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dumb question.... am I "secular" or not?

Old 01-07-2008, 07:57 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:48 PM
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:13 PM
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:03 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ccirider View Post
Most atheists would say to you that atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god, so there was no faith to lose from the beginning.
Originally Posted by KariSue View Post
It IS a lack of belief in God (by definition of the word) so there is no faith to lose.
Hi KariSue:

So we agree on the above.

Originally Posted by ccirider View Post
However, I believe that we all worship someone or something, including atheists, whether it be an inanimate object, ourselves, etc.
Originally Posted by KariSue View Post
BUT the definition of ATHEISM isn't lack of belief in ANYTHING, it's the lack of belief in a DEITY ONLY. Do you see how you're expanding the definition to fit your own beliefs? Atheists believe in many things. Just not deities. I can't think of anything I worship. I'm an atheist.


I don't think that I am expanding the definition at all. I am merely making a distinction between believing and worshipping. People can believe in the existence of a God and choose not to worship that God, such as deists do. Similarly, some people can engage in self-worship while at the same time deny that they are doing anything of the sort. They have become gods, de facto, yet they deny the existence of any gods. I am not saying that you are worshipping yourself. I am just saying that it is possible for one to do so and deny it.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:58 PM
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I don't think that I am expanding the definition at all. I am merely making a distinction between believing and worshipping. People can believe in the existence of a God and choose not to worship that God, such as deists do. Similarly, some people can engage in self-worship while at the same time deny that they are doing anything of the sort. They have become gods, de facto, yet they deny the existence of any gods. I am not saying that you are worshipping yourself. I am just saying that it is possible for one to do so and deny it.[/QUOTE]

Hi ccirider, Hmmm, I'm wondering if you think most atheists worship themselves because they don't believe in a deity. That is an interesting concept that never ever even occurred to me. Is that what you mean? If so, I can only speak for myself of course, but I feel like I just AM. I don't feel like I worship anything at all. The way I look at it is that instead of concentrating on "something up there" I concentrate on people helping people. How we got here or where we are going (if anywhere) after we die are both unknowns. If I need help with something I focus on other people for my inspiration/help. That sort of thing. People helping people rather than a HP helping.

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Old 01-19-2008, 08:40 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ccirider
I don't think that I am expanding the definition at all. I am merely making a distinction between believing and worshipping. People can believe in the existence of a God and choose not to worship that God, such as deists do. Similarly, some people can engage in self-worship while at the same time deny that they are doing anything of the sort. They have become gods, de facto, yet they deny the existence of any gods. I am not saying that you are worshipping yourself. I am just saying that it is possible for one to do so and deny it.
Originally Posted by KariSue
Hi ccirider, Hmmm, I'm wondering if you think most atheists worship themselves because they don't believe in a deity. That is an interesting concept that never ever even occurred to me. Is that what you mean?
I don't believe that I ever said that most atheists worship themselves. I said, "I am not suggesting that ALL atheists deify themselves, but I think it's safe to say that some (meaning 1 or more) do, just like some theists deify themselves." Perhaps, if I were to post a verse from the Quran, that might help you understand what I believe.

43. Do you not see the one who has taken his own passion (or impulse) as his god? Are you going to be a guardian (disposer of his affairs) for him? (Surah 25, Verse 43)

Anything can be an object of worship, so why can't someone's passion be that object of worship? Does not an addict, in the latter stages of his addiction, treat his passion like an object of worship? He obsesses over it, and compulsively acts it out as if he is performing a daily ritual. I would say that is a form of worship, just like idol worship or hero worship is a form of worship.

The point I was making is that believing and worshipping are two different things. As I said, one can believe in the existence of a god and choose not to worship that god, as deists do. Similarly, an atheist addict can worship his passion, while at the same time deny that he is doing so. Most addicts deny that they are addicts, anyway, so what is another denial among many? I am not here to bash atheist addicts, since many theist addicts are in denial that they are worshipping their passion, also. As a matter of fact, I am not here to bash addicts, theists or atheists, since I once had a drinking and drugging problem myself.

Islam worked for me to get sober, but it's not everybody. As the last part of that verse said, "Are you going to be a guardian (disposer of his affairs) for him?" I am not brothers keeper, nor am I a babysitter/guardian over him. I can't fix people or make them face their problems. Actions have consequences and people need to suffer the consequences of their own actions without me enabling them.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:43 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ccirider View Post
You are not a Christian if you do not meet the qualifications of being a Christian, but that doesn't mean that you are secularist. All non-Christians are not secularists.
What are the qualifications to being a christian could you please clarify because i never knew till today there was a certificate attached to it. Thought it was all about living a life as a good human being and making the world a better place to live in.would love to hear your views on it.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sj2012 View Post
What are the qualifications to being a christian could you please clarify because i never knew till today there was a certificate attached to it. Thought it was all about living a life as a good human being and making the world a better place to live in.would love to hear your views on it.
Belief is Christ is generally a criteria if you want to be a Christian. That's just off the top of my head.
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