Dee74

It is a different substance but, as Free Owl is suggesting, my experience showed me it's EXACTLY the same process of addiction and it needs the same programme of recovery, whatever that means to you.

D

FreeOwl

Thanks.... yeah, my struggle WAS alcohol... for a very long time.

I chose to embrace sobriety and I became FreeOwl and Free of Alcohol...... also free of marijuana because I had tried sobriety once in full earnest but kept on smoking weed, and it led me back to alcohol.

Over the past year, I allowed weed back in. At first, 'occasionally'. Only from time to time......

Then, always on hand but only 'in moderatin'....

Then, always on hand and often 'in secret' - though I'd totally acknowledge it, just didn't overtly mention it.....

Then..... multiple times a day and often in secret and never quite owning up to the real amount of my use and then....

Deciding NOT to use any cannabis.... and only lasting a day or two before saying 'screw it'....

Then - coming to SR and outing myself and vowing to return to sobriety.....

Then STILL failing to stick to it beyond 5 days.....

And along the way - countless negotiations, countless inner debates, countless round-and-round-and-round the mind inner dialogues about the degree to which I was or was not behaving 'like an addict'. All along, seeing quite clearly that this was no different... but also surrounded by the overzealous enthusiasm of a state overcome with legalization and a daily influx of new weed shops..... weed shops literally across the street from weed shops.... the continual 'its medicine' narrative.... blah blah blah. On and on. You name it.... every checkbox of the alcoholic's behavior with alcohol checked off as I observed with increasing affirmation that my own weed patterns map approximately 1:1 with my own alcohol patterns. sure, the overt damage is relatively less, I suppose...... but the really important things; like being present and fully aware of my own life, for example, are the same.

Most recently, I even observed myself crossing that strange threshold where more and more and more doesn't seem to even DO anything apart from have a depressing effect on my emotions.....

Much like when the vodka stops producing anything like a pleasant sensation and simply becomes something one does because to do otherwise is uncomfortable....

For me, overcoming these patterns with alcohol was about making, planning, defending, committing to being present and fully engaged in my own life and in the lives of the people I love and care about...... and just keeping at it until it stuck and I'd fully MADE the choice.

So - back on that same method to move past this detour in my recovery that has been a mistake, but which has also helped me reaffirm what I really want for me, for my life, for those around me.....

Lpg

Free owl first of all thank you for starting this thread. I too am sober from alcohol (3 years and 1 month) but still currently using cannabis every evening, I feel like it totally takes away from my 'soberity' in alcohol and I feel like a fraud for even using that word. I know using these types of statements aren't helpful to myself and only leads me to feeling disappointed in myself.
I feel like I can't engage to help others and I'm not truly where I'd like to be in recovery just yet.

I started to type up a post earlier and deleted it because I know Im accountable once I do & tbh i find quitting cannabis so difficult. I had a spell back in sept I managed 2 weeks weed free.

I don't sleep well either without it which makes it harder, the dreams get crazy when I quit and I get to a point I just want to rest so bad. I always say it keeps me sober from alcohol too. Everything you said resonates with me so much. 'running out to the garage' yep that's me too.
I decided earlier today I was going to try and go without that spliff tonight, so not saying it's day 1 for now but I'm going for it tonight.

I love your determination here.

Dee74

sorry to hear you're still struggling with it too lpg.

D

FreeOwl

Well.... I'd love to have some companionship and support in this. If you're game, I'm game.

Coming to the end of Day Two again here.... just walked out to the mailbox and observed my mind wandering to thoughts of hitting up a dispensary.... having a some edibles.... 'just for the mindset shift'....... 'to relax'...... 'so I can sleep'.....

It's all baloney. It's the same damn thing as alcohol. And it's stealing my life.

How nice it will be, when I truly arise back out of the rut of addiction and get back to the level of presence and awareness and engagement and clear thinking that I had for most of my nearly 7 years of sobriety.

Like you, it feels a little fraudulent to me to claim sobriety while I'm still struggling with cannabis. But, honeslty, that's just a personal narrative we all have to work on for ourselves. If I give myself the personal narrative that I'm a fraud - then it will absolutely undermine my sobriety from alcohol. I'm not willing to accept that, so I honor my almost 7 years of sobriety. It remains a huge thing. A life-saving thing. I have no doubt that if I were back to drinking, I would be dead, in prison or have killed someone.

But at the same time, I am no longer able to live with mySELF while trying to maintain to myself that cannabis is "OK". It's not OK for me, and the evidence of my very own life confirms it.

So. You're no fraud.

But you are correct that you have now made yourself accountable. Not to me, not to this forum, not to anyone else but YOU. For having admitted to yourself that this is an issue - you now own the outcome. You don't have to stop. Yet, you also don't have to keep using. It's truly your choice.

If you want to make the choice to shed yourself of another layer of addiction, open yourself to new layers of your own truth, purpose and life - then by golly I'm here for ya. And I'm sure it'll also help me.



no pressure tho. All you.

