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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 4

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 4

Old 04-13-2012, 11:31 AM
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:15 PM
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He apparently isn't familiar w/ AVRT & the correlation TU was making.
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove View Post
I am about to criticize the above paragraph because it is an intellectual exercise in pursuit of discovering what is true (and not an angry outlashing or anything like that. Please understand, I'll say it again in another way: Criticism of a religious belief or argument is not angry outlashing. It is just criticism. Deal with it.
You are apparently not familiar with AVRT, nor does it appear that you have any interest whatsoever in learning about it. Rather, you seem to have some sort of problem with Christianity, and have seized upon one single paragraph out of all my posts to vent your frustrations. Even though I myself am atheist, that simply will not work here, DrStrangelove. Please take such grievances elsewhere.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:24 AM
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Replacing drugs with sweet foods...

So I have been finding now I dont take drugs and dont have the opportunity that my mind screams out for some kind of pleasure as my life is very drab otherwise. I wake up work, sleep. Thats about it.

I really disagree with what trimpey says about having other rewarding activities not solving your drug issues. I mean my mind craves stimulation from somewhere. I guess he says you should still solve your life problems once you are abstinent which I guess would cover this issue too.

In the interim I've been finding myself eating fatty foods and sweet foods a bit more just so my mind can have some sort of feelgood. Im sure this is still alot less than most ppl have in their regular diet but still after having a cpl of fillings and putting on weight easily -in the past- I'd like to replace it with more productive things longterm.

Im only talking like a fatty meal or a cake every cpl of weeks. So not crazy binge eating or anything.

Playing my instrument has really been great for one thing on the long term front.

The issue is that the other things in my life arent really proving fruitful at the moment and its nearly all just a daily grind. My business is going extremely slowly not turning any profit. Social life is pretty non existent.

Now you can do all the 'beast wordplay' you want saying that my beast wants the stimulation and not me but it doesnt get rid of the pervasive pain of lack of mental stimulation.

Ive generally been thinking that eating some sweet/fatty foods now and then is a 'lesser evil' offering me a little respite while I keep on keeping on with my other productive endeavours until they yield the fruits of labour and thus become rewarding in themselves.

Generally in life I find, unsurprisingly, that the most rewarding things take the most effort, which is fine, but what do you do when you are working at several very difficult things simultaneously which may be rewarding someday in the future but currently compound on each other to make everything seem like a slog? I think there has to be 'pitstops' along the way.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IAmAbstinent View Post
So I have been finding now I dont take drugs and dont have the opportunity that my mind screams out for some kind of pleasure as my life is very drab otherwise... Thoughts?
Your addictive voice is trying to set up a bargain situation, suggesting that since you have quit getting drunk and high, that life needs to get much better, right now! You can bet that it will eventually start suggesting that if it doesn't, you may as well get high.

Are you honestly saying that you can't think of anything to do? That you don't know what what floats your boat? I recommend reading for the mind and exercise for the body, both of which are active, healthy, and promote discipline and growth. The exact opposite of simply getting high.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:50 PM
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crap i lost a longish reply due to 'token expired' and didnt do my usual ctrl + c before submit.

Suffice to say my previous post wasnt the whole truth -and the beast wanted to keep it quiet- in that I had been having alot of recent beast activity in hindsight going so far as planning another drugging session and searching online for a potential purchase. I know RR doesnt like to 'count days' but I think it is significant in that this is around the exact time I would usually have relapsed after a couple of months swearing myself of drugs.

I snapped out of it when I had some troubling news recently about a past relationship which Im going to have to deal with in due course but then thinking to myself how great it will be to be able to deal with it form a place of 'secure abstinence'.

Just picked up my RR book for a refresher.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Your addictive voice is trying to set up a bargain situation, suggesting that since you have quit getting drunk and high, that life needs to get much better, right now! You can bet that it will eventually start suggesting that if it doesn't, you may as well get high.

