Kialua

Like others have stated above, I really don't think this is entirely the behavior of ACA. This is just a mean guy that is controlling. It's ultimately your decision if you stay with him. If he ever becomes abusive all bets are off. If he is unreasonable to the point of blowing up in front of the kids that is not good.

There are other issues at play here besides being an Adult child of an alcoholic.

wifeofanACoA

Oh I realize that there are other issues at play here and I do not mean to sound as though only ACoA are like this or anything like that.

I have only come to this site and found that there are people here who are willing to listen, people who give advice, and people who are able to relate to me.

M1k3 - thanks for the words. I have been to Al-Anon and I am now seeing a counsellor who is helping me deal with what I can control. My husband tries to keep me from Al-Anon though because he says that that takes the focus off of myself and I am acting like he has problems when clearly (according to him) I need help.
I'm married to a controlling man who doesn't believe that he is at all.
I really liked your 'do I like her/him?' thought.

Things have changed and are slowly changing.
I know that I can't go on in a life like this and I also can't just wait for things to get worse again.

So, I talked to him several days ago and told him that I believe some of the things that he does are abusive. I told him about how I've been scared of him, tense around him, unsure of how he'll act... I told him a lot.
I've decided to go to this counsellor with him that we planned to a long time ago.

I told him that all I want is for him to let me talk to this counsellor and if he deems his behaviour abusive then to 'hear him'.
When my husband hears things that he doesn't like then there's always something wrong with the other person.

Thanks for listening. If anyone has another site that they think I should go to instead then by all means let me know.
I never meant for it to sound like all Acoa's are this way, sorry if some took it to mean that.

I've told him that I can't go on like this and that I do want things to be better. I've also told him that if things do not change that I cannot stay.

doublewhammy

Don't you go anywhere. You are welcome here. I think the others just don't want to excuse his behavior, or for you to think that all ACOA are like this, most of us are not.

If you need to document things are journal and need a safe place, keep posting. The more you think "out loud" the easier it becomes. The pieces start fitting together and you start to have more "ah ha" moments.

Don't let your husband confuse you though, his behaviors are so typical of an abuser. As I have said before, "it's what they do". You will grow to expect it and not be confused by it, if you haven't already.

A lot of schools have a pre-k program that starts before kindergarten, my son went for 2 years. That's worth checking into. Might be enough time during the day for you to pick up a part time job...

Don't let him beat you down emtionally. You are doing so good - have come a long way in a few months. Try to shield the children though, they really shouldn't see him blowing up at you over their sandwiches. It's not just about you, it becomes about them, too. You really don't realize how damaging this can be. They might already be feeling guilty or bad inside because Mommy got yelled at by Daddy for giving them the sandwiches they wanted, etc. They understand more than you realize and it sticks with them.

Kialua

Oh no, don't misunderstand and think that you are not welcome here. You are very welcome here. Just wanted to give you a head's up that it seems to be more than Aca behavior. So sorry if you felt otherwise. Glad you are going to Alanon it might be a real help for you. Yes take care of the kids, they do seem to either take all the blame internally or just get bitter when they grow up around crabby Dads.

DesertEyes

Hello wifeofanACoA

You are most welcome here

Communicating with text on a computer screen is very, very difficult. There is no "body language", no inflection in the voice, and no way to obtain continuous feedback as the conversation progresses. Misunderstandings happen _so_ easily, and when dealing with the deeply painful subjects we cover here on SoberRecovery the misunderstandings sometimes escalate.

The good news is that the members here on the Adult Children forum understand that quite well, and are particularly good at working around those barriers to communication. It's a big world out there in the internet, and if you give us a chance you will see that some of the best people have congregated here.

Welcome again.

Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery

wifeofanACoA

I appreciate everyone's encouraging words and I always have on here. I only meant that I didn't want for others to misunderstand me as well.
Thank you always for support.

And I really do know that I've come quite a long way in less than half a year. It's hard to believe that I've been going through all of this for so long. I mean, I know that it's been longer than that but less than 6 months since I could finally put a finger on what is going on.

