DavidCole

Agree that A great guy wouldn't treat anyone like this, especially not his wife.

DavidG

Hmmm you could be teling the story my wife told about 20 years ago-

perfectionism- blaming others but myself..

we are all in this together...

Growing up with addiction to alcohol, or any other illness means that the boundaries are really blurred. The person puts on a really brave face, but underneath is angry and confused.

I am a newbie here, not sure what all the rules are. Hearing your experience is healthy.

Firstly- airing what is bothering you is the first step. Learning more about what is going on- a real credit to you.

Breaking the cycle of alcoholism down through the generations can be done, in my experience. :ghug3 [it cannot be guaranteed, of course.]

Someone has so make a move- take the first step. I will look out for more of your posts.

Thanks for your share-

DavidG
New Zealand.

wifeofanACoA

Well, here I am again.

Time's gone by hasn't it? I guess I stayed away for so long because I was trying to hold on to the good that's been happening and trying to not focus on the bad.

We've gone to the marriage counsellor. Man! He's been great and we also went to a marriage retreat. Things have been getting better. But of course, things in life are not always so easy and people don't change over night.

He still does some of the same things but I'm doing okay. I'm not blubbering in a corner and believing the things that he says.

Like I said, we've been going to counselling and I was COMPLETELY ready to walk out the door on our marriage. Actually, I still am ready to leave but the counsellor is asking that we give him 6 months to work with us. That will bring us to August.

There is such a big part of me that wants to believe that things can change and stay changed but then he goes and does something stupid again.

That "stupid again" was yesterday.
He had been gone for two weeks and prior to those two weeks everything had been going well enough.
Well, he came home and (I knew this was going to happen) I didn't meet his expectations with regards to how I greeted him.
I was typing something on the computer that I needed to finish for church music. Well, I said "Hi". He hugged me and I hugged him back and I continued on the computer. He kissed me on the neck (which I don't really like because it's too personal) and I sort of grimaced. Of course, he wanted to know why and I said that I don't really like it when he kisses me on the neck. I've said that before so it's nothing that he doesn't know.

Well, before you know it he's upset/hurt/angry/bothered/annoyed because "Why do you have to be like that? Why are you trying to ruin us? Why are you like that?"
And then the conversation continues for forever and all because I didn't greet him in the way that he was expecting. Man! I get so tired of this sort of thing.
Everything becomes my fault because I'm "not normal" (according to him) and "I'm trying to take us back to a place where we don't communicate" or something rather.
I don't know why he thinks so much that everything he feels has to be centred on what I do. I mean, it's like how I act is wrong and then he's completely allowed to become severely depressed and blame me for it.

He's sleeping in the basement again. I never told him to go there. He's bugging me so much. Barely talks and when he did (yesterday) it's just to go on and on about how I'm not "being normal" and no one would ever act like that and I'm so this.. I'm so that. Y'know everything that I've heard before.

I don't get it.

I just would like to be with someone who wouldn't feel the need to blame me for everything - like, their own mood.
Because he's got it in his head that I've ruined everything and so now I want nothing to do with him.

When we were arguing and he didn't like how I reacted to his being home (not enough enthusiasm) then over the next half hour to an hour, he kept coming back again at how I should be when he comes home. And I was like, "Okay. Fine. I'll just pretend then."

Well, then everything falls apart even more because he keeps going and prying and it's kind of weird because he keeps becoming more and more negative about how what I am and what I do is wrong... and the next thing I know I'm like: "Okay. You're right. I don't like being around you. I don't like things in our marriage."

Truth is, I was glad that he was coming home but even before he walked through that door I was thinking, "I hope he goes downstairs and sees the kids first because if I don't act in the way he's expecting then all hell is going to break loose."
Lucky me, because he came upstairs first and didn't like how I was not affectionate enough.

Trying to make it to another counselling session... again. We had to miss the last one because he was gone for work for these two weeks.

I don't want to be with this person. I don't think he's going to change.
How's this going to end?

Things had been going so well with the counsellor and then we miss one time and the walls of life come crashing down around me.

He's got this screwed up way of becoming such a victim. He just becomes this person who feels like and acts like everything I do is done so that he can be hurt.

I wish he'd get help because it's days like this that make me realize that come August I'll be hanging up this marriage.

