erutxet

I've been in AA for three months and I ended up in the psychiatric ward after taking the third step of the program, which is to turn your life and your will over to a higher power as you understand him. I put my whole life into this step and I ended up feeling out of control, like I had no say in what happened to me. I felt pressure to be something I wasn't at the expense of my sobriety and that really messed me up. I'm picking up the pieces now. I've distanced myself from the AA program because I have a resentment toward it. I feel like I am a powerless, worthless piece of **** who needs God to recover, and I never wanted that. All I wanted was a way to stop drinking, not catholic guilt. I even started going to church again because I thought it would make my sobriety better, and then I felt guilty for not going to church enough and reading the bible everyday. I've never been a paticularly religious person and it angers me that AA forced me to search for my spiritual side as a way to deal with my problems with no alternative. It's still even hard to pull away from God at this point because I took the God aspect too seriously. I went in way too deep. I thought Jesus Christ was talking to me through AA and all this crap, it was horrible. I plan to go to AA again at some point but as a liberated atheist who appreciates all people's journey in sobriety, but understands that spirituality is not the only way.

tomsteve

i am sorry to see you have such a terrible misunderstanding of the program of AA and are blaming that on your situation. AA hasnt forced you to do anything. you did it willingly and were able to walk away at any time.

if you get a sponsor that knows the program, they can explain that there is no religious affiliation. it is not a religious program.

reading what you wrote, i have to say you didnt have a sponsor. the program doenst make a person fell guilty. hellm, thats how we were when we drank! it shows us how to get rid of it and how to live sober.

Rossy

I'd love to express my honest views on this but I have a feeling I would get a warning from a Mod.

Gavinandnikki

"is not a religious program."

I strongly disagree with this statement.

Turning one's life and will over to (a) God, asking "Him" to remove defects of character and praying are activities that I believe, are very religious.

Just my opinion.

I hope you recover quickly and regain balance and sobriety in your life.

Pam

aeo1313

I've read your other posts- are you letting doctors help you at all with medications etc? It has sounded like you have more going on then just alcoholism. I wish the best for you.

Zencat

I'm unsettled that you have had such a traumatic experience with AA erutxet. I was dangerously naive when I enter the AA program for the first time. I did quickly educate myself about AA from outside sources after I had a near fatal reaction to the the AA program. I ended in up at an emergency room = psychiatric evaluation = I ended up causing myself brain damage once again...man that sucks

As an implicit atheist AA member I understand that AA is itself is not a typical religion. The program of AA is more akin to being religious in nature with its mystical spirituality of the 12-steps...still not a religion.

The problem I have encountered is with AA members that treat the program as a religion. These people can be very dogmatic about the program. A slogan like "work the program or die" is deceiving. Some AA member can be powerfully persuasive and their tactics are not always honest when talking newcomers into the program.

AA dose not demand a person to believe anything, yet there is a list of "musts" that is needed to follow the program as laid out in the BB. The confusion can be that the program is suggested, so its an individual choice to work it or not, but once one decides to work it, there are requirements (musts) to be met for successful completion of the program, as written in the BB.

Well I hope this thread doesn't get the . As long as the is no flaming and stuff everything should be chill.

KDL

I have been told many times by AA members that it is not a religion. BUT, in the groups that I go to, I have yet to meet someone to openly discuss not believing in God as typically understood in Christian religions.

I would love to hear how atheists reconcile the concepts in the 12-Steps for themselves.

Sorry you have had an upsetting experience. From the additional posts, it sounds like it is a complicated situation for you.

I have only been to one AA meeting where I was cornered and lectured to that I would only ever be a dry drunk unless I believed in a "higher power of my choosing". Those words lose meaning when followed by pressure to "just use my god for now until you come around".

I came home and told my husband that fortunately that has not been my experience in most AA meetings, or that probably would have been my last one.

Lenina

Eru,

have you looked at other programs for sobriety? rational recovery has worked well for me. you might start by reading this thread from the Secular Connections thread.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iscussion.html

I hope you're getting some help from a good therapist or a trained professional to help with the other issues. I know the time I spent in therapy helped me sort things out and put them in a better place.

Hope this helps.

Love from Lenina

digderidoo

Step 3 isn't about Jesus, whoever has been telling you that is wrong.

There is no action required in step 3, the only thing to do is 'make a decision'. It then speaks of a God of your understanding, which doesn't have to be a God of a Christian's understanding.

G (group) O(of) D(Drunks) ... the AA group was enough for me to start working step 3. I made a decision to turn my will and life over to those in the room that were willing to help me, i couldn't do it on my own. The reality is i made this decision at my first step meeting and i didn't know it.

Taking5

Dig is 100% correct. No where in step 3 does it say to turn your will and life over to god. It says you "make a decision" to do so. The actual turning over of your will and life comes when you work steps 4 thru 9, IMHO.

neferkamichael

Erutext, always remember, in an AA meeting you are still dealing with a group of drunks. I'm glad you are taking a proactive approach to your sobriety. Do you need AA to stay sober? The answer to that is absolutely NO. I go to AA for the fellowship of men an women who have a desire to stop drinking. The
1st and most important reason I stay sober is because I want to stay sober.

jennikate

I agree with Dig's post. I am a tried and true athiest and had huge problems with the language used in the steps. However, I kept coming (with some relapses in between) and eventually decided that the group would be my higher power. There are people there who have succeeded in staying sober for as long as I've been alive (or close). Who am I to argue with that? It took me a long time but I now feel like I'm among people who understand what I am going through. I feel a sense of calm at meetings.