Reading comments about 'how things could be through the eyes of my children' is extremely helpful to me. I wind up focusing so much on what I experience in those moments that I don't take a second to think of what they could be feeling. I don't mean to sound like I am not paying attention to them or anything like that. Rather I just mean that I'm standing there trying to make sure that I don't have him continuing in his anger by my speaking calmly or not speaking at all.

I am beyond thankful for this site because it is ONLY because of people on here that I've been able to understand what's going on in our relationship.

Plus, for the first time ever I've come to realize that our relationship is just as toxic to my children as it is to me.
I'm not going to do a heroic thing and hang in here until my children are grown. What's the harder thing for me to do? The harder thing for me to do is become independent again and say, 'I'm not going to take this any more.'
Well, at least I've started to move in that direction.
I'm not scared of him leaving me anymore nor am I scared to leave anymore.
However, I'm not going anywhere without my children.

We will be heading to a counselling appointment next month (waiting list) so I am hoping that this will be a changing point.
Yet, if he cannot commit to changing then it's time to move on in this life. One foot in front of the other.

I'm optimistic that he's going to be able to change since he actually heard me when I spoke to him last week.
He seemed to actually hear me out and not negate my feelings and thoughts - so that was a really big thing.

I guess only time will really tell where I'm going to find myself in another 4 months.

Good news is that I'm excited for change. It's coming. Something's changing, I'm just hoping that it'll be in a way that I want. Who wants their marriage to not make it?

Regardless, I'm looking forward to something changing. I just can't live like this anymore and I don't want my children to either.

Kialua

You have changed a lot, your posts reflect that. And with that change in you there is a lot of room for the marriage to change, it won't be easy but it still has a chance. As long as you are looking at it realistically and not hampered by fear and doubt. First priority is your kids. None of us are perfect, no one gets the perfect happy life. But you deserve to be safe.

Suffocating

Dear Wifeofanacoa:

I am a Christian too. I was a wife too once married to the same guy you are married to. Thank GOD we didn't have children together.

Let me tell you what God showed me, this is what made me leave:

It does NOT matter where someone comes from, what they went through growing up, or who they are, NO ABUSE OF ANY form is acceptable. Your brain saying, "Well, nobody is perfect.", "I did that too before once", etc etc is called "rationalization". Our minds do that to make the abnormal, normal so that we don't end up in a psych ward with the white coated men.

The difference between you and him is that you were provoked. What you did to him was nothing more than a stress response. It was a survival mechanism inside of you that went off and you did what any normal person would do in the same position. You have taken steps to change. In fact, you have lost yourself in the process, changing your entire self to fit the demands of an abnormal person, and guess what? It still isn't good enough for him. He has not taken ANY steps to change. Look really closely, how many of his actions in your marriage lined up with what he has said?

God also showed me: Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Your husband has not repented. The meaning of repentance is to turn from. I'm not talking about someone telling a little white lie from time to time. Abusing you is different. There is no comparison. It's apples and oranges. And if he calls himself a Christian, I would find that seriously unbelievable as we know what the Bible says about what a Christian husband does and acts like.

Listen, I will not tell you what to do here because I know INTIMATELY what you are going through and exactly how much you have cost yourself in this process, and how hard it is to come up from it, but I will tell you....

As a daughter of a mother who stayed with a man like that and I watched that growing up, I was terrorized as a kid by a man like that. She never knew about it because I was too young to know to tell her. She was absent for most of it because she was the only one working and trying to support us. I grew up with no self esteem, no sense of self, low self worth, thinking that I was ugly, a piece of garbage who didn't deserve any better than what I saw her get or what I was shown by him.

It's NOT worth it. Keep your children safe. Stop the cycle. It is not your job to change him. You didn't cause it and you can't cure it.

The things he is doing to you are classic signs of abnormal psychology; meaning personality disorder of the narcissistic, sociopathic type. Read, educate yourself, and get away from him. I understand my post may sound extremely radical, but it's the truth. All I'm asking you to do is to just look into what I've said.

I'm not saying you have to divorce your husband, but certainly a separation should be in order here. At least you will be in a safe place, healing from the abuse, and you will be able to see clearly whether he is changing or not. A "I'm sorry, I love you and will never do it again." is not good enough. He has shown you for the past 8 years that his words can't be trusted because his actions never align with what he says. So, him even putting on a facade that he has "changed" for a short time shouldn't be considered good enough in your eyes either, in my opinion.

