Blogs


Notices

Help me out here...

Old 02-14-2012, 05:18 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
Originally Posted by unentschieden View Post
I have a comment back to the original Creekryder post, though reading the ensuing exchanges was quite interesting.

A part of the AVRT book that I found interesting was when it pointed out the similarity between the AV and the voice in my head that tells me to rear end the jerk that just cut me off. I know that I don't want to do that, but there is certainly a part of me that makes me feel the satisfaction of doing it.

AVRT has given that part (or a similar one) a name and given me the power to recognize that I make the decisions for me.

I know now what he means when he says that if you truly subscribe to AVRT you will find it IMPOSSIBLE to drink alcohol. At first that sounded nutty.

While I'm truly thankful for for Terminally Unique's reading recommendations, it almost makes me sad because I may not need the support of this group much longer....thanks to AVRT I feel totally secure in my lifelong abstinence!
To me, this post reveals some of the beauty of AVR, a Technique that puts the Structural Model to use in exposing the awesome impact of the Big Plan. It's my Big Plan, which took about 5 seconds to complete, that is the actual source of making my future drinking impossible. It's a commitment that actually has a vast presence throughout American history. But the fact that literally scores of millions of people have made it, by other names, doesn't mean mine is any more or less secure. The Big Plan is either on, or not yet connected. It can't be turned off. It's not a switch. It's a permanently wired circuit. It doesn't need a lot of power/effort. It's just there.

The mixed feelings about a sense of need for support is nicely expressed by unentschieden, that mixture being part AV. Instead of support I consider these AVRT threads to be information exchange because the AV loves the idea that one might "need the support of this group". And, as I see it in my short time on SR, TU has been admirably accurate in providing information about what is AV and what isn't.

By the way, I translated unentshieden. It means "undecided". No longer, I bet.
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Terminally Unique (02-14-2012)
Old 02-14-2012, 08:15 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:    USA                        Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
I think Wonderland was misunderstood here, I did not read those posts as you did.

Originally Posted by Wonderland View Post
Addressing the brain chemistry in relation to alcohol abuse is very interesting to me. If the original chemical imbalances to be corrected, then perhaps people,like myself, wouldn't derive such enormous pleasure from drinking.
and might not drink at all then.
The ambivalence/uncertainty, which you note with the qualifier "might not" is precisely what makes the statement Addictive Voice. It is also AV because it places a precondition on not drinking, which necessarily implies a condition for drinking in the absence of that precondition.

Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
There is no plan to keep drinking there, TU, nor was there an opportunity for you to lead Wonderland to making A Big Plan concerning future use of alcohol. You have a fabulous hammer in your AVRT master status, but not all posters are nails.
My response was probably too direct, notably with posts #17 and #18, which I was conflicted about, but I decided it might help others who were reading zero in on the more subtle forms of AV in their own thinking. Hopefully she won't take it too personally. Neither a Big Plan, nor AVRT, can be forced on another person.

Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
You know that I am a strong AVRT and TU supporter. However, I think you missed the opportunity for a completely different discussion, the discussion intended by Wonderland. Too bad.
This is true, but this thread wasn't originally about brain chemistry and neurotransmitters. From what I read, Creekryder was having concerns about viewing the Beast of AVRT as a distinct, rational entity.
Terminally Unique is offline  
Old 02-14-2012, 08:22 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:    USA                        Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by unentschieden View Post
I know now what he means when he says that if you truly subscribe to AVRT you will find it IMPOSSIBLE to drink alcohol. At first that sounded nutty.

While I'm truly thankful for for Terminally Unique's reading recommendations, it almost makes me sad because I may not need the support of this group much longer....thanks to AVRT I feel totally secure in my lifelong abstinence!
As GerandTwine noted, AVRT is not really about support per se, at least not in the usual sense. Furthermore, if support becomes a precondition for not drinking, which necessarily implies that without support, one will drink, then the desire for support is actually Addictive Voice. That said, it is entirely up to you whether or not to stick around here. While I think that since you grasped AVRT so quickly, you might be able to help others grasp it, there is no obligation for you to do so, and I wish you the best either way.
Terminally Unique is offline  
Old 02-14-2012, 09:31 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
Self recovered Self discovered
 
