Poppy79

Hi Plenny,
Sorry to read about the flooding. Mother Nature sure is powerful. I hope you and your belongings avoided any deluge.

Plenny

Me and my cat are dry. My house was luckily kept dry. But my neighborhood was truly flooded. I am very lucky.

Currently I am watching the documentary "What the Health" to go along with my recent dietary changes, and it is just inspiring me to go vegan. We'll see how it goes, I am still eating fish, eggs, and dairy.

So here's what's up. I am a lifelong meat eater and a former professional cook. I loved meat, preparing it, eating it. I am very knowledgeable in the culinary arts. This also means that I have an interest in nutrition and what food does for us. I love healthy foods. Hey, I love all foods really. Every thing our planet has to offer that we can prepare and eat, I love. This lifelong interest and research has led to many discoveries along the way. I have hundreds of arguments banging around in my head contradicting each other. But when I hear testimonies of those who were able to stave off disease and mental illness by cutting out animal products, I have no choice but to think about it seriously.

Equipped with all of this knowledge, I did continue to overindulge in animal products for years. Then, something happened to me at the end of July. I just didn't want it anymore. My body didn't want meat. I am not hungry for it and I feel better already.....

This isn't meant to be preachy. The reason I'm sharing this viewpoint on the subject with you is that I wonder if I just gather information about something for a very long time, until I become utterly convinced of the truth about a subject, then my actions must follow my new viewpoint, and I become unshakeable. I am stubborn but I am also a person of principle. To me, meat is unhealthy and causes problems. I feel I would be silly to not cut it out of my diet. Same with cigarettes. Can I not also finally get the clue about alcohol? Will it finally cement in my psyche, the knowledge that it is unintelligent to continue drinking? I hope I am almost there.

kenton

I'm glad your home and belongings weren't affected by the flood waters Plenny.

For me, viewing alcohol as a poison definitely helps to keep me sober. Obviously it is poison and we all know it is but at some point in our lives we become brain washed to think of it as different to other poisons. We wouldn't think to have a shot of arsenic to celebrate someone's birthday. Maybe because alcohol kills us slower than other poisons and because so many other people drink it, we somehow think that alcohol as a poison is safe.

My kids had someone come into their school recently to talk about drugs, alcohol, ciggarettes etc and this person explained very clearly to them that alcohol is poison. And this happened in primary school where all the kids are aged under 11. I'm so glad our young are being educated about the truth about alcohol. I tell my kids that the reason I don't drink is because alcohol is bad for me and I choose to be healthy. To them, this makes perfect sense but time will tell.... I started drinking at 13. I think I'll be good at spotting the red flags if any of my kids start showing them but I also know alcoholism is a very secretive, cunning disease. I think I'm just trying to get into their sub conscious the fact that alcohol is poison. I'm also trying to be the kind of mum that they know they can talk to, without judgement.

I've gone off on a tangent. I think because it's an issue so close to my heart. My dad was alcoholic, I'm alcoholic .... It keeps me up at night worrying that one of my kids may become alcoholic. But then the rational part of my brain reassures me that I'm here for my kids and will cross every bridge when I get to it. No point worrying about stuff that hasn't happened.

I think it sounds like you're getting to the point where you view alcohol for what it truly is Plenny. It definitely doesn't have any place in a healthy lifestyle.

I haven't heard of that book Poppy but I will definitely read it.

I hope your foot feels better soon Kev.

I haven't been to Robin Hood's bay Nands. But I'll check it out. Sounds like a fun place!

Did the see the accommodation being offered Steely? What was it like? I hope you like it and can get moved quickly. I think you'll feel great once you move into a new place. I hope it will improve everything with your son.

I've woken up early on the first night of our holiday having had the most vivid dreams. I always have vivid dreams when I sleep near the sea. I'm. So. Odd. They weren't drinking dreams... They were dreams about friends of ours who moved away last year and I haven't seen for ages. I think I'll text them and say hello. I hope everyone is doing ok in Nobender Kingdom. Love to everyone xxxx

kenton

Just Googled Robin Hood's bay and it's up north. Near Scarborough. The really spooky thing is its near to where my friends moved. The same friends I dreamed about last night!! That's spooky right?? What does it all mean?? There's got to be a meaning there somewhere. I'm just not clever enough to work it out xxxx

Ananda

hi,

I'm trying for a quick reply and sorry if I missed responding to.