You deserve so much better. As a daughter of the most High King, He didn't say that as a Christian wife that you are supposed to tolerate this or stay with someone like this. Don't listen to the father of lies. It would be a serious misinterpretation of Scripture to suggest that God would ever require us to be involved in relationship with someone who continually destroys who He has created us to be.

You have been given wonderful advice and insight by all of these people here. Don't ignore it. Your life depends on it. There is a reason that God tell us there is a wisdom in the multitudes of counsel.

wifeofanACoA

Thanks for your words. I definitely appreciate it, from everyone.
I know that there are people who have walked the same roads and I am so thankful for the insight that you all carry.

Suffocating - I don't think that your words are radical or anything. There was a time (only months ago) when I would've wondered if you were jumping the gun. Now, however, I'm sure that you're completely right.

At the moment:

We are set up to talk with a counsellor on the 16th of February (earliest to get in). Yes, I've been here before but this time it's a little different. I've told my husband flat out that I think he is emotionally abusive and that if things don't change then I will not continue to be with him.
He still does not believe that he is what I believe him to be but that's fine (for the moment).

I feel a conviction to tell him how I perceive him to be and give him the opportunity to change. Yet, if he chooses to not change them I feel completely free to leave him.

Kialua - Thanks for encouragement that there is the potential for change in our marriage. A part of me believes it sometimes and a part of me is just waiting for the counselling appointment(s) that will mark that he will never change.

I'm getting stronger all the time and yes, definitely not as fearful about being alone anymore.
I'm getting past the things that have been said and realizing that sometimes he has just outright lied to get me to conform.

Staying strong, one day at a time, one foot in front of the other...

He's being really nice. He's been so calm and hasn't been pushy or controlling. I want to believe that he's different and that we don't need to see the counsellor but experience has told me otherwise.
I've been really anxious for the past week because he's been so different, I keep waiting for the chaos, but today I'm feeling better and more at peace.

I think that he's on his best behaviour because he doesn't want to go to the counsellor.
-- If he backs out this time or even tries to, I'm going to remind him that we are done then.--

The 16th is so long away but I've really got to stick to it and not buy into the façade. If his behaviour is indeed abusive (and I know that it is) then he's not going to change on his own. At least, based on what I've learned abusers don't just change overnight.

I have to be honest though, I just want all of this to be done. I want to move on with my life and be free of someone who is overbearing in such a sneaky way, yet again... I really feel convicted to give him this chance to change. And if he does (probably over years of counselling) then I hope I'll have enough grace to forgive him.
And if he doesn't want to change... - then right now I'm more prepared for that than I've ever been.

Willybluedog

Hi, I am glad you are here.

Also, I would like you to consider journaling for another reason that I don't believe has been mentioned yet (if I missed it I am sorry). You need to journal all incidents for use in the issue of custody if you separate or divorce, (Date/Time/Description) use a journal with sewn in pages (marble journal $ store) and never tear pages out, it will be powerful evidence in your custody and visitation hearing.

Finally when he demands you respond again and again to his statements about leaving laundry in the washer in September to spite him, state your answer, do not repeat it, if he demands again say "it is what it is" and keep repeating that statement until he quits being a petulant child.

I have read your posts here, you are obviously someone who is caring and intellegent, I hope someday that you find yourself in a happier place, you are married to someone much like my ex-wife, demanding, self-absorbed, and spoiled, over the years it just got worse, she finally ran off with a co-worker because she desered "real happiness" at the time I was crushed, as an ACOA I was terrified of being abandoned, that's whay I had coddled her all those years, it turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened to me, now I am married to a real partner.

