone has ever said on here only has caused me to evaluate my life and situation. I haven't ever been angry about anyone's straight-forward talk, I really do appreciate it.
I haven't been on all week because this week has gone soooo incredibly well. Ever since the issue of fighting with my husband to be allowed to go out for the day I haven't had any real issues with him.
I'm taking the good days for what they are and it's just been better than it's been in... I'm thinking a year or more.
Actually, the only issue I'm having today is that I've spoken with Counsellor J and she got kind of upset with me.
The psychiatrist said that I should tell her why I don't want to come back to her. That way she'll get feedback and everything.
I had an appointment with her and then I completely forgot to go. I had a second appointment with her but something happened and I was unable to go. I was supposed to finally go this morning but my youngest was up repeatedly in the night so he couldn't go to the sitter's while I went to the appointment. I had apologized for missing before and did my best to always give her notice as soon as I could.
So, since the appointment was supposed to be at 9 am this morning I thought that it'd be acceptable for me to just call her at that time instead.
I guess it wasn't. It seemed like a good idea.
She was nice at first. I told her that I was not going to be seeing her anymore and that the psychiatrist suggested that I let her know why.
I explained that I felt she was biased because of how she had seemingly protected my husband when I started to tell a story of something he had said to me.
(If you forgot
me: "So then my husband said,...."
J: "That doesn't sound like him."
me: "uhhh....do.. you..think that I'm lying?"
J: "No, it's just that I've had him in here and he doesn't talk like that."
Then I proceeded to say that I've had a psychiatrist as well as another counsellor tell me that doing marriage counselling with a couple and then seeing them both individually is not advised. It has the potential for problems (such as bias).
Long story short, she was not very happy with me by the end of the conversation and said that she was very busy and that she could be using this time to instead be helping someone who needed it.
I called my Mom and told her the whole story. She said that it was good that we didn’t keep talking and talking or anything because in situations like that it’s usually best to not really say much (when the person’s upset).
I learned something though, I’m naïve. Well, actually I already knew that but I learned that you have to be careful with who you trust. After that conversation I felt like, ‘why even bother with counsellors when you can get so burned?’.
But just because there are people who will steer you wrong doesn’t mean that everyone’s like that. I’m just learning that I need to be a little more careful when it comes to the ‘professionals’.
Good news though, I took everyone’s advice and found a counsellor who works with domestic abuse and domestic violence issues. I am so thankful to have found her!! She’s already got me doing things that I can do to better disarm an argument and combating lies that are told so that I don’t internalize the things said to me.
Yes, I always have a choice to leave if I want but if I’m choosing to stay for now. I feel better about myself and am remembering that it is my duty to stand up for myself and for my children.
It’s going well so far. Maybe....just MAYBE I can be the story of the woman who made it even when all hope seemed lost.
I started going to Al-Anon now too. I’m really appreciating the people there and how they work so much on themselves rather than even trying to change those around them. I’m not saying that my husband doesn’t need to change or anything. I’m just saying that I’m learning how to stay strong despite the things said to me. I don’t have to take it and internalize it.
And y’know what? It’s extremely hard to keep positive sometimes and continually give things up to God. I mean, it’s really hard but I stick to the knowing that God made me and He see’s me. And by faith I’m trusting that He’ll get me through.
It's a good day. And yep there are always murky waters ahead but at least this breather can be a great chance for me to get stronger so that when I'm thrown about (figuratively) then I can still manage to stand when the chaos ends.
Just really thankful for the sunshine today.
I ordered that "Why Does He Do That?" book. I'm soooo looking forward to reading that.
I haven't been on all week because this week has gone soooo incredibly well. Ever since the issue of fighting with my husband to be allowed to go out for the day I haven't had any real issues with him.
I'm taking the good days for what they are and it's just been better than it's been in... I'm thinking a year or more.
Actually, the only issue I'm having today is that I've spoken with Counsellor J and she got kind of upset with me.
The psychiatrist said that I should tell her why I don't want to come back to her. That way she'll get feedback and everything.
I had an appointment with her and then I completely forgot to go. I had a second appointment with her but something happened and I was unable to go. I was supposed to finally go this morning but my youngest was up repeatedly in the night so he couldn't go to the sitter's while I went to the appointment. I had apologized for missing before and did my best to always give her notice as soon as I could.
So, since the appointment was supposed to be at 9 am this morning I thought that it'd be acceptable for me to just call her at that time instead.
I guess it wasn't. It seemed like a good idea.
She was nice at first. I told her that I was not going to be seeing her anymore and that the psychiatrist suggested that I let her know why.
I explained that I felt she was biased because of how she had seemingly protected my husband when I started to tell a story of something he had said to me.
(If you forgot
me: "So then my husband said,...."
J: "That doesn't sound like him."
me: "uhhh....do.. you..think that I'm lying?"
J: "No, it's just that I've had him in here and he doesn't talk like that."
Then I proceeded to say that I've had a psychiatrist as well as another counsellor tell me that doing marriage counselling with a couple and then seeing them both individually is not advised. It has the potential for problems (such as bias).