Are you honestly saying that you can't think of anything to do? That you don't know what what floats your boat? I recommend reading for the mind and exercise for the body, both of which are active, healthy, and promote discipline and growth. The exact opposite of simply getting high.
I agree with TU, if you associate AV with healthy cravings as a replacement like food/sweets or water/pop then its a set up by your AV, but I do find myself enjoying healthy cravings "in moderation" now that I have identified the AV leach for what "it" is and no longer allow it in my thinking. Food and plain water just taste better now.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BelizeDiver View Post
I agree with TU, if you associate AV with healthy cravings as a replacement like food/sweets or water/pop then its a set up by your AV, but I do find myself enjoying healthy cravings "in moderation" now that I have identified the AV leach for what "it" is and no longer allow it in my thinking. Food and plain water just taste better now.
i dont understand what you mean here by associating av with healthy cravings?
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:57 PM
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Im really lost , im working on day 5 right now and i've been skimming through the previous threads. I'm stuck on the first one. " I will never drink again " . Why can't I drink again ? People have beers all the time and they're not alcoholics. I don't see why I cant just get a handle on it to where I can have a few and be ok ( but not everynight of course ) . Especially now in the beginning it just seems way too overwhelming to make a commitment like that. I know somebody said " one day at a time " and that seems a bit more uplifting. Like all I have to do is worry about not doing it today and I can worry about tomorrows urges tomorrow. I'm not submitting to failure but just saying i'll handle those problems when they come not right now. Am I missing something ? Any advice ?
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by IAmAbstinent View Post
i dont understand what you mean here by associating av with healthy cravings?
Sorry IAm I should have Quoted your Replacing drugs with sweet foods... post. I think craving food or sweets in moderation is healthy. Just meant any cravings can be disguised by the Beast as a trap.

Originally Posted by IAmAbstinent View Post
Replacing drugs with sweet foods...
So I have been finding now I dont take drugs and dont have the opportunity that my mind screams out for some kind of pleasure as my life is very drab otherwise. I wake up work, sleep. Thats about it.

I really disagree with what trimpey says about having other rewarding activities not solving your drug issues. I mean my mind craves stimulation from somewhere. I guess he says you should still solve your life problems once you are abstinent which I guess would cover this issue too.

In the interim I've been finding myself eating fatty foods and sweet foods a bit more just so my mind can have some sort of feelgood.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by IAmAbstinent View Post
I had been having alot of recent beast activity in hindsight going so far as planning another drugging session and searching online for a potential purchase.
The thoughts of another drugging session may have been Beast activity, but searching online for a potential drug purchase was not. That was IamAbstinent activity. The Beast can't move a mouse, type at a keyboard, or use Google.

When I stopped, only to start up again, I had approached it with the idea that if things didn't get better, and quickly, back to the bottle I would go. The bargain thinking had to go. When you made your Big Plan, was it an experiment, to see how it goes? Did you cut a deal with the Beast?
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott231 View Post
Im really lost , im working on day 5 right now and i've been skimming through the previous threads. I'm stuck on the first one. " I will never drink again " . Why can't I drink again ? People have beers all the time and they're not alcoholics.
You can do whatever you want, Scott231, provided you are willing to accept the likely consequences, and it doesn't matter one whit if you are 'an alcoholic' or not. Have you read "Rational Recovery: The New Cure" or gone through the free AVRT crash course?

Originally Posted by Scott231 View Post
I don't see why I cant just get a handle on it to where I can have a few and be ok ( but not everynight of course ).
With this statement, you are effectively saying that you can't drink like all those other people who can have a few beers without all those bad consequences. The only people who yearn to drink moderately are those who have already proven that they cannot do so. Why else would they yearn to drink moderately?

As for why drinking moderately usually doesn't work, see this post:

Small amounts of alcohol :

Actually, you might want to read that entire thread:

Crossing the Threshold :


Originally Posted by Scott231 View Post
Especially now in the beginning it just seems way too overwhelming to make a commitment like that. I know somebody said " one day at a time " and that seems a bit more uplifting. Like all I have to do is worry about not doing it today and I can worry about tomorrows urges tomorrow.
You are deeply ambivalent about your drinking. Part of you wants to stop drinking, or at least drink without the bad consequences, and another part of you wants to keep drinking forever. This is the hallmark of addiction.

The ODAAT thing works for some people, in AA or not, but that's not how we do things with AVRT. "Never say never to the possible future use of alcohol and other drugs" is the cardinal rule of addiction itself. AVRT goes straight for the jugular and smashes it.

Originally Posted by Scott231 View Post
I'm not submitting to failure but just saying i'll handle those problems when they come not right now.
Your addictive voice is attacking, saying don't say never now. AVRT is a "now" approach, however. "I will never drink again" is equivalent to "I will never now drink" or "I will never drink in the present moment." See this post on the static time idea in AVRT:

Originally Posted by Scott231 View Post
Am I missing something ? Any advice ?
Go through the free AVRT crash course, and get yourself a copy of Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey. Make an interim plan, such as "I will not drink for the next two weeks, during which time I will get the book and read it, along with this entire thread." Then, make up your mind.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:00 AM
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regarding the sweet foods thing..