I took notes as I read

Kev - I think the need for alone time is true for all, but for more of us it is critically important rather than "unhealthy". In the book Women who run with wolfs" she talks a lot about the need for recharge and regroup time, and then a time for taking our new knowledge out into the world. If you like Jung and archtype psycology, you will like that book. Even if you don't it is a good way to tap into your creative side. I have used it with great results.

the first time I got sober I was just 27. Just think ... you have the opportunity for uninterrupted sobriety! I really enjoyed the fellowship with other newcomers during that time, and yep ... did my date thing as well I'm glad that you seem to be making that connection as it can be a supper support for sobriety.

Poppy - I'm really glad you are staying here as well. I believe we can use the bonds of the friendship that we find here to help keep us from wandering too far from sobriety and health. When I was 38 I was almost 7 years sober and truly enjoying my life. full of gardens and work success ... it was probably the highest point of my life. You can have that too!

(POST AND CONTINUE)

Ananda

Kenton - 41 is also a good age to be ... even if you may feel like you are starting on that old aging process ... you really don't have to be there yet. I believe that most women blossom around the mid 30 to mid 50 age. Even as a kid, I looked forward to that time of my life.

What you were saying about alcohol and school age kids. When Chris was in grade school they had a "Just say no" campaign going on in the US. The problem was that it encouraged kids to simply eliminate anyone who had ever tried pot or drinking from their life. Contrary to that, I believe that the kicking out of the group thing only encourages potential addicts to dive deeper into the hole. I believe you can say I'm not gonna use and I can't be around a lot of use, but I am still here and can do activities that aren't centered on drinking. Chris went on to try different drugs and alcohol. At this point, it doesn't look like it has turned into a go-to thing for him, but I never lied to him about that drugs and alcohol can have a alluringly nice effect. I remember he told me once that after trying some different things, he found that the living in that lifestyle just wasn't worth it to him.

When I was 16 my brother was arrested for smoking pot. At that time the government and society was using the scare tactics of "Reefer Madness" - the idea that if you used you would end up hallucinating, out of control, jumping out windows, failing grades and loss of friends. My brother was a A student and reasonably well balanced for a teenager. I looked around me at school and the people smoking were often the A students who would go on to awesome universities and receive Rhodes Scholarships (a big deal in the US education system). Well ... I smoked pot. Some of those kids did really well and some died addicted and in pain.

I guess my point is that I have to remember that their was a reason I drank, and that kids might try it. It does have a temporary positive effect. It sweeps away worries, makes most more social and often more relaxed and therefor witty. It does solutions in spades .... until it doesn't. I stressed to Chris the boomerang affect of drugs and alcohol... hoping he would see quickly that alcohol and drugs can suck you in with the lure of peace, love and happiness ... and then, once you are in it's snare, it can remove any hope of peace, love and happiness... that is the subtle nature of them. the ultimate bait and switch!

Wow! that was quite a rant! Not sure where it came from, I guess I needed to hear that again...

Kenton, I hope your vacation is going great! If you decide to visit your old friends, perhaps you can talk them into taking a day trip, or one night trip to Robin Hood's Bay ... and while there eat some fish and chips with mushy peas and think of me!

Ananda

Plenty - you really made me think! ... I need to do some things right now, but sure hope I can talk about it later tonight! I relate to the flood as we lost half our house to a flash flood a few years back, and lived through a summer of the water being 2" from going over the levys in 1993. We had a flash flood last Saturday, and we had to bail out water from window wells with coffee cans for an hour or so... all was well, we got a tiny bit of water in one corner of the downstairs, but nothing significant thanks to our catching it in time.

Again ... I hope to respond more on something you brought up in your last post later.

Steely

Don't know where to start, so many posts, but I did think your dream was spooky kenton. Queer little serendpities have been occurring with me too, it's interesting and strange. Don't want to become too much of a magical thinker but most odd.

Maybe good stuff really does start to happen in sobriety but I was too drunk to notice or appreciate it before. Still their were reasons as you say Nands, as to why I drank.

Life can deliver some really fast balls and I need to view my drinking and my life with these balls in mind. It's liberating to view my drinking and its impact more objectively, it's softer on self and welcomes change. It is also so very scary, difficult. Maybe I've solved the conundrum of there being "no easier softer way".

I've accepted the 'villa'. It's smaller to what I'm accustomed to, but no matter I'll make it look nice and there is room to do some gardening. There is a mandarin tree outside my bedroom window. Some room for pot plants, and it had been renovated.

I introduced myself to the neighbours who all appear friendly and interesting. They all seem to enjoy gardening and two of the women I met were growing vegetables. Aquatic centre close by. Very cool.

Plenny, you moved into smaller digs didn't you? How is it going for you? And thanks for thumbs up on tomato and Basil. When I thought about it, you were absolutely right, just good old tomato and basil. No additives, no nothing. Good bread, yum.