FreeOwl

oh and by the way - you can absolutely still help others by your example with sobriety. Don't let that voice undermine you. It's stuff like that which can lead to 'eff it' mentality... and for me anyway, 'eff it' mentality leads nowhere I want to be.

Lpg

I know dee, me too.

Sounds like a plan, I'll certainly give it a try anyway so first night went to sleep now awaken after 4 hours sleep feeling wide awake 😴 will try not to get stressed about this though as I know eventually it will pass, night sweats started already. Normally that's takes a few days to start.

Thank you for the outlook re feeling like a fraud, I know talking this way really is unhelpful. When I tried to quit before I thought well screw it I may aswell reset my sober time which scarily led me to the thought of well may aswell have a drink for the road. Luckily I posted here and others helped me see this wasn't the right attitude. So yeah your right it does undermine soberity to alcoholism to follow that narrative and dangerous too. And like yourself I would prob be in prison, dead or could cause harm to someone in blackout. I know all this too well as my father went to prison when I was 5 for exactly that. Couldn't see past drugs and alcohol, he served 23 years came out still an addict and is straight back there after 6 months. I'm not him, but I know where it leads.

This obsession just feels so similar to alcohol addiction, I know I can do this if I really give it my all. It's just so much more sneaky because it's less chaotic and obvious than alcoholism is. The money iv spent on it this month is sickening, and I'm at a point where I'm not getting any satisfaction from it.

It would be so amazing to start the new year completely sober 100% my authentic self. I've not given her a chance yet.

Well done on 2 days

​​​​​

FreeOwl

yep... authentic self really needs to be free of the mind-clouding of addiction.

Yeah - money blown on weed. Holy cow. Also; money I don't HAVE. Haven't had a paycheck since March.

It IS more sneaky... but it's actually not. It's exactly AS sneaky. Which is precisely why it's telling you it's MORE sneaky.

See.... our addictive self is potent. If it sees us edging in the direction of tossing our sobriety out the window, well it gets pretty excited.

I have a theory that my behavior with cannabis is actually really my alcoholism at play. It figures it can hide behind the smokescreen of cannabis. It knows damn well that I'm able to rationalize for myself that 'weed isn't as bad' or that 'at least I'm still sober'...... and it also knows that if it works on my long enough and gets me far gone enough down the road of addiction with my weed-fueled mindshift.... then one day, I'll go ahead and drink again. I think my deepest addiction is really alcohol. I quit cigarettes. I quit cocaine even - without any real catastrophe or major effort.

Alcohol wants me back. My Alcoholic wants alcohol back.... so it's chipping away at me with something I chose to let in, innocuously.

But it's a damn demon.

DEMON BEGONE.

I have cherished most my sober and clear-headed years.

I have been most OK with myself, my most present for others, my best self - when I didn't drink or use drugs not prescribed to me (I do take an anti-depressant that was quite helpful in addressing ongoing depression issues during sobriety).

Anyway.... I believe in you.

You've shared enough that I'm confident in reflecting back to you that I'm SURE you'll be happier, better off, more present and feeling much better about yourself as you get to know her as you choose to ditch the cannabis too.

I'm glad you're on board!

Lpg

[QUOTE=FreeOwl;7561572 .
See.... our addictive self is potent. If it sees us edging in the direction of tossing our sobriety out the window, well it gets pretty excited.

I have a theory that my behavior with cannabis is actually really my alcoholism at play. It figures it can hide behind the smokescreen of cannabis. It knows damn well that I'm able to rationalize for myself that 'weed isn't as bad' or that 'at least I'm still sober'...... and it also knows that if it works on my long enough and gets me far gone enough down the road of addiction with my weed-fueled mindshift.... then one day, I'll go ahead and drink again. I think my deepest addiction is really alcohol. I quit cigarettes. I quit cocaine even - without any real catastrophe or major effort.

Alcohol wants me back. My Alcoholic wants alcohol back.... so it's chipping away at me with something I chose to let in, innocuously[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting view point, alcohol has definitely been my biggest problems overall but never looked at using cannabis this way. I know that I'm keeping my AV alive by still using something I don't have much control over once I start. I do still struggle sometimes with old thoughts creeping back in about drinking, so I roll up instead to ease it. I guess if I look back at my time I spent at AA, I'm looking for a gentler softer way.

Its funny we know deep down inside ourselfs all the answers to our own problems, it's just having the courage to say them aloud and make them real.

This pandemic has been rough, sorry to hear you haven't had a paycheck since March I'm assuming that is related. I have used the anxiety around the pandemic to smoke nightly again. I had previously managed to keep it to a weekend but if I'm being honest that was only to keep my partner sweet, and it was pretty painful waiting for Friday to come around.

Glad I found this thread thank you, it's gave me some real things to think about and I came across it at just the right time.

FreeOwl

yes, my employment woes stem from having launched a company in February. I'm working full time, but the business has struggled due to the pandemic, so I'm unable to pay myself.

Like you, for a long time I was just using marijuana as a 'gentler, softer way' and keeping it in check. But... like you, after a while, I was also only moderating because of appearances. Then, after a while, I stopped moderating and instead moderated others' awareness of how much I was using. Then came the using it many times a day. Then came the not really ever feeling 'high' regardless how much I used - but also not feeling 'right' without it.