Long story short, she was not very happy with me by the end of the conversation and said that she was very busy and that she could be using this time to instead be helping someone who needed it.
I called my Mom and told her the whole story. She said that it was good that we didn’t keep talking and talking or anything because in situations like that it’s usually best to not really say much (when the person’s upset).
I learned something though, I’m naïve. Well, actually I already knew that but I learned that you have to be careful with who you trust. After that conversation I felt like, ‘why even bother with counsellors when you can get so burned?’.
But just because there are people who will steer you wrong doesn’t mean that everyone’s like that. I’m just learning that I need to be a little more careful when it comes to the ‘professionals’.
Good news though, I took everyone’s advice and found a counsellor who works with domestic abuse and domestic violence issues. I am so thankful to have found her!! She’s already got me doing things that I can do to better disarm an argument and combating lies that are told so that I don’t internalize the things said to me.
Yes, I always have a choice to leave if I want but if I’m choosing to stay for now. I feel better about myself and am remembering that it is my duty to stand up for myself and for my children.
It’s going well so far. Maybe....just MAYBE I can be the story of the woman who made it even when all hope seemed lost.
I started going to Al-Anon now too. I’m really appreciating the people there and how they work so much on themselves rather than even trying to change those around them. I’m not saying that my husband doesn’t need to change or anything. I’m just saying that I’m learning how to stay strong despite the things said to me. I don’t have to take it and internalize it.
And y’know what? It’s extremely hard to keep positive sometimes and continually give things up to God. I mean, it’s really hard but I stick to the knowing that God made me and He see’s me. And by faith I’m trusting that He’ll get me through.
It's a good day. And yep there are always murky waters ahead but at least this breather can be a great chance for me to get stronger so that when I'm thrown about (figuratively) then I can still manage to stand when the chaos ends.
Just really thankful for the sunshine today.
I ordered that "Why Does He Do That?" book. I'm soooo looking forward to reading that.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12
wifeofanACoA like you I am so glad to have found this site. I too am the wife of an ACOA. Glad to hear you are getting help, don't let it go as far as I let my situation go. I ended up having panick attacks and was put on anxiety medication. I also resigned from my job because I just couldn't handle full time work, three kids and him. I have been home for a year now and am doing much better. In the past few years we consulted therapists who concluded that he need help. Problem is he never follows through with therapy. Recently we got into a huge argument and I told him to leave, that I had enough. He turned it around to make it sound like the problem was mine and decided to get on the phone to book an appointment with a therapist for the two of us. I was thrilled and encouraged him to do so. A couple of days later he said we had no problems and decided to cancel. Its the same story for us over and over again. The first step to our recovery is to acknowledge that we are not to blame in their unhappiness. The only thing I can blame myself for is for encouraging that behaviour by giving in to everything he wanted just to keep him happy. He's still miserable and I became a wreck. Good luck to you and I hope everything works out for the best (with or without him). God bless you!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 78
today
Wow. I really don't want my life to be like that. Ups and downs and him never taking responsibility but always placing blame...on someone else (usually me).
However, to a huge degree that has become my life.
I'm starting to watch for patterns with him. There was a big mess on the second week in September and then again the second week in October. Won't it be very interesting if it happens again the second week in November?
I've been thinking a lot about things. I read that "Why Does He Do That?" book in a couple of days. I couldn't put it down (unless I absolutely had to) because it spoke volumes to me.
I realize more and more all the time what he does and why. Knowledge really is power because sometimes I'm able to see where the discussion is going and able to re-route it.
It's hard to not wait around for him to charge me with something but I am trying to accept the good phases for what they are. Just good phases and I'm being more realistic in knowing that my life will go something like: good, good, good, very bad, good, good, extremely bad, fight depression, fight insecurities, good, good, very bad...
But I've thought a lot about it and I'm deciding to stay with him while our children are young.
I can just hear a million people banging their heads against a wall but things are never as simple as we would like them to be.
At least I'm with my children 90 per cent of the time. I've gained enough confidence back to be able to tell him to not act in certain ways. Sure he gets upset but at least I'm sticking to what's right - even though I honestly wind up shaking when I stand up to him if he's really annoyed.
Point is, if we separated or divorced he'd have them half the time and I wouldn't be there. I wouldn't be there to say that he's not acting right and I wouldn't be there to remind my children that it's not their fault.
I realize that there are some who would think me crazy. I get that. But I also realize because I am beginning to trust my instincts again that being able to be at the front lines is better than not being able to be there at all for my children.
Things have been going better for the last couple of weeks. I realize that it could last for a bit and then crumble at my feet but life is calm right now nonetheless.
Do I wish that life were different? Oh, definitely yes. I wish that he'd realize that he has problems but if it goes like everyone else who seems to have the same story then it is highly unlikely that anything will ever change long-term.
If he ever hits me I have a plan of what I would do. But if he never hits me then I plan to stay. Either way you look at it I still am abused now - even without the hits. I know that now.