Best of luck to you,

Bill

Isollae

wifeofanACoA my heart goes out to you. Your story is so close to my own life of the last 20 years. Its hard for me to find the right words to say because I'm still too close to that life but oh how I hope you break free. No one should ever treat another person that way. I don't have all the insightful words to share with you that the others here have but I truely believe that if you stay he might find ways to make you feel that hes address your feelings while he just finds more subtle ways to tear you down. I can't understand why or how a man can be like that but I am sure that they never truely change, they just find new ways to tear you apart. If hes saying things about you that you know are lies and getting you to believe them to even the smallest degree then hes destroying you. Please please please don't let him do that to you.

wanttobehealthy

wifeofanacoa- did you ever get the "why does he do that?" book? your description of being anxious bc your H is being so different lately and waiting for something to happen is kind of a red flag of abuse. if abusers were jerks all the time, it'd be a lot easier to leave. and i think you said earlier in posts this fall that you wished he'd hit you bc it would make it easier to leave. i used to say the same thing. then he did hit me. and it wasn't easier to leave. and bc i hid it from people and lied about it it made it harder to have support and feel i had reason to leave.

your husband grew up with A parents. but that is not the cause of his being an abusive man. i grew up in a very abusive household and never became an abuser myself. i wanted so much to have my life be different and have worked on myself so as to not be like my parents. being an acoa or even an a is not a excuse for being an abuser.

i really relate to so so so much of your story and have been in your shoes. i finally left my AH bc the damage it does for kids to grow up with the tension that was in my house and that it sounds like is in your house (the kids pick up on the fact that we are on edge and anxious even if we think we are hiding it-- trust me) was too much. i have 2 young daughters and the day i asked myself what i'd want them to do if they were living the life i am was the day something clicked in me and i knew i couldn't stay. it took me a lot longer to actually leave (ah left actually) but think of your kids in that way. you might want to try and make it work, but what price are the kids paying? kids deserve to grow up with love and tension free days at home. i wanted to stay and make it work to give them the whole family that i thought was best. but i think it was more that that was what i wanted and i had a really really hard time giving up that dream.

you can't make your husband see he needs help, nor can a T. he has to see there is a problem.

i feel for you.

hang in there.

wifeofanACoA

Such helpful things to be reading today. Thanks for all your words.

Yes, I did wind up reading the "Why Does He Do That?" book and I could barely put it down. It was awful and also rewarding to be able to realize that my husband is like the book says.
I didn't let him see the book and got it out of my house as quickly as I could but I was soooo thankful to have read it. I seriously believe now that EVERYONE should read that book whether you're in an abusive relationship or not.
If I'm ever a college professor and teach something about psychology or whatever, that'll be a book on the required's list.
I really think more people should read that book because it can help to even understand what others may be going through.
I hope my daughter reads it one day when she's older just so that she will at least have an idea of the 'warning signs'. I didn't have a clue, not until I read that book did things start to piece together from waaaaaaaaay back.

I'm glad for people's words today because I'm low. Not feeling low emotionally but feeling low in being able to stay true to my convictions to leave him.
He's just been SO nice and perfect and blah, blah, blah... that I just wind up leaning towards that trap.
"He's trying, look at how he's trying. He's different. He's getting better and all because I told him that sometimes I believe him to be emotionally abusive. It's different now. Look at how patient he's being..."
He's been really nice for 2 weeks now and I hate this part because I start to think, "That other person's not coming back, he's trying now."

I'm just waiting for something to happen, which makes me anxious. My face is breaking out so badly - lol. (We need humour somewhere amongst the turmoil)
And then I'm also starting to feel like I can relax because the chaos is no longer going to come.

Isollae - I like what you said, "I hope you break free". I hope I do too.

I realize that it's not easy, otherwise we'd all be free of such lives and quickly.

wanttobehealthy - So good to receive your insight. You're right, physical abuse or abuse without the hits it won't change anything. I'd probably just be more beaten down and stay with him just the same.

I don't feel that way anymore. I mean, I did at one point but now... if it got physical then I'd be extremely concerned about what would happen to my children if I weren't around.

Taking it one day at a time.
I'm waiting for the chaos and trying to be less anxious all at the same time. It doesn't feel good. And I feel like he's up to something or I don't know. I just am almost waiting for the dam to burst so that I can feel relieved.

Then watch, I'll finally accept that he'll never be unreasonable again, I'll feel calm, and then I'll be completely blind-sided.

Such a horrible way to live. I used to have a calm life.

SLady

Wifeofanacoa, your husband is on his best behaviour because you told him that you will leave him if he continues to be emotionally abusive towards you. Once he feels the threat of you leaving him is no longer there, he may revert back to his old ways. The problem is you cant fix him, he has to want to fix this himself.