I don't kid myself though. Life's going to be very hard if there's going to be a divorce in my life. But, if he's going to keep us this pattern then I don't think I should be here.

I don't want to quit because I like my life (minus his crazy episodes) but what happens if I start believing his stupid thinking again? I'm not going back to that place.

I just wish he'd get help. I just wish he'd really look at himself instead of picking at what I don't do for him. sucks.

DavidG

My wife too is the wife of an ACoA...

Three months before we were married she suggested i go along to Alanon.
I am still in Alanon. Alanon gave me a good base- I learned to trust people and i learned not to blame other people for everything.

ACA gives me a lot of hope... and the tools to lead a normal life.

I was not to blame for the background I had... but I had to turn round and learn to take responsibility for myself.

The walls and defences were high...

I believe that in a marriage we have to give it our best shot.
People have choices, and good to make well informed choices...

I wish you and your family well...:ghug3

-David.
NZ.

SLady

WifeofanACoA, is it possible that your husband has an undiagnosed personality disorder? Did the counsellor said anything that may throw some light on his behaviour? Did you tell him that you believe your husband is emotionally abusive towards you?

The reason I said this, my ACOA husband does not exhibit the same kind of behaviour. He is not emotionally abusive, he has no mood swings, he is not manipulative - in fact quite the opposite - he is trusting to a fault which makes him an easy target to people who want to manipulate and take advantage of him.

The last time I wrote on this forum, we were going through a very rough patch in our marriage. At that time, my husband was behaving 'out of character'. Due to outside influence - this crazy woman who claimed she is my husband's daughter whom he never knew existed (when she is not) and set out to manipulate him and suceeded! Eventually coming between the two us and almost broke up our marriage. I fell quite ill with her crazymaking at that time.

Workin

(Deleted)

wifeofanACoA

From April to now (October)-

I come back here again when I just need someone to squeeze my shoulder and say...

"You can do it, marriage is hard no matter what."
"You're being stupid and you need to get out of there."
"I'm praying for you."
"I've been there and look, NOW I'm happy and still married."

I honestly come because I don't have people around me who can understand what I'm going through - Yes, those who try but not those who understand.

We're still going to the marriage counsellor, my husband has stopped sometime in the last 4...months? blaming me for everything. So, that's positive.

But things could still always be better.

I feel like things will never truly be better and I realize that now I am partly to blame for this.

Almost 2 months ago we got into a huge argument about something sex-related. Bottom line was that I agree based on guilt and obligation. Not that he was pressuring or anything (positive) but when I wasn't as 'happy' about it as he was then he made a comment along the lines of, "Are you going to do whatever you can to not enjoy this?" (Honestly, makes me sick thinking about it.)

Well, I got upset because I had ALREADY SAID, prior to his little comment that NO I was not interested in having sex with him. I was consenting to sleep with him because it was something he wanted and I merely felt obligated.
Bunch of yelling, him walking away and acting like I'm the one who started everything, me leaving the house, almost slept all night in the vehicle...

Well, whatever...

Life had been going better, even with that whole situation.
I was very unwilling to open up to him again and felt like I could not trust him to avoid becoming an obsessive, control-freak again.
But I began forgiving him and after much talking (this was all prior to the sex-thing) on countless nights and several trips to the counsellor..
I was willing to try to work on us.

He acted like things would be better and they were.
I opened up to him about feeling hurt and not being capable of much more than I was offering because I didn't trust him. I talked about not wanting to feel vulnerable and have him stomp on me again if I opened up to him. Hah!

So, life is better, a lot better - moving forward and I'm opening up. Life is better, marriage is better.
Then the sex-thing and the next day I was able to hug him and kiss him despite everything because I thought, "It's okay. Things are better. He says he loves me and always will. I can learn to trust him."
But after I hugged him and kissed him he completely backed away. No, not in that instant but for 2 days he barely spoke to me, wouldn't say good-bye when he left for work (which he always did), and when I called him on his behaviour?...
He could have been reading a script because he said,
'He was feeling hurt and not capable of much more than he was offering because he didn't trust me. Talked about not wanting to feel vulnerable and have me stomp on him again..." - sound familiar?