I do also openly discuss that I am an athiest and haven't had any lectures. I'm sure there are those who don't approve but they haven't said anything. I do the same when they talk about how much God has helped them. To each their own. Like they say "take what you like and leave the rest".

With that being said, there are some meetings which have a more religious overtone than others. I just choose a different meeting that suits my personality/needs, etc.

Hollyanne

Last week, I went to an AA mtg.
I had driven an hour to get there and there were two men there.
We started our meeting and as it turns out, all three of us had dealt with severe depression.
We joked about parking the AA stuff and having a Depression Anonymous meeting instead.
We went on for well over the hour talking about our struggles with depression. Medication, treatment, psychiatrists etc. It was wonderful. We all agreed that it was indeed a very special meeting.
Fellowship is very important. The "Group Of Drunks" thing is joked about, but right there, was a group of drunks keeping eachother sober.
I have many friends now. Deep, close friendships. I would be lost without them.
This is a huge part of AA. There are many, many people in the mtgs who stand silent when prayers are said. No-one bats an eye. They instantly turn and shake hands with someone after.
Mark has a thingy at the end of his posts, "Be kind to everyone, for they are fighting a great battle." I like that.
AA did not put anyone in the psych ward. Untreated mental illness puts one in the psych ward. AA does not recommend this approach. If someone in the meeting is insisting that you do not need any outside help, they are wrong.
Far more common in my experience, is that someone sobers up in AA or whatever program and chooses, with new-found energy and clarity, to seek outside help for issues related to mental health, abuse, finances, physical health, dental health etc.
Ok, sorry for the rant.

Zencat

True, AA dose not cause mental illness as far as I know. My past experience with God talk in the steps, BB, meetings, people and whatnot has stirred-up the part of my brain where I hear God! That is, my reaction to all that exposure to God stuff, coupled with my mental illness, starts a reaction (prompt symptoms) inside my noggin that can make me to get batty in the belfry. That once dormant and managed with medication part of me emerges again and that can suck.

I know people will just not get it, that's life. Hearing voices that I know are not there yet can hear them as plain as day...that stuff is not AA meeting topic material. Having those once managed voices and accompanying wacky thoughts that can go with them...triggered by God talk dose not make for good step work.

Maybe I have stirred-up some understanding by my POV and the trouble that I have had and hope not to have again anytime soon with mental illness symptoms and God jazz. Or maybe not. Hey similes lighten-up heavy online discussion, so I'll max out on them.

freshstart57

Some programs claim to be not religious, but merely spiritual. This is an interesting claim. The 12 steps mirror the Roman Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation, also known as Confession, in its entirety.

The RC church actually publishes its philosophy concerning Confession in a summary of doctrine document called The Catechism of the Catholic Church. Take a look, the similarities are stunning.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 2 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 4

Db1105

I've been sober a long time just using the fellowship and the 12 steps of AA as my higher power. I must admit it was quite a battle to overcome the religious brain washing the was instilled in me growing up. I just had to zero in on the concept of only a power greater than myself. I also believe that standing my ground against some of the religious zeolites found in AA made me a better person. I'm not in AA to appease them, I'm here for me to get better.

Taking5

Rather than taking a shot at "some programs", and why you disagree with them, why not try to be useful and tell the OP what you did to get or stay sober? You obviously use AVRT, so please share about it.

freshstart57

A fair comment, dgillz. I share about AVRT often, and take almost every opportunity to do so, but I guess I miss one now and then.

I like the idea of an unconditional sobriety, one that does not require a strengthened spiritual state for its success. I think that it might be more a question of sequence for me. Sobriety has led me to a more mindful state, a condition where I have been able to explore my spiritual side. It has given me the ability to consider myself in the context of the greater consciousness, something I could never have contemplated while in active addiction.

So, for me it was sobriety first, then a more spiritual existence, sort of a happy byproduct of the process, as opposed to a more spiritual existence as a condition of sobriety. Forced spirituality of any kind is anathema to me.

onlythetruth

Well, the reality is that enforced ANYTHING when it comes to recovery is a bad idea.

We are all different. What works for one of us may well be a crashing disaster for someone else. I believe that any progress or enlightenment to be had in the area of addiction recovery absolutely has to recognize this.

Erutxet, your reaction was not "wrong" and I am sorry if others have suggested that it was. I respect your reaction and I urge you, rather than blaming yourself or attempting to twist yourself into someone else's worldview, to seek out other recovery approaches that might be a better fit. Look into SMART Recovery or AVRT; check out the Secular Recovery forum here on SR and most of all pay attention to your own reactions to things. In the end, recovery really does mean being true to yourself.

miamifella

I think a big part of making AA work is deciding what you will NOT do.

I remember being told that being in the program means that you never make any kind of life plan--rather just let things be directed by my higher power (and being read passages in the BB to back that up). I remember being told I had to take orders from my sponsor on whatever whim he had, to prove my willingness.

It was almost like being challenged to draw a line in the sand. I often worried about the people I saw who were so desperate and willing that they would quit jobs, sell their cars, and give up wearing green or blue or whatever the color was that week.

I am glad that after going through hell you are looking at recovery with a stronger sense of self and a stronger set of boundaries.

I used to get in trouble because I would not say The Lord's Prayer at the end of meetings. It always seemed disingenuous to claim that the program is not religious, but always close with a specifically Christian prayer. But after I started this a few other people also stopped saying the words at the end of meetings. Sometimes, you just have to stand up for your own beliefs.