Can I recommend another book, its called 'The Verbally Abusive Relationship' by Patricia Evans. This book may contain ways to defend yourself against his verbal abuse.

I come here to apologise. All of you were dead right. My husband's bizarre behaviour has nothing to do with his acoa traits. More to do with the fact that he was being manipulated by a very manipulative woman! Her manipulations were so subtle and so sneaky, my husband was behaving out of character, it left me feeling very hurt and so confused. I was not able to spot the covert manipulations at first but all the signs were there - the guilt trips, playing innocent, half truths, the contradictions, lies and more lies.

He is no longer in contact with this person (thank god) and our home life has now return to normal - calm, no more rows, chaos or drama. I was so close to leaving my acoa husband over this and walking out on my 23 year old marriage, I'm glad I did not follow it through. At the same time, I was so MAD at her, I hate manipulative people.

Kialua

SLady I'm so glad things worked out for you. Good luck!

CleanBreeze

I just read this whole thread and I dont have much input since ive never been in your situation but I do want to point out that having those children means that you protect them no matter what and ALWAYS put them before yourself. Children should be able to have happy childhoods and nothing but good, happy memories..they didnt ask to be born so they shouldnt have to suffer. Children see so much more then you think and it effects them so much more then you think and they will live with everything forever. You need to take those children and get out, whether its their father or not they deserve better. Its not about you or him anymore.. the moment your first child was born it wasnt about either of you anymore. Loving your children is protecting them from all harm no matter where it comes from or how it comes about. Keeping your children in that environment is not healthy and you will see the repercussions of it later on. Im sure from what they've seen so far that they already will have some trouble.. you're their mother and they depend on you to keep them safe and happy, they depend on you for everything, they should be able to depend on you to do whats best for them and put them first. I in no way at all am trying to be mean or rude to you, I couldnt imagine going through what you are but you need to hear this. Please get those kids in a safe place, away from him until he gets help. You owe it to them, not because of what they've been through already but because you are their mother.. put them above anything else always, if not then one day you will see the damage you have caused in one way or the other and like you already stated you will have to answer to god. He didnt put you here to endure any of this so walk away and start a new, HAPPY life.

wifeofanACoA

Well, things are going well enough right now. And if it is what SLady believes it to be, "him having good behaviour because I said I'd leave him - then he'll revert to his old ways once that threat is lifted..." then I guess only time will tell me that.

I understand what people say about thinking about our children, I totally do. I also stand by what I said to let him have this last chance. Our counselling appointment is still set for February 16th and he continues to be really nice and calm and blah, blah, blah. Everything's been going well but I do realize that it could change once he thinks that I'm really willing to stay.
The fact is that I am so excited about the thought of being able to be free of this marriage but I can't just get 'giddy' over the thought of that. I honestly feel that pursuing counselling is what needs to be tried before I happily throw in the towel.

People are right, he will NOT change unless he wants to. And here I am thinking, "Okay... is this you really wanting to change or will you fool me again?"

Again, I'm quite willing to toss this marriage good-bye but I also know that I'm giving it one last chance. Time really will tell. If we go to counselling and he starts blaming me for everything and we get no where on anything and he doesn't want to change anything except for me then.... ah, I will be able to breathe because I know that I will feel completely free to leave him.

Yet, if he wants to look at himself and see who he is through my eyes then it will be a very, very, very long road back to anything that resembles trust. I don't trust him and I don't much like him either. But if he wants to start a real journey that requires looking hard at himself then I will consider staying with him.
But even if he starts his journey it doesn't require that I remain with him either. I'm just thankful to be stronger and in a better place. I'm thankful to realize that I can do this on my own if I have to and that's okay.

Time's going to tell. I'm not saying that one session with a counsellor is going to solve much of anything but if he does his, "I'm not going back there because...." speech then I will leave him happily.
I don't feel trapped and bound by him anymore. I feel like I'm at a fork in the road and a clock's ticking. If he becomes a time bomb or resembles the person he thinks he's changing from then I will be done with him.
I like that thought.