He started regurgitating everything I had been saying to him prior to us finally working to mend things. I cannot begin to explain how frustrating that was.
I am NOT saying that he is not allowed to feel those things. But for YEARS he has not verbalized it like this and then voila! He says what I have been saying almost word for word. I felt mocked but he wasn't mocking me, not like that, he was being serious.

Well, he moved himself to the basement where he's been for the last month? and he's pulled away a lot and here I sit.

I feel a fool. I should've known that the second I started to trust him again he'd pull away and flip things around.
It was seriously as though when I finally said, "Okay. I can begin to trust and forgive. It's going to be okay," that he pulled back (like never before, mind you) and changed the whole game.

Now I hear about how he's hurt and how he knows it's best for him to be downstairs and stuff. BUT! If you can try to see from my point (because those aren't bad things to say) he keeps going in the opposite direction from wherever I stand.

HIM - I love you. Let's try.
ME - Hurting still.
HIM - I love you. Let's try.
ME - Trying to forgive.
HIM - I love you. Let's try.
ME - Choosing to forgive.
HIM - I love you. Let's try.
ME - You're right.
HIM - I love you. Let's try.
ME - Yes. Let's try. I do still love you.
HIM - Hurting. I'm going to the basement. I don't know how I feel about you anymore.
ME - Wha?!

Honestly, I feel more lost now than 6 months ago.
I felt hopeless before but now there's something deeper than that.
I feel a deeper pain in realizing that my hopelessness can run deeper than before.

I now get to feel the pain of having no hope personally while being married to a person who offers no hope.

It was as though, when things seemed brighter - he was willing to try. Now after pursuing reconciliation and being met with rejection - I am full of rejection toward him and from him.

I've come to a brand new low. The kind of low where you realize that you've been holding on because of children and now that's the only reason he's holding on as well.
I'm the marriage that raises kids and then divorces. I was that (on my side) before and now it's unanimous.

Good news is that I'll be heading back to my lovely personal counsellor. That's what made me type tonight, the realization that I've been backing away from things I love (music, exercise, people..) and seeing no concrete positives in life.

I know. I know. It's easy right? Just forgive and love him in his pain. I don't think I have it in me. I'm just thankful for being able to function and keep my depression to after 9pm while my children sleep.

I just wanted someone who loved me for me (from the start). That’s the stupid thing about marrying someone you don’t know for a long, long time and marrying young. Made my bed...

DavidG

The mindset of the adult child, even like myself who tries not to follow the old family pattern, is that everyone is out to get me.

Learning to believe that this is not true is a great relief.

It goes against everything I learned as a child.

I do have to be born again... and learn to live as I should.

Nice to hear from you...

David.

farfaraway

Your husband sounds just like my father. My father is an ACOA and a recovered alcoholic.... well, he doesn't drink anymore. But drunk or sober, he's abused and terrorized his family my entire life. I'm 31.

One of my earliest memories is of my mother, super proud, showing us something that she made in ceramics class. Later that night my father flipped out over something unimportant, and purposely broke what my mother made. I was about 4 I guess. At that time, my parents had been married about 9 years. Slowly she stopped doing anything really, and mostly just watched tv. She gave up.

I can tell you from my own experience that I grew up having absolutely no respect for my mother. She hadn't worked outside the home in many years, and she was dependent on my father financially. I hated my father for controlling us all (successfully) with his money and his anger. And I thought my mother was pathetic for not doing anything to change it. And that she did nothing to protect us from him, is something that I still haven't completely forgiven her for.

I ended up marrying a wonderful man and moving out of the country. Nothing "back home" has changed. Soon I will be visiting my family. The last time I saw them, I hadn't been on SR and was blissfully unaware that my feelings and upbringing is not how it's supposed to be. This will be the first time I will be facing my father, knowing him for what he is: an abuser. This thread has been very helpful to me, and I thank you for sharing. And I'm sorry to hear that you are still suffering.

I hope what I wrote hasn't made you feel bad. I'm not sure how old your kids are, or what they see when he's out of control. I know you are not like my mother, because I have read this thread now from beginning to end. You have not given up. DON'T!!!!

But if you want to divorce, then DO IT. "Staying together for the kids" is an awful responsibility to saddle them with. Even if you haven't told them in so many words, they know. I used to pray to God that my parents would get divorced or that my father would drop dead. You don't want your kids doing that.