Nands . I'm as old as Buddha and younger than the fig tree and have been taught since early childhood that asking someone's age is a "copper's question". . But if you insist, I'm 69. It's hard to believe. A new phase, a new chapter. I'll be so glad when this move is complete.

Got to go back to the DoH today sheee to sign the Tenancy Agreement. Why they couldn't do it yesterday is beyond me, but bureaucracies work by script. So....

And I'm planning.

Poppy79

Good morning everyone,
Feeling good today, still have a niggling little worry about how I will handle it when my AV creeps in. I suspect I will just tell it to F off!
I'm prepped though, got my exercise gear with me so I can go for a walk/jog at lunch time (bit too chilly this morning). Took my dose of antabuse. Took some vitamins. Have a to do list in my head that I will jot down when I get to work. Busy little bee that I need to be at the moment.
I feel like I am back to my pre blip self but I also have that self doubt you know. Meh! I'm capable of being happy sober and I am back there again.
Yesterday I walked right past a bar offering $5 glasses of sav Blanc. Didn't bat an eyelid but I did notice it on a board full of other offers for various types of poison.
What do you all do when your AV flares up?
Playing the tape forward helps me, but any other suggestions are fully welcome

Poppy79

age is but a number. I am sort of looking forward to getting older. Weird huh.
So happy you have found a nice little place. I lived in a tiny 1 bedroom studio apartment for a couple of years and loved it. Easy to keep clean. Forced me to declutter.
How exciting to decorate your new abode. I love doing that. I change up the theme in my house now - blue and yellow coloured ornaments and cushions. Quite a beachy feel to it. I used to have a red theme.
When do you move in Steely?

Ananda

Hi Poppy!

I don't practice AVRT, but I relate to the description of the thoughts of drinking popping up.

Now I change my mind about everything all the time, but for now ... I think that when that thought comes into my head of I want a bottle ... I sort of just set it aside and figure I'm doing all I can to follow the path I'm on that includes sobriety and supports sobriety and I have to believe that that will be enough.

As far as all those little pulls telling me it will be different, or I can do it and not get caught..etc. I just go back to the basic mantra of "my mind is often a liar".

I tend to try and do certain thing if I am getting uncomfortable and I think it keeps those thoughts from even getting started. I will listen to Ajan Sumedo or Amaro. I'll meditate. I'll go outside and sit and enjoy my garden and develop a little gratitude. Sometimes I watch a good TV show and sometimes I eat ice cream (not a recommended method, but better than drinking!).

I hope you have some contacts with people who can talk with you when you don't see anyone on the thread. I don't use that tool much, but it is nice to know that that card is in my deck.

Hope your evening is going well!

Ananda

I'm once again up at daft o clock in the morning. didn't go to bed till almost 2 am and woke up at 4am.

The news is very concerning to me. Without getting political about it.. I'm gonna try and talk a little about this.

I know that there are people all over the world who have to worry about bombs dropping on them or suicide bombers on a daily very immediate way. But here in the US that really isn't an everyday type thing or even an every year thing. I don't think that my strongest feeling is fear. It is more like a disbelief at how carelessly things are proceeding. I noticed that even my son downplays the actual effect of nuclear bombs, but I remember reading first hand accounts of survivors of Hiroshima and Nagusaki and I find the idea of these types of bombs to be absolutely heart stopping. It might not be the end of the world, but it would be for a whole lot of people. Even conventional war fair (what ever the heck that means!) seems crazy to me.

Anyhow ... I just needed to say something. To at least mention this as it is really a big thing going on right now for me. I know that tomorrow I will just go on with life as normal. Perhaps it is good that something like this helps to emphasis the joy of daily life regardless of troubles and woes I sometimes think I have. My son and I have a little joke we say when this sort of thing about nukes comes up and hits a bit close to home ... "looks like it's time to go outside and play". I think of that because of what happened at my job at a grade school one time.
(I'm going to tell that in next post as I don't want to loose what I typed so far).

kenton

Hi everyone,

Nands, thanks for your advice. I remember when I was at university I shared a room for a while with a girl whose parents had never allowed her to eat sweets. Like ever. Consequently as soon as she got some freedom, the first thing she did was eat sweets. Over and over again. I can remember listening to her crunching on candy all through the night!! I guess the point is, if you're super strict and never let kids try anything there is a chance they will go completely overboard the first opportunity they get. I know my kids will try drinking and hey, maybe they'll all be normal drinkers. But I'm going to be present in their lives so I can spot any red flags. I guess that's all I can do. Oh and stay sober. That's surely the best example I can set.