Does anyone want to have their marriage end in divorce? I don't think so but I'm going to take that route if I want to, if I have to. I don't care about what people will say, I don't care about having stores and stores of money, I don't care about 'waiting it out'. All I need to leave is for him to slip up and say that I'm the problem and not him. And that's when I'll say, "Okay. I'll be the problem. And because I'm the problem, I'm leaving you."

wifeofanACoA

Hard day today. He took the day off which made me nervous because sometimes those are the hardest days ever. Whether it was my negative thinking (as he said at one point) or because it just was a hard day doesn't change the fact that today I was ready to be completely done.

He had the day off and so I said that I wanted to go and do something for myself if that was fine. He of course got upset with me right away and said just because he has the day off doesn't mean that he's supposed to be doing a lot around the house. By a lot he was meaning that he'd probably have to feed our two youngest sons lunch.
He said that a day off for him doesn't mean that I get to run out and do whatever I want. A day off for him means that he should get to do whatever it is he wants. He does what he wants usually. I don't ask anything of him.

So, he wanted to rest and play video games and not have to help with any chores (feeding our sons) or anything that requires him doing something that I should be doing.

I had it. I told him that I was done. I said, "I can't do this anymore and I want a divorce."
He went on about how I go on threatening things, which I haven't done for... the last time I made an empty threat was back in hmm... I'd have to check my first post. September? Actually yeah, it was September 11th.
Well, I don't make empty threats anymore and I meant what I said today. I told him that.

I was planning on calling the Pastor and letting him know my intentions so that he'd know that I won't be helping out with certain things at church anymore. Basically, at least at our church, if you're going to not seek resolution in your marriage and you're going to divorce your spouse then you need to take a step back from ministry since you're not willing to work on things anymore.
Well, that's where I am, so I wanted to talk to the Pastor.

My husband wanted to talk with the Pastor with me, so we went.

He says he's changing, he says he's sorry. He seems to be genuine. I still want a divorce. I'm trying to make it to that February 16th appointment.
He says so many things.

I don't believe him. I don't trust him. I have no reason to believe that he will really change. He says that he wants things to change and that we'll both be changing.
I've been working on myself, I've been going to counselling for a bit now. And it's been soooo helpful when it comes to coping with things - extremely helpful. Plus, I don't believe every negative thing I hear anymore.

I know. He says that he'll change and that he wants things to change. But how can a person really believe anything?

We just went 'round and 'round in circles at times while we were with the Pastor. The Pastor was nice and straightforward and I always appreciate it when people are straightforward because then there's no guess work in what someone's trying to say.

So many issues came up before even getting to the Pastor's house.

I said I was done and then he kept flipping from nice to mean, nice to mean, nice to mean.
I apparently had it out for him when my parents came to visit way back when. He believes that I was conspiring against him and setting him up that weekend because my parents helped with the cooking. He said that my parents do everything for me and I put them out all the time. He said that when they come to visit then I make the whole weekend revolve around me.. oh dear. All they did was cook some meals because they said they wanted to give me a break. But in his eyes I'm horrible because I'm not the one cooking. So messed up.
I said that my parents are adults and as such they can decide what they want and don't want to do. I never made them do anything. He just doesn't like people helping me because it's my job.

Why does their helping me pose such a problem to him? I really don't get that part, I really don't.
He acted like I was supposed to tell him ahead of time that they would be doing things for the weekend (cooking). Why? Why would I have to tell him that?
'Oh, and by the way when my parents come they're doing the cooking. I hope that's okay with you.'


Then my wanting to go out to do something today was a 'set up' so that I could say, "Fine, I'm divorcing you." That's not true. I just wanted to go do something alone for a bit. A walk? A cup of coffee? A drive?

I was so beside myself by the end of the conversation at the Pastor's house. Almost every time I brought up an incident of what he had done that was not right then he'd say it never happened.
(I don't remember if I wrote out my situation back from being kicked out by him in September but the next part's related...)

So, I brought up that I can't ever tell if he genuinely forgets things or if he's just choosing to say otherwise. He said, "I don't lie."
I brought up the situation of him kicking me out (September) and how the only question I had asked him was, "Can I stay?"
Well, back in September when I spoke to him later like... 24 hours later, he said firmly to me.
"Let me be perfectly clear. I never asked you to leave."
Yeah, he did. He had said that it would be better if I left and that he thought I should go. Then he was telling me that that never happened.