I think that process happened with remarkable swiftness now that I look back on it. My personal history with marijuana is tied up so closely with alcohol, that for me it makes a lot of sense that my addicted brain would not only begin to follow that same pattern with it, but also that I could ultimately and very easily be just a short 'decision' away from a bottle of vodka.

Waking now to Day three after having had fitful, sweaty sleep.... with the ongoing 'mystery rattle and wheeze' deep in my lungs that I've been speculating is cancer or COPD.... I need only look as far as my own body to see the obviousness of how Marijuana has negatively impacted me.

Lpg

Have you visited the doc for your lungs? I can imagine that must be a worry.

End of day 2 here and I'm starting to feel abit shaky, been running around alot today though so time to sit and relax before bed. It's like my body speeds up the more time that passes without smoking.
Normally I'd be out smoking by now but still keeping to my plan not to tonight. I still haven't wrapped any Christmas presents but allowing myself some time to rest I still have tomorrow lol.

We got this

FreeOwl

Just today, actually!! Next step is a consult with a pulmonologist, chest x-rays, and some pulmonary tests. Also have a referral to a psychologist for a more thorough evaluation of just what combination of depression, anxiety and ADD I might be dealing with and some potential adjustments to meds.... also spending a lot of time just trying to figure out what aspects of my own life, choices, commitments and focus are perpetuating circumstances that just are not aligned with who I am and my particular neurological-psychological traits. For example: is ADD really a 'disorder' - or is it a profile of neurological and psychological traits that are simply not aligned to some of the choices I've built my life upon? So, a lot of reflection on what's next and what things I may want to change to help lessen the stress of my life by designing a more fitting life for ME.

Anyway - I came away from the meeting with the doc at least somewhat optimistic that what I'm dealing with is more related to a combination of anxiety, stress, poor diet, lack of exercise, a tremendously difficult year and smoking a ton of weed than anything too serious. That said, these tests will help rule out more serious conditions.... I hope.

FreeOwl

oh and hey.... WAY TO GO ON DAY 2!!!! I'm proud of you.

keep it up.

Lpg

That's great freeowl I'm glad you got to see the doctor today and left with some clarity on everything and further referrals, I hope you get good outcome/results for both lung issues and anxiety/ADD & depression.
I suffer alot with anxiety too, alot better than I used to be when I was drinking but still gets a hold of me some days. Its a drainer for sure.

Practising some good sleep hygiene tonight, meditation chamomile tea & lavander spray. Not tired at all this is when I start to get abit irritable worrying how much sleep I'm going to have.

Lpg

Thank you same to you!! I've stuck by SR pretty much all day today reading. I really wanna make this work.

FreeOwl

Nice.

I know that for me, keeping my head and my attention FIRMLY in recovery is crucial, especially in the early days. Good news is that in my experience, after about two weeks I find that cannabis is a lot less powerful with regard to cravings and psychological tendency to cave in and go back to. The first week or two though, can be really easy to slide right back to it.

Lpg

Yeah I seem to make it two weeks before I either forget the reasons why I'm doing it or I manage to talk myself round. Maybe I should make a list like you did and keep it with me at hand.

Waking up on day 3, got to sleep without any trouble last night I'm surprised(and happy) at that. Nervous about Christmas Dinner tomorrow and being around my family drinking, I know if it is stressful I will be tempted when I get home. It won't solve anything for me, I must remember that.

FreeOwl

Waking up on day 4 no cannabis and last night was fitful with strange dreams. Feel a little nauseated this morning with a headache. Last night I had some tightness in my throat, felt a bit edgy. I can feel the physical effects for sure. Big time cold sweats in the night. Trouble falling asleep. But, I know that's my body starting to adjust to falling levels of THC in my system. And perhaps some of it is a return to my present, to my Self, to face my emotions, to my 'normal' balance (imbalance) of brain chemistry...... but I welcome that because it's also a sign I'm drawing closer to my Self, I'm becoming more in tune with my true emotions and moving closer to the presence it takes to begin moving to address my emotions properly, in healthy ways.

I recall my early years of sobriety. For the first 6+ years I wasn't using cannabis or drinking, or any other drug apart from caffeine (and my antidepressant after about year 3). In those early years, Christmas with the family, New Years, other traditional occasions that were woven through with alcohol and drugs for me in my past and for friends and family; it was tricky. But OH!! How wonderful it felt to arrive back home after a gathering and to lay my sober head on the pillow and to say goodnight to my wife with loving clarity and to wake the next morning feeling alive and capable and not vomiting or heading straight to a bong for a 'wake and bake'.

No.... it's not easy.

But my god... my stars... my very soul.... it is worth it.

Keep at it. You can do this. We're in it together.

BornSurvivor

Great post buddy. Keep at it! One day at a time!

Aellyce

4 days is fantastic Cannabis/THC withdrawal is definitely a thing. It may not be as severe as with alcohol, but many people have some discomfort with it. Soon you may return to more peaceful rest and waking though, keep on going!