Mracoa

I'm the acoa in our marriage, and I'm far from the perfect husband. I'm less into control and more into avoiding conflict. But I see some of my actions reflected in your comments.

I have a very difficult time expressing my emotions in a healthy way. Heck, many times I'm not sure if I'm angry, sad or afraid. I've learned the difference between angry and sad. But when I'm fearful of something, I often confuse it for one or the other (not both).

So for example, if my wife stays out late with friends, instead of asking her to come home because I miss her and want to spend time with her, I tell her to come home, because she has no business being out late. That's controlling. We have had some issues over that, and a few other things. I feel that I'm right in asking her to come home. She feels she is right in being able to go out for a drink with her friends after a play (she volunteers at a community theatre).

So our pattern became to state our positions, and we each claimed we were both right and we stopped talking about it. However, when she would come right home to be with me, I was still mad at her, and would avoid her. I wanted her to apologize and admit I was right (I can see the manipulation there, and I'm not proud of that). So, she started staying out late more often. But we still didn't discuss the root of the problem, we just kept our focus on the symptom. I had turned it to Anger, anger that she didn't respect me. And she in turn was angry that I wouldn't meet her halfway, and when she did reach out to me, I backed away. But the root of the problem was that I was insecure. I was fearful that she would hook up with another guy and cheat on me. But, that was the elephant in the room we didn't want to talk about.

There is a lot more to my story. But I won't hijack your thread. I guess I'm just wondering if you figured out what your elephant is? Or are you still discussing the symtoms of the problem?

It sounds like he is looking for more physical affection from you. Without crossing any lines into things you find distasteful, can you accommodate his need for physical attention? Is he doing things in the basement that are disgusting you?

For those prone to additictions (which is common for ACoAs, even if they have never drank). We can become addicted to anything that provides fear or excitement. It doesn't have to be physically addictived. If this is where your husband is at, just being available to him physically isn't going to fix it. He needs to sort some things out in individual therapy, and it will take time. But if you can see it, and he won't admit it. Well, then run. You can't change him, unless he sees that he has a problem and wants to try. In which case, you can't change him. But if he is willing to try, getting individual therapy and joining a group (alanon or ACA) would be a good start.

FindingErica

This sounds alot like my AH, blame shifting, manipulating, ascribing sinister motives to innocent actions, accusing. Your AH sound like a dry drunk and Like he has lots of anger issues. I believed I was to blame for all the problems in the marriage. I havent read this whole thread, I dont really belong on this forum, was just checking it out for someone, so I may be saying the same things as others here. But this is abuse, emotional abuse can be so different than physical abuse, in that it is harder to identify. In physical abuse the bruises and broken bones are identifiable, it is easy to identify physical blows. Emotional abuse can make us think we are the crazy ones, people cant see any physical signs, at times it can be hard to explain . Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me... Right? Wrong!! Words can take a bite right out of your soul.

I just want to add that my father grew up with an alcoholic mother, and though he was not an alcoholic or an addict, and is a raging codie to my addict sister- our family growing up revolved around his anger, temper outbursts and he was very controlling. My step mother is the biggest codie I know. My siblings and I are all either in codie relationships or addicts or both. Actually Im the only one who has zero substance abuse issues and Im the family fixer. One alchoholic/addict can affect generations of their family, they form a sick branch until someone puts a stop to it and grafts in some healthy behavior.

FindingErica

You ARE NOT a fool. He is not having healthy, predictable or normal responses. That can make you feel crazy, foolish, confused. It sounds like he has serious intimacy and trust issues, which he tries to mask with some serious control issues. Sex for you both likely does not result in the expected intimacy, which is why it is no longer of interest to you. It is hard to be trusting and give yourself to the intimacy of sex, to someone who is hurtful and abuses trust. You have learned that whatever you give in love is stomped on.

I am currently in the middle of a divorce after over 18 years of marriage. We have three kids. I was young when we got married, 20. 19 when we started dating. I was sheltered, naive and had a controlling father. He looked like he had it all together and understood how the world worked. You are welcome to PM me if you need support or a listening shoulder.

SLady

Hi WifeofanAcoa, it is nice to hear from you again and I'm sorry to know that you are still struggling.