So... anywho - I was only bringing up that he says one thing and then another. I didn't even get to say the rest of that story from back in September when he said, "Yes, I did tell you to leave."
So what the heck?
If you don't lie then why at one time do you say, "I never told you to leave" and then here in front of the Pastor you say, "Yes, I did tell you to leave... because I didn't want to let you off the hook on your empty threat."

I don't even know who I'm dealing with anymore.

So, he's out now.
But before his going out he's all nice. He's all calm and happy.
He talked with me for a while about not giving up on him.
I hate this.

I don't trust him. I have no reason to. And he explains things away or acts like they didn't happen like that or even happen at all! The scary part is that he seems to actually believe that I'm making this stuff up. I've been living this and then he just goes and denies things. I don't get this.

Yep. I'm probably a fool. I'm still waiting until February 16th. Why? I'm waiting because then I can say, "Look. I tried. I really tried."
Because we've been to a counsellor before but it's insane!... He winds up acting like I ran away from her counsel because I didn't want her to challenge me. He said (to the Pastor) that the reason why I'm acting the way that I am (calling him emotionally abusive) is because I am angry at him for him sending me to a psychiatrist. He said that this is all backlash for that.
Why? Why would I be like that? I have nothing to hide.
He wanted me to go. I go but now it's still not good enough because anything I ever do has to be because he made me go to the psychiatrist.

Goodness..

Just because someone wants you to go to a psychiatrist does not mean that I will somehow hold a grudge forever and decide that I will now plot my life around getting back at them. So I went to the psych and the psychiatrist didn't deem me emotionally unstable or insane or whatever.
It's not enough that I go, it's not enough that I answer the questions, now everything I do must be because I'm acting in retaliation to him.

This post is quite freeing...
he's not going to change is he?

Let's go ahead and guess.
We make it to the 16th and maybe make it to a second.
Anywho, we make it to the 16th and he doesn't like what he hears. Once again everything becomes my fault and I say, "Okay."
Then I feel free to leave.

My counsellor said, 'Change is possible but it's extremely difficult.'
Okay.
The question is going to be answered soon enough... when push really and truly comes to shove is he going to be willing to change?

Still today he went on about how nasty I am to him and how unaffectionate I am to him. How does a person hug and kiss and whatever with someone who hurts them? How am I supposed to be affectionate with someone I want to run away from?
I've told him why I can't 'force' myself to hug him or whatever. I don't have anything left, I'm all out of whatever it was I had once.

I loved him. At least I think I must have. Perhaps that was all a delusion, a love for someone who wasn't who I thought he was. I loved the delusion?

I don't touch him because I'm protecting myself. I don't want to fall back into this place where I call something love that isn't love. I don't want to let my guard down and say, "Okay, you're safe. I'll let you back near my heart."
Only to have my heart painted with the graffiti of his tainted thinking.
It's not worth it.

Where am I going now?
Just gotta' make it another day and another and another.

My Mom said, "Just take it one day at a time."
She meant because the 16th is a marathon in my life. I don't know if I'll make it there or not.

I just want to be free from the pain of feeling like some man's other child. I'm not an equal to him, not an adult. Oh sure, he says I am. But here is where I completely understand that actions speak louder than words.

I just want to be free.
The good news is that with every new day I'm closer to something different, I just don't know what that 'different' is yet.

Keyn

wifeofanACoA,

Thank you for this thread. I'm reading your posts and seeing myself as I was. I'm hearing my wife finally give up on me and talk about divorce. She did it without tears and that killed me.

I was filled with so many of the same manipulative devices your husband uses. My wife saved my life by doing exactly what you're doing with your husband. The lengths that we (male ACA's of our type) will go to manipulate and try to control what our spouses do and how they think are insane. I mean insane, as in sick.