Glad you like the villa Steely. Sounds very Mediterranean with the mandarin tree outside the window. I have a very strong feeling that you are going to be really happy there Steely. I hope the packing and moving goes well. Glad the neighbours are nice. Makes such a difference. I got assaulted by one of my neighbours last year but that's a whole different story..... and she is such a vile woman (yes, I got assaulted by another woman) I can't be bothered to write about her. Other than to say I was sticking up for another neighbour who is elderly and has alzheimers and vile woman and her family assaulted me and shouted abuse at me for weeks. They still live opposite and are the oddest people. They seem to hate anyone who isn't related to them. They have fallen out with everyone on the street and were even vile to the postman the other day and he is possibly the nicest person ever. Poor man was really shaken up after they yelled at him. Anyway, I'm digressing ....

Poppy, glad you're feeling good. How do I deal with my AV? I guess I challenge it constantly because whatever it tells me, I never doubt my decision to stop drinking. That decision is my bible. The other day I was reading on the newcomers forum about how alcoholics should never have alcohol in their house and should stay away from bars etc. I am fine with having alcohol in the house, my husband still drinks red wine and I have no problems with this (he's a normal drinker). And I can hang out in bars with drinkers and drive them all home at the end of the night. So my AV started telling me that if I can have alcohol in the house and not drink it and socialise with drinkers, clearly I don't have a problem. Clearly I'm ok to start drinking again. As soon as the thoughts entered my head, I challenged them. Just because I can have wine in my house doesn't mean I'm not an alcoholic. I'd only have to take one sip of that wine to see that I am definitely alcoholic. All alcoholics are different but those differences don't mean that I'm somehow less alcoholic than others. I made the decision to stop drinking based on countless blackouts, endless misery and shame. I don't have to revisit all the reasons I made the decision. I just have to always stand by the decision and never ever doubt it. Despite what my AV may try to tell me.

Hope everyone has a fantastic day/evening xxxx

Ananda

I'm telling this the long way...

Although I don't remember the "Cuban Crisis", I was alive and my mom has shared about it. She told me that she and dad discussed building a nuclear bomb shelter, but decided against it because of the whole dilemma of who you would let in and who you would lock out.

My grade school principle was about the same age as my parents, and he actually built one in his back yard.

When I got divorced I went to work as a para - teacher at a grade school where he was the principle and he retired during my time working there. On his last day he had a drill. We have fire drills in schools here once a month along with tornado drills. So that day the alarms went off and as we lined up the kids to go outside he started to talk into the PA system about what to do if it were a nuclear attack. One of the other teachers turned to me and said "if it were a nuclear bomb I would tell the kids to go out and play...". So I always remember that moment .. realizing that if the bombs ever flew I would prefer to gather with my family out in the backyard and enjoy a last little gathering rather than hide in my basement shaking in fear and waiting for it to happen.

I couldn't believe it when someone from the National Defense Department was on TV and had the nerve to seriously talk about duck and cover as a real soloution to neuclear war survival ... I mean we knew that was insane a long time ago...

OK .. just had to get that off my chest. And here for your viewing enjoyment is the public service announcement we use to have to listen to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMnKNHNfznE

kenton

Sorry Nands, my post crossed with yours. I hope you can get some sleep. Yep, I'm definitely of the "let's go outside and play" mentality when it comes to bombs and other stuff outside of my control. It's a scary world but we have to remember that there's still far more good than bad. The dark side is always present but it isn't winning. Sleep well Nands xxx

Plenny

Ayayay. First thing this morning I did watch the 'news' and there was a lot of bomb talk. I feel like everything is spinning out of control in so many ways.... for me it began about three years ago, when my ex husband and I began separating. Don't be mistaken, my life was not cupcakes and roses before that, but when this last straw hit my back I started to lose my sense of control over my life. In many positive ways as well as negative. I entered what I like to call Purgatory. I feel like I have been living in a bizarre reality where anything can happen no matter what we do and it made me somewhat nihilistic. It began with the separation, and then when Ebola hit the U.S. (a childhood fear of mine, I read a lot) and all sorts of other really big events, too many unrelenting events, and I clocked out. Into the consciousness of an observer. I fear total apathy, but at some point one just has to realize that one's life is not in one's own hands (It may unfortunately be in the hands of a mango faced imp).

I just don't know what will happen next but I fail to feel surprise any longer.