When I told my husband that I find it hard to trust him again because he hurt me before, or I am not sure how I feel about him or I am not entirely happy in our marriage, he told me it makes him feel like 'giving up on us'. It depresses him, sometimes he even told me he want to 'end it all'. I'm okay now. It has taken me a while to forgive him for the pain he put me through.

It is not apparent during our 20+ marriage, but my husband has abandonment issues. In fact someone pointed out to me that the root of our marital problem is his abandonment issue which has been trigerred.

My guess is your husband may be feeling depressed (worry that you may leave him) and therefore shuts himself up in the basement.

I agree with FindingErica that it is hard to be trusting and give yourself to the intimacy of sex,to someone who is hurtful and abuses trust.But at the same time, I do understand your husband's reaction because I have been refused before. My husband, who is much older than me, has a medical issue which affects our sex life.

I have to say that it really, really hurts and I cannot help but feeling rejected by him. Some men said they rather have no sex than 'duty sex', because when the wife just lie there or told them to hurry up, it can be feel very degrading. Usually, a sex starved marriage is the symptom of a dysfunctional relationship. I have told my husband honestly how I feel, he has taken that onboard, so we no longer fight over sex. I sometimes feel that although he is not intimacy adverse, he also need 'his space'.

The fact that you have not put any exit strategy in place suggested to me that you are not ready to leave him yet, ie., you're still working on your marriage. If that is the case, can you somehow break this unhealthy pattern of him shutting himself up in the basement? Maybe all it needs, is for one of you to say you're sorry?

Is your husband still attending the counselling sessions, or has he given up? Can you encourage him to attend ACA meetings to work on himself?

wifeofanACoA

Well, I don’t know what the “elephant” is in our relationship. I think that we’re very likely still working on the symptoms of things in our relationship, I’m not really sure.

We’re in marriage counselling still (surprise, surprise) so that is a great positive but what one person said about “being addicted to anything that provides fear or excitement” - I have honestly, honestly, honestly believed that he is happiest when there’s some sort of conflict going on.

My husband used to always tell me (early on in marriage) “You’re depressed, you’re sad, you don’t like your life, etc.” and I’d look at him like he just stepped off the mother ship. I’d tell him that I was happy and I liked my life but he’d tell me how I really felt. It was so weird to me but that didn’t stop him from constantly doing things like that.

Even now he’ll say things about wanting a ‘peaceful’ marriage but he’s really playing this new thing where he blocks me out unlike he used to. It’s hard to explain.

We’ve been to counselling for months now. He knows that I believe he was emotionally abusive and that I was ready to leave. He’s really changed in that regard now. He NO LONGER belittles me for silly things, blames me for everything, or flies off the handle for nothing. He’s got more control of things but now... it’s almost as though he’s keeping control by keeping me in this weird place of wanting me to care but now I am only allowed so close to him. It gets so twisted.

Breakdown: I was ready to leave. He begged me to stay. I was still ready to leave and we wound up at counselling. Counselling has helped. I’ve begun a journey to forgive him for his stupidity. Then things are going better and I literally step toward being closer to him and what does he do? He literally puts himself in the basement and steps back and uses my own words to repeat back to me how he feels (not using something he’d normally say but my very own words against me).

I can’t jump the rejection and anger I feel in all of this.
I started reaching out after being EXTREMELY fearful that he’d return to a cruel and controlling man. Well, surprise! He’s no longer cruel and controlling now he’s instead choosing to feign extreme hurt and distrust and is delivering rejection.

He used to say to me (when I was incapable of showing any form of affection) that I was doing it on purpose and to hurt him.
Let me ask you something though? How does someone who is knowingly being abused go and hug that person or kiss that person? I couldn’t do it. I could not!
But he accused me of being happy to be hurting him and rejecting me.
That wasn’t it. I was hurt and not willing to trust someone who had hurt me so much.

Well, I went deep inside and began working to forgive and trust him again. I began to think more positively and actually fall in love with this man again - even so slightly. Then it seemed like the second he realized this he flipped the switch. Not switching to a cruel controller but to a man who realized I cared for him again so he began rejecting me because he could.