In the past my beast has used a 'slippery slope' technique to justify another drug session.

It goes something like this 'you eat fatty/sweet foods simply for pleasure alone since they have no nutritional value...if you're going to do that you might as well go the whole hog and just take drugs cos they give the BESt pleasure'.

Could someone untangle this? or is there no untangling to do since shining a light on the AV is enough to squash it?

Or rather not untangle but what is a 'healthy'/non AV way to view eating sweet/fatty foods?

I still feel kind of guilty for eating them, AV or not, but I guess that is another matter which can be addressed once I've taken out the AV form the equation. Thoughts?
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:07 AM
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My theory is our pleasure receptors get pretty shot using drugs or alcohol. I think a declaw mode can be translated as a sweet craving. But that craving kicks the door open for the AV to start the negotiation into using/drinking.

There can be no negotiation when you've made a Big Plan. When you make the resolution to never drink/use and never change your mind, the contract is made. Does this make sense to you? That's how I see it.

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Old 04-15-2012, 03:34 AM
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What does one do with the lack of pleasure tho since it still looms heavy in the room?

Should I just resolve to be more patient?

Granted I havent really made many concerted efforts to add other things into my life as yet except for playing my instrument which is good but I still find myself getting spent playing it for an hour or so a day then twiddling my thumbs a little. I just have to get a cpl of other things I guess to 'fill the gap'.

I used to exercise regularly so I guess I'll start up my weights again which is another good one and has the upshot of giving a few feelgood chemicals which, rather than sweet food, might indeed provide the productive replacement I am after.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:58 AM
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exercise is good. It will kick up the endorphins.

I think you're making the connection to messed up pleasure receptors with feeling a lack of pleasure. Sometimes we need to relearn our joy. food is an obvious choice. Try some more simple pleasures, like seeing some art, movies, the company and conversation with real friends. take moment to enjoy the changing sky, birds flying. Do a good deed for someone.

These are a few things come to my mind.

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Old 04-15-2012, 03:58 AM
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exercise is good. It will kick up the endorphins.

I think you're making the connection to messed up pleasure receptors with feeling a lack of pleasure. Sometimes we need to relearn our joy. food is an obvious choice. Try some more simple pleasures, like seeing some art, movies, the company and conversation with real friends. take moment to enjoy the changing sky, birds flying. Do a good deed for someone.

These are a few things come to my mind.

Love from Lenina
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:49 AM
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I dont think its messed up so much as releanring new associations to pleasure I guess it amounts to pretty much the same thing.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:57 AM
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Wht to do now that I have quit drinking or using?

Read a book.
Go to the movies.
Watch TV.
Cook something special for myself or better yet, someone else.
Spend some time thinking about what I really enjoy doing in life.
This is a big one for me...start running (again in my case). Ran my first 5K race in over 25 years yesterday. 36:10! Not bad for a fat old guy.
Take up Buddhism.
Take some college courses just for fun.
Bike rides.
Walks on the beach.

Actualy have a life again. I now have my own life and life is good.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by IAmAbstinent View Post
In the past my beast has used a 'slippery slope' technique to justify another drug session.

It goes something like this 'you eat fatty/sweet foods simply for pleasure alone since they have no nutritional value...if you're going to do that you might as well go the whole hog and just take drugs cos they give the BESt pleasure'.
The Beast's only concern is for pleasure. It does not care about your life or health. It feels no pain, only desperation when losing its fix. All IT wants is its next fix. It will feel or say anything to convince you to feed it its fix. What do you care if it suffers from deprivation? Let it yammer away, it can't hurt you. If it's really a problem, stop eating candy bars.

Originally Posted by IAmAbstinent View Post
What does one do with the lack of pleasure tho since it still looms heavy in the room?
Within the bubble of addiction, pleasure is confused with happiness, but they are not one and the same. To your Beast, life without chemically-induced pleasure is hollow and meaningless. To you, it means hope for a life. Get a grip, IamA, and tighten up all the screws. Is your Big Plan an experiment? Are you going to get high again or aren't you? How bored are you willing to get and still not get high?
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