At least now the big difference with learning all of this stuff; who he is, why he does that, his blaming game - at least now I know what I'm up against.
Without a hit I don't believe that I could win my children because he's got so much against me. I'm the one who was sent to the psychiatrist, I'm the one who's been to counselling, and I'm the one who hit him 5 years ago. And he's very manipulative, although he claims that I am that way.
I'm very thankful for you all. For those who are going through it, I'm sorry but I can relate. For those beyond it, I am very excited to one day be where you are. I won't be here forever. I'm realizing that I don't have to. God hates divorce, strong words I know, but God never wanted a woman to suffer abuse under the control of an angry man. I really believe that.
Jesus changed all the norms. He spoke to women in a time and culture when no one cared to hear from them. He liberated women from being just objects to claiming them in love and as equals to men. We are equals and that doesn't mean I can bench press 200 or that a man can have a baby. There are very obvious things that the other sex cannot do. However, we are still equals. We are still entitled to all the rights they have; a place to speak, having our opinions heard, not being scared by our partners, saying no to something that makes us uncomfortable, and not having to say where we are every second of the day. No double standards allowed. I'm human too.
One day when our children are grown and I don't have to worry about a custody battle then I can be fully free. Here's to hoping that he can change before that day comes, and here's to remembering that when he doesn't that I can leave knowing I tried my best.
However, to a huge degree that has become my life.
I'm starting to watch for patterns with him. There was a big mess on the second week in September and then again the second week in October. Won't it be very interesting if it happens again the second week in November?
I've been thinking a lot about things. I read that "Why Does He Do That?" book in a couple of days. I couldn't put it down (unless I absolutely had to) because it spoke volumes to me.
I realize more and more all the time what he does and why. Knowledge really is power because sometimes I'm able to see where the discussion is going and able to re-route it.
It's hard to not wait around for him to charge me with something but I am trying to accept the good phases for what they are. Just good phases and I'm being more realistic in knowing that my life will go something like: good, good, good, very bad, good, good, extremely bad, fight depression, fight insecurities, good, good, very bad...
But I've thought a lot about it and I'm deciding to stay with him while our children are young.
I can just hear a million people banging their heads against a wall but things are never as simple as we would like them to be.
At least I'm with my children 90 per cent of the time. I've gained enough confidence back to be able to tell him to not act in certain ways. Sure he gets upset but at least I'm sticking to what's right - even though I honestly wind up shaking when I stand up to him if he's really annoyed.
Point is, if we separated or divorced he'd have them half the time and I wouldn't be there. I wouldn't be there to say that he's not acting right and I wouldn't be there to remind my children that it's not their fault.
I realize that there are some who would think me crazy. I get that. But I also realize because I am beginning to trust my instincts again that being able to be at the front lines is better than not being able to be there at all for my children.
Things have been going better for the last couple of weeks. I realize that it could last for a bit and then crumble at my feet but life is calm right now nonetheless.
Do I wish that life were different? Oh, definitely yes. I wish that he'd realize that he has problems but if it goes like everyone else who seems to have the same story then it is highly unlikely that anything will ever change long-term.
If he ever hits me I have a plan of what I would do. But if he never hits me then I plan to stay. Either way you look at it I still am abused now - even without the hits. I know that now.
At least now the big difference with learning all of this stuff; who he is, why he does that, his blaming game - at least now I know what I'm up against.
Without a hit I don't believe that I could win my children because he's got so much against me. I'm the one who was sent to the psychiatrist, I'm the one who's been to counselling, and I'm the one who hit him 5 years ago. And he's very manipulative, although he claims that I am that way.
I'm very thankful for you all. For those who are going through it, I'm sorry but I can relate. For those beyond it, I am very excited to one day be where you are. I won't be here forever. I'm realizing that I don't have to. God hates divorce, strong words I know, but God never wanted a woman to suffer abuse under the control of an angry man. I really believe that.
Jesus changed all the norms. He spoke to women in a time and culture when no one cared to hear from them. He liberated women from being just objects to claiming them in love and as equals to men. We are equals and that doesn't mean I can bench press 200 or that a man can have a baby. There are very obvious things that the other sex cannot do. However, we are still equals. We are still entitled to all the rights they have; a place to speak, having our opinions heard, not being scared by our partners, saying no to something that makes us uncomfortable, and not having to say where we are every second of the day. No double standards allowed. I'm human too.
One day when our children are grown and I don't have to worry about a custody battle then I can be fully free. Here's to hoping that he can change before that day comes, and here's to remembering that when he doesn't that I can leave knowing I tried my best.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 78
Hopencope,
You can make it through. Whether it's with him or without him. I'm thinking of you and I can relate. I had a panic attack back within the last year. Hoping that never happens again.
You'll get stronger, I know you can.
You can make it through. Whether it's with him or without him. I'm thinking of you and I can relate. I had a panic attack back within the last year. Hoping that never happens again.
You'll get stronger, I know you can.
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