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The concept of never

Old 11-15-2012, 12:53 PM
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The concept of never

As has been posted here, the concept of never is hard to grasp in the beginning. I am sure all new comers have struggled a bit with this. I have been focusing on the now and of course I say never again, nor will I change my mind. But it is still a very hard concept to grasp.

Today while I was driving I was able to breifly envision never and what it meant. It was indeed a liberating feeling but it was somewhat fleeting. I can't say that I have fully grasped it quite yet, but it was interesting to catch a small glimpse of it. Then I thought of future major life milestones and caught my AV creep in and start to try and say "well maybe then it will be ok". I identified it and dismissed it.

For now I am focused in the "now". As I will not drink in the now.

Has anyone else felt this?
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:10 PM
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Exactly, yes. When this played out in my mind on additional occasions, I focused on the relief and freedom of never, remembering that the doubt in keeping to my plan is only av, and I know plenty about what to do with that.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dybehfar View Post
For now I am focused in the "now". As I will not drink in the now.
Bravo. This is my understanding as well. If you can agree that everything in life changes and nothing is permanent (see: science), then suggesting you can quit "forever" in my own understanding is counter-intuitive. The word forever suggests it is endless. But there is an end to everything (energy transference not withstanding) and grasping what is infinite is so vast and ultimately defeating, it is much easier to grasp the truth.

For me, the truth is what is here, right now, this very moment. Not the next moment, not the past moment, but right now. I can be present in this moment and will not drink. That is excellent for me and in every moment, I find success in staying sober. Why not have countless moments of sobriety and celebration, instead of one you are reaching for in some far away land you are calling forever?

Why complicate matters with such a long-term notion that even science suggests is not tangible? I think many folks with this delusional concept overwhelm themselves and end up drinking, when all they had to do was not drink right now and let the future unfold, moment, by moment instead.

But as always, just keep doing whatever it is that keeps your hand away from that drink! If that means adding the anxiety of being a fortune teller and living up to the promise of knowing your indefinite future and what you will drink in that future, then so be it.

I can only suggest there's no reason to add the baggage to an already heavy amount of suffering we entail. I would much prefer just being me, full of flaws and joy and knowing that right now, I'm not drinking. Hooray for me!

Good luck!
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:47 PM
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Well in my beleve I really just try not to think about anything but the moment. No yesterday or tomorrow but not so easy because I am thinking about it.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:53 PM
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After a few years of meditation practice we can even learn how to occasionally ignore ourselves. And what relief that can be!
Wes Nisker
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:05 AM
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dybehfar: I wrestled with "never" for a time. I was committed to "I don't drink", but the "I will never change my mind" part got my AV all riled up. So, I made a secret plan to let myself drink at a later date in life (mine was when I was 70 or 80 years old). My AV told me "you'll be old and what else will there be to do at that age? Who will care if you drink too much then? People will probably be happy for you that you're drinking."

I stayed comfortably in the "now", keeping my little secret, continued with personal, sober growth and self-study of RR & AVRT. One night, I found a place where saying "never" actually felt comfortable and good. It was no longer an impediment. For me, saying "never" feels more like a rocket launcher! :- )

I guess my advice, not that anyone is asking, is that we should remain in the now. Don't worry about forever (or never). If the liberating feeling of never comes, awesome! If it does not, who cares as long as you have right now. (In reality "now" is all any of us really have anyway ;-)

I don't drink and I will never change my mind.


*smile*
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:35 AM
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For me, the concept of "never" simplifies things: I like the fact that the question of drinking has been asked and answered, so I can move on to other things.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth
For me, the concept of "never" simplifies things: I like the fact that the question of drinking has been asked and answered, so I can move on to other things.
This is me exactly! Asked and answered...no need to hash it over, wonder, ponder. It's moot. THAT is what has freed me.
I put it to bed with "never", now I have so much more brain space for other cool stuff.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:08 AM
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I think it's great the word never can work for some. If only it worked for everyone. Our minds are tricky things I suppose.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:37 AM
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Well, that's the thing, vinyl. It's not the "what" that works. It's about how we assimilate concepts. How we use our minds to create the desired effect. All things are impermanent...what we believe today may not necessarily be what we believe tomorrow, or maybe it will. Sure is a fun ride though, that's all I know
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
Well, that's the thing, vinyl. It's not the "what" that works. It's about how we assimilate concepts. How we use our minds to create the desired effect. All things are impermanent...what we believe today may not necessarily be what we believe tomorrow, or maybe it will. Sure is a fun ride though, that's all I know
You have summed up my own belief here. However I do believe there is a "what". There is a practicality to my practice, a what, a path, a course of action. "Right Action" is part of the Eight-fold Path (my own Buddhist practice) and there's nothing wrong with being practical when finding a what you can relate to and follow, especially if it brings you close to understanding sobriety, and better yet, your true nature.

But I do think you and I are bordering semantics and are about to get into physics here. We've got to be careful not to move into duality with this. I think we can settle on the fact we both agree on impermanence and how important that is for us to consider in our path to sobriety.

Be well.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:43 PM
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Its simple for me to conceptualize "never" and "no now" as being the same with regards to drinking. I only need to step out of chronological time and into the permanence of "I do not drink/drug" without the qualifications of "now" or "never".

I believe the point is to close one chapter in life and open a new one. A new direction of living that brings liberation from suffering. I like the idea that once a hindrance has been removed, I become lighter in being.

In the past, doing dope took up all my time, leaving me stuck in life. If I'm stuck in recovery, I need to take a hard deep look at what I'm doing.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Zencat View Post

I believe the point is to close one chapter in life and open a new one. A new direction of living that brings liberation from suffering. I like the idea that once a hindrance has been removed, I become lighter in being..
Love this, very inspiring, thanks.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:40 PM
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However I do believe there is a "what".
I too believe there is a "what", however, as I said above, it's not the "what" that works. What I mean is, I will not expect some program, or idea, or practice, to change me or to save me or to "work" on me, make me better etc. That is up to me and me alone. People in the throes of addiction are desperate, often looking for the holy grail, the thing, the magic bullet. They look everywhere but within. The answers are within.
and fear not...it is not necessary that we agree.
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