freshstart57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,147
Originally Posted by Creekryder View Post
First of all, let me make the point clear that I am not denouncing AVRT. It is basically what I have felt for years. But I would like to address a question I have been mulling over in my mind.
Is is a good thing to separate ourselves from ourselves? When we talk of the "beast", it is like it is a foreign invader that has taken over our actions. But isn't it, in reality, not an alien but a part of us? And within my belief system, integration of oneself is imperative to be complete and healthy? I can't put my finger quite squarely on it at present, but something is not ringing true with me. I have used the analogy of the beast numerous times but am beginning to feel this disassociation with a part of myself disturbing. By all means this addictive part must be controlled as it is dangerous. But this fragmentation is concern to me.
I appreciate your thoughts.
This has become an AVRT discussion, and I like those plenty, but there may be a different and more comprehensive idea here. This idea of dissociation from our harmful tendencies, a core concept from AVRT, is not novel or new. It can be found in many many paradigms which can lead a state of grace, enlightenment, nirvana, and so on.

I am learning to appreciate the idea that we recognize distractions (such as an urge to drink, or the urge to rear-end that jerk on the freeway) as they enter our consciousness, but that we don't act on them, we don't even judge them. Instead, we separate ourselves from these distractions because they do not come from our Buddha nature / our Christian soul / our sober self etc. They are not 'us'.

Another way to look at this is to consider that by shrinking the attachment suffering / the pain body / moral failings, we are creating space inside ourselves for enlightenment / serenity / state of grace and allowing that to become the dominant force in our lives.

These are some of the parallels and comparisons that I have been thinking about, how to get rid of the junk like addiction so that I can make room for concern for others and serenity for myself.
freshstart57 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to freshstart57 For This Useful Post:
Terminally Unique (02-14-2012), topspin (02-14-2012), Zencat (02-15-2012)
Old 02-14-2012, 10:21 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:    USA                        Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post

Originally Posted by unentschieden View Post
I know now what he means when he says that if you truly subscribe to AVRT you will find it IMPOSSIBLE to drink alcohol. At first that sounded nutty.
The Big Plan is either on, or not yet connected. It can't be turned off. It's not a switch. It's a permanently wired circuit. It doesn't need a lot of power/effort. It's just there.
This sounds correct, and Trimpey once compared AVRT to removing the firing pin from a gun, so that it can no longer work. The implication being that with AVRT in place, drinking or using is no longer possible.

Originally Posted by Jack Trimpey

AVRT distinguishes between the proximal cause of addiction, the Addictive Voice, and the distal causes, which are always incorporated into the Addictive Voice. The epidemiology and etiology of addiction are moot points, because we are only concerned with the proximal cause of drinking, the Addictive Voice, i.e., the Beast... In AVRT, these distal "causes" of addiction are recognized as "explanations" or "reasons" for why, why, why people drink or use drugs, and, I hope, assigned to the scrap heap we call "the Addictive Voice."

An analogy could be drawn from someone shooting a gun. There may be many "reasons" or "explanations" on why the person shot the gun (distal causes), but the proximal cause for the bullet flying over the hill is that the firing pin struck the powder, resulting in an explosion that sent the bullet flying. AVRT is akin to removing the firing pin from the gun so that no matter what distal causes exist... the drinking/drugging response will not occur. It's just not there.

Excerpt from the "Trimpey-Ellis Debate"
Journal of RR, Vol 7, #2, Iss. 38, Nov-Dec 1994
Copyright () Jack Trimpey
All Rights Reserved

Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (02-17-2012), Zencat (02-15-2012)
Old 02-14-2012, 10:39 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:    USA                        Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
This idea of dissociation from our harmful tendencies, a core concept from AVRT, is not novel or new.
Indeed it isn't, and you can find almost direct analogues in the scriptures of many ancient religions, certainly in the Bible.

Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
I am learning to appreciate the idea that we recognize distractions (such as an urge to drink, or the urge to rear-end that jerk on the freeway) as they enter our consciousness, but that we don't act on them, we don't even judge them.
This very thing is discussed in The Art of AVRT, and an analogy is made between one's stream of consciousness and a conveyor belt.

Originally Posted by The Art of AVRT by Jack Trimpey

Your duty is to stand duty at the portal of your mind and simply recognize the Addictive Voice as it streams by. Think of a conveyor belt fed ping-pong balls through a tube, and your job is to sort the bad ones from the good. However, all the bad ones are bright red and have "Danger" written all over them. For you, the most conspicuous matter in the universe is the stuff of your addiction or ideas about it. You also that the sole cause of addiction is the Addictive Voice, the red balls. This is very easy because it takes no effort to recognize something if you know what you're looking for.

From "The Art of AVRT" (Pg 110)
Copyright 2010 by Jack Trimpey
All Rights Reserved
Terminally Unique is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:30 PM.