I wish I were back where I was. I don’t know that it would necessarily be better than now but I still wish it.
I wish I were back where I didn’t have any feelings for this man and I functioned on the thoughts of, “He doesn’t love me for me but I’m good enough for God and I’ll make it because I have kids to raise.”
Now my thinking has become screwed because I was beginning to trust and love again and I’ve been shot down.

I seriously walked to him and invited him to be beside me. And what happened? He said, “The basement is a better place for me to be right now.”

I don’t talk to him much, not if I don’t have to. I want to tell him things about my life and relationships, feelings, ups, downs, etc. but I do not want to open up to him. It seems like the more he realizes that I have any love for him, the more he denies me in some way or another.

Don’t get me wrong, he still is nice enough and talks to me, tells me about his day, asks blah, blah, blah - but here’s an example;

I told him how I wanted to be closer to him, to have him love me again. I even cried but he just looked at me and talked of feelings of care for me but no love was spoken of. He went on about how things are rough and blah, blah, blah.
This is the same person who like a week prior was claiming undying love. hah! Then he switches and has this new control on things because he can deny me love. He honestly seems happy about this situation.
I hate it.

So, that’s why I say that I’m trying to get back to a place of not wanting anything. I just can’t handle his new rejection attitude.

I just need to really know. Would this be normal? Would a man who says, “I love you, I love you, I love you.” to a woman who’s ready to leave him but she forgives, she stays, and she comes back to him and eventually is able to say, “I love you.”
Would he turn away? Is this normal?

I just really need to know.

He kept saying I love you, I love you, I’ll always love you, etc.
It continued until the day I physically reached out to him and was able to speak it back and hug him and kiss him.
Then he turned away.
Maybe everyone would do this. I really don’t know.

It’s been rocky, that I cannot deny.
But I am beyond thankful for this forum and people like all of you on here. It’s really helped me decipher things in so many ways and realize situations for what they really are.

As of right now, I have no plan for exit.
He’s been good. He isn’t yelling anymore, isn’t blaming me for everything, isn’t demanding and it’s been like this for the last 6 months?
Now my only problem is that I’m living with a man who denies me love because he knows I want to be loved - at least that’s my perception of it.

I’ve had people say, if he had cancer (a sickness) would you leave him? Well, no. But people will say this (being an aca) is the same thing so I shouldn’t leave him in his sickness.

I just know that I’ve got kids to raise, and he’s gone a lot, and I just don’t want a broken home for nothing.
I often wonder if things would ever reeeally be different anywhere else? I’d be with someone new and maybe they’d pull the same stuff. Grass seems greener over there but I wonder if it truly would be.

Did I mention that he now locks the door behind him in every room he goes into where he doesn’t want anyone to come? Bedrooms, bathroom, rooms with locks - he just locks the door. It’s not enough to shut the door, he has to lock it so that if you need to get in you have to knock. He never used to do this - ever. Now he just has to lock any place he goes (if he can) so that no one can get in. Nobody even tries to get in when a door is closed but no, we’ve got to lock everyone out too. I just perceive this as yet another way to reject. He NEVER used to do this.

Oh yeah, and he won’t attend Al-Anon or anything like that. I try to bring it up every few months and he said he’d go but never did. Maybe in another 6 years he’ll go. And as for personal counselling that’s a ‘no’ as well.
It’s enough for him to be in marriage counselling, he doesn’t think he needs anything else.

Mracoa

There is that. If he won't admit he has a problem, and won't try to help himself. There is not much you can do but decide how much you can tolerate.

At some point you are going to have to set a boundry, that either he gets the help he needs, or you are going to split. Not because you don't love him, or want it to work, but because you can't handle him without losing your own sanity. That loss of sanity will affect your kids too. This gets handed down from generation to generation.

There is a concept I read about in an infidelity forum (I know the cause doesn't apply here, but maybe the tactic does). It's call "The 180". I'll list the steps below and adapt them to how you might be able to apply them to dealing with your ACOA. I'm not saying it's a good idea or a bad one. Just an idea.

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

4. Don't follow her/him around the house.

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your partner.

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that your ACOA is serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life...with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available...for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the ACOA, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that you will be around when they need you, no matter how much they dump on you.

By applying the steps above, you can demonstrate your willingness and ability to move on with your life if things don't get better. You are able to do this without threating divorce too early, and while working on healing yourself and trying to get your mental state into a place where you can objectively set that boundry.