I apparently had it out for him when my parents came to visit way back when. He believes that I was conspiring against him and setting him up that weekend because my parents helped with the cooking. He said that my parents do everything for me and I put them out all the time. He said that when they come to visit then I make the whole weekend revolve around me.. oh dear. All they did was cook some meals because they said they wanted to give me a break. But in his eyes I'm horrible because I'm not the one cooking. So messed up.
I said that my parents are adults and as such they can decide what they want and don't want to do. I never made them do anything. He just doesn't like people helping me because it's my job.

Why does their helping me pose such a problem to him? I really don't get that part, I really don't.
He acted like I was supposed to tell him ahead of time that they would be doing things for the weekend (cooking). Why? Why would I have to tell him that?
'Oh, and by the way when my parents come they're doing the cooking. I hope that's okay with you.'

When you mentioned this it brought me right back to one of the devices I used to use. It goes like this: If Your parents have to 'give you a break' it means they can see how irresponsible I am as your husband, so please cook away. It'll show them that we're more stable than they think, and I won't look so bad. Besides we're in this situation because of you anyway. It's your punishment." Why did he REALLY want forewarning? Because if he knew you were going to take a break, he would have 'stepped up to the plate' on a thing or two to show the in-laws what a great husband he is. If you should look bad, that's a bonus because he can then reach out and lift you up (but not too far). Then your parents go home, and it's back to the same old routine. And he gets angry when you don't play his game.

Alternating from nice to mean, wow I remember that one. I did it to try and lever my wife's choices and thoughts. How sick is that? Not even confident enough to let your 'equal' make her own decisions? I wasn't. I was so afraid she would choose not to be with me anymore. And wrestling that, I pushed her farther and farther away. God I was so messed up. Reading your posts make me feel I lived some alternate life. His behavior is SO FAMILIAR. It's uncanny. Let me share mine and my wife's stuff in the hope that you can take something from it:

I am an ACOA. All the traits you read about, I had them: low self-esteem, manipulative, ultra-irresponsible (in my case), etc. I loved my wife, even in this condition. I was messed up and knew it. I wanted to change, but I didn't know how (even though I thought I did). I did not respect my wife (even though I thought I did). I could argue for hours trying to manipulate her thinking. I really believed that if I could just get her to understand what I was saying, she couldn't possibly keep her own thought process. I was in denial, and I was addicted to my sick, manipulative, screwed up ways.

After putting up with me for about a decade, my wife so drained of emotion, dropped the divorce bomb. And I knew she was dead serious. It was not a threat. Think of it as a 'statement of intent'. That single act served the same purpose that an intervention does for an addict. At that moment I realized I had failed to change and I did not know how to change, and I surrendered myself. I let go of the sick stuff and we got our butts in to a counselor. One who specializes in addiction and recovery of all things.

So much has changed since then. I have had to step up to work as much as my wife. I have learned to shut my mouth and let her be who she is and she's wonderful all by herself, without anyone trying to control her. My wife loves me. She reaches out to me, shows affection, does sweet little things (like leaving notes). I do the same. I know now that she's with me because she wants to be, not because I have any control over her. When I let go of her and let her stand her ground, she was awe-inspiring and I realized what a worm I had been. My wife is amazing. She is strong. She helped save my skin from myself and I am eternally grateful for her. I am such a lucky dude.

I wish I could tell you that you can believe the things your husband says. Really, I don't think he should believe the things that come out of his own mouth. What comes out are tools and devices to shape things 'the way it should be'. When the truth does come out, it's conditional on those devices and colored with manipulative motives. I wish I could tell you that your story will follow the same path mine has. But I had to make a choice, and your husband will too. You said you go to church. The bible indicates that divorce is sanctioned on the grounds of abuse. I really think you have been living with abuse, my wife was. I never called her names, never raised my hand, but I did make her life a hell, I didn't mean to, but I did. The bible calls its readers also to forgive...the repentant. Not the ones looking to smooth things over until the storm has passed.

I feel very involved with your story. The two of you have some hard choices to make, and I hope you make the most of either direction. Remember, you do not have to 'stick it out', you do not need to make sure he gets better, that's for him to decide. Thank you for your posts again. You have reignited gratitude in me for all I have accomplished with the support of an amazing woman.

wifeofanACoA

Keyn - Your post is an answer to prayer. A reminder that God hears me and sees me and understands. No matter what happens to us I'm very thankful in this moment because I'm reminded that God loves me.