Plenny

Kenton - Yes I believe I've begun to realize that alcohol is a poison. The alcohol education your kids are getting over there sounds better than our DARE program. And it is so hard to not be over concerned about them and their futures. But it's true that clenching down is going to backfire

Nands - Haha are we in the same area? I am really thinking about getting a canoe. I'm glad you caught the water in time last Saturday

Steely - I am loving my small apartment. It is just enough space for me, my lazy old cat, my kitchen stuff, and an art table. I love a clean house and this place cleans up really quick. I honestly don't think I'd do well in a large house I think I would be stressed about all of the tasks and keeping order

Now my post gets a little bit dark here, I am discovering some things that I have to face and I am going to confess something to the group. I am ok, everyone is ok, but it may change how you view me.

In response to what one does when the AV shows up, I don't remember who was asking about it... Some sobering thoughts have come on the scene recently. My BF told me yesterday that during my last bout with drinking I had had an episode and started an argument, and in the escalation I got physical with him and left bruises on his side. Now, I remember a fight. I do not remember this incident. I am not one to resort to physical violence in an argument, I express myself otherwise. But I did. My episode apparently rendered me blind with rage and acting like someone I am not. A lot of darkness welled up and I was unmanageable. Bf told me this in order to be transparent with me about my anger when drinking. I wish he had told me sooner. I am thankful he told me at all.

I am completely disappointed in myself and afraid and guilty and embarrassed. I offered to remove myself from the relationship. I do not expect anyone to stay in that kind of arrangement. Bf insisted he isn't going anywhere but expressed his concern and insisted he only wanted me to know. I'm glad I know.

I wanted to also be transparent with you all. I am sorry if this post triggers anyone and I'd understand if we aren't in contact after this.

Unfortunately, the way he describes my episode and my behavior is very similar to the behavior of my mother, who physically attacked me regularly and who was an addict and a narcissist as well. She was a very dangerous person without boundaries.

I have made it my life's work to get away from her physically and psychically so that I can have room to be myself, hear myself think, and develop as an individual. She is still in here somewhere and I must continue to extract that evil influence.

If there is anything that I can throw at my AV, it is that. If alcohol is starting to bring out this harpy in me, I have no choice but to abstain.

Again I'm sorry if my confession has triggered or offended. I am trying to be real with myself here.

Ananda

Hi Plenny,

Yeah .. for me a great challenge is learning to live with uncertainty. Drinking didn't really help in the long run, so now I have to find a new level of sober acceptance that uncertainty is a given.

Of course uncertainty was always there, but I got really glad at either pretending it wasn't, letting it overwhelm me and make me un able to move, or drinking myself to oblivion to avoid it.

I am beginning to see that uncertainty has 2 really good aspect to it. First, it helps me to see the good around me that might not be there tomorrow and thus gives me a since of gratitude and appreciation for what my life is now. Next, I begin to see that uncertainty doesn't always mean something bad will happen ... it can also be the bedrock of dreams and hopes. With uncertainty anything is possible, even great things that I can't even imagine.

Of course I often get lost in the morose bog of fear. But I am finding ways to let go of that and move forward or perhaps just to move forward despite it. To not let fear rule my life and my view.

I am trying to realize that as long as we don't get blown up, there is a lot that we can learn from current events. I remember during the OJ trial when people who didn't ordinarily take an interest in the judicial system learned a whole lot about how that system works (or doesn't work). Also when there was the contested election and hanging chad stuff ... there were a lot of people, not just from other countries but even American's born and bred here, that had no idea what a electoral college is or that the popular vote wasn't the determining factor in a presidential election.

In the current events I think a lot of people are learning more than they ever thought they needed to know about the balance of power, checks and balances, and workings of government. We will certainly be more educated after this. I also am finding some relief that it is possible that the form of government, as imperfectly as it works, may ultimately be set up in such a way that we, as a country, won't just end up where many countries do in politics, that perhaps the system will work.

We shall see. I've been able to get 4 hours sleep total so I feel a bit better able to cope.

Love you plenny and glad that you posted

Ananda

My opinion of you is not changed by this Plenny.

I said things to my son and in front of my son that horrify me today. We have talked about some of that. although I don't recall ever having crossed the line to physical violence, I do recall a time where I almost got physically attack mode and know that a large part of that was rage fueled by adrenaline.

When we can look at these sorts of things and still keep our chin up and learn it is something to be admired. I certainly admire your willingness to share this and face it in yourself head on!

I believe that when a person has been abused it is quite common to end up imitating that behavior. It is actually hard to break the cycle. Although I have been fortunate enough to not physically abuse my son, I have still passed on the behavior in other non-physical ways that have harmed him. I just try to keep myself from that sort of behavior today and learn to heal myself from my past.

You definitely belong here on this thread, and I'm pretty certain all the other nobenders will feel the same way.

Good for you for facing this!

Love Nands

Ananda

oh yeah ... I'm from Manhattan, Kansas ... the little apple