Article Source: Boundaries - Save Your Marriage or Relationship with some minor modifications on my part to remove the 'infidelity' overtones. I think the reason these steps work, is that an ACOA trait is to push back and panic when things are going well in the relationship. We become emotionally dishonest with our partners, and ourselves. We don't trust that things are really going well, and in our minds we create a crisis. By esentially refusing to participate in that crisis, the ACOA will need to figure out for themselves what they want from the relationship.

If you decided to try it, please keep us posted on how it works out.

SLady

MrThekla has a point. Instead of begging him to love you, you should set some boundary with him. Tell him to go to ALanon, ACA meetings (give him a deadline) to work on himself or you will leave him. And then focus, on planning an exit strategy.

Based on what you told us, then FindingErica and others are right. This is abuse. Your husband has just change tactics from overt (belittles you for silly things, blames you for everything, or flies off the handle for nothing) to subversive ie., passive aggressive (locked rooms, mind games, playing with your emotions), but it is abuse nevertheless.

Although our husbands are both ACOAs, they are like chalk and cheese, so different from one another.

wifeofanACoA

Haha, I really loved that chalk and cheese analogy.

Well, I definitely am going to try to follow this advice. I need to move on in my life even while in the middle of this relationship. The good news is that I honestly have been doing some of these things. But I find it INCREDIBLY, BEYOND DIFFICULT to be normal amidst all of this.

Y'know it's really quite interesting because tonight I was just thinking, "I should just sit him down and ask him what he wants from all of this."
I was wondering to myself, what do I want? I know my answer: I want someone to love me for me and not play games with me either. I realize that perhaps he's not trying to play games but this back and forth stuff is damaging.

Haha, I also smile at the " Not because you don't love him, or want it to work, but because you can't handle him without losing your own sanity." - bit because that is sooooooooo true.
I feel as though I am just fading away from who I truly am when I try so hard to put up with everything. It's very depressing when you don't know if you're coming or going. I can't ever really know what is coming next. It's very confusing and tiring.

I'm going to do my best to really focus on me (again) and get back to... me. I just... somewhere it became pleasing him or at least trying to figure him out again. And I just.. I don't like it here. I forgot that nothing I ever do, or have ever done in the past, has ever been enough for him. I'm always lacking in his eyes and I was getting my feet under me and now again I feel like my face just hit the floor.

I've got to work on the not being cold thing though. I want to scream at the top of my lungs, "Why are you doing this!!!???" I don't do that by the way, I simply want to. But I just am struggling so hard to not show how much pain he's inflicting that I know I'm coming across more coldly. *sigh*
Moving right along...

I will be heading back to my counsellor sometime soon here but the hard thing is that now she is only available in the evenings. I don't like this because he really seems to like it when I'm in counselling. It bugs me. He has, in the past, taken shots like, "I thought you were going to counselling? But you're still the same. What have you actually been working on?"
I hate that.
I guess it has to not matter because I need to go. I have to re-learn how to focus on me and cope again.
Can't change others. It's me I have to focus on.
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I really do appreciate it.
Today was hard but it got better.

He's not home yet but once he is I just need a plan for me. A plan to be fine. Gosh, it's seriously, ridiculously hard. Need to not show a need for reassurance because it just seems to give him the controls. Thanks. I'm sure I'll be back time and again to read that list

Thanks.

wifeofanACoA

Ah. This is so completely refreshing to read and re-read. I just feel better when I think about myself and self-care. Things are good right now... in me. A good day despite the silly things he's attempted.
Don't want to lose such a wonderful peace in knowing that:

- I can't change him
- I can't make him get help
- I can't do anything EXCEPT

Decide how much I can tolerate.

Gives such peace to remember that I'm going to have to focus on me and what keeps me sane.
<3 that.

wifeofanACoA

Oh, I forgot to mention as well...

I don't know what the 'elephant' is; don't know if it's abandonment issues or what but thanks everyone because I'm seeing that we're just stuck on the symptoms.
I didn't get that the first time around but it's making sense now.

Mracoa

Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear that you found something in my ramblings that might be useful for you.

Best of luck to you, and keep taking